T1B

Literally.

Driving home from the bar, in the cold rain after another shitty loss ending a shitty season I thought a lot about the State of Michigan Football. I live in Ann Arbor, I love this town, I never plan on leaving. Its a town that is constantly rated in the top tier of cities nationwide in terms of safety, opprotunity and quality of life.

Its a town that lives and dies with Michigan football. This season has left my beloved town heart broken. Expectations were high and game after game we were let down.

This off season is key to the future of Michigan football. Will we make the right choices and make a run at a MNC in the next 3 years or will we collapse into mediocrity that teams like Nebraska, Notre Dame and Penn State all fell into?

I've been a supporter of Carr for years, but I think now for the first time, that its time for a change. Maybe its the beer talking, maybe its the bullshit loss I just witnessed, but this team lacks the heart, desire and passion that good coaching brings.

While I don't want to join the Fire Lloyd bandwagon, I do think that it might be time for him to retire.


Here's to next year,

Go Blue.

It's obvious that you haven't had enough beer for it to be the beer talking, you had good spelling and grammar.

Sincerely, Skull

88 wrote:I half-assed watched the game while playing poker.

I did the exact same thing. I had some family over and we were playing cards and I put the game on in the background. It did nothing for me. Michigan loss, I got nothing out of it. If Michigan won 56-0, I wouldn't be walking around with my chest puffed out. It's the friggin' Alamo Bowl. I did hear during the part of the broadcast I saw that Carr is in favor of a playoff...that's cool, I guess.

Can ESPN blow that final play out of proportion more than they have? I didn't watch any of the game beyond the second quarter because I had a long day and I barely made it through our family poker game. I wake up and flip on ESPNEWS and they made it out like one of the players burst in flames or something. You see a weird play like that at the end of most games and other than Cal-Stanford, nothing happens from it. Tirico and Herbstreit acted like the Hindenburg exploded or something when Ecker had the ball and Nebraska players were on the field. It's a meaningless game and I think ESPN is just trying to milk this as much as they can but Michigan didn't score...big deal. Just another example of ESPN making a story out of nothing.

BlindRef wrote:Driving home from the bar, in the cold rain after another shitty loss ending a shitty season I thought a lot about the State of Michigan Football.

...

Maybe its the beer talking, maybe its the bullshit loss I just witnessed, but this team lacks the heart, desire and passion that good coaching brings.

:veryshocked:

Shoalzie wrote: Can ESPN blow that final play out of proportion more than they have? I didn't watch any of the game beyond the second quarter because I had a long day and I barely made it through our family poker game. I wake up and flip on ESPNEWS and they made it out like one of the players burst in flames or something. You see a weird play like that at the end of most games and other than Cal-Stanford, nothing happens from it. Tirico and Herbstreit acted like the Hindenburg exploded or something when Ecker had the ball and Nebraska players were on the field. It's a meaningless game and I think ESPN is just trying to milk this as much as they can but Michigan didn't score...big deal. Just another example of ESPN making a story out of nothing.

Here, here. I missed the 4th Quarter cause I went out and I didnt bother checking the score when I got home. This morning I had on ESPNews on XM and you would of thought it was the Music City Miracle. Fucker didnt even score. Got me all excited this morning on the way to work, so I yelled a ,"Ohh, Fuuuuck you." I listened to Fox Sports the rest of the way into work. ESPN is getting bad. The constant self promotion is getting out of hand. It has been for years.


Ohh, has USC beaten the '85 Bears yet? Have Corso and the gang got that far?

Couldn't disagree more on the final play. Here's the thing, that play did not happen in a vacuum. It was a near-miracle play that ended a game that was wild from start to finish. There were 5 kabillion questionable calls, 6 kabillion sacks, repeated swings of momentum, and a late 4th quarter comeback. All of those things built the drama to a point where the last play seemed like a miracle in the making. Anybody who watched the entire game was just as fired up over that play as ESPN.

Great, great game.

