T1B

I'm fucking sick of it. especially in young people today who were like 5 years old when this wicked prank on good music was played. i get them in my classes ("i love everything 80's!") and hear them on the bus. maybe we can invade Panama and de-pose that "Panamanian Strongman" Noriega again.

everywhere i turn around i gotta hear Come on Eileen or some other half-assed made for MTV crap....when i walk around the campus neighborhoods.

MTV was an ENEMY of music in the 80's.

MTV was fresh until about 83. Once Duran Duran broke it was all downhill as the big labels realized they could use video to package damn near anything. But I must confess to enjoying the first year or so of my first exposure to groups like The Boomtown Rats, The Vapors, The English Beat, Squeeze...

For a 15 year old kid who had previously only listened to AOR and Top 40, it was a wakeup call that there was more than the same old same old out there. It's just a damn shame that MTV couldn't continue to deliver it.

It's funny that the kids nowadays have NO IDEA that MTV even used to play music videos.

BSmack wrote: But I must confess to enjoying the first year or so of my first exposure to groups like The Boomtown Rats, The Vapors, The English Beat, Squeeze...

i'll give you that. that's true.

Elvis Costello: what's so funny( bout..)...was in rotation as well.

mtv was dope untile they started playing commercials

The worst part is, after this whole New Wave retro craze has passed, the hair metal era is up next.

I think BSmack pretty much nailed it.

I suppose the young'uns probably don't realize that in its infancy, MTV was very new wave/alternative oriented, and really didn't do the "pop" thing. How times have changed.

Duran Duran and Madonna ruined a good thing.

And then the heesey dance-pop thing started. And then the buttrockers. And then the "fuck, I'd give anything to have been born in Seattle" thing started. Then the "I'm a white kid from the burbs, but this 'music' makes me street."

Where will it end?

King Crimson wrote:I'm fucking sick of it. especially in young people today who were like 5 years old when this wicked prank on good music was played. i get them in my classes ("i love everything 80's!") and hear them on the bus. maybe we can invade Panama and de-pose that "Panamanian Strongman" Noriega again.

everywhere i turn around i gotta hear Come on Eileen or some other half-assed made for MTV crap....when i walk around the campus neighborhoods.

MTV was an ENEMY of music in the 80's.

RACK!

You fucked up a perfectly good thread JaysFan. I'm trying to listen to A Tonic For The Troops and now I've got to speed scroll to your fucking post to stop that God awful fucking midi file?

BSmack wrote:You fucked up a perfectly good thread JaysFan. I'm trying to listen to A Tonic For The Troops and now I've got to speed scroll to your fucking post to stop that God awful fucking midi file?

Better?

JaysFan wrote:

BSmack wrote:You fucked up a perfectly good thread JaysFan. I'm trying to listen to A Tonic For The Troops and now I've got to speed scroll to your fucking post to stop that God awful fucking midi file?

Better?

Much

WAR Don Kirshner's Rock Concert and Nightflight.

war the young ones

WAR the Headbangers Ball

WAR HBO's Video Jukebox:

Stray Cats, Juice Newton, Sheena Easton....

WAR IRS - The Cutting Edge, and 120 Minutes.

WAR GYJO to Nina Blackwood

what was the dude's name who hosting IRS....Peter Zaremba? he was in the Fleshtones. i had one of their records...it had like two good songs.

I remember MTV and how they wouldn't play any music by artists who weren't lilly white and they fought putting Michael Jackson on during the height of his solo career. Seeing as how the channel sucks now, I wish they would readopt that rule and yank all of the crappy rappers and shitty r and b artists who populate that hole now.

The saddest thing for me about early MTV was a fat token VJ spook named JJ Jackson trying to defend MTV's refusal to play music by black artists and he held onto the belief that MTV only played rock music (what the fuck were the Buggles if not pure pop synth crap?) and that no black artists did rock music. I heard him say that back then and pretty recently too and I want to kick him in his nuts until he vomits.

Invictus wrote:they fought putting Michael Jackson on during the height of his solo career.

