T1B

"We are fully capable today of defeating any North Korean aggression and we will maintain that capacity," General Peter Pace said.

The chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff said figuring out the secretive communist state's military policy was a difficult challenge.

"Ambassador John Negroponte, director of national intelligence, told a congressional hearing the North's claims to have nuclear weapons were "probably true".

"We do not know the conditions under which North Korea would be willing to fully relinquish itsnuclear weapons and its programs," he said. "

Grave digger of Central America says what?

What a sorry condition your country is in, America.

Peter Pace can fuck off. The Navy has already said it hasn't sufficient lift to attack. Google OPLAN5027 - and look up The Atlantic (march 2005) issue on General Thomas McInerneys war scenarios with the DPRK. The entire attack hinges on Kim Jong Il not spotting a fleet steaming across the Pacific.

Fucking joke!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Finally, some intelligence in the Spin Zone today.

KJI will throw the American dogs back across the Pacific like Pulgasari stomped the fuck out
of anti-peasant landlord tyrants.



WAR ~ The People's Monster.

RACK Pulgasari!

Rent the movie - the box-notes say Kim Jong Il kidnapped the entire original creative team from Godzilla and forced them at gunpoint to make the film.

He did.

But truly, what is the price one must pay to convey their artistic message?

Do not the Americans "kidnap" young people from all over the country and the world
and exploit them in the Hollywood mind-control model?

I know of one tard....errrrr....victim, who was kidnapped and forced to labour in show business, never being allowed to have a speaking role.
He was only audible in a single instance when he was forced to run screaming, in a
depiction of a gay gang rape, clad only in his underpants, with his disgusting man-boobs
flapping in the Southern California breeze.

What price, Capitalism?

You can have my Pulgasari figurines when you pry them from my cold, dead fingers.

This thread=:

wow mvscal You really buy into all the party line propaganda, don't you?

Has nothing to do with Phibes. You just buy the

"We are fully capable today of defeating any North Korean aggression and we will maintain that capacity," General Peter Pace said.

On the face of it. Despite the fact the commander of the Iraq war is saying that the Us forces are "stretched"

Unless the dude is talking about dropping bombs, we ain't got shit to put on the ground. Hell, we didn't have enough in iraq to start with.

30,000 us troops? That isn't shit. NK has 1.2 million solidiers, the fifth largest Army in the world. 70% of them are stationed on the border between N and S Korea.

And we're going to throw 30,000 Us troops up against that? Give me a break.

KIJ tosses at 20% of their GNP into the military.

All that would result from another Korean Conflict is a mini vietnam, unless Russia and /or China got pissed off enough to step in. You think they want us sitting on their doorstep?

unless of course china or russia stepped in. I seriously doubt they want a war that could go nuclear ( we don't know exactly what NK has in that regard, but they do have weapons grade plutomium) so close to home.

And you are assuming a lot. Where in that quote from Pace does he say anything about SK?

mvscal wrote:

Mister Bushice wrote:unless of course china or russia stepped in.... And you are assuming a lot.

Speaking of assuming a lot...

Why either country would support North Korean aggression against the South with ground troops is a complete mystery and not a particularly compelling one since they would be fed straight into the same meat grinder with similar lack of result.

When has russia or China ever responded logically to a perceived worldwide threat? If We went not North Korea, it wouldn't be so much about them supporting Nk as it would protecting their own interests. Having a weaker ( in a military sense) neighbor to their south make sa lot more sense than allowing for the possibility of a stronger one taking over and sharing a border.

Where in that quote from Pace does he say anything about SK?

Does he have to? Who the fuck do you think he's talking about?

OK I'll concede that point, but the military strength issue is moot if NK brings nukes into play.

For once I agree with mvscal. Fuck North Korea. They need us (and the rest of the west) a lot more than we need them (which is not at all). If they choose to let its people starve and remain a pariah state then so be it. We don't need to do anything unless they get aggressive...then we open a big old can of whoop-ass on them and game over.