" Driving home from the bar" +"raining" = Fooooooooooolish.

Shoalzie wrote:

88 wrote:I half-assed watched the game while playing poker.

I did the exact same thing. I had some family over and we were playing cards and I put the game on in the background. It did nothing for me. Michigan loss, I got nothing out of it. If Michigan won 56-0, I wouldn't be walking around with my chest puffed out. It's the friggin' Alamo Bowl. I did hear during the part of the broadcast I saw that Carr is in favor of a playoff...that's cool, I guess.

Can ESPN blow that final play out of proportion more than they have? I didn't watch any of the game beyond the second quarter because I had a long day and I barely made it through our family poker game. I wake up and flip on ESPNEWS and they made it out like one of the players burst in flames or something. You see a weird play like that at the end of most games and other than Cal-Stanford, nothing happens from it. Tirico and Herbstreit acted like the Hindenburg exploded or something when Ecker had the ball and Nebraska players were on the field. It's a meaningless game and I think ESPN is just trying to milk this as much as they can but Michigan didn't score...big deal. Just another example of ESPN making a story out of nothing.

Lloyd came out a couple weeks ago and said he was in favor of a 16 team playoff. Yeah, how coincidental - Carr doesn't have his team in a BCS game and he's suddenly in favor of a playoff. Guess what, Llloyd? If there was a 16 team playoff, your guys wouldn't even be in it!

I'm not a Carr fan, but I do think he's been good for UM. His teams are not ever easily defeated.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:Lloyd came out a couple weeks ago and said he was in favor of a 16 team playoff. Yeah, how coincidental - Carr doesn't have his team in a BCS game and he's suddenly in favor of a playoff. Guess what, Llloyd? If there was a 16 team playoff, your guys wouldn't even be in it!

I'd be in favor of it even if Michigan wouldn't have been worthy...I'm fully aware of that fact. I'm just tired of seeing these mediocre teams like Michigan and Nebraska last night get a "reward". After watching this season of Michigan football, they don't deserve to be rewarded. You know this was a throw away games if the NCAA put a small conference officiating team for a game between two storied programs from major conferences.

I agree with Stoopsy. That final play was absolutely worth the hype. I watched that entire game..... it was the single worst officiated game I've ever seen (which I found very, very entertaining).

Nevertheless, after watching Michigan piss it away.... then have a chance to win it on a play that was very close to going down as perhaps the craziest play in the history of college football.... as players, fans, cameramen, reporters, etc. stormed the field.... I don't think ESPN was blowing that out of proportion at all.

If Michigan's TE would've pitched it to Breaston and threw a block or two..... or if Breaston would've sped up and actually BLOCKED somebody ahead of the TE..... Michigan absolutely scores on that play. The problem would've been that the referees were leaving the field and heading up the tunnel. There may have been a riot.

Shoalzie wrote:I'd be in favor of it even if Michigan wouldn't have been worthy...

Of course. It was just the timing of his statement, and the situation his team was in, that made his comment humorous.

I'm just tired of seeing these mediocre teams like Michigan and Nebraska last night get a "reward". After watching this season of Michigan football, they don't deserve to be rewarded. You know this was a throw away games if the NCAA put a small conference officiating team for a game between two storied programs from major conferences.

The game is "rewarding" depending only on your circumstance. NU has been terrible of recent, so getting to the Alamo Bowl (which is a bowl that at least has some history, and wasn't manufactured overnight) I'm sure was an accomplishment to them. It may not be to you, but you're not the one going to through the pre-season two a days, the practices, going to class, and playing in the games, so it's easy for you to say it doesn't mean anything.

Shoalzie wrote:Can ESPN blow that final play out of proportion more than they have?

Do you have anything positive to say about CFB? Anything?
You choose not to watch any bowl game other than the BCS championship game 'cuz the others 'don't matter'. Whatever.
If that's the case, then why make any sort of comment on a game that you supposedly don't care about or doesn't matter. You even said, you watched very little of the game... so don't comment on a final play that deserves the hype it's getting. If you'da watched the game, you might have a clue as to why.

