English as the official language of the U.S.

[The Seer]

The only Democrats in the Senate that voted in favor of the Bill:

Baucus
Byrd
Carpen
Conrad
Dorgan
Johnson
Landrieu
Lincoln
Nelson
Nelson
Pryor

The only Republican in the Senate that voted against the Bill:

Domenicci


Unbelievable....

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

I'm all for Americans learning English.

[Cicero]

English should be the official language. Should have been enforced 50-60 years before the country became polluted w/ illegals.

[Terry in Crapchester]

Maybe I'm horribly naive here, but I always thought English already was the official language of the U.S. After all, don't we transact all official government business in English? I know the court systems do.

So tell me, what exactly would this bill do? I don't think we should be sending the police around to every household to ensure that English, and only English, is spoken there. I do think that people who intend to make this country their home should learn English, but that's primarily for their own benefit.

[Mikey]

Whatever happened to changing the official name of french fries to Freedom Fries? I can't believe that McDonalds is still marketing those unpatriotic grease bombs.

[Cicero]

English needs to be made the official language under law before the country is overran by Hispanics, thus making half of the US, Spanish. If we dont force them to learn English, they wont.

[Dinsdale]

Maybe I'm horribly naive here....I do think that people who intend to make this country their home should learn English, but that's primarily for their own benefit.

I doubt it's from naivete, but I'm guessing your neck of the woods isn't quite as inundated with Mexicans/illegals as other places.

It's not for their own benefit. It's for everyone's. Round these parts(and I'm sure the situation is even more prominant in places like cali, Arizona, MN, and TX), every government pamphlet is available in Spanish. Every instruction/sign/whatever in a government building is in Spanish. Any Hispanic can demand a court interperter at the taxpayers' expense. Just about every single DMV worker around here is Mexican, since all DMV employees must speak Spanish.

And so on, and so forth. All on my dime.

Shit ain't right.

[Terry in Crapchester]

Any Hispanic can demand a court interperter at the taxpayers' expense.

This, I'm aware of. You can get a court interpreter at the taxpayers' expense in these parts as well. We have Hispanics here, but the majority of them are Puerto Rican, not Mexican, so you don't have the illegal immigrant component as a significant factor here.

That having been said, when it comes to court interpreters, the God's honest truth is that I personally have seen more requests in court for American Sign Language interpreters than for Spanish interpreters. This are has a relatively sizeable contingent of deaf/hearing impaired people living here.

[Dinsdale]

That having been said, when it comes to court interpreters, the God's honest truth is that I personally have seen more requests in court for American Sign Language interpreters than for Spanish interpreters.

Wow. That would be cool.

In my county, they don't have to request an Spanish interperter anymore...there's one full time in the courtroom.

Since in the county I live in, the census says it's ~15% Hispanic(with illegals, I'm sure it's closer to 20%), and something like 85+% of all crimes are committed by Mexicans (or the ones resulting in convictions, anyway).


Maybe if they spoke the fucking language, then they'd feel some sort of sense of community, and stop their quest to turn my home into the same shithole that they moved from.

I've just about had it with the Mexicans. Might be time for a little vigilanteism, since the government refuses to protect the People (one of the reasons we have an inalienable Right to bear arms...when the government is no longer willing/able to protect us). And ignoring an ungodly rampant crime problem amongst the Mexican community here is a failure of the government.

'Bout to be open season on beaners around here.

[Mikey]

I'm really surprised that you all are so gung ho on this. It seems like such a French thing to do...legally ensuring the purity of the language and all that.

Actually, after reading the piece I've copied below I'm sort of coming around on it myself, 'cause now we can go ahead and ban Ebonics, Valley Girl talk, and any dialect with origins below the Mason-Dixon line. While we're at it, can we make butchering the "American" English language an impeachable offense?

American spoken here
If English is the national language, Valley Girls must adapt.
By David Eggenschwiler
DAVID EGGENSCHWILER is a professor emeritus of English at USC.

May 24, 2006

FOLLOWING 27 states, the U.S. Senate has voted to establish English symbolically as either our "national" or "common and unifying" language. Although about a third of the Senate voted "no" on the two amendments to the immigration bill, with some lawmakers calling one measure racist, I say that it does not go far enough.

Which English? we should ask. Just anybody's? I think not.

In the 17th century, the Academie Francaise was established to create a national language. Was Cardinal Richelieu, who headed it, satisfied merely to declare it French? That would hardly have befitted the loyal citizens of Louis XIII, let alone those of the Sun King, who followed him on the throne.

The mission of the academy was first to standardize the language; to bring the French together under royal rule, especially the pesky Protestant Huguenots, tainted as they were by their German-Swiss origins and, of course, their southern French language. Second, the academy was to purify the language; to rid it of gross variants that suited neither the taste of the court nor the dignity of les Parisiens.