Yeah, if only they would have played anything from Thriller just a little more. Maybe featured it on one of those "World Premiere" thingies...

Is your real job title "revisionist historian," Vic?

While you might have a valid point in there somewhere, that was so unthough-out, and inaccurate, it sucked.

Maybe try typing what you actually meant to say next time. Or, did you really mean that Thriller wasn't the "peak" of Jacko's solo career? Before you answer, consider what the #1 selling album in the history of the universe is, mkay?


Although, the first year or two of MTV was about as white as white gets...on this we agree. Hell, for that matter, it was rare they ever showed any American acts...pretty much damn-near all euro.

i remember the bus boys, living colour (vernon reid)....i don't think eddie grant counts

mothster wrote:i remember the bus boys, living colour (vernon reid)....i don't think eddie grant counts

That was all post-Jacko...not the "early days."

Dinsdale wrote:WAR the Headbangers Ball

Yes and no. Granted, it was the only place to see videos by real metal bands, but UNWAR having to sit through 2 1/2 hours of White Lion, Enuff Z'Nuff, Jetboy, etc. just for the token Kreator or Overkill video. I always wished they would've just devoted a 30 minute block of the show to thrash metal. It would've made my life a lot easier. Eventually I just started taping it so I could FF through all the garbage to get to the 4 or 5 good videos.

I never got to see MTV while growing up. We had the Canadian version, Much Music. I used to like the metal show and every Friday they had an "alternative" hour called "City Limits". Got to see videos by bands like They Might Be Giants and The Replacements, so I never missed it.

I am forced to rack Dinsdale. There was some scarcity of MJ on MTV, ever? Fucking baloney.

Dinsdale wrote:

Invictus wrote:they fought putting Michael Jackson on during the height of his solo career.

Yeah, if only they would have played anything from Thriller just a little more. Maybe featured it on one of those "World Premiere" thingies...

Is your real job title "revisionist historian," Vic?

While you might have a valid point in there somewhere, that was so unthough-out, and inaccurate, it sucked.

Maybe try typing what you actually meant to say next time. Or, did you really mean that Thriller wasn't the "peak" of Jacko's solo career? Before you answer, consider what the #1 selling album in the history of the universe is, mkay?


Although, the first year or two of MTV was about as white as white gets...on this we agree. Hell, for that matter, it was rare they ever showed any American acts...pretty much damn-near all euro.

It is well documented that in its beginning MTV DID NOT want to play any music by black artists. Period. If you dispute that, then you are a Revisionist Historian. Billie Jean did not get run on MTV early on because it was too black. You can go type in JJ Jackson and I am sure Google will direct you to his comments where he has ardently defended MTV's early decision not to play stuff because they deemed it not rock music/too black. Sure, they got on the bandwagon once they saw how big the album was going to be and nimrods like you think that the station was always a friendly market for MJ. Not the case. Before you attempt to dig in my ass, do a little research. Sometimes even the omniscient and omnipotent are prone to putting their foot in their asses.

Just sayin'

Here let me help you:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=& ... 2racism%22

Back in 1981, Rick James accused MTV of racism because the network wouln't play his "Super Freak" video, thus impeding the sales. Whether or not Rick's charges were valid (P.S. they were),

And, look at this tidbit from mtv itself:
http://www.mtv.com/music/artist/jackson ... /bio.jhtml

Having never really accepted black artists in the past, MTV played the clips to death...

Here is some more for you:
http://www.avclub.com/content/node/22909

When MTV made its debut in 1981, its refusal to play black artists was readily apparent. The Vibe History Of Hip Hop recalls that when Epic Records submitted Michael Jackson's landmark "Beat It" video to MTV, the station told the label that the video just wasn't good enough to be shown on the fledging cable channel. Adding insult to injury, most of the videos MTV did play at the time—whether from Taco or The Buggles, or even the estimable Billy Squier—paled in comparison to Jackson's flashy, groundbreaking work.

