T1B

mouse wrote:Dam what is this nation coming to? I say we replace those folks with some Mexican who really want to be here.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2006/04/0 ... 3#comments

The Most Important Fact Congress and Illegal Advocates Have Overlooked, Or Ignored

The latest attempt at immigration reform which is being pushed by Congress and the President, is ignoring one extremely important point and putting all of our lives at risk.

Before I get to that point:

For the sake of argument, I will not mention the costs that illegal immigration puts on all local and state governments through Welfare, our Health Care system, our school systems, etc. That will continually be debated.

I will also skim over the somewhat hidden problem of criminals coming into this country. According to the General Accounting Office (the investigative arm of Congress), at the end of the year 2004, there were 49,000 illegal aliens in federal prisons. 49,000 illegals that commited serious crimes in our country after crossing the border. This is data that cannot be debated as these are facts as reported by the GAO.

Now, Congress and open border proponents seem to accept this as a small price to pay. After all, 49,000 as compared to 12 million illegals is a very small percentage. At least that is the argument I have heard from some far left liberals I know. Well, you tell the tens of thousands of families in this country how their family member being murdered by an illegal is a small price to pay. You tell the families of daughters, wives, nieces, aunts that have been brutally raped by illegals that it is a small price to pay for helping so many improve their lives.

Sorry, but losing hundreds of lives to murder, putting thousands of others through lifelong torment because they were raped, or beaten in an aggravated assault or robbery is not a small price to pay for the families and individuals victimized.

But, the illegal proponents, the open border proponents, the Congress and the President (yup, I said it) seem to think this is a small price. In fact, I have heard ludicrous arguments like: We have thousands of murders in this country every year by citizens. What an infantile argument. Yes, we do. But the thousands of attacks, rapes, murders, robberies perpetrated by illegals affect the victims just as badly as if citizens did it and the vast majority COULD HAVE BEEN PREVENTED with very strict border control.

And I am not even mentioning the cost of incarnerating these illegals, which runs about 6-8 billion dollars a year!!

However, as bad as this is, that is not my main point. There is yet another problem with illegals crossing our border that has the potential to dwarf the problems listed above.

The even bigger problem is with OTM's. Not familiar with that term? OTM's is a term the US Border Patrol uses. It stands for Other Than Mexican's. OTM's are those illegals apprehended by the BP that are not from Mexico.

According to the US Border Patrol (USBP) the number of illegals apprehended in the fiscal year 2005 was 1.2 MILLION. This is how many were apprehended. The USBP estimates they apprehend about 1 in 4 illegals crossing the border, but many think that the number is closer to 1 in 10. Still, let us take the smaller number: The USBP catches 1 illegal for every four that come through. That means in fiscal 2005, at least 3.6 MILLION illegals were able to enter our country.

Now, of these numbers, 7% are OTM's (again, according to GAO statistics).

This is from the Congressional Research Service (CRS) Report For Congress entitled:
Border Security: "Apprehensions of "Other Than Mexican" Aliens
September 22, 2005
http://www.mipt.org/pdf/CRS_RL33097.pdf...

The number of OTM apprehensions remained relatively stable from 1998 to 2002, averaging almost 37,000 a year over the six-year time period. Apprehensions increased by 33% from FY2002 to FY2003, and 52% from FY2003 to FY2004. Roughly three-quarters of the way into FY2005, OTM apprehensions have increased by 58% from FY2004. Indeed, over the last three years OTM apprehensions have more than tripled, increasing by almost 220%. This trend is in stark contrast to apprehensions of Mexican aliens, which have remained relatively stable over the same period.

