T1B

Posted: **Sat Feb 11, 2006 4:34 am**

7 Black coaches!!

Times they are a changin.

Posted: **Sat Feb 11, 2006 4:55 am**

It was a hire by default. Nobody else wanted the job. I wish Art well,I really do,but he knows how the last stint ended.

Posted: **Sat Feb 11, 2006 4:59 am**

KC Paul 3.0 wrote:http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2326498

Considering all the other CRAP candidates out there (except Mike Martz), they certainly could've done WORSE.

Mike Martz was a crap canidate . As an HC .

He finally got a job , after asking around for interviews .

Davis knew better than to hire that nutcase .

Posted: **Sat Feb 11, 2006 5:00 am**

I think pops summed it up.

poptart wrote:Given a choice between Fassel and Shell, I'd take Shell.

Given a 3rd choice, I'd opt for a regular Sunday tee time.

No hard feelings, Art, 'cuz yeah, man, you were damn close to bein' a contender.

........15 yrs ago.

Posted: **Sat Feb 11, 2006 6:37 am**

Al Davis... You did it again!

At least now they'll be able to keep Moss in check.

What's next? Ron Jaworski taking over the eagles? I think we've seen what ex-players can do as head coachs. The only ex-player who was any good as a coach was Mike Ditka.

Sincerely,
Bart Starr
Forrest Gregg
Mike Tice

Posted: **Sat Feb 11, 2006 8:29 am**

fraudo_biguns wrote:The only ex-player who was any good as a coach was Mike Ditka.

You sure you don't want to put any caveats into that asinine statement, before this turns into yet another pileon?

Posted: **Sat Feb 11, 2006 12:50 pm**

frodo_biguns wrote:Al Davis... You did it again!

At least now they'll be able to keep Moss in check.

What's next? Ron Jaworski taking over the eagles? I think we've seen what ex-players can do as head coachs. The only ex-player who was any good as a coach was Mike Ditka.

Sincerely,
Bart Starr
Forrest Gregg
Mike Tice

Forrest Gregg took the Bungles to a Super Bowl.

Of course they lost.

Of the current lot of head coaches, there are a few ex NFL players coaching at a high level.

Bill Cowher
Herm Edwards
Jeff Fisher
Jack DelRio
Tony Dungy

And the latest NFL player to join the HC ranks, Gary Kubiak, is the guy credited with trunning Jake Plummer into an acceptable NFL QB.

Posted: **Sat Feb 11, 2006 2:12 pm**

This hire brought a warm smile to my face...........for about 5 seconds.

I love Art, think he's a heluva guy.

He did a nice job in his previous Oakland stint, cleaning up Shanahan's mess and taking the team to an AFC title game the next year, only to get the snot kicked out of 'em at Buffalo.

I thought he should have gotten another shot after he was let go by Oakland.
Put up a 56-41 mark, 3 playoff appearances.
Did a good job, overall.
Well hell, he even went 16-16 v AFC West foes. :wink:

All of that said, I'm not really feeling this hire.

While he'll do better than Norv (who wouldn't?), I really see this as not much of a bold move FORWARD, which is what I think this organization needs.

It 'feels' to me like an Al 'comfort' selection.

I would have prefered to see Bobby Petrino end up in Oakland.
He would have brought some energy, some juice, something fresh.

Art isn't a super Xs and Os guy, so the O-coordinator better be verrah solid.

Art will command respect though, and I expect the team to 'shape up' a lot under his watch.
He'll get the o-line playing some ball, count on that.
I think he'll also have Moss and Porter get their shit together as wide-outs, and won't hesitate to get up in their face if they are half-assin' it.

Quarterback...?

Is it gonna be Carrie again...?

Carrie and Art, Jay Schroeder and Art.....what's the big difference.....?

60 yr old Art Shell is our man, huh....?

Give 'em holy hell, Arthur.

Posted: **Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:43 pm**

frodo_biguns wrote:I think we've seen what ex-players can do as head coachs. The only ex-player who was any good as a coach was Mike Ditka.

How bout Tom Landry?

Coaching Highlights:
• First head coach of the Dallas Cowboys (1960-1988)
• Set an NFL record with 20 consecutive winning seasons (1966-1985)
• 1966 NFL Coach of the Year
• 1975 NFC Coach of the Year
• Won 13 NFC East titles
• Won five NFC titles
• Won Super Bowl VI and XII
• Introduced the flex defense
• Developed the 4-3 defense
• Revived the shotgun offense
• Introduced motion offenses
• Popularized situational substitutions
• Inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame (1990)

Oh yeah..and let's reach wayyyyyy back to..umm..last Sunday. Bill Cowher.

