The Argument for Getting Out Now

[Mikey]

Iraq: Get out now
By William E. Odom

LT. GEN. WILLIAM E. ODOM (Ret.) is a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute and a professor at Yale University. A longer version of this article appears in the current issue of Foreign Policy magazine, http://www.foreignpolicy.com.


May 4, 2006

WITHDRAW immediately or stay the present course? That is the key question about the war in Iraq today.

American public opinion is decidedly against the war; even in the "red states," more than half of Americans want out. That sentiment is understandable.

The prewar dream of a liberal Iraqi democracy friendly to the United States is no longer credible. No Iraqi leader with enough power and legitimacy to control the country will be pro-American. Still, President Bush says the United States must stay the course. Why? Let's consider his administration's most popular arguments for not leaving Iraq.

• If we leave, there will be a civil war. In reality, a civil war in Iraq began just weeks after U.S. forces toppled Saddam Hussein. Even Bush, who is normally impervious to uncomfortable facts, recently admitted that Iraq has peered into the abyss of civil war. He ought to look a little closer. Iraqis are fighting Iraqis. Insurgents have killed far more Iraqis than Americans. That's civil war.

• Withdrawal will encourage the terrorists. True, but that is the price we are doomed to pay. Our occupation of Iraq also encourages the killers — precisely because our invasion made Iraq safe for them. Our occupation also left the surviving Baathists with a choice: Surrender, or ally with Al Qaeda. They chose the latter. Staying the course will not change this fact. Pulling out will most likely result in Sunni groups' turning against Al Qaeda and its sympathizers, driving them out of Iraq.

• Before U.S. forces stand down, Iraqi security forces must stand up. The problem in Iraq is not military competence. The problem is loyalty. To whom can Iraqi officers and troops afford to give their loyalty? The political camps in Iraq are still shifting. So every Iraqi soldier and officer risks choosing the wrong side. As a result, most choose to retain as much latitude as possible to switch allegiances. All the U.S. military trainers in the world cannot remove that reality. But political consolidation will. Political power can only be established via Iraqi guns and civil war, not through elections or U.S. colonialism by ventriloquism.

• Setting a withdrawal deadline will damage the morale of U.S. troops. Hiding behind the argument of troop morale shows no willingness to accept the responsibilities of command. The truth is, most wars would stop early if soldiers had the choice of whether to continue. This is certainly true in Iraq, where a withdrawal is likely to raise morale among U.S. forces. A recent Zogby poll suggests that most U.S. troops would welcome an early withdrawal deadline. But the strategic question of how to extract the United States from the Iraq disaster is not a matter to be decided by soldiers. Carl von Clausewitz spoke of two kinds of courage: first, bravery in the face of mortal danger; second, the willingness to accept personal responsibility for command decisions. The former is expected of the troops. The latter must be demanded of high-level commanders, including the president.

• Withdrawal would undermine U.S. credibility in the world. Were the United States a middling power, this case might hold some water. But for the world's only superpower, it's patently phony. A rapid reversal of our present course in Iraq would improve U.S. credibility around the world. The same argument was made against withdrawal from Vietnam. It was proved wrong then, and it would be proved wrong today. Since Sept. 11, 2001, the world's opinion of the United States has plummeted. The U.S. now garners as much international esteem as Russia. Withdrawing and admitting our mistake would reverse this trend. Very few countries have that kind of corrective capacity. We do.

Two facts, however painful, must be recognized, or we will remain perilously confused in Iraq. First, invading Iraq was not in the interests of the U.S. It was in the interests of Iran and Al Qaeda. For Iran, it avenged a grudge against Hussein for his invasion of the country in 1980. For Al Qaeda, it made it easier to kill Americans. Second, the war has paralyzed the U.S. in the world, diplomatically and strategically. Although relations with Europe show signs of marginal improvement, the transatlantic alliance still may not survive the war. Only with a rapid withdrawal from Iraq will Washington regain diplomatic and military mobility. Tied down like Gulliver in the sands of Mesopotamia, we simply cannot attract the diplomatic and military cooperation necessary to win the real battle against terror.