I'll be looking for your posts after Jan 4th. Until then, they don't matter, eh?

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:

Shoalzie wrote:I'd be in favor of it even if Michigan wouldn't have been worthy...

Of course. It was just the timing of his statement, and the situation his team was in, that made his comment humorous.

I agree...the timing is curious. He was always all about making the Rose Bowl and winning the Big Ten and all. Didn't think he'd join the "dark side".

I'm just tired of seeing these mediocre teams like Michigan and Nebraska last night get a "reward". After watching this season of Michigan football, they don't deserve to be rewarded. You know this was a throw away games if the NCAA put a small conference officiating team for a game between two storied programs from major conferences.

The game is "rewarding" depending only on your circumstance. NU has been terrible of recent, so getting to the Alamo Bowl (which is a bowl that at least has some history, and wasn't manufactured overnight) I'm sure was an accomplishment to them. It may not be to you, but you're not the one going to through the pre-season two a days, the practices, going to class, and playing in the games, so it's easy for you to say it doesn't mean anything.

I'm sure the players enjoy traveling and getting on TV...especially from the small schools like Arkansas State. Just from a fan standpoint though, I'd brag about winning a national title, not about winning the Alamo Bowl. As a StateFan, would you be satisfied with just making a bowl or do you want them to contend for the conference title? To me, winning a non-championship bowl game is such an empty accomplishment. A lot of these guys are going onto bigger and better things in the NFL but for fans, I'd like to think we're in it to win it...not to settle for consolation games...which all of these games are no matter how you spin it.

Just from a fan standpoint though, I'd brag about winning a national title, not about winning the Alamo Bowl.

I wouldn't brag about it either, but if the options were: A) root for my team to win the Alamo Bowl or B) not care at all, I'd just option A every time.

As a StateFan, would you be satisfied with just making a bowl or do you want them to contend for the conference title?

I'd want them to contend for the Big Ten title, but if they didn't win it, and made it to some "worthless" bowl game, I wouldn't be neutral about it. I'd want State to win in every single game they play, regardless of the implications of said game. I try not to get too deep, emotional and philosophical about it. If they're playing another team, I want them to win every time.

To me, winning a non-championship bowl game is such an empty accomplishment. A lot of these guys are going onto bigger and better things in the NFL but for fans, I'd like to think we're in it to win it...not to settle for consolation games...which all of these games are no matter how you spin it.

You are in it to win it, but you also have to be realistic. There are 119 teams in d1 college football. You're not going to win the NC every year. You're not going to compete for the NC every year. That is a virtual impossibility. Dominance is cyclical, and winning a title means you've accomplished a lot, but not winning one doesn't make you a failure.

Amen.

With the talent Ohio State had last year.... we (coaches, players, fans, etc.) were all disappointed to be playing in the Alamo Bowl. However, we respected our opponent, traveled well, played hard, and kicked the shit out of Oklahoma State... thoroughly dominating them in every aspect of the game.

Granted, the disparity in talent last night was not nearly as great as it was in last year's Alamo Bowl..... but the Nebraska players and the Husker Nation in general clearly wanted it more. It turned into a Nebraska home game, and the body language of the coaches and players told the story -- Nebraska would be satisfied with nothing less than a victory.

Still, I didn't think Michigan played terribly. They got screwed on several key calls and still almost pulled off a miracle on the last play... against a fired up Nebraska team that finished the season as a totally different football team than what they were in September/October.

Bottom line -- as a college football fan, I could've definitely done mucn, much worse had I spent those four hours of my life doing something else. Very entertaining football game.

Shoalzie wrote:Just from a fan standpoint though, I'd brag about winning a national title, not about winning the Alamo Bowl.... To me, winning a non-championship bowl game is such an empty accomplishment.