And, from the same article a little further down:

In The Vibe History Of Hip Hop, early MTV personality J.J. Jackson defends the station's decision not to run many videos by blacks, saying, "MTV is a rock 'n' roll station. You think Donna Summer, Prince, and Rick James are rock 'n' roll? I don't... Someone has to decide what the cutoff point is going to be. And people who don't agree with that particular cutoff point are going to be a little angry."

The Beat It video was the height of MJ's career and yet, MTV refused to play it? Hmmmm... Eddie Van Halen played guitar on that fucking song and that song was NOT rock and roll? Give me a fucking break.

Dins, you and PSU are welcome.

Geez - I guess that was another MTV that I saw "Beat It" on far too many times.

In The Vibe History Of Hip Hop, early MTV personality J.J. Jackson defends the station's decision not to run many videos by blacks, saying, "MTV is a rock 'n' roll station. You think Donna Summer, Prince, and Rick James are rock 'n' roll? I don't... Someone has to decide what the cutoff point is going to be. And people who don't agree with that particular cutoff point are going to be a little angry."

Sounds spot on to me. Jackson was right that early MTV was a rock station. And quite frankly, when they started trying to cater to every musical taste, they lost their focus and started sucking.

Yikes.

Do you have shit stains on your brain as well as in your panties? You CAN read can't you? Look again at what I typed. Please really read it and then let this topic go. You can't possibly have anything else to say to me. I can only hope Dinsy will do the same but I know he won't.

PSU, you would be well served to sit this one out.

Invictus wrote:Look again at what I typed. Please really read it and then let this topic go.

How old were you in 1982?

BSmack wrote:

In The Vibe History Of Hip Hop, early MTV personality J.J. Jackson defends the station's decision not to run many videos by blacks, saying, "MTV is a rock 'n' roll station. You think Donna Summer, Prince, and Rick James are rock 'n' roll? I don't... Someone has to decide what the cutoff point is going to be. And people who don't agree with that particular cutoff point are going to be a little angry."

Sounds spot on to me. Jackson was right that early MTV was a rock station. And quite frankly, when they started trying to cater to every musical taste, they lost their focus and started sucking.

So, was Taco or the Bugles anymore more rock and roll than Prince or Rick James? Rick James played with a certain Bob Dylan many years prior who is most certainly a ROCK AND ROLL ICON and Prince had electric guitar in ALL of his stuff from 1983 on back. Rick played electric guitar too. I watched MTV all the time when I was younger and Taco and the Bugles were about sythesizers and not much else. Not very "rock station" to me. Can you honestly tell me that Prince and Rick James were NOT rock and roll musicians? Early MTV was never about rock, they played popular music mostly with SOME rock tossed in to make them seem cutting edge, much like now, except they play rap and rock and roll to seem cutting edge.

C'mon B, as a whiny, bed wetting liberal, you should have more sense than to try to defend early MTV.

BSmack wrote:

Invictus wrote:Look again at what I typed. Please really read it and then let this topic go.

How old were you in 1982?

Why is that important?

I was old enough to watch MTV and remember what they played. Now what else do you want to know?

Invictus wrote:So, was Taco or the Bugles anymore more rock and roll than Prince or Rick James? Rick James played with a certain Bob Dylan many years prior who is most certainly a ROCK AND ROLL ICON and Prince had electric guitar in ALL of his stuff from 1983 on back. Rick played electric guitar too. I watched MTV all the time when I was younger and Taco and the Bugles were about sythesizers and not much else. Not very "rock station" to me. Can you honestly tell me that Prince and Rick James were NOT rock and roll musicians? Early MTV was never about rock, they played popular music mostly with SOME rock tossed in to make them seem cutting edge, much like now, except they play rap and rock and roll to seem cutting edge.

Early MTV was about rock, ska, new wave and what later became titled the "New Romantic" movement in England. To a lesser degree they also played established AOR artists who bothered to drop videos (Queen, Van Halen, Springsteen) and up and comming pop metal bands. That was the early MTV I remember. And no, those artists don't exactly go hand in glove with the creators of "Superfreak" or "Billie Jean". Which is why I asked you how old you were in 1982. Because by what you are typing, I'm guessing you couldn't have been over the age of 7.