In fact, getting out now may be our only chance to set things right in Iraq. For starters, if we withdraw, European politicians would be more likely to cooperate with us in a strategy for stabilizing the greater Middle East. Following a withdrawal, all the countries bordering Iraq would likely respond favorably to an offer to help stabilize the situation. The most important of these would be Iran. It dislikes Al Qaeda as much as we do. It wants regional stability as much as we do. It wants to produce more oil and gas and sell it. If its leaders really want nuclear weapons, we cannot stop them. But we can engage them.

None of these prospects is possible unless we stop moving deeper into the "big sandy" of Iraq. America must withdraw now.

[Sirfindafold]

Withdrawal will encourage the terrorists. ...

Fuck it, Just let these fuckers go to Yale alongside that Taliban cocksucker.

What do you say William?

[BSmack]

Withdrawal will encourage the terrorists. ...

Fuck it, Just let these fuckers go to Yale alongside that Taliban cocksucker.

Did you just call Dubya a cocksucker?

[Sirfindafold]

Withdrawal will encourage the terrorists. ...

Fuck it, Just let these fuckers go to Yale alongside that Taliban cocksucker.

Did you just call Dubya a cocksucker?

Was/Is Dubya in the Taliban? No he wasn't/isn't.

go fuck yourself commie.

[BSmack]

Was/Is Dubya in the Taliban? No he wasn't/isn't.

go fuck yourself commie.

With replies like that, we don't have to worry about this thread going to the Spin Zone.

So, do you have first hand experience with Dubya's cocksucking?

[Y2K]

Since Sept. 11, 2001, the world's opinion of the United States has plummeted.

Well of course it has, The attacks in 2001 were only staged by the 20 muslims that actually hated the USA the rest welcomed the USA with open arms. Looking back into history I myself have seen nothing but love and respect for my country, damn having all those nuclear missles aimed at us was just a simple "show of respect" from the USSR. Japan and Germany's disrepect before and during WW2 was only a misunderstanding...Really

The Iraq war is going to make the world hate our country unlike any other time in history, mankind is doomed because of the consequences of our actions.

I can see it,

Cant you?

[Cicero]

^^

rack

[Luther]

Since Sept. 11, 2001, the world's opinion of the United States has plummeted.

Well of course it has, The attacks in 2001 were only staged by the 20 muslims that actually hated the USA the rest welcomed the USA with open arms. Looking back into history I myself have seen nothing but love and respect for my country, damn having all those nuclear missles aimed at us was just a simple "show of respect" from the USSR. Japan and Germany's disrepect before and during WW2 was only a misunderstanding...Really

The Iraq war is going to make the world hate our country unlike any other time in history, mankind is doomed because of the consequences of our actions.

I can see it,

Cant you?

Rack the hell out of this. I've seen you do this before Y, but this one brought a big smile on my face.

I still remember that long thread at TNW where I posted that picture of all the rejoicing Palestinians the day after 9-11, wearing all that Nike/Addidas/Old Navy sportswear.

Everybody just needs to travel some. Everytime I'm on that big old 747 heading back to the big Satan, I think how fucking lucky we are. Fuck 'em.

Rip City

[P.I.G.]

We gotta stay over there.

And with the heat of summer coming on, it's time to send in more black troops...seeing as to how Dusty Baker says that they can handle the sun better than a white man.

He's absolutely right.....let's send them over in droves.

you need to have your ass beat, punk.

[Jack]

What we need is a clear objective.

Once that clear objective is stated, a good plan must follow.

I don't think it is wise to just pack up and go right now...

You have to think long term. My feelings are, we need a larger force over there, which should have been there from the start..

Control the areas that you can, and there are many and isolate the cells of terror ...

Leaving right now would do more harm than good because we will be back very soon after we leave if we don't leave IRAQ in some state of control.

[Eaglebauer]

Since Sept. 11, 2001, the world's opinion of the United States has plummeted.

