T1B

http://www.kvoa.com/Global/story.asp?S=5030576

"We try to save people from dying from dehydration," said Paula Mich, a volunteer with Humane Borders.

Mich, along with hundreds of other Humane Borders volunteers, travels into the wilderness each day to refill tanks with water meant for the lips of illegal immigrants crossing the border.

Marked with a blue flag, the jugs are placed deep in the desert just outside Tucson in areas where volunteers say the most illegal immigrants have died from dehydration.

"We save lives by doing this," said Humane Borders Volunteer Frank Saavedra. "I don't know how many, but if it's only one it's worth it."

Not everyone agrees with Humane Borders placing water tanks in areas heavily trafficked by illegal immigrants.

Mich says vandals have been coming out to the water stations, pulling the caps off the tanks and dumping the water out into the desert.

The volunteers also say vandals are destroying the blue flags that fly atop 30-foot poles in the middle of the desert -- flags the immigrants look for when seeking out a water station on their journeys.

"Flags have been destroyed, and not in this station but in others. They've put bullet holes [the water tanks]," Mich said.

Mich also says each week Humane Borders finds at least one or more of their 70 water tanks vandalized, an act these volunteers say can kill.

"If they're planning on getting their water at that location and they get there and there's no water, then the next time they could get water could be not before they die," Saavedra said.

Russ Dove, a local immigration activist, says he understands why people trash the tanks.

"The vandal issue is a sign that Americans have had enough," Dove said, "and from observation, I think it's only going to get worse."
-----------------------------------------------

So do we rack the vandals or call them cruel, heartless and maybe even murderers?

Personally, I think they're providing an ironic service to the illegals by draining the tanks. Once word gets around that the tanks can't be relied upon, you won't see as many summer crossings in the 110+ degree Arizona summer heat and fewer dead bodies. All those filling the tanks do is encourage more risky crossings and if anything have more "blood on their hands" than the vandals that drain the tanks.

Of course, if you ask me, if someone crosses thinking he can score water at a blue flagged station in the AZ desert or not, they're nominating themselves for a darwin award if they try to cross in that area at this time of year.

Do not look at them as murderers, but simply as environmentalists providing carrion for the desert's overlooked creatures.

mvscal wrote:

OCmike wrote:an act these volunteers say can kill.

Too fucking bad. Don't want to die in the desert? No problemo. Stay home. It's too easy.

Word. If I was trying to make it over to this side, the LAST thing I'd do is cross a desert that I didn't know the size of in the middle of fucking summer. I mean, I get that they don't have a solid education system in Mexico, but even uneducated folks should be able to figure out "too hot" and "too far". Common sense says you find a cooler time of year or a cooler climate to cross in. In a word, "Duh".

You can't use the pumps 'cause the vandals broke the handles.

sin

Robert Zimmerman

You guys once again clearly demonstrate your faulty logic. Let me clear it up for you. The Mexicans didn't wait until the volunteers put out the tanks to start crossing. It wasn't like a little mexican farmer was walking along the border and saw that some idiots were leaving water to help them cross so he went back to the village and called up his 10,000 family members and told them that the American's must need some gardners and shit because they are leaving water to help them cross illegally into the US. Most of them are poor, desperate and not very educated. They'll try regardless of people leaving water or not. Now I'm all about controlling our borders, but doing vandalism is not the answer, unless of course we are talking soccer.
We once again prove succesfully that the US is not only not at the forefront of today's civilization, but rather at the back.

They wouldn't even be crossing at all if we had some type of border in place.

As it is now since they announced that the NG will be on the border, crossings are way down. Why? The illegals are afraid of the US military, because of what they've heard about Iraq.

Never thought that abu graib would become a positive.

The poor of Mexico are Mexicos problem to solve, not ours. We have plenty of poor here already.

This humane borders group is also the one that was going into Mexican border towns and passing out maps of where these water jugs were located. If there was any sense to our border plan, they'd be arrested and charged with assisting in human smuggling or at the very least aiding and abedding another in the commission of a crime.

how much do you want to bet that their justification will be " well, they'd be crossing anyway, so we should at least make it safer"

stupid morons. I agree, they should be arrested, or perhaps deported to the other side so they can help the illegals up close and personal before they leave.

The volunteers, however, say the border crossers are innocent, crossing in search of a better life.

oh yeah, they're so innocent. From another article at the above link:

So the drug smugglers got away, but they left behind more than 700 pounds of marijuana valued at over half a million dollars.

So far this year, there have been more than 100 assaults against Border Patrol agents, making this a very dangerous job.

http://www.kvoa.com/Global/story.asp?S=5037891

Vandalising those jugs is wrong...very wrong.


Don't damage the water stations -- put cyanide in them.

Foreign invasions on American soil should be treated as just that -- invasions. If these people have no regard for our laws regarding entry to our country, at what point should we assume that they're suddenly going to develope character and a sense of right-and-wrong, and respect for our laws?

At which theoretical point should we just assume that people who have already displyed a lack of respect for American laws are going to start respecting them?


Where I live, as the number of mexicans goes up, so does the crime rate. And before you counter with "it's a symptom of society" or any such bullshit, bear in mind that statistically, the mexicans commit the OVERWHELMING majority of the crime. To say that the amount of total crime committed here by mexicans was in disproportion to their demographic would be the gross understatement of the century.