Here is a breakdown of the top 25 OTM nationalities:

Country: FY2002, FY2003, FY2004, FY2005 (through July 11), %Change FY02-FY05
Honduras: 9316, 14491, 24420, 36118, 288%
Brazil: 3100, 5240, 8859, 27396, 784%
El Salvador: 7036, 9602, 16974, 27317, 288%
Guatemala: 6021, 7728, 11628, 14866, 147%
Nicaragua: 581, 765, 1460, 2498, 330%
Cuba: 1541, 1303, 1406, 2144, 39%
China: 688, 576, 1096, 1653, 140%
Ecuador: 664, 521, 679, 989, 49%
Dominican Republic: 1183, 2057, 2023, 969, -18%
Costa Rica: 233, 382, 450, 700, 200%
Canada: 1836, 1611, 1497, 697, -62%
Peru: 312, 366, 370, 388, 24%
Colombia: 347, 368, 335, 308, -11%
India: 345, 316, 378, 235, -32%
Jamaica: 287, 269, 215, 162, -44%
Bolivia: 48, 59, 140, 161, 235%
Albania: 167, 115, 117, 155, -7%
Argentina: 207, 252, 168, 138, -33%
Haiti: 295, 324, 165, 131, -56%
Poland: 228, 205, 231, 122, -46%
Romania 42, 58, 85, 103, 145%
South Korea: 143, 218, 161, 98, -31%
Pakistan: 167, 228, 164, 91, -46%
Venezuela: 69, 126, 132, 88, 28%
Israel: 103, 109, 91, 68, -34%
Source: CRS Analysis of CBP Data.

I show you these statistics to try and give you a perspective on the sheer size of the problem along our border.

The USBP also has another designation for certain illegals that are apprehended. This is: Special Interest OTM Apprehensions. Basically these are people apprehended that are from 35 countries designated by our intelligence community as countries known to support, harbor or export terrorism. I have yet to find the official list of exactly which countries these are but I am sure it is available somewhere.

Here are the latest stats on these Special Interest OTM's:
Year, # of SIOTM's Apprehended
1997, 729
1998, 721
1999, 736
2000, 676
2001, 766
2002, 849
2003, 807
2004, 626

Remember, this is the number of persons apprehended attempting to cross our border illegally that are from countries KNOWN to support, harbor or sponsor terrorism. How many others were not caught? Well, again using USBP numbers of 1 in 4 caught: The total above is: 5,910. This means that possibly as many as 24,000 illegals from countries that sponsor or support terrorism made it in!

Again, these are all government figures easily found on government web sites. These are FACTS, not theories, guesses, etc., but FACTS. And these are FACTS that the US Congress knows, or should know, as these are reported by the Congressional Research Service.

When I tell liberal 'friends' these numbers, they always give the same response:

Those numbers are so small compared to the overall numbers of illegals that they are insignificant.

Insignificant? It only took 19 terrorists to kill 3,000 Americans!! Look at the numbers again! Those are the ones that were CAPTURED. And, as the USBP tells us, they catch only about 1 in 4.

This is where the Congress, the President, the groups that advocate an open border are putting the lives of all Americans at risk. No, wait: They are putting the lives of all PEOPLE in this country, legal or illegal, at risk. The Congress is doing it merely for votes. The President is doing it because he is a globalist and does not believe in secure borders. The advocacy groups are doing it for purely selfish reasons.

When the next terrorist strike occurs, be it a nuke, chemical weapons, or something as simple as a truck bomb at a mall or sporting event, those killed will not be only legal Americans. Those killed will not be only White. Those killed will not be only Conservatives, straight, religious. This attack will kill anyone in its path, including liberals, illegals, whites, blacks, hispanics, gays, straights, ANYONE!

When this happens, and it is proven that the terrorists came across the border, we can blame Congressional members for the deaths. When this happens, we can blame those selfish, egotistical groups that pushed for open borders and no controls on immigration.

But, I fear, this will not be the worst. Yes, more Americans killed as a result of terrorism would be terrible. But the aftermath may be even worse. What would happen here in the USA could be similar to an internal war.

The saddest thing about all this is that the leaders of the greatest, strongest country in the world did not do their most basic, fundamental job: Protect the country, protect our borders.

Maybe 99.9% of all illegals are good, moral, decent, hard working people. As we know, or should know, from experience, it only takes a handful of terrorists to kill thousands. It only takes a handful of terrorists to bring the world economy to its knees.