Bozo.

Posted: **Sat Feb 11, 2006 7:34 pm**

There is no comparrison to ex-players as coaches! Overall they don't even compare to men like Gibbs, Walsh!

These guys?
Bill Cowher
Herm Edwards
Jeff Fisher
Jack DelRio
Tony Dungy

What have they done? Cowher finally made it! He was on the hot seat for years. All the others... Well How many rings do they have?

Facts win again.

Posted: **Sat Feb 11, 2006 7:50 pm**

Shula, Noll, Landry, Grant, Reeves, .......you could just go on and on, frodo.

MANY of the winningest NFL coaches in history are former players.

I really don't know where your head is at.

Posted: **Sat Feb 11, 2006 8:00 pm**

frodo_biguns wrote: The only ex-player who was any good as a coach was Mike Ditka.

That is what you said...you were'nt making comparisons.

Sucks to be quoted, eh?

Posted: **Sat Feb 11, 2006 9:23 pm**

frodo_biguns wrote:The only ex-player who was any good as a coach was Mike Ditka.

Sincerely,
Bart Starr
Forrest Gregg
Mike Tice

Kinda speechless here. Did I just read that correctly?
Such an egregious, idiotic statement like that is worthy of a banning. Someone mod pull the trigger, please.

Posted: **Sat Feb 11, 2006 9:31 pm**

frodo_biguns wrote:There is no comparrison to ex-players as coaches! Overall they don't even compare to men like Gibbs, Walsh!

These guys?
Bill Cowher
Herm Edwards
Jeff Fisher
Jack DelRio
Tony Dungy

What have they done? Cowher finally made it! He was on the hot seat for years. All the others... Well How many rings do they have?

Facts win again.

I tried to give you a way out. But I guess you just like the feel of plunger too much.

Posted: **Sat Feb 11, 2006 9:46 pm**

poptart wrote: I really don't know where your head is at.

Isn't it obvious?

Posted: **Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:09 am**

Watched a video of the Shell news conference.

Shell spoke, of course, as did Al.

When Arthur was introduced by Davis, he said to Al, "thanks coach."

Ok.......

Interesting point that Al discussed was coaching continuity. He gave the example of Pittsburgh, and it's coaching continuity, and how it paid off this year. There have probably been a few times over the past 15 yrs that the Steeler organization could have legitimately rationalized pulling the plug on Bill Cowher, but they did not. The same might be said of Denver and Mike Shanahan. Things have been rocky, and many Denver fans have called for his head (some in here, who I will respectfully not name haha) .....but, sometimes if you've got a good man leading, you stay the course, get through the tough times, and come out with some spoils in the long run. Al regrets pulling the plug on Art 'prematurely' the last go-'round.

Al talked of Oakland's past coaching continuity, Madden for 10 yrs, then Flores for 9 yrs, then Shanahan for a brief year-and-a-half, then Shell for 5-and-a-half-years.

The, Al said, it was his decision to take the organization in a different direction, and he let Shell go. The result of 'breaking the continuity' and going 'out of the family' has been 5 coaches in 11 seasons.

Al said he regrets the move to let Shell go, which began to peck away at Raider coaching continuity.

At any rate, this is Davis' attempt to go forward by going backwards, so to speak.

Well, Al never has been one to do things in a conventional manner.

I know where he's coming from with this hire.

The Raider organization is unique among sports organizations. Those that follow the team closely are keen to it. It really has been a 'family' more so than nearly any other organization. It is something different to be a Raider. Al wants to re-water those family seeds and let 'em grow again.

Time will tell how it plays out.

As far as our division rivals go, on face, I would take Art over Herm Edwards.
Not sure I would take him over the Rat.
Shottenheimer...?
Call it a push, although that might be a homer judgement there.

Point is that Art will get this team competetive again, I'm pretty sure of that.

Can he do more than that?
Can he go the distance...?

Call me a skeptic.

Go Raiders!

Posted: **Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:42 am**

poptart wrote:Watched a video of the Shell news conference.

Shell spoke, of course, as did Al.

No way.

poptart wrote:When Arthur was introduced by Davis, he said to Al, "thanks coach."