So, somebody remind me why this invasion is good for me again?

Just sending the message through the border town rumor mill that some of the water tanks are poisoned would probably stop them from using them. maybe then the morons for open borders will go away..

We know the biggest moron for open borders isn't going away until 2008, so don't hold your breath for a change anytime soon.

mvscal wrote:In all seriousness though, the answer is to start shooting them. If we were to just start mowing these dildos down in a few highly publicized turkey shoots, it would make the rest of the pepper bellies think twice about fucking around.

Sincerely,
Dinsdale, screamed from every mountaintop for the last 20 years

Fuck the bleeding hearts. When you invade a firegn country and sneak across their borders illegally, for goodness-knows-what purpose(sup Al Queda), you have a reasonable expectation (which goes towards justification and legality and whatsuch) that whoever is responsible for that country's security might be inclined to ventilate you.

See, if I were to try and sneak across the border in to a country like Iran or North Korea, I would have a reasonable expectation that since I was violating their laws, and I was likely trying to enter their country less-than-honorable purposes(in their view, anyway), since I didn't persue the proper channels through which to gain legal entry into THEIR country, it's reasonable for me to expect that they might have a beef with that, and they might want to shoot me, since they probably have a pretty darn good reason to believe I was up to no good.


I'm not sure how people miss this concept. I have no claim to anything in Iran or N Korea. I have no claim to any rights or anything else in any country in which I don't have citizenship. If I ignore the laws that a nation has in place to protect their interests within their borders, it's pretty silly for me to start demanding my "rights"...I don't have any freaking rights, or any other claim to anything of theirs...SINCE IT'S NOT MY COUNTRY.


And apparently in this case, Iran and N Korea protect this aspect of their citizens' interest better than the USA does...anyone else see a problem with that?

Dinsdale wrote:Vandalising those jugs is wrong...very wrong.

Don't damage the water stations -- put cyanide in them.

I'd go with massive amounts of Warfarin. Nobody would smell or taste anything and they would die miles away from the scene.

Mister Bushice wrote: As it is now since they announced that the NG will be on the border, crossings are way down. Why? The illegals are afraid of the US military, because of what they've heard about Iraq.

No, the number of crossings is down because its fucking 120 here. The number of crossers is still higher than this time last year.

Plus the number of crossers is cyclical - its high in the fall (due to harvests), drops to next to nothing at the holidays, massively picks up in the spring as everyone who went home for the holidays comes back, and drops off in the summer when it's hot as ass.

not according to the numbers:

Guard doing its job at border; lawmakers need to do theirs, too

Arrival of the first National Guard troops along the Arizona border with Mexico has already produced a noticeable decline in the number of illegal crossings. And in so doing, we're getting a look at just how huge the illegal immigration problem is in terms of sheer numbers.
Detentions along the U.S.-Mexico border decreased by nearly 21 percent, to 26,994, in the first 10 days of June, compared with 34,077 for the same period a year ago, according to U.S. officials. Crossings along the busy Arizona border — normally the busiest clandestine port of entry — have dropped 23 percent.

http://www.yakima-herald.com/page/dis/286371910029414

Mister Bushice wrote: The illegals are afraid of the US military, because of what they've heard about Iraq.

The illegals are the U.S. military.

Recruiting is down. They'll take just about anyone these days.



Memo to Tom...

I can't believe you bit on that.

Mister Bushice wrote:not according to the numbers:

Guard doing its job at border; lawmakers need to do theirs, too

Arrival of the first National Guard troops along the Arizona border with Mexico has already produced a noticeable decline in the number of illegal crossings. And in so doing, we're getting a look at just how huge the illegal immigration problem is in terms of sheer numbers.
Detentions along the U.S.-Mexico border decreased by nearly 21 percent, to 26,994, in the first 10 days of June, compared with 34,077 for the same period a year ago, according to U.S. officials. Crossings along the busy Arizona border — normally the busiest clandestine port of entry — have dropped 23 percent.

http://www.yakima-herald.com/page/dis/286371910029414

Ah, again, it's how you measure it. The Border Patrol keeps stats on "crossers" and "detentions". You only get detained if they catch you. So a drop in detentions doesn't necessarily equate with a drop in crossers.

The BP actually has people who go out and count footprints in the sand by the fences (no bullshit). They then estimate the number of crossers from the previous day/week, and then smooth over the sand so they can count again next week. It's a guess, but it's better than just counting the guys they catch, since BP/ICE never catch 'em all. I tried to google that stat, but couldn't find it. (I'm sure you'll find it and make me look like even more of a stupid n00b ).

Last year also may not have been typical because there was massive hysteria in April/May about the Minutemen. That was their first PR stunt border watch. Once that was over, the rush was on - I remeber seeing that numbers were higher right after the Minutemen went home. Even they didn't want to be in the desert in June.

mvscal wrote:

Martyred wrote:The illegals are the U.S. military.

Illegals aren't eligible to serve in the US military, dumbfuck.

And yet they are dying in Iraq. Amazing how that's working out for them.

Is trolling supposed to be that easy? I mean, at least bait the hook.

Word. I served with a bunch of green card-carrying spanish-speakers on my ship.