Why is the Bush Administration soft on illegal immigration?

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 5:43 pm

The other day I was presented with the unlikeliest of scenarios...George W. Bush waxing poetic (for him) about the travails and accomplishments and good intentions of illegal immigrants.

How can this be? Why, especially when you consider all of the issues that sit athwart his path, is he getting all teary-eyed about the hard-working illegals that just want to put bread on the table?

The answer, of course, is that he cannot, politically speaking, heed the elephant in the room of this debate - Stateside Employers who are willing to help themselves to illegal labor.

It would probably be political suicide for the Bush Administration to put the screws to employers, in either deed or word. Yet, that component of the equation is as crucial as any other - if not more so. Illegals would not enter this country if there were not many employers willing to partake of their services.

We ALL know that. Yet, we hear more invective and jingoism directed toward the illegals themselves than to their employers. To his credit, W isn't engaging in that, partly because he understands the voting power of the Latino community, and the growing potential of that power in the coming decades. He cannot appear to be insensitive to their concerns like many observers can...nor can he really recognize and attempt to act against those who benefit from illegal labor.

So, where do you stand on this? Personally, I recognize that politically speaking, W is in a bind...but I don't happen to GIVE a fuck about his political prospects, or those of any other politician. Instead, I want to see action taken on the issue. Immigration reform is necessary, as is a focus on policing employers. EXISTING LAW could potentially take care of this, but the TEETH are lacking because no one wants to take the political bullet.

I'm willing to bet we all see illegals at work in our society. Also, I'm willing to bet we all know of employers who benefit from illegal labor. What are we willing to do in order for there to be real progress on this issue? Will we let politicians raise the issues merely to make political hay, or do we demand something more substantive?

Wolfman · Post by **Wolfman** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 5:50 pm

a wild guess--

votes ??

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 5:52 pm

OK, so is that something that you respect? A little hot air, and you're satisfied?

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 6:00 pm

That would certainly address the problem of illegal crossings.

Anything employer-related?

jtr · Post by **jtr** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 6:05 pm

Why is the Bush Administration more concerned about the backgrounds of the people working in the ports than the ones at nuclear waste sites?

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 6:25 pm

mvscal wrote:You aren't going to get anything but "tough" talk from either party.

If it were up to me, I would build the wall across the border, immediately end all welfare entitlements for able bodied adults and provide business with access to the data that would enable them to verify the citizenship of their employees. Failure to do so must result in draconian penalties. Asset forfeiture and ten years in Federal prison minimum.

Any illegal detained will be deported within 72 hours. There is no need for any hearings. You are either properly documented or you are not. Period. It doesn't take lawyers and courts to make that determination.

Right on the money...except for the "shot on sight"....maybe something a little less drastic yet will get the point across......

maybe 6 months to a year in a federal pen before being deported back........

L45B · Post by **L45B** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 6:27 pm

Maybe set weapons to "Stun" ?

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 6:34 pm

maybe 6 months to a year in a federal pen before being deported back

Fuck that, then just let them work illegally. I don't think we want to spend the billions it would take to incarcerate them.

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 6:39 pm

I don't think we want to spend the millions it would take to incarcerate them.

as opposed to the billions these fucking leaches skim off social security and health care?

I'm liking mvs idea about toe poppers........

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 6:41 pm

Strange, I typed billions the first time.

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 6:47 pm

I know, I changed it....I'm not sure how much it would cost to house the illegals for 6 months, but I'd be willing to bet it would still be substantially less than what they cost us in welfare....

Mister Bushice · Post by **Mister Bushice** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 6:51 pm

Simply put, what would stop them or at least slow them down significantly from coming over would be Huuuge fines for employers knowingly hiring them.

If I ran a business that was subject to IRS type fines for not complying to hiring laws, you can bet your sweet ass I'd have every worker documented out the ying yang.

As for health care, have "doctors without borders" step in, and treat them on the bus on the way back over to Mexico.

Truly the medical system is the greatest burden on our economy they cause. Just take one illegal with no insurance who needs emergency surgery to live. You're talking a minimum of $10,000. Who pays that? The hospital eats it and ups their fees to everyone else, so that insurance premiums go up, co pays go up, and thus the burden for paying for health care for illegals is - All of us LEGAL citizens who PAY TAXES and have helath insurance.