As much as I am against amnesty and people crossing our borders illegally to work, I am much more fearful of another terrorist attack. Done right, it could not only kill hundreds or thousands, but it could bring our economy to it's knees. And when that happens, legals and illegals alike will lose their jobs and their incomes.

Congress, the President and the illegal advocates seem to think that these are good odds and are playing with OUR lives to prove it. If they are wrong, the backlash will be dramatic
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By: exintelligenceanalyst on April 01, 2006 at 04:04pm
Flag: [abusive] [best of]

ENNIS (TEXAS, STUDENT)PROTESTORS BARRED FROM PROM
The Dallas Morning News ^ | 1 April 2006 | Scott Goldstein


Posted on 04/01/2006 8:59:02 AM PST by MeneMeneTekelUpharsin


Several Ennis High School seniors have been barred from their school prom tonight for protesting Thursday against proposed federal immigration legislation. School officials suspended 120 to 130 students from classes Friday and barred them from school events this weekend, including sporting events and the prom. The students attend Ennis High School, Ennis Junior High and the Sixth Grade Center. "We got suspended, and we're not allowed to go to prom for standing up for something that we believe is right," said senior Araceli Garcia, 18.

To: MeneMeneTekelUpharsin
Well, boys and girls. School officiais also believe in standing up for what is right......obeying the rules. You were warned, and actions DO have consequences...part of your EDUCATION.

7 posted on 04/01/2006 9:07:39 AM PST by Carolinamom (I don't believe in a government that protects us from ourselves. ---Ronald Reagan)

---------

To: MeneMeneTekelUpharsin

I think part of the inherent nobility in doing 'something you beleive in' is to absorb the consequences of it, on route to the social change you want to see realized.

Increasingly, our culture insists on enjoying benefits with no interest in bearing the burderns. Odd.

18 posted on 04/01/2006 9:17:21 AM PST by HitmanLV (Some people like to dash it out, but they just can't take it!)

Students Who Want To Fly American Flags Walk Out
The Denver Channel ^ | 3/31/06 | Staff


Posted on 03/31/2006 1:57:51 PM PST by Millee


More than two dozen students walked out of Skyline High School Friday morning to protest what they say is a ban that doesn't allow the American flag to be flown on school grounds.

Several students said that they were upset that Mexican flags can be waved around but that American flags couldn't. They said that school officials confiscated their American flags because it has become inflammatory because of recent immigration issues.

"When the immigration laws came out we noticed that a lot of Hispanics were waving Mexican flags and what we were thinking to ourselves is like, isn't the immigration law to stay in the country? You want to stay in America, correct? So I said, for every Mexican flag, you should have an American flag right next to it. So a few people went out and started waving American flags, and that's where everything bridged out," said Skyline student R.J. Fogal. "That's when they started telling us that we can't wave American flags, there's going to be no flags today, or everyone is going to be suspended -- whoever carries a flag."

"What we want to know is since when was it against the rules to have an American flag on a car, in a car, in your hands in a school?" said student William Cassity.

Skyline principal Tom Stumpf said that the school enacted a ban this week that prohibits students to display, wear or fly any flag -- American or Mexican.

"The (policy) evolved because the flags were being used, not as a symbol of cultural heritage, but the flags were being used as symbols of bigotry, a symbol of hostility. They were being used to inflame different groups and we're simply not going to tolerate that at Skyline High School," Stumpf said.

"My paramount obligation, my solemn obligation at Skyline High School, is to provide a safe and secure environment and with the flags being used as a catalyst to stir up the students, to stir up the environment, I cannot condone that ... One flag was thrown into the face of another group and another flag was being brandished in front of another group and it was done to raise emotions, and we don't want that. We want respect -- that's our main goal at Skyline High School," he said.

The school has a diverse population and some students say there have been tensions between different ethnic groups because of the national immigration debate.

"I think our whole society is on different sides of the immigration issue and I can't control that. All I'm asking from our students is respect -- respect for one another, treating each other as they themselves want to be treated, treating each other decently, civilly," Stumpf said.

He said the students have a right to rally and those who walked out of class on Friday would not be punished.