I was over the age of 7 and was old enough to appreciate what I was watching. I just dug the station for things I had not been exposed to growing up where I did.

So let me understand something. A song like "Beat It," with its driving guitar bass line would not be considered rock? Just curious. How do you define rock versus pop music?

Invictus wrote:Dins, you and PSU are welcome.

For cementing the fact that you(and others, apparently) are revisionist historians?

OK, thanks...I guess.


Sorry, I'm not buying this, for the simple reason that it's complete bullshit.

Before you attempt to dig in my ass, do a little research.

Let me explain a little sumpm-sumpm to you...there's not a whole hell of a lot of research required here. What you should have figured out from this thread, is that there's people here older than you, who actually remember the early days of MTV, and don't have to rely on bullshit revisionist history to try and make a mountain out of a molehill.

How ols were you in August 1981 (when MTV made its debut, and coincidentally, the same month my family got cable), Vic? 6? 7? Maybe even 8?

Sorry if I'm not going to call on you to be the end-all, be-all source for MTV history. What you're relying on (inaccurate) links for, I was sitting there watching, bud. So don't try and sit there telling me what I saw. Not going to work, regardless how much bullshit Google turns up(think that one through). Google also tells me that the earth was secretly invaded by a master alien race in 2002. C'mon, now.

But, it's nice to see you've found others who are willing to tell flat-out mistruths to try and make a big deal out of this.

When MTV made its debut in 1981, its refusal to play black artists was readily apparent. The Vibe History Of Hip Hop recalls that when Epic Records submitted Michael Jackson's landmark "Beat It" video to MTV, the station told the label that the video just wasn't good enough to be shown on the fledging cable channel.

Uhm...hello?

Bueller? Class? Anyone?

Uhm....newsflash....Thriller wasn't fucking released in 1981. It was released in 1982...about the same time that the "fledgling cable channel" was sorting out its identity crisis, and made the decision to play more in the way of pop/R&B/dance music.

Newsflash, muckstirrer -- they also didn't play Madonna and David Bowie until that time.

Maybe it's not so muuch a matter of "racism," but more a prejudice against shitty fucking music (sup Thriller).

Although it's rare to find any subject that certain people won't make "all about the racial." Just ask IB...and I find it sad that Vic has resorted to IB tactics to rewrite the history books on this one.


And before you stick your foot any farther up your own ass Vic, let's review some REAL history (albeit much more recent). Bear in mind, this is from this very thread, BEFORE the "all about6 the racial" thing came up:

Dinsdale wrote:I suppose the young'uns probably don't realize that in its infancy, MTV was very new wave/alternative oriented, and really didn't do the "pop" thing.

So, before you fucking clown yourself any worse, would you care to name for me the prominant "black" new wave/ alternative bands from the era of 1981 and earlier?

C'mon Vic...put me in my place...end this right now and send me packing...just go ahead and remind me of these black new wave/alternative/industrial bands that the world was rife with before 1982?

Go ahead, fire away.

Or not...and maybe realize that you've just been flat fucking LIED to, my friend. Whether some retarded Google link says so or not, MTV was VERY much an alternative/new wave station in their infancy. And since by my count, there were approximately ZERO black alternative bands kicking around in 1981 (save for a black guy or two in the Specials)...

sorry, dude. You've bought into some SERIOUS bullshit. I hate to shatter your illusions, but it's the TRUTH.

And on the very day that MTV's format broadened, which is attributable to more pop/dance/R&B/hard rock artists making videos(and not some Jesse Jackson bullshit), rather than some massive racial conspiracy? That doesn't even make sense....if it was to be a strictly white station for strictly white people, then why the hell would they hire an Uncle Tom to host the show? That would defy any and all logic, would it not?

You're flailing hard here, Vic.

BSmack wrote:they also played established AOR artists who bothered to drop videos (Queen, Van Halen, Springsteen)

Nope.

Queen's Bohemian Rhapsody was on board from the get-go, Halen and Springsteen were not...meaning OF COURSE, that MTV is also bigotted against people from california and New Jersey...OBVIOUSLY.