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 12:01 am

fukk toe poppers. those just maim and would add to the hospital burden. Use big ass mines. one miss step and paco becomes a bloody mist. No cleanup necessary.

ofcourse, making it a really really bad idea to hire illegals would make all the talk of walls and toe poppers moot.

Diego in Seattle · Post by **Diego in Seattle** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 12:26 am

smackaholic wrote:ofcourse, making it a really really bad idea to hire illegals would make all the talk of walls and toe poppers moot.

Too bad more politicians can't get this simple concept through their pea-brains.

Derron · Post by **Derron** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 12:35 am

Also, I'm willing to bet we all know of employers who benefit from illegal labor.

Get a fuckin clue dick drip.....

An employee comes in and fills out an application....he checks the box for legal to work.

He provides documents that meet the I-9 requirements.

It is against the fucking law for me to question his eligiabilty (SP??) to work in the US. Should I do that, I would be discriminating against them based upon race, and subject myself and the business to prosecution for such.

He has provided the documents the goverment requires an employer to see, and copy and retain. There is no requirement for employers to verify the accuracy or veracity of those documents. We copy and retain the documents.

Now I have no clue if they are illegal or not. They have provided the documents required, I have created the paper trail required...end of process. I pay the same if your white brown or purple.

If is very difficult to circumvent the laws and KNOWLINGLY hire illegal aliens. If they do, it's off the books anyway, and thats a totally different issue. If you do it knowlingly and keep them on the books, you be very stupid and deserve the fucking you will get. If you knowlingly hire illegals under the table, you are skipping on taxes and a lot of other shit... but ya know what... it's happening every mother fucking day in every mother fucking town in the country, and it likely ain't gonna stop no matter what Bush does, or what ever the next Democratic president will do...

Mark my fuckin words.. this economy will fucking implode in 20 years or less unless this imigration thing is stopped now...but the way things are, its 10 years before anything will happen and it may be too fucking late.

I am in the landscape business, and our business is off over 40% this year...Mexicans are working $ 5 per hour under my FUCKING COST. They are not paying taxes, insurances or anything else, and the mother fucking rich yuppies in their big mother fucking houses are hiring them right and left.

So now tell me you fucking human resources know it all... just what the fuck do you propose the goverment do to the employers for obeying the law ?? The liberal human rights fucks have made it illegal to do about 90% of the shit ya'll want the goverment and employers to do....Just do it, and it goes into the Federal court system black hole for 100 years.

What do you suggest... verification of elgibility ?? No process for that. Create another layer of breaucrats and fees to fuck with the employers ??

I bought a fucking .22 rifle yesterday. I had to pay for the background check, fill out three fucking pages of shit, and pay $ 10 for the check. Thats more shit than an employee or employer has to do.

End of major rant...

Husker4ever · Post by **Husker4ever** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 2:39 am

Something needs to be done...quickly. The criminals have now suddenly grown a pair of gonads and march down the streets waving Mexican flags to further mock American law. "Here I am....and you will like it Gringo"

What a bunch of spineless pussies we have in congress. Nevermind the big, dripping labia in the oval office.

RadioFan · Post by **RadioFan** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 2:48 am

Rack Derron.

A couple of observations for the hypocrites ...

Derron wrote:Mark my fuckin words.. this economy will fucking implode in 20 years or less unless this imigration thing is stopped now...but the way things are, its 10 years before anything will happen and it may be too fucking late.

Sincerely,

1985-86, when this suddenly became an "issue" in Washington, just like now.

Derron wrote:and the mother fucking rich yuppies in their big mother fucking houses are hiring them right and left.

And how many of said "rich yuppies" are the ones screaming the loudest about illegal immigration, especially when it comes to taxes ... hmmm?

Ponderous.

As I've posted before, I've worked with illegals in the early-80s in a restaurant in San Antonio. I didn't know each and every one of their specific documentation status, but I do know they were paid the federal minimum wage ... sometimes more ... and paid FICA and SS taxes. Some of them had SS cards, but they weren't citizens. I do know that immigration would come round every once in a while, round a bunch of them up. Funny thing was, not one one single immigration officer ever asked to see my papers, ever. Most of the dudes and dudettes they'd haul off would be back in a few weeks.