I see. So then you care about UofM in 1997, '48, and some other year or two about the time LLLLLoyd was perfecting the art of whining by kicking his feet and cooing for more breast milk.

See you back on the boards in about... oh... 50 years seeing as how that's about the time between UofM's MNC's.

You see, what you don't understand is that to the rest of the fans here, you make no sense 'cuz your line of thinking is so far out of the box from the typical fan's. Root for your damned team maybe, eh?

Ken wrote:Do you have anything positive to say about CFB? Anything?

I'm looking forward to watching USC-Texas...does that work for you?

did you guys hear? After beating an avg Michigan team, Nebraska football is back.






No seriously, Nebraska is back!







Seriously

Ken, that's what I don't understand about Shoalzie. UofM has 1/2 a title to their claim since he's been alive, and yet he has the expecation of a title every season, or else the season is a failure. Exactly what the fuck has Michigan done in the last 50 years to make Shoalzie such an arrogant fan? In the modern era, Michigan isn't even in the same tier as an Oklahoma, a Miami or USC. Michigan's "reputation" has always led their fans to believe they're bigger than what they actually are.

That, and the fact that I can't fathom not caring about my team, even if in a lower tier bowl, Mgo. Shit, when PSU was licking the undersoles of NW, Illinois, and the rest of the B10, I still watched every freakin' game.

Maybe it is arrogance. I don't know. Shoalzie should pack up and take the bus outta the forum if he can't get hyped for some damned fuckin' good bowl games.

Yeah, it's arrogance.

Adelpiero wrote:did you guys hear? After beating an avg Michigan team, Nebraska football is back.






No seriously, Nebraska is back!







Seriously

A Neb thread and Adel is hating, what a freaking shock. :twisted:

We aren't back, back = top10, but we did make a step forward, I'll take it.

Nebraska isn't back or on their way back (with a coach like Callahan).

They beat a "I could care less" Michigan team. And Michigan, you were just embarassing. If anyone watched any of the DII playoffs, that is how a team should play a post-season game. UM was a fine example of "0" heart and they should be ashamed. Way to give up.

And this bullshit about bad calls (there were some) or that this game isn't a big deal is nothing but excuses. This game should not have ever been close.

what's all this talk about heart? any time a team loses they "didn't have heart." they fucking lost. i didn't see too many players walking an out pattern, or moving aside so some nu lineman was given a free go at henne. and carr looked rather non-chalant as he burned those two timeouts to argue with the officials. did you see that play where henne scored to make it 28-17, and the entire um sideline just shrugged their shoulders? or the first 50 minutes of the game how the um pass rush treated zac taylor like it was a flag football game?

just b/c umich scored less points than nebraska doesn't mean they didn't care.

Ken wrote:Maybe it is arrogance. I don't know. Shoalzie should pack up and take the bus outta the forum if he can't get hyped for some damned fuckin' good bowl games.

An arrogant MichiganFan? I couldn't possibly be that...

You've got to go into every season thinking your team has a chance...especially if it's Michigan or Ohio State or USC or whoever. Why even follow your team if you don't have expectations for them? I don't think they'll go unbeaten every year but until they lose a game in a season, the hope is there for a magical season. In today's college football, all it comes down to is running the table in the regular season to play in a final game until they institute a playoff.

I just don't understand what makes me a bad fan for not liking bowl games. I've made it clear on numerous occasions that I dislike the bowl system and I crave a championship tournament in its place. I watch every regular season game and if Michigan isn't in the hunt in the end, I call it a season and wait for next year. The Alamo Bowl and the matchup with Nebraska means nothing to me. Win or lose, they still had a disappointing season.

I apologize for holding my team to a higher standard but I don't see how that makes me a bad fan. Should I go into a season and hope for 8-3 and a New Year's bowl like it's a great accomplishment? No! You want to win it all like I want any of my pro teams to win it all. It doesn't mean they will but you hope they do. I don't like the bowl games for the fact they are pointless consolation games for underachieving teams. The only game that matters over the next few days is USC-Texas. You play out a season to determine a single national champion...not 25 or 26 bowl game winners.