At any rate, this is Davis' attempt to go forward by going backwards, so to speak.

Obviously. How else could he go?

As far as our division rivals go, on face, I would take Art over Herm Edwards.

Point is that Art will get this team competetive again, I'm pretty sure of that.

Only it isn't Art who is coaching.

Sorry pop, I can't help but laugh at Raider Nation's savior being a pseudo-Soloman, with an old, decrepit King Davalice, as coach. I feel for you and RJ, I really do.

Posted: **Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:52 am**

Why do you laugh about my rating Art above Herm Edwards.

Edwards has a losing record as a head coach and is sometimes doing good if he knows what quarter it is.

Good luck.

Posted: **Sun Feb 12, 2006 1:10 am**

poptart wrote:Edwards has a losing record as a head coach ...

He doesn't when he has had healthy personnel, namely his starting QB and RB.

Look, theoretically, the Raiders should improve. I mean, they have nowhere else to go but up, right?

And as a Chiefs fan, I figure I'm due for a loss, oh, about any year now, in Oaktown, or is it LA? Just don't tell me it was that "mastermind" Arthur, who engineered it, unless Alice has suddenly decided to go the way of that botoxed freak in Dallas, and has thrown in a few brain cells in exchange with the sucktion (sp intended).

Posted: **Sun Feb 12, 2006 1:30 am**

At one point in the conference today Al started rattling off names of coaches,....coaches who once were considered hot, coaches who are now considered hot, other coaches, coaches he's had talks with, coaches he's interviewed.....

He brought up Mike Martz, but called him Ray Martz.

Long live Al.

Posted: **Sun Feb 12, 2006 1:50 am**

That was Al's way of telling the world that the guy ain't worth a shit.

:wink:

Posted: **Sun Feb 12, 2006 2:04 am**

poptart wrote:At one point in the conference today Al started rattling off names of coaches,....coaches who once were considered hot, coaches who are now considered hot, other coaches, coaches he's had talks with, coaches he's interviewed.....

He brought up Mike Martz, but called him Ray Martz.

poptart wrote:Long live Al.

You forgot the sarcasm tags on that one, for Paul, among others. :wink:

Posted: **Sun Feb 12, 2006 3:11 am**

BWA!

duhs hire a friggin black coach! No black coach has ever won jack shit.

BWA!

Posted: **Sun Feb 12, 2006 3:34 am**

poptart wrote: It 'feels' to me like an Al 'comfort' selection.

I would have prefered to see Bobby Petrino end up in Oakland.
He would have brought some energy, some juice, something fresh.

Art isn't a super Xs and Os guy, so the O-coordinator better be verrah solid.

Art will command respect though, and I expect the team to 'shape up' a lot under his watch.
He'll get the o-line playing some ball, count on that.

Quarterback...?

Is it gonna be Carrie again...?

Carrie and Art, Jay Schroeder and Art.....what's the big difference.....?

A solid take from pops as usual.

An interesting blog at Sportingnews:

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/vi ... hp?t=61353

Good luck, Art

February 11, 2006

I genuinely feel bad for Art Shell. In order to get a second head coaching position in the NFL, he had to wait 11 seasons and still wound up working for the devil.

I know NFL guys love Al Davis. I'm not privy to that inner circle, but I don't think I would even want to be. Davis has become a joke in my opinion and in many others'. They're just not willing to say it publicly.

Davis has brought this once-proud franchise down to its knees and made it a laughingstock in the court of public opinion and in some of those same circles that once believed in "Just Lose Baby" Al.

I know it's pretty hard to justify what I am writing when the Raiders were in the Super Bowl just a few years ago,but the following year saw a disaster unfold, as whiny overpaid prima donna players went above the powerless Bill Callahan and directly to the man who writes their checks.

Then, Davis hired (and fired two years later) Norv Turner, who might have been a brilliant mind in Dallas with Troy Aikman, Emmitt Smith and Michael Irvin but was a failure as the top guy in Washington. Turner not only didn't improve the Raiders but probably left them in even further disarray.

Here's the deal. The players know who the top banana is. Unless Al Davis gives Art Shell complete authority and takes a more "hands-off" approach, the Raiders cannot and will not win in this era of NFL football. You say that Shell did it the last time he was the head coach of the silver and black, but that was a much different league.