What, don't believe me? Give me a minute, and I'm sure I can find a Google link to support this.


But BSmack, I think you're actually missing the point here -- the period Vic is referring to, when MTV "refused to play black artists"...we're talking about a stretch of less than 12 months.

No, really...that's reallyreally the point Vic's trying to bring up...less than 12 fucking months...one year. Yet somehow, 25 years after the fact, this is being made into a huge racial conspiracy, rather than a fledgling cable channel, sorting out its place in a brave new world, mulling over what it wanted its format to be in a medium that the world had never really seen before.


[devil's advocate]And what if there was this massive racial conspiracy? Were telecom companies REALLY spending all of their time and effort wiring the projects up with coax cable? Think about that one for a while...maybe this "massive racial conspiracy" IS true, and MTV was only doing what it needed to do to finacially survive...think about that one...then dismiss it, because it's the same crock of shit you're trying to argue...but think about it anyway.[/devil's advocate]

Invictus wrote:I was over the age of 7

So, were you lying about your age when you've brought it up in the past, or are you lying about your age now?

Just wondering...since you're patted yourself on the back in the past for being so much younger than me...

You're 33 or over now?

Invictus wrote:I was over the age of 7 and was old enough to appreciate what I was watching.

So you were 8. OK, now we know.

I just dug the station for things I had not been exposed to growing up where I did.

Same here.

So let me understand something. A song like "Beat It," with its driving guitar bass line would not be considered rock? Just curious. How do you define rock versus pop music?

"Beat It" was a steaming pile of crap that only looks slightly better in the wake of the utter garbage the King of Pedos has released since. And the video was even worse. Seriously, if I want to watch a bunch of degenerate fags play "West Side Story" I'll.. well, I'll watch that stupid fucking video.

There's a rule. If you have spandex wearing dancers pretending to be the Jets and the Sharks, it ain't rock music.

And no, I don't care that Van Halen played a solo in that song. In case you missed the news flash, the last great VH album was recorded in 1981 and EVH was already plotting the firing of David Lee Roth and his full throttle journey down the highway of suck. There was nothing fresh or innovative about that solo unless you consider a 40 second guitar solo that sounds nothing at all like anything else on the record to be "innovative". In fact, the only worse thing EVH has ever done was his solo in "Jump".

Dinsdale wrote:Queen's Bohemian Rhapsody was on board from the get-go, Halen and Springsteen were not...meaning OF COURSE, that MTV is also bigotted against people from california and New Jersey...OBVIOUSLY.

Van Halen had Unchained and Springsteen had Rosalita. Of course both were live concert videos, not proper "music videos". But by 82, VH had released a video for Intruder/Oh Pretty Woman that got substantial run on MTV. And Springsteen didn't have any new album material until late 82, which was the decidedly non commercial "Nebraska" album.

What, don't believe me? Give me a minute, and I'm sure I can find a Google link to support this. But BSmack, I think you're actually missing the point here -- the period Vic is referring to, when MTV "refused to play black artists"...we're talking about a stretch of less than 12 months.

No, really...that's reallyreally the point Vic's trying to bring up...less than 12 fucking months...one year. Yet somehow, 25 years after the fact, this is being made into a huge racial conspiracy, rather than a fledgling cable channel, sorting out its place in a brave new world, mulling over what it wanted its format to be in a medium that the world had never really seen before.

[devil's advocate]And what if there was this massive racial conspiracy? Were telecom companies REALLY spending all of their time and effort wiring the projects up with coax cable? Think about that one for a while...maybe this "massive racial conspiracy" IS true, and MTV was only doing what it needed to do to finacially survive...think about that one...then dismiss it, because it's the same crock of shit you're trying to argue...but think about it anyway.[/devil's advocate]

The conspiracy thing is bullshit. I think we both agree. The only conspiracy going on at MTV was a conspiracy for profits. In the late 70s and early 80s, everybody was fighting for the suburban teenager's spending money. So MTV played bands they thought would appeal to those kids. End of fucking conspiracy.