Mister Bushice wrote:OK I'll concede that point, but the military strength issue is moot if NK brings nukes into play.

I think it's pretty well established at this point that I tend to abhor war and violence...BUT

I'm quite confident that the Pentagon is well aware of every site where NK has any nukes stored (which is my idea of good modern warfare -- keep to your own borders and know your enemy). And if the door of any silos or other nuke sites so much as open one freaking inch, I seriously doubt that an archaic NK nuke would so much as get the engine warmed up before they were treated to a suprise visit from Mr. Cruise Missile.

Same goes for China and their couple-of-dozen nukes. I'm guessing that even the freaking janitors at the Pentagon could point out China's nuke sites on a map.

Go ahead and open those silo doors, SE Asians...and see why your nuclear "threat" is such a joke to the USA. A few conventional bombs would disable either country's nuclear arsenal in a few minutes.

Not an issue at present.

mvscal wrote: Assuming we could get there in a couple minutes which is doubtful.
It only takes about 45 minutes to an hour to prep an ICBM for launch out of a silo.

Last I heard (like anyone here gets the real story...oh wait...I mean like anyone here gets the real story BESIDES MVSCAL...I forgot), China's missiles are stored unarmed (brilliant strategy), and the missiles aren't even fueled.

Once they crack the door open, how long does it take a fighter/bomber or a cruise missile to reach the Chinese silos? This obviously depends on the location of the silos, so is a rhetorical question.

mvscal wrote:
Back up and take another run at it, scooter.

Why? Anyone with half a brain (including the pentagon) knows the the DPRK has no intention of invading the ROK. OPLAN5027 was re-designated as a pre-emptive strike strategy a few years ago - thus, you are in no position to attack as the DPRK is the most complete garrison country in the world. As I said Peter Pace can fuck off, he's blowing smoke for reporters.

Besides, American officials rate ROK troops as 'impossible to get any kind of commitment out of them', and having 'no motivation to make the sacrifice needed when war erupts'.

The entire point is moot.

Mainiac wrote: Fuck North Korea. They need us (and the rest of the west) a lot more than we need them

Wanna bet?

Until the Glorious Leader starts making his own Hennesy cognac, he needs the west more than the west needs him

Mister Bushice wrote: Unless the dude is talking about dropping bombs, we ain't got shit to put on the ground. Hell, we didn't have enough in iraq to start with.

What dude is talking about is the fact that the DPRK is part of a narrow peninsula. As such, we wouldn't even consider any sort of army invasion until long after our destroyers, carriers and missle launching ships had pounded the shit out of them for months.

Try 2002, smart guy:

OPLAN 5027-02

In February 2002 it was reported that the US military was updating OPLAN 5027 in the wake of the September 11 terrorist attacks. This includes a military calculation of the force needed to remove North Korean leader Kim Jung Il.

In mid-2002 a top aide to Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld briefed a concept of operations for striking North Korea's weapons of mass destruction. This case study in the application of the Bush administration's new doctrine of pre-emptive military action envisioned a swift attack, carried out without consulting South Korea, America's ally on the peninsula. Soon after word of the briefing spread, administration officials, including Secretary of State Colin Powell and Adm. Thomas Fargo, commander of US forces in the Pacific, worked to stifle further discussion of the scheme.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... n-5027.htm

Hardly a DPRK source.

EDIT: How the fuck is this supposed to happen without anyone knowing??!!

OCmike wrote:

Mister Bushice wrote: Unless the dude is talking about dropping bombs, we ain't got shit to put on the ground. Hell, we didn't have enough in iraq to start with.

What dude is talking about is the fact that the DPRK is part of a narrow peninsula. As such, we wouldn't even consider any sort of army invasion until long after our destroyers, carriers and missle launching ships had pounded the shit out of them for months.

From where - the sea of Japan? The Yellow Sea? You think China and Russia would be happy about our warships sitting just off their coast launching missles?

mvscal wrote: Where did you get the idea that we would be able to see those doors the second they open and have cruise missiles and aircraft on station in less than the hour it takes to fire one up?