What aren't you understanding abot my posts? I don't give a squirrel's balls if you weren't beforehand, but if you can't get amped up midway through a helluva game involving your home team, mid-tier bowl or not, you may as well flatline it and check out for the rest of the life.

No effing shit we all want or expect our teams to vie for the MNC before the season starts. As far as I can tell, that's the only way in which you have any similarity to the rest of us here. Hell, do me a favor and don't post about another bowl game if you couldn't possibly care any less about 'em.

Lemme guess... when UofM was looooong ago out of the MNC running, you pulled up a chair next to Mabel at the local bingo table at church during the OSU-UM game?

MClub wrote:what's all this talk about heart? any time a team loses they "didn't have heart." they fucking lost. i didn't see too many players walking an out pattern, or moving aside so some nu lineman was given a free go at henne. and carr looked rather non-chalant as he burned those two timeouts to argue with the officials. did you see that play where henne scored to make it 28-17, and the entire um sideline just shrugged their shoulders? or the first 50 minutes of the game how the um pass rush treated zac taylor like it was a flag football game?

just b/c umich scored less points than nebraska doesn't mean they didn't care.

Oh, so you describe heart as 50 out of 60 minutes? Now I know you don't really feel that way but I think "heart" is shown for 60 minutes. And yes, Lloyd Carr put up a few good fights cause he was getting screwed. However, it should have never come down to a few bad calls and an attmpted Cal-Stanford ending. The UM team that beat PSU was not the team that showed up on the 28th.

it's humourous how michigan fans are derided for unreasonable expectations and unfounded arrogance, but lose a game and it's everyone else making excuses for the loss. lack of heart is a pretty weak explanation for why they scored less points than nebraska. "50 out of 60" goes under the heading shite coaching, not heart.

the game never would've have come down to a few shit calls and a bunch of laterals had michigan been a better team. unfortunately for umich fans, good teams don't lose five games. we aren't good, meaning the only way you can describe the penn state game is as an upset. perhaps you should take them to task for their heart.

As I've done, at least the coaching staff. They didn't have the wherewithall to kick AWAY from Breaston, and the defensive set on the final drive for UM can only be described as cowardly. PSU's staff sat back and watched Henne march down the field.

i wouldn't call kicking the ball to breaston a lack of heart; i'd call it a stoopid fucking decision.

i'm not trying to say that the better team always wins games, b/c that's too easy of an excuse. there's always something to point to. you can point to a 12.5 point underdog as "better" b/c the better team would obviously have the foresight to train its managers on how to properly wash underwear, b/c it was obviously the scratchy underpants that took the players' minds off the game. or you can dismiss any claims of a lucky win as nonsense b/c clearly the superior team would know better than to blow all of its timeouts so early in a half. etc. i don't know if michigan is better than nebraska or if nebraska's better than michigan, but they played a game, and nebraska won. claiming michigan lost b/c of a lack of heart is simply a different way of saying they would've won if they weren't playing around, and ergo, yr more arrogant than even a michigan fan such as myself.

We are ordinary.

We've been running the same 10 plays for 15 years or so and we've got to be easy to scout.

We play too passively with a lead (always have) this has finally been exposed as never before and should open some eyes.

We always leave too many points on the field. Missed fg's, to's, and pussified play-calling in the red zone. We need someone with testicles calling the plays.

There's more but I won't bore y'all with it. Enjoy the meaningful games the rest of the way.


Congrats Nebraska.

WolverineSteve wrote:Enjoy the meaningful games the rest of the way.

No thanks, I'll pass.

sin,
shoalzie

I don't mean to rip on my own here, but I bet Shoalzie wasn't a wings fan until the mid 90's either.


Dude, you and I are never going to agree on this.

In Shoalzie's defense I think his age dictates that the Wings have been good most of his life.

And I think he's still a Tiger fan and their relevence ceased in the late 80's.