Immigration rallies don't sway Texans in Congress
Dallas Morning News ^ | Thursday, March 30, 2006 | TODD J. GILLMAN


Posted on 03/31/2006 1:43:58 PM PST by SUSSA


Texas lawmakers said mass protests in Dallas and other cities haven't moved the immigration debate much, with some expressing irritation at the widespread student walkouts.

(snip)

"It is offensive and outrageous for people who have broken the law to demand to be treated equally," said Rep. John Culberson, a Houston Republican who said federal authorities should have deployed buses to round up illegal immigrants at the marches. "It's as if we had mass protests of trespassers after they're caught, demanding the same rights as homeowners."


(Excerpt) Read more at dallasnews.com ...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-new ... 1&&page=51

To: governsleastgovernsbest
"They pay taxes, their children are Americans

She's an idiot!

The Constitution of the United States does not grant citizenship at birth to just anyone who happens to be born within American borders. It is the allegiance (complete jurisdiction) of the child’s birth parents at the time of birth that determines the child’s citizenship--not geographical location. If the United States does not have complete jurisdiction, for example, to compel a child’s parents to Jury Duty–then the U.S. does not have the total, complete jurisdiction demanded by the Fourteenth Amendment to make their child a citizen of the United States by birth. How could it possibly be any other way? The framers succeeded in their desire to define what persons are, or are not, citizens of the United States. They also succeeded in making both their intent and construction clear for future generations of courts and government. Whether our government or courts will start to honor and uphold the supreme law of the land for which they are obligated to by oath, is another very disturbing matter.

http://idexer.com/citizenship.htm

72 posted on 03/28/2006 6:22:14 AM PST by Master of Orion

Bobby42 wrote:You done?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tony-hend ... 18218.html (a response to a blogger's wank-off over last week's marches)

The theory that the U.S. Southwest really "belongs" to Mexico is historically inaccurate.

The land belongs to native Americans. In the central coastal areas of California, the Chumash owned and occupied all of the land. Their ancestors can be traced back 10,000 years. They had villages spread up and down the coast, had their own culture, art (their cave paintings still survive), and languages.

In the 1760s Spain (through its conquest of Mexico) decided that all native Americans should be rounded up, baptized as Catholics, their culture destroyed. This led to the mission system created up the coast in California and, in turn, led to the deaths of thousands of native Americans and destruction of their communities and culture.

Mexico got its independence from Spain in 1820. Instead of giving the California land back to the people who owned it -- the Chumash-- Mexico gave it to Mexicans in what were called Mexican Land Grants. So Mexico's claim to the land was illegitimate - the land was taken by force by Spain, then grabbed by Mexico for the few years after its own independence and before the Mexican-American war.

The Mexican-American War (about 1846-50) led to U.S. "yankees" taking the land of California. Treaties were signed by the U.S. to respect and honor the Mexican land grants, but that did not happen. Instead, laws were passed saying the Mexicans had to "prove" their ownership - and the local recorders offices which had the vital land records were burned down by the yankees. Then the yankees bought the land up in secret auctions.

It's a little annoying to hear Mexicans claim that the land really belongs to them, because their claim is derivitive only of the genocide committed by Spain and the Catholic Church. Mexico "owned" this land for about 30 years, at most.

And of course Mexicans don't come here because they need land. They have land - plenty of it. They just do not have jobs.

I also do not buy the argument that immigrants only take jobs that no one else wants. Anyone who lives in California can drive by construction sites all over this state and see the number of jobs now held by Mexican day laborers who, in turn, will eventually become the carpenters and tradesmen on the jobs. These were previously good-paying American jobs. The "savings" is not passed on to consumers. It is taken by developers, contractors, lenders, and real estate brokers.

In fact, part of the radical increase in the cost of houses in California is the result of unrestricted immigration. Speculators buy up small houses in old (but decent)neighborhoods, then pack them with as many as 20 day laborers who pay $500/month each to sleep on a mattress on the floor. This causes the property values to fall, leads to an increase in crime, and forces other people to move -to more expensive areas. You cannot bring in an extra 11 million people in 10 years and not have it drive up the cost of housing: more people chasing fewer units.