Well of course it has, The attacks in 2001 were only staged by the 20 muslims that actually hated the USA the rest welcomed the USA with open arms. Looking back into history I myself have seen nothing but love and respect for my country, damn having all those nuclear missles aimed at us was just a simple "show of respect" from the USSR. Japan and Germany's disrepect before and during WW2 was only a misunderstanding...Really

The Iraq war is going to make the world hate our country unlike any other time in history, mankind is doomed because of the consequences of our actions.

I can see it,

Cant you?

Iraq = Germany, Japan, USSR

[OCmike]

With replies like that, we don't have to worry about this thread going to the Spin Zone.

And with replies from Eaglebauer, you can rest assured that it'll stay here as well.

[Spinach Genie]

• If we leave, there will be a civil war. In reality, a civil war in Iraq began just weeks after U.S. forces toppled Saddam Hussein. Even Bush, who is normally impervious to uncomfortable facts, recently admitted that Iraq has peered into the abyss of civil war. He ought to look a little closer. Iraqis are fighting Iraqis. Insurgents have killed far more Iraqis than Americans. That's civil war.

How many of these "Iraqis fighting Iraqis" are recruited terrorista thugs from Iran, Syria, Egypt, Palestine, etc? Of course they're killing Iraqis, and he's spelling their vision. We pack and leave, the region becomes destabilized, removing our presence in the middle east and valuable land and resources fall into the hands of what were before scattered bands of desperate bomb hurlers transforming them into a very real potential threat right on the doorstep of a sympathetic enemy who is desperately trying to develop a nuclear arsenal.

• Withdrawal will encourage the terrorists. True, but that is the price we are doomed to pay. Our occupation of Iraq also encourages the killers — precisely because our invasion made Iraq safe for them. Our occupation also left the surviving Baathists with a choice: Surrender, or ally with Al Qaeda. They chose the latter. Staying the course will not change this fact. Pulling out will most likely result in Sunni groups' turning against Al Qaeda and its sympathizers, driving them out of Iraq.

I suppose this genius hasn't already seen the public tide starting to falter against the insurgents. The Iraqi people aren't going to watch their own die by insurgent hands forever. The rebellious factions of Iraqi have already shown some dissension with terrorist elements and that will only grow.

• Before U.S. forces stand down, Iraqi security forces must stand up. The problem in Iraq is not military competence. The problem is loyalty. To whom can Iraqi officers and troops afford to give their loyalty? The political camps in Iraq are still shifting. So every Iraqi soldier and officer risks choosing the wrong side. As a result, most choose to retain as much latitude as possible to switch allegiances. All the U.S. military trainers in the world cannot remove that reality. But political consolidation will. Political power can only be established via Iraqi guns and civil war, not through elections or U.S. colonialism by ventriloquism.

Interesting, but we're what...three years into this thing and what exactly does he expect? The more it becomes apparent to Iraqis that they have a much bigger enemy than the US, the more problems of recruitment and training will improve.

• Setting a withdrawal deadline will damage the morale of U.S. troops. Hiding behind the argument of troop morale shows no willingness to accept the responsibilities of command. The truth is, most wars would stop early if soldiers had the choice of whether to continue. This is certainly true in Iraq, where a withdrawal is likely to raise morale among U.S. forces. A recent Zogby poll suggests that most U.S. troops would welcome an early withdrawal deadline. But the strategic question of how to extract the United States from the Iraq disaster is not a matter to be decided by soldiers. Carl von Clausewitz spoke of two kinds of courage: first, bravery in the face of mortal danger; second, the willingness to accept personal responsibility for command decisions. The former is expected of the troops. The latter must be demanded of high-level commanders, including the president.

I've known a few soldiers in my day, and I have to wonder what sort of soldier this guy is to think this. In any case, I haven't really heard this argument from anyone.

• Withdrawal would undermine U.S. credibility in the world. Were the United States a middling power, this case might hold some water. But for the world's only superpower, it's patently phony. A rapid reversal of our present course in Iraq would improve U.S. credibility around the world. The same argument was made against withdrawal from Vietnam. It was proved wrong then, and it would be proved wrong today. Since Sept. 11, 2001, the world's opinion of the United States has plummeted. The U.S. now garners as much international esteem as Russia. Withdrawing and admitting our mistake would reverse this trend. Very few countries have that kind of corrective capacity. We do.