Even back then, my employer would hire guys in high school, like myself. Few of them ever lasted. Know why? Because you actually had to WORK your ass off. And that was back in the early 80s, for Christ's sake. It's gotten much worse since then ('sup obesity and lathargic kids here?). Given my limited experience with today's youth and their idea of "work" ... I can see why employers would hire people who seem to have the right doumentation and are willing to actually WORK for a living, instead of being whining mama's boys who somehow expect they deserve everthing without having to do shit for it. That's what we have with a LOT of people in this country, folks. And Derron is right on when he says it isn't the employer's responsibility to become an expert in documentation and governmental paperwork.

I'm not saying this isn't a complex issue. It is. In addition to a significant percent of our population who is flat out LAZY, part of the problem lies in Mexico itself. THAT is where our president should be pressing ... only for REAL reform, such as an end to the Mexican government being so fucking antiquatingly nationalistic that they dow't allow foreign investment or property ownership. That's part of the reason why they remain a shithole, economicaly.

tough love · Post by **tough love** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 3:14 am

Why is the Bush Administration soft on illegal immigration?

Because when you get right down to it, if you are not First Nations, you are all immigrant spawn.

RadioFan · Post by **RadioFan** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 3:26 am

tough love wrote:
Why is the Bush Administration soft on illegal immigration?
Because when you get right down to it, if you are not First Nations, you are all immigrant spawn.

Garden of Eden?

Husker4ever · Post by **Husker4ever** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 3:35 am

tough love wrote:
Why is the Bush Administration soft on illegal immigration?
Because when you get right down to it, if you are not First Nations, you are all immigrant spawn.

The difference being, my heritage didn't include a criminal act in getting here.

That bullshit arguement has been soundly trounced. Time to move on to the next flimsy excuse for committing a crime.

RadioFan · Post by **RadioFan** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 3:43 am

Husker4ever wrote: The difference being, my heritage didn't include a criminal act in getting here.

The difference being, there's no logical reason whatsoever why we can't let more than 120,000 or so people into this country a year, legally.

Have you ever had to deal with the immigration service? Those people make the fucking DMV out to be models of squeaky-clean efficiency.

Husker4ever · Post by **Husker4ever** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 3:49 am

RadioFan wrote:
Husker4ever wrote: The difference being, my heritage didn't include a criminal act in getting here.
The difference being, there's no logical reason whatsoever why we can't let more than 120,000 or so people into this country a year, legally.

Have you ever had to deal with the immigration service? Those people make the fucking DMV out to be models of squeaky-clean efficiency.

I completely agree that we should allow LEGAL immigration into this country. It means they were not only screened properly before admittance, but that they also have shown respect for the country they wanted to be citizens of.

I'm not following you here. You're excusing criminal acts because of the red tape of doing it legally?

edit: I deal directly with "ICE" "INS" "DHS" or whatever you know it by. I also place immigration holds on illegal aliens who have committed violent crimes in this country.

From my experience, it must be okay to fuck 12 year olds in Mexico as well as get piss drunk and drive around banking off parked cars, crash into the front porch of the house you live in, and then go inside and beat the fuck piss out of the old lady to let her know her role in a traditional Mexican marriage.

Husker4ever · Post by **Husker4ever** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 4:04 am

So we should legalize pot and annex Mexico? Sounds good to me. You ain't going to reform an old hippie and you ain't going to polish a terd. Legalize pot, tax the hell out of it, and earmark the revenue for cleaning up the dungheap aka our 51st state: Mexico.

edit: Where did the post I replied to go?

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 4:07 am

Husker4ever wrote: edit: I deal directly with "ICE" "INS" "DHS" or whatever you know it by. I also place immigration holds on illegal aliens who have committed violent crimes in this country.

From my experience, it must be okay to fuck 12 year olds in Mexico as well as get piss drunk and drive around banking off parked cars, crash into the front porch of the house you live in, and then go inside and beat the fuck piss out of the old lady to let her know her role in a traditional Mexican marriage.

Well, there we have it.

A complete and total synopsis of each and every "illegal" who inhabits this country.

You're an idiot.

Does your salary get paid by my tax dolllars?

I want it back.

Jerkovich · Post by **Jerkovich** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 4:13 am

Thank you PSU, they can pass all the 'laws' they want, but it won't do a thing because the ILLEAGALS don't respect our laws in the first place.