Players today are even harder to handle than just a decade ago, not to mention the increased difficulty of managing a salary cap and the never-ending injury bug that seems to effect just about every team in the league with the exception of a few.

I hope that Art Shell didn't just take this job just because Al Davis had nowhere else to go after being turned down by Mike Martz, Bobby Petrino, Ken Whisenhunt, Daffy Duck and Micky Mouse. I have a feeling he did, out of his own desperation and out of Davis' equal desperation.

Shell should have some instant credibility because of his Hall of Fame career as a player and his 54-38 record as the head coach of the Raiders in his first tenure (which included a 51-3 waxing in the 1991 AFC Championship game). How much that will mean to Randy Moss, Jerry Porter and Warren Sapp remains to be seen.

The question must be asked: What took Shell so long to get a second opportunity to be a head coach? I've been told by a couple of NFL people that Shell did not interview well in other opportunities and also has long been known for his quiet, stoic personality. Does that mean he's not capable? Of course not. His record would tell you otherwise. However, sometimes you are a victim of circumstances or the beneficiary of another set of factors.

Of course, the color of Shell's skin is going to be a factor in discussion here. Let me say this for the record: I just do not believe in the nonsense that gets spewed by media, fans and Jesse Jackson; I don't believe that decisions are made based on skin color when it comes to head coaching positions in the NFL. If that were true, how would you explain Tony Dungy, Herman Edwards, and Ray Rhodes all getting immediate opportunities with a second team?

I know that's not a popular stance, but that is the stone cold truth. Why would Shell be picked on and denied another chance despite his success, yet Edwards, Dungy and Rhodes had no problems getting another job right away?

Whatever the reason, Shell now has his next chance. He takes over a talented but underachieving roster that Al Davis has put together. You can't ask for much more firepower on offense than Randy Moss, Jerry Porter and LaMont Jordan. Warren Sapp, Derrick Burgess and, well, ummm, Tommy Kelly, make up a good front seven on defense. Penalties and a very young secondary will be Shell's chief obstacles in changing around this team's fortunes.

I hope he's given a fair chance, and not just one or two years, with a roster that's based on speed and skill and very little football savvy or ability.
Good luck, Art. For your sake, I hope you know what you're getting yourself into.

Posted: **Sun Feb 12, 2006 8:30 am**

I think Art's hair will be ALOT grayer at the end of next season.

Posted: **Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:10 pm**

Question: You spoke of toughness, tough love. Can you expand on that?

Arthur Shell: "People have to understand what I think toughness is. it's not after the play is over, slapping you upside the head, shoving and pushing. That's not toughness. Toughness means if I am an offensive lineman, I am going to line up in front of you, I am going to hit you in your mouth, we are going to get 6-7 yards, I am going to go back to the huddle, I am going to look at you and smile and I am going to hit you in the mouth again. It's execution. Toughness."

Old School

RACK Arthur Shell

Posted: **Mon Feb 13, 2006 5:35 pm**

KC Paul 3.0 wrote:

O.G.'s everywhere in South Central LA will shed a tear waxing poetic....

IN, and RACK.

NWA should've played every time homeboy took the field.

Love how art used to troll the sideline looking fucking Gangster-how very Raideresque it truly was.

RACK the hire.

The Raider mystique has taken a huge hit because of Al, and he seems to have addressed his error in that regard.

Now hire Phil Villapiano as our LB's coach

"When you play for the Raiders you play to win and you play tough. It's not something the coaches teach or talk about. It's just there, like in the air. It's an attitude--you are going to hit people and smash them if you are a Raider."

and Tatum as our DB's coach

"Jack Tatum could hit a man so hard it would lift both his feet off the ground. I remember one game, when the opposing QB tried to scramble for a first down; and Jack knocked him out cold. So they put their back-up in and Jack knocked him out too. Then the punter came in; same thing happened. They ended with their tight-end under center."
- Woody Hayes, Tatum's coach at Ohio State

Its a good move any way you look at it-football wise or business wise.

Now fire Jimmy Raye Al-pretty fucking please with sugar on top.

Posted: **Mon Feb 13, 2006 5:53 pm**

Your wish has already been granted, James.

Raye is gone to the Jets.

Curious to find out who the new O-Coordinator is gonna be.

It's an important job, as Shell's thing is not Xs and Os, IMO.

Posted: **Mon Feb 13, 2006 6:01 pm**

poptart wrote:Your wish has already been granted, James.

Raye is gone to the Jets.