Shit, I forgot -- the Bushies are spending all of our resources spying on me and my fellow Americans, and are spread too thin to monitor an actual threat.

My bad.

You guys really need to begin separating fantasy from reality. the "Nuke em all" mentality will never happen, because if it does we'll all be glass too.

SO get real. "Tough shit for them" won't happen either, not in their backyards.

answer the question - do you honestly think Russia or China would allow that? I don't.

Ay yi yi.

Let me rephrase

You think China and Russia would be happy about our warships sitting just off their coast launching missles?

you know? The ? you said "tough shit for them"?

You don't actually think YOUR posturing will result in it happening?

Try to think about an actual global response to that circumstance, not just your fantasy one.

mvscal wrote:I don't think you have a very clear conception of just how badly the Chinese and Russians forces suck.

Martyred with a pop gun and a water balloon?

mvscal wrote:
I don't think you have a very clear conception of just how badly the Chinese and Russians forces suck.

Therein lies the danger.

They are more apt to go nuke if they find they're getting their asses whooped.

Although, I think the Russians would stomp the shit outta you if you went messing in their
back yard.

Jimmy Medalions wrote:

mvscal wrote:I don't think you have a very clear conception of just how badly the Chinese and Russians forces suck.

Martyred with a pop gun and a water balloon?

Too bad a buttoned-down little technocrat like you never had the balls to enlist.

You chicken-ass little bitch.

mvscal wrote:[
We couldn't do it if we wanted to. We aren't living in the Star Trek universe just yet.

HUH?

WHAAAA?

Oh fuck. Let today go down in the history books as the day I lost faith in both humanity and T1B.

And to think, I actually believed my elected leaders when they told me that they gave mvscal inside info on all things military intelligence.

And fuck, it turns out that they didn't even let him in on FIA, like they have anyone else who actually cracks a newspaper.



P.S.: They had the technology to do that over 10 years ago, before FIA...

wait for it...



wait for it......






waaaaaait for it...








Dumbass.

Mister Bushice wrote:

OCmike wrote:

Mister Bushice wrote: Unless the dude is talking about dropping bombs, we ain't got shit to put on the ground. Hell, we didn't have enough in iraq to start with.

What dude is talking about is the fact that the DPRK is part of a narrow peninsula. As such, we wouldn't even consider any sort of army invasion until long after our destroyers, carriers and missle launching ships had pounded the shit out of them for months.

From where - the sea of Japan? The Yellow Sea? You think China and Russia would be happy about our warships sitting just off their coast launching missles?

how close do you think they have to be?

Martyred wrote:enlist.

And have to stand in line to bang that toothless whore like you did? I'll pass.

You chicken-ass little bitch.

This from a guy that's 5-foot-nothing, with help. Sorry smurf-boy, but keyboards only make you taller when you stand on them.

Yeah, I know it pisses you off when the Pentagon leaves you out of the loop.

titlover wrote:

Mister Bushice wrote:

OCmike wrote: What dude is talking about is the fact that the DPRK is part of a narrow peninsula. As such, we wouldn't even consider any sort of army invasion until long after our destroyers, carriers and missle launching ships had pounded the shit out of them for months.

From where - the sea of Japan? The Yellow Sea? You think China and Russia would be happy about our warships sitting just off their coast launching missles?

how close do you think they have to be?

There aren't a lot of options. I'm pretty sure Japan would be less than thrilled if we were lobbing missles over it to hit NK. That only leaves the Sea of Japan or the yellow (east China) sea. Good luck there.

Do you actually think either country is going to do nothing while our military launches missles in their general direction?

mvscal wrote:We can't put a cruise missile or plane anywhere in the world in less than an hour, dumbfuck.

:world'sbiggestfuckingrolleyes:

Better ease up with that "dumbfuck" label, dumbfuck.

United Fucking Airlines can put a plane in the air in less than an hour...dumbfuck. Pretty fucking sure the United Fucking States Fucking Military can do it too, dumbfuck.