For example, it is not uncommon for two Mexican families to go together to buy one home, because that's the only way they can afford it. Fine for them, but it still has the effect of driving up prices. We now have fairly shabby old 3-bedroom homes in bad neighborhoods selling for over $500,000. And wages have not in any way kept up with the increased prices.

It is absurd to say a massive influx of new people into an area does not negatively affect the residents. Schools are overcrowded and now being required to teach in two languages. Police are understaffed and faced with more crime - including gang crime and violence that is fueled by gang vendettas and loyalties originating in the drug trade south of the border. The sanitation systems are overused - including water and sewage. There is more pollution from more cars. Emergency rooms are grossly overcrowded (12 hour waits are common) while also going broke (and shutting down) because illegal immigrants use emergency rooms as their primary care - because they cannot afford to pay a regular doctor, and the emergency rooms are legally prohibited from refusing to see patients who cannot pay.

Just ask this: whatever your living circumstances, if you were told that 5 people were going to move in with you, most of whom have no skills, no education, and do not speak your language - wouldn't you object?

Immigration is a national issue. The federal government to whom we pay much in taxes is supposed to come up with the number of people who can come in each year. Those people are supposed to fill out forms, stand in line, be investigated, etc. Ignoring the rules and laws is creating chaos. Something radical must happen to stop this.
- NABNYC, 03.31.2006

Bobby42 wrote:They should ban no flags.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sherman-y ... 18208.html (replies in response to some bloggers' wank on his illegal maid)


"There is an element of nativist racism in the argument against a more open and humane immigration policy. If the eleven million undocumented aliens were not brown, but fair haired Canadians from North of the border, would there be such an outcry?"

Wow. Judgmental much?

Not to burst your bubble, but yes. If all the immigrants were fair haired Canadians, proper Brits, friendly Aussies, or any other 11 million anglo people -- my opinion on illegal immigration would be unchanged.

Perhaps you can't accept the economic aspect to the opposition to illegal immigration. I'm glad you could afford this admittedly marvelous woman. I'm also pretty sure she was less expensive than an au pair for you.

You got a bargain, and helped a nice lady.

Developers and contractors get a bargain, and help nice young gentlemen doing construction.

Farmers get a bargain, and help nice young families.

Meatpackers get a bargain, and help nice young men and women.

The problem is -- America is not the world's charity. The things you are giving away -- the jobs and wages of your fellow Americans -- are NOT YOURS TO GIVE!

You think you are being charitable, but I'm really only seeing your own selfishness. You got cheap childcare. Corporations and businesses get below-market-wage labor.

Its the exact same thing.

Who does it hurt? Regular Americans. People whose parents or grandparents fought to protect this country. People who have either been making America great for generations, or who have went through the LEGAL process of becoming a worker or citizen of America.

People who followed the rules. The rules written by the people's duly elected representatives.

America belongs first and foremost to Americans. Americans get to decide how she runs. You may not agree. But it is not your right to override the will of Americans, no matter how 'compassionate' you believe yourself to be.

Most of us get that. Our current President doesn't, and is going to go down as the worst this country has ever had.

If you want more legal immigrants -- find the votes for it.

But don't pat yourself on the head for breaking the law, and call the law abiding citizens names.

- HowardRoarke, 03.31.2006
----------------

"I know the downside of a guest worker program or one of amnesty; it appears that it is rewarding illegal behavior. Yes, true, but our society does that time and again."

That doesn't mean we should do it now. I'm as liberal as they come, but this country needs tighter control of who can cross our borders, so I break with my liberal friends on this issue.

The solution to immigration is to beef up our immigration agencies to allow more *legal* immigrants in, and protect our borders to keep ALL illegal imgrants out. Assuming you have good intentions, are coming to seek work and contribute to American society, and aren't bringing any serious infectious diseases with you, America welcomes you with open arms. If you're coming just to line the pockets of some corporate fat cat who doesn't want to pay a decent working wage, then stay home.