Take a look at the trickiest issues of foreign policy America faces today. Iran. North Korea. China. Islamic fanaticism. Consider how emboldened Al Queda became after we turned tail in Somalia. Consider how this grew stronger after repeatedly failing to address ongoing terrorist action like the embassy bombings, first trade center bombing and the Cole. Our credibility with the Europeans is not and should not be our first concern. There are some very potentially dangerous waves building out there, and removing such a vital part of our presence in the middle east would send a signal and a shockwave that could result in far more frightening ends than anything we're seeing in Iraq.

Two facts, however painful, must be recognized, or we will remain perilously confused in Iraq. First, invading Iraq was not in the interests of the U.S. It was in the interests of Iran and Al Qaeda. For Iran, it avenged a grudge against Hussein for his invasion of the country in 1980. For Al Qaeda, it made it easier to kill Americans. Second, the war has paralyzed the U.S. in the world, diplomatically and strategically. Although relations with Europe show signs of marginal improvement, the transatlantic alliance still may not survive the war. Only with a rapid withdrawal from Iraq will Washington regain diplomatic and military mobility. Tied down like Gulliver in the sands of Mesopotamia, we simply cannot attract the diplomatic and military cooperation necessary to win the real battle against terror.

Again, why do these lefties place so much importance on appeasement of Europe? Europe's interests will always ultimately lead them back to our side. The alternative is extremists, opression and quite possibly the destruction of the western world. Iran, in particularly, will clearly illustrate exactly why our presence in Iraq is so vital going on into the future...and I think even as much as they don't like it, even the most left of the Euros see this...with the possible exception of Russia, who has always been a wild card.

In fact, getting out now may be our only chance to set things right in Iraq. For starters, if we withdraw, European politicians would be more likely to cooperate with us in a strategy for stabilizing the greater Middle East. Following a withdrawal, all the countries bordering Iraq would likely respond favorably to an offer to help stabilize the situation. The most important of these would be Iran. It dislikes Al Qaeda as much as we do. It wants regional stability as much as we do. It wants to produce more oil and gas and sell it. If its leaders really want nuclear weapons, we cannot stop them. But we can engage them.

Now I know this douchebag is an idiot. Iran? Can this moron not clearly see the writing on the wall with Iran? I'm sure the Euros would be more than happy to form a committee to bicker until the earth's end about what to do in Iraq should we withdraw, but we've clearly seen how well that worked in the past...and time is of the essence.

None of these prospects is possible unless we stop moving deeper into the "big sandy" of Iraq. America must withdraw now.

Seriously, who the fuck is this asshead?

[Y2K]

SG........

He's.............
a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute and a professor at Yale University.

According to another uber important "you are supposed to be impressed because I'm so educated" kinda arrogant dipshit, this guys opinion is gold. They don't buy into the ole "opinions are like assholes" theory because they think they are so much smarter than the next guy.

Real people understand they are just another guy with a job but he probably gave some media dude a good grade so he gets some free run.....

[poptart]

Everybody just needs to travel some. Everytime I'm on that big old 747 heading back to the big Satan, I think how fucking lucky we are. Fuck 'em.

RACK

[PSUFAN]

Yeah, we'll take that under advisement....dipshit.

- say hi to the joint chiefs, hmmmkay?

[Cicero]

Everybody just needs to travel some. Everytime I'm on that big old 747 heading back to the big Satan, I think how fucking lucky we are. Fuck 'em.

RACK

2nd

[BSmack]

Everybody just needs to travel some. Everytime I'm on that big old 747 heading back to the big Satan, I think how fucking lucky we are. Fuck 'em.

Rip City

You don't need a 747. I feel that way driving back accross the Peace Bridge from Canada. And I LIKE Canada. But home is home, and it is always good to go back.