And once the button is pushed, ALL cruise missiles hit their target in an hour or less, since they're range is about the same as what they can travel in an hour...dumbfuck.

mvscal wrote: Sure they can be prepped, briefed and launched in less than an hour, but there's no fucking way in hell they get to a target deep inside China in that time frame.

In one leap, you go from "anywhere in the world" to "deep inside China."


And yet insist on calling others "dumbfuck." Priceless.

And once the button is pushed, ALL cruise missiles hit their target in an hour or less, since they're range is about the same as what they can travel in an hour...dumbfuck.

Wrong again...as usual.

So, the figures you brought to the table are similar to mine, which illustrate my point that ALL cruise missiles hit their target within one hour (give or take, obviously).

Yet in YOUR world, a missile with a range of about 600 miles (give or take) that travels 600 MPH (give or take), doesn't hit within an hour(give or take).

Good luck with calling everyone else a "dumbfuck."

I'd be pissed off and start namecalling if I did that poorly in math class, too.

Dumbfuck.

Which is all completely outside of my point that our national resources would be better spent working on a counterstrike system for China and NK's missiles, rather than spying on Bush's political enemies...and not that fucking stupid (and mathmatcally infeasable, FYI- mvmissedalgebra) "star wars" bullshit, either...one that has a chance of doing something besides making Raytheon/Halliburton richer.

mvscal wrote:

Dr_Phibes wrote:

Besides, American officials rate ROK troops as 'impossible to get any kind of commitment out of them', and having 'no motivation to make the sacrifice needed when war erupts'.

Did KJI tell you that?



Fucking moron.

This comes from the American investigation looking into the killing of the South Korean Parliamentary mission in Rangoon. They examined the idea that South Korean troops were involved and quickly dismissed it. These are staff appreciations and nothing has changed, any notion that ROK men are anything more than numbers on a piece of paper is fucking delusional.

mvscal wrote:

Dr_Phibes wrote:These are staff appreciations

In other words...totally useless.

I'll just have to settle for the appreciations of soldiers who have actually worked with ROK troops.

Remember Phibes, mv is of the opinion that military types are dumbfucks that
don't have an appreciation of combat planning that brave and courageous NeoCon chicken-dick chickenhawks have.

We know this because things are going so smoothly in Iraq.

Well he's entirely wrong, but I'll give credit where it's due - it's a noble socialist sentiment. Even I'm too much of a pragmatist to allow privates and NCOs input into grand strategy.

Mister Bushice wrote: There aren't a lot of options. I'm pretty sure Japan would be less than thrilled if we were lobbing missles over it to hit NK. That only leaves the Sea of Japan or the yellow (east China) sea. Good luck there.

Do you actually think either country is going to do nothing while our military launches missles in their general direction?

Dude, we wouldn't be launching them in the general direction of China or Russia. Our ships would be off the coast of the DPRK and launching the missles and shells at the DPRK.

Are you over thinking this or something? I'm not talking ICBMs launched from subs that are thousands of miles away here, I'm talking about attacks launched from just off the coast.

Additionally, maybe you're not that well-versed in naval weaponry, but our ships carry tomohawk missles which can fly hundreds of miles. Our battleships (before they were scrapped) were armed with 16-inch guns that could fire a shell 300-miles inland. Granted, we don't have anything that big now, but the point is that naval guns have quite a range and aren't just limited to shore targets. On a peninsula like Korea, we can just put our ships off the coast in whichever fucking sea we want and bombard the shit out of 100% of it from the sea.

I don't think the Chinese or the Russians would do shit but whine about our presence there to the UN. And really, what COULD they do? They aren't going to go up against us for nutty ass Kim Jong Il's sake.

what body of water are you talking about? The sea of Japan? The Pacific is about 400 miles away and again, they'd be lobbing shit over Japan. The east china sea is right off the coast of China. You really think they'd do nothing while we waged war in their backyard?