1. Close the boarder (Walls and mines\towers)and stop the flow of ALL ILLEGALS

2. Impose stiff penalties to employers that blatantly hire ILLEGAL aliens.(Jail time)

3. Give the ILLEAGALS 60 days to finalize their business here and get the fuck out....goodbye.(No, get the fuck out)

4. Now begin a process where one can apply to work here legally.(Maybe)

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 4:18 am

If it was up to me, I'd deport all of you.

You people suck and need to get a clue.

Jerkovich · Post by **Jerkovich** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 4:19 am

War Wagon wrote:If it was up to me, I'd deport all of you.

You people suck and need to get a clue.

Starting with your sorry ass.

RadioFan · Post by **RadioFan** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 4:21 am

Husker4ever wrote:I'm not following you here. You're excusing criminal acts because of the red tape of doing it legally?

What I'm saying is that for it to even be a "criminal act" is idiotic to begin with, when there's a market for it. Sort of like marijuana, from that standpoint. To quote Col. Potter: "Stupid rule. And stupid rules are meant to be broken." That's from a M*A*S*H episode, where it was against regulations to treat patients with Curare, in 1951 or whatever.

We make it incredibly difficult for people to immigrate LEGALLY into this country.

We are a market-driven economy.

This isn't rocket science, bro. Maybe if our guys weren't "working" so hard designing Web-based information systems with the ability censor political speech for China, or offloading cargo from Malaysia and China at Wal-Mart, we'd be able to protect our own borders better. Ain't happening anytime soon.

My condolences that you work in the federal beuracracy of acronyms, if that's what you do.

And make no mistake, the trolling on this and a lot of other boards aside, there is an element of racism in this issue, a strong, sickening one, from 99 percent of folks whose ancestors at one time or another here were the "cheap laborers," the ones who spoke that "foreign tongue," the ones who should "go home."

Jerkovich · Post by **Jerkovich** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 4:33 am

RadioFan wrote: Ponderous

Let's try this again, ya fucking pussies. go ahead and delete this one too, shit for brains.

Fucking pointing out some other jack dick and you have a hissy fit, cock bite.

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 4:37 am

RadioFan wrote: And make no mistake, the trolling on this and a lot of other boards aside, there is an element of racism in this issue, a strong, sickening one, from 99 percent of folks whose ancestors at one time or another here were the "cheap laborers," the ones who spoke that "foreign tongue," the ones who should "go home."

So why should it be any different ? It's not being racist, it's being fair. Wouldn't want to deny others the same "beating in" into the gang every other culture experienced now would we.

RadioFan · Post by **RadioFan** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 4:41 am

Tom In VA wrote:So why should it be any different ? It's not being racist, it's being fair. Wouldn't want to deny others the same "beating in" into the gang every other culture experienced now would we.

Shit. Fuck me for being serious for a second.

RACK

jtr · Post by **jtr** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:15 am

tough love wrote:
Why is the Bush Administration soft on illegal immigration?
Because when you get right down to it, if you are not First Nations, you are all immigrant spawn.

Were you in Canada when the Ocean Ranger sank?

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 10:31 am

PSUFAN wrote:
maybe 6 months to a year in a federal pen before being deported back
Fuck that, then just let them work illegally. I don't think we want to spend the billions it would take to incarcerate them.

Bring back the chain gang.

That would also take care of the 'jobs Americans won't do' "issue", and serve as a deterant.

As far as for Bush, he's still got the same problem he always has.

Too much of a uniter, not enough of a divider.

Derron · Post by **Derron** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 1:45 pm

An politically incorrect joke for the day:

A Mexican drinks his beer and suddenly throws his glass in the air,
pulls out his pistol and shoots the glass to pieces. He says, "In Mexico
our glasses so cheap we don't need to drink from the same glass, twice."

An Iraqi, obviously impressed by this, drinks his beer, throws his
glass into the air, pulls out his AK-47 and shoots the glass to pieces. He
says,"In Iraq we have so much sand to make glasses that we don't need to drink out of the same glass, twice, either."

The Texas cowboy, cool as a cucumber, picks up his beer and drinks
it, throws his glass into the air, pulls out his pistol and shoots both the
Mexican and the Iraqi in the head, and catches his glass. He says, "In America we have so many illegal Mexicans and Arabs that we don't have to drink with the same ones,twice."