Point being that the expectations for winning programs UM/Wings are higher to where they should be among the elite year in and out. I can understand his dissapointment, but I still get up for all UM games...especially the bowls.

What I get from this thread.

Blindref, MClub and WolverineSteve are as classy as the team they represent (this is not news, just an update.)

Shoalzie, (not to say your not a first rate guy) but if all you care about is the NC game, why do you open threads in this forum that are unrelated to UT and USC? And criticize those that love the game for what it is? I can't get enough, I've seen some or all of the bowl games so far this season and I'm hungry for more.

I guess college football bowl fans should just follow the NHL in December and early January....hey wait, that woudn't have worked out to well last year, would it?

Cornhusker wrote: Blindref, MClub and WolverineSteve are as classy as the team they represent (this is not news, just an update.)

This is just about the best slob job I have ever read. Props to you husker.

Sky wrote:

Cornhusker wrote: Blindref, MClub and WolverineSteve are as classy as the team they represent (this is not news, just an update.)

This is just about the best slob job I have ever read. Props to you husker.

I concur w/'husker's take.
WTF could you possibly have wrong with MClub, Wolverine, and blindref?

WolverineSteve wrote:In Shoalzie's defense I think his age dictates that the Wings have been good most of his life.

And I think he's still a Tiger fan and their relevence ceased in the late 80's.

Point being that the expectations for winning programs UM/Wings are higher to where they should be among the elite year in and out. I can understand his dissapointment, but I still get up for all UM games...especially the bowls.

You're right to account my age into my opinion...I can respect you for seeing that.

I got into hockey later than I got into the other sports. I was a LionFan and TigerFan first...probably when I was kindergarten or first grade. I was way too young to know about '84 and even '87...I was only 6 at the time. The Lions are always going to be my team, for better or worse. I started watching basketball from seeing the Bad Boys on CBS during the Lakers/Bulls/Blazers years. The Wings, I got into during the Bryan Murray era. I don't really remember watching them with Demers as the coach.

As for Michigan football, my earliest memories were watching Michael Taylor, Tony Boles, Tripp Welbourne and Leroy Hoard. I can remember having a little rivalry in elementary school with a couple kids that liked Notre Dame, State, and Indiana. I don't know the exact year I started watching them and watching college football but I've been a huge fan ever since. Initially, I watched bowl games without any second thought. My turnaround on the matter started with all of the contraversy and split national titles occuring. I always thought there should've been a playoff. For anyone who thinks I'm out to lunch with my take on all bowls being irrelevant, so be it...but at least understand where I'm coming from. That opinion shouldn't discredit me as being a good fan...it just makes me an opinionated fan that doesn't like the status quo. If bowls seized to exist after this year to make way for a playoff, I wouldn't miss them...no matter what traditionalists say. There's no one way to be a college football fan. I love my team and I want to see them win every game...I just have a different view on the postseason system. I want to see college football's "flaws" fixed.

Cornhusker wrote:And criticize those that love the game for what it is? I can't get enough, I've seen some or all of the bowl games so far this season and I'm hungry for more.

Who have I criticized for liking bowl games? I haven't picked out an individual and ripped them. I've repeatedly stated my opinion on the BCS and bowl games...that's it. I've tried to defend my view but you guys that are traditionalists, I don't expect you to agree and I don't expect anyone to convert to my side. Don't turn around and make me out like I'm a bad fan because I don't see relevance of the Heritage Bowl or the Alamo Bowl or the Gator Bowl...it's just an opinion. If you like the bowl games, I'm not stopping you from watching them. I'm not trying to be a grinch and steal the games away from everyone...I just want to see games with true meaning played during this time. If Penn State-Florida State and Notre Dame-Ohio State were elimination games where the winners would advance...I'm all for it. Instead, they win and there's nothing else to it.

carr is bitching because the aura of scu-m football is long gone and they can't get a new year's day bowl game on name alone anymore.