The success of the project explains why, today, the French refuse to understand my schoolboy's French and why the English proudly insist on speaking French so badly.

Real Americans don't speak it at all, or any other foreign language for that matter (except that of computers). A college student of mine irately asked why, in "Lolita," did Russian-German-French-American Vladimir Nabokov have to use so many foreign words that she didn't understand. Ignorance is not only bliss but also patriotism.

Although the French have been quite unpopular in the United States because of their unwillingness to join the "coalition of the willing" in Iraq, we might yet learn from their glorious past of the politics and aesthetics of language. And let us also have what John Dryden said that Chaucer had: "a well of English undefiled."

If we cannot bring back the purity of the 14th century southeast Midland dialect — the language of Chaucer's court, his government and the Church of England — let us then have our own pure American English for the cohesion of our realm and the purity of our vital essences.

Let us have the national, common language of Walter Cronkite and Dan Rather. Let us proudly speak a pure American English undefiled by Spanglish, Ebonics, Valley Girl lilts or any dialect spoken south of the Mason-Dixon Line. Let it be an English spoken inside the Beltway, an English of our leaders, an English to unify the red states, the blue states and, above all, the white states.

Let's use our pure language to put more unum in the pluribus.

Then let's have someone teach it to our president so that he can lead properly as the Sun King did. Vive la langue Americain.

[BSmack]

English needs to be made the official language under law before the country is overran by Hispanics, thus making half of the US, Spanish. If we dont force them to learn English, they wont.

Making English the de jure as well as the de facto official language will not stop illegals from crossing the border, no more than making Latin the official language of Rome stopped the Visigoths and Vandals from their incursions.

[BSmack]

That isn't what its supposed to do, idiot.

Then what is it supposed to do? Make illegals speak English? Give me a fucking break. That shit isn't going to be happening.

One of these days you will realize that the only sustainable way to stop illegals is to make Mexico a place worth staying in. Putting up walls and crafting legislation designed to further marginalize those who are here is a waste of fucking time.

[BSmack]

That isn't what its supposed to do, idiot.

Then what is it supposed to do?

Spare taxpayers the expense of supporting bilingual requirements, you fucking moron.

Talk about a fuckin strawman.

[Terry in Crapchester]

That isn't what its supposed to do, idiot.

Then what is it supposed to do?

Spare taxpayers the expense of supporting bilingual requirements, you fucking moron.

If that's the case, I have a suggestion . . .

mvscal teaches ESL classes for illegals.

[SunCoastSooner]

Then what is it supposed to do?

Spare taxpayers the expense of supporting bilingual requirements, you fucking moron.

If that's the case, I have a suggestion . . .

mvscal teaches ESL classes for illegals.

Why don't you just hand out glocks to postal workers?

[BSmack]

Then what is it supposed to do?

Spare taxpayers the expense of supporting bilingual requirements, you fucking moron.

If that's the case, I have a suggestion . . .

mvscal teaches ESL classes for illegals.

Never mind that. How about telling the court about all the convictions that would be overturned if defendants were not given interpreters.

Once again, reality smashes square in the face of GOP rhetoric.

[BSmack]

How about telling the court about all the convictions that would be overturned if defendants were not given interpreters.

Nice try, douche.

I could tell by your stunning lack of a rebuttal.

[OCmike]

That isn't what its supposed to do, idiot.

One of these days you will realize that the only sustainable way to stop illegals is to make Mexico a place worth staying in. Putting up walls and crafting legislation designed to further marginalize those who are here is a waste of fucking time.

You're 100% right. Problem is, it'll never happen; not from within and not with any hundreds of billions of dollars on our end. No only is Mexico crippled by rampant political corruption and bribery, but it's effectively a lawless nation run by drug lords and drug money. Now you tell me, Mr. Solution, how much money and how many genenerations will it take to fix that problem? In the meantime, a border fence, workplace enforcement and deportations of criminals are looking mighty attractive.

[BSmack]

That isn't what its supposed to do, idiot.

One of these days you will realize that the only sustainable way to stop illegals is to make Mexico a place worth staying in. Putting up walls and crafting legislation designed to further marginalize those who are here is a waste of fucking time.

You're 100% right. Problem is, it'll never happen; not from within and not with any hundreds of billions of dollars on our end. No only is Mexico crippled by rampant political corruption and bribery, but it's effectively a lawless nation run by drug lords and drug money. Now you tell me, Mr. Solution, how much money and how many genenerations will it take to fix that problem? In the meantime, a border fence, workplace enforcement and deportations of criminals are looking mighty attractive.

Nope, just workplace enforcement. Cut the fish off at the head. But we both know we have a better chance of straightening out Mexico than we do of straightening out WalMart.

[BSmack]

Nope, just workplace enforcement.

With what tools?

How about we start with 20 year jail terms for people caught using illegals?