And yes, I understand the economic reality of living without the endless supply of dirt cheap labor. And I'm willing to accept that.
- tonyc, 03.30.2006

-----------
You sort of had me going until you threw the racist card out.

I am sick to death of that being thrown at me because we cannot afford to continue to accept the impoverished of third world countries anymore.

Sorry but she should have come here legally. She'd have had no problem and her friend OR YOU could have sponsored here legally here.

I say the same to everyone else. IF you believe it, then have a Mexican, OTM, Chinese, Irish, Martian contact you, make plans to leave America and you can sponsor them immediately into the country.

We simply cannot afford to take care of them anymore.

They may have good intentions although not all of them do. We have almost SIX HUNDRED THOUSAND ILLEGALS in prison for breaking the law. State prisons do not accept illegal immigrants simply for being here illegally. It's not their jurisdiction. It's the feds. In the federal system there are about 45 thousand in there for no other reason than second, third or more illegal entry offenses.

So please spare me this bit about how all of them are the same as your Esperanza.

Most of them are not. They would rather make money here and take it back to Mexico at their leisure and that is primarily what they are working for.

To get the ability to go back and forth at will. Sorry, we can't afford it anymore.

They are a net drain on the USA. The balance is probably 7 to 1 against them. For every buck they contribute they cost 7.

Medical care is breaking us.

Educational is breaking us especially since over half never bother getting past the 9th grade.

Lowering of wages across the board.

Depressing our standard of life.

Well of democrats, liberals, conservatives and Repuglicans could care less. They don't live with it, the rest of us do.

I've told this story over and over. I had a neighbor until very recently who was a contractor and he bragged about using nothing but illegals. He said he got rid of his American and legal workers over the years when he found out he could hire illegals for half the pay, no overtime and still charge home builders the same amount.

So they are taking even decent jobs away because they will work for less thus putting our country and it's citizens out of work.

And this crap about jobs we won't do? Give it a rest already. It's been debunked.

Next time leave the RACIST card out and maybe you'll make more headway.

I'm a longtime liberal and former democrat(when they swiftboated Paul Hackett they lost me forever)and rather than vote democrat for Feinstein, I'll just not vote. She isn't worth it.
- rosethejet, 03.31.2006


"There is an element of nativist racism in the argument against a more open and humane immigration policy."

Ceaser Chavez was opposed to illegal immigration because he understood that the influx of illegal aliens would depress the wages of the workers whose income he wanted to raise. Was Ceaser Chavez a racist?
- CaptainVideo, 03.31.2006

RadioFan wrote:

Bobby42 wrote:They should ban no flags.

What are you talking about? Taunting with a piece of cloth is hurtful and mean.

RadioFan wrote:

Bobby42 wrote:They should ban no flags.

What are you talking about? Taunting with a piece of cloth is hurtful and mean.

SoCalTrjn wrote:The only difference between Mexico and the south west part of the United States is the culutr of who is in charge. If the south weat part of the United States was still Mexico these fuckin people would be climbing the fence in to Oregon, Colorado or wherever the countries border was.

Mexico is a shitty place to live because of Mexicans, look at the neighborhoods in Southern California they live in now, its not white people spray painting anything that will hold still, trhowing shoes over power lines, spending more on rims than they did on the car and then parking it on the yard of a house with 3 bedrooms and 26 occupants.

About 10 years ago I used to go to the street races, I recall getting pulled over and given a ticket because I had my fog lamps on my car lit up. I asked the 2 officers why they were busting me for driving with fog lamps on and they said "youre breaking the law" People here illegally are doing the same and should be busted, just the same

Bobby42 wrote:

RadioFan wrote:

Bobby42 wrote:They should ban no flags.

What are you talking about? Taunting with a piece of cloth is hurtful and mean.

They need to deal with the behavior. School officials receive complaints; they have to answer the complaints and not in the process make it a bigger problem.

SoCalTrjn wrote:What that teachs you is to buy a 300 grand house and spend the rest of your money on private schools