Curious to find out who the new O-Coordinator is gonna be.

It's an important job, as Shell's thing is not Xs and Os, IMO.

Out. Stand. Ing.

And I couldnt agree more with you...........

Posted: **Mon Feb 13, 2006 6:48 pm**

mvscal wrote:
poptart wrote:It's an important job, as Shell's thing is not Xs and Os, IMO.
And what, exactly, is Art's "thing"?

Something Chargerfan has absolutely no fucking concept of: Winning.

Anything else you bukkake bullseye?

Posted: **Mon Feb 13, 2006 8:04 pm**

There is a whole lot more to being a head NFL coach than being a chalkboard wiz, mvscal.

Organization, motivation, preparation, cohesion, accountability, discipline, focus, media, .... on and on.

Bobby Petrino would have been my top choice for the Oakland job, but Shell is a reasonable choice.

Since he left Oakland he worked for Shottenheimer in KC, and Reeves in Atlanta.

Those guys have won a hell of a lot of NFL games.

It's reasonable to believe that Art will be a better coach the second time around than he was the first, which wasn't too bad, btw. 56-41.

More mature now as a person and a coach.

Posted: **Mon Feb 13, 2006 10:22 pm**

mvscal wrote:He was a mediocre head coach at best.

charger fan is well versed in mediocrity, they strive to achieve it every season.

same goes for kc fan.

Arthur Shell coached the Raiders for six seasons, took them to the playoffs 3 times including an AFC championship game.

Whats schottenheimer's record in SD? What was Vermeil's in KC?

Posted: **Mon Feb 13, 2006 10:38 pm**

RACK Sirfindafold

Houston Oil.......err...Chargerslunt making an appearance and talking head coach smack of all fucking things is laughably stupid/pathetic at best.

Bring it, pmscal-and watch in amazement as I take your limp wristed fucking smack and shove it sideways up your man frosted stink pucker.

Fucking tard.

Posted: **Tue Feb 14, 2006 1:24 am**

Raydah James wrote: Bring it, pmscal-and watch in amazement as I take your limp wristed fucking smack and shove it sideways up your man frosted stink pucker.

Uh-huh...Lames bringing the smack that will once again get shoved right back down his throat.

You don't learn, son.

Let me help you out Lames. Lord knows I've tried in the past, but since you've paid dearly for these lessons, I reckon I owe you that much.

You are NOT the be all and end all of conversations here.

You are NOT going to scare anybody off with your barney badass homosmack.

You ARE my bitch who HAD to send me $120.00 to cover your SHIT talking mouf just so that you can continue to post your mindlessly INEFFECTIVE rants on this here message board.

Any Questions?

Posted: **Tue Feb 14, 2006 2:20 am**

Let me guess, whitey-a 12'er of bartles and james tonight?

Im going to stick around for a few minutes more to melt you the fuck down, old man.

Lets do this.

Posted: **Tue Feb 14, 2006 2:33 am**

No, you won't.

Posted: **Tue Feb 14, 2006 3:04 am**

Well golly, Wagon, keep saving James' donations and one day you'll have enough for a water heater.

......air conditioner, lawn mower, fence.....

Posted: **Tue Feb 14, 2006 3:04 am**

poptart wrote:Your wish has already been granted, James.

Raye is gone to the Jets.

Curious to find out who the new O-Coordinator is gonna be.

It's an important job, as Shell's thing is not Xs and Os, IMO.

tom Walsh is the frontrunner.

Posted: **Tue Feb 14, 2006 3:21 am**

poptart wrote:Well golly, Wagon, keep saving James' donations and one day you'll have enough for a water heater.

......air conditioner, lawn mower, fence.....

Or maybe one day you'll back up your feeble smack with something other than worthless words?

Not holding my breath.

Posted: **Tue Feb 14, 2006 5:54 pm**

Sirfindafold wrote:
mvscal wrote:He was a mediocre head coach at best.
charger fan is well versed in mediocrity, they strive to achieve it every season.

same goes for kc fan.

Arthur Shell coached the Raiders for six seasons, took them to the playoffs 3 times including an AFC championship game.

Whats schottenheimer's record in SD? What was Vermeil's in KC?

....huh? :?

..Schott's record over the Raiduh's is 6-2 with 4 straight routs...any other questions

T1B

RaydahFan, you got yer man....I GUESS

Re: RaydahFan, you got yer man....I GUESS