Oh wait, was that too harsh?

[BSmack]

No problem...as soon as business is provided with the tools to accurately determine whether or not the documents that have been submitted to them are authentic.

Until then, you can't dish out anything more than slaps on the wrist. It isn't the responsiblity of private business to enforce immigration law. That responsibility rests solely and squarely on the Federal government.

A good first sign is if the person is working for half of what a legal worker would.

Background checks aren't that expensive either. Not compared to jail time.

[BSmack]

Background checks? For busboys?

Try again.

Why not?

[OCmike]

Nope, just workplace enforcement. Cut the fish off at the head. But we both know we have a better chance of straightening out Mexico than we do of straightening out WalMart.

Okay, then how do we go about straightening out Mexico if that's our better option?

Workplace enforcement, while it may dry up the illegal labor market here to some degree, won't do anything to reform Mexico. Spare me the people will rise up routine, as they've already made it quite clear by coming here that they're not willing to stand up to drug lords or the gov't.

[BSmack]

If you intend to hold private business responsible for enforcing immigration law, they must be provided with a quick and reliable method of determining whether or not the set of documents on the table matches the person submitting them.

Then I guess we need to speed up the background check process. Hey, I'm not talking about finding out whether or not they like the Dixie Chicks or listen to Air America. I'm just talking about a simple yes or no answer to ONE fucking question. No way in hell is that as involved as what you went through for a security clearance.

Mike,

Thanks to the cluster fuck in the Middle East, we don't have the resources to straighten out Mexico. Simply put, you are fucked. Me, I live in NY and benefit from illegals by way of lower food prices without the nasty side effect of paying higher taxes to support them. So fuck y'all if you don't have the political will to crack down on your businesses who are making their margins on your dime.

[upstart]

Never mind that. How about telling the court about all the convictions that would be overturned if defendants were not given interpreters.

Once again, reality smashes square in the face of GOP rhetoric.

[/quote]

The criminally present don't have rights as citizens,if thay have a green
card thats one thing.But if you are in this Country as a criminal, fuck
you and you get no tax funded interpreters..you do your time and
get kicked out the day you get out of jail.

[fix]

I had to have a background check done before when I needed a security clearance. They take weeks. Now you propose to do one for every single job in the country...every time a somebody switches jobs. You do that and they will take months if not years and in the meantime the employee is fucked because he can't work and the employer is fucked because he can't produce. All you would manage to accomplish with this is to grind the economy to halt with a gargantuan bureaucratic clusterfuck of Biblical proportions.

If you intend to hold private business responsible for enforcing immigration law, they must be provided with a quick and reliable method of determining whether or not the set of documents on the table matches the person submitting them. We're talking about small businessmen and corporate HR staff here not forensic document specialists. When they can do that, I will have no problem with draconian penalties against employers.

Now if they aren't even bothering with fake documentation, then by all means slam dunk them.

That type of background checks are already in place for one industry with a huge turnover ratio, the trucking industry.
There's no reason why a company such as DAC Services which, not long ago, was purchased by USIS couldn't handle it. They alone already handle over 20 million screening transactions each year.
If an employer wants to avoid penalties they need to pay the price to have someone do their due diligence.

[Ang]

So much bullshit, so little time.

Why not just have a clearing house for employers to check if a SSN is good or not? Or a bar code or a thumbprint...we all do that on drivers licenses as citizens anyway.

I can't believe I am on the side of having the illegals paid as well as anyone else, being the Republican that I am. If they are working here, they need to be paid the same as anyone else or be shown the door. The whole argument that having "guest workers" AKA "slave labor" is necessary in this country to make it run well is just simply disgusting.

If we as American's can't raise our kids and clean our toilets and water our lawns without slave labor then we deserve to be run over by a third world country.

[Terry in Crapchester]

Never mind that. How about telling the court about all the convictions that would be overturned if defendants were not given interpreters.

Once again, reality smashes square in the face of GOP rhetoric.

The criminally present don't have rights as citizens,if thay have a green
card thats one thing.But if you are in this Country as a criminal, fuck
you and you get no tax funded interpreters..

Doesn't work that way. http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/cons ... endment06/

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

Notably absent from that provision is the requirement that the accused be a U.S. citizen, or even a foreign national here legally, to be entitled to these rights. You may not like it, but that's the way the Constitution has been written and interpreted.

you do your time and
get kicked out the day you get out of jail.

Even under the AEDPA, the only crimes that carry mandatory deportation provisions are designated felonies, i.e., felonies actually punished by incarceration for one or more years, and crimes involving moral turpitude. Having said that, for illegals, the protections of AEDPA probably don't apply.

[Nishlord]

Great idea. So when are you cunts going to start talking it properly?

[Nishlord]

Great idea. So when are you cunts going to start using it properly?

[Mikey]

There seems to be an echo in here.

Or is it just my phone?