Nishlord · Post by **Nishlord** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 2:40 pm

Can you tell a funny one next time? Something like;

"Derron's mother has a shell tattooed on her inner thigh. When you put your ear to it, you can smell the sea"

Luther · Post by **Luther** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 3:19 pm

I remember a friend of mine who pulled something like that off, Nish. His name was Buzzy. Buzzy was married but he had more girlfriends than the single guys.

At a party once, he had this long legged blonde gal in tow. After he'd had about 15 drinks, he puts his ear to her crotch and says, "I can hear the ocean."

Instantly I saw the flash of her right hand...she had quicker reflexes than Royce Gracie, the crispness of a freshly slapped face echoed around the room. It got very quiet. I was wondering who would speak first...it was Buzzy and he said,

..."Spank me I've been bad."

Rip City

Derron · Post by **Derron** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:16 pm

Can you tell a funny one next time? Something like;

"Derron's mother has a shell tattooed on her inner thigh. When you put your ear to it, you can smell the sea"

Bwwwaaahaaaaa... a fucking limey smacking an American on comedy....

Your fucking limeys wouldn't know comedy if you tried to pull it off.....

hell, since Benny Hill died, you guys roar over Masterpiece theater

tough love · Post by **tough love** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:32 pm

Bwwwaaahaaaaa... a fucking limey smacking an American on comedy....

Your fucking limeys wouldn't know comedy if you tried to pull it off.....

hell, since Benny Hill died, you guys roar over Masterpiece theater

BUZZZZZZZ
Some of the funniest shows on American tv originated in Britain.
From All In The Family, to The Office.

The Brits know funny.

Husker4ever · Post by **Husker4ever** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 11:43 pm

War Wagon wrote:
Husker4ever wrote: edit: I deal directly with "ICE" "INS" "DHS" or whatever you know it by. I also place immigration holds on illegal aliens who have committed violent crimes in this country.

From my experience, it must be okay to fuck 12 year olds in Mexico as well as get piss drunk and drive around banking off parked cars, crash into the front porch of the house you live in, and then go inside and beat the fuck piss out of the old lady to let her know her role in a traditional Mexican marriage.
Well, there we have it.

A complete and total synopsis of each and every "illegal" who inhabits this country.

You're an idiot.

Does your salary get paid by my tax dolllars?

I want it back.

Kind of like the way you think every illegal alien is a hardworking, productive kind of fella who only wants to send money back home errrr better himself?

Hypocrite much? Checks and balances....and someone has to present the other side of the arguement since you're content to suck wetback cock on this forum.

Husker4ever · Post by **Husker4ever** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 11:46 pm

RadioFan wrote:
Husker4ever wrote:I'm not following you here. You're excusing criminal acts because of the red tape of doing it legally?
What I'm saying is that for it to even be a "criminal act" is idiotic to begin with, when there's a market for it. Sort of like marijuana, from that standpoint. To quote Col. Potter: "Stupid rule. And stupid rules are meant to be broken." That's from a M*A*S*H episode, where it was against regulations to treat patients with Curare, in 1951 or whatever.

We make it incredibly difficult for people to immigrate LEGALLY into this country.

We are a market-driven economy.

This isn't rocket science, bro. Maybe if our guys weren't "working" so hard designing Web-based information systems with the ability censor political speech for China, or offloading cargo from Malaysia and China at Wal-Mart, we'd be able to protect our own borders better. Ain't happening anytime soon.

My condolences that you work in the federal beuracracy of acronyms, if that's what you do.

And make no mistake, the trolling on this and a lot of other boards aside, there is an element of racism in this issue, a strong, sickening one, from 99 percent of folks whose ancestors at one time or another here were the "cheap laborers," the ones who spoke that "foreign tongue," the ones who should "go home."

I said I'm for legal immigration. I'm ALL for it. I recognize corporate America's demand for cheap labor....I just want the muthafuckas screened properly before they work for shit wages down the street from me.

There needs to be controls and monitoring of them once they get here.

edit: Don't mean to come off like a prick on this topic but the firsthand experience I get in my job makes it personal. I'm intimately aware of how evil and vial a number of these illegal aliens are. Like I said, we got ALOT of the undesireables because they have no where else to turn to.