T1B

Rack this kid.
R.I.P.


Marine who appeared in `Fahrenheit 9/11' killed in Iraq
6/28/2006, 9:40 a.m. ET
By MICHAEL J. FEENEY
The Associated Press

DETROIT (AP) — A U.S. Marine and one-time recruiter who appeared in Michael Moore's acclaimed documentary "Fahrenheit 9/11" has died in a roadside bombing in Iraq.

Although Staff Sgt. Raymond J. Plouhar willingly appeared in a segment of the 2004 film, his father, Raymond, said Tuesday that his son didn't realize that it was for a movie critical of the war.
Raymond Plouhar said that all his 30-year-old son ever wanted to do was serve his country.

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"I remember when he fell in the bathtub and cut his chin when he was 6 years old, and the only way I could get him to go to the hospital was to tell it was a MASH unit," Raymond Plouhar said. "I'm proud that my son wanted to protect the freedom of this country whether we all agree with the war or not."

The younger Plouhar died Monday of wounds suffered while conducting combat operations in the Al Anbar province of Iraq, the Defense Department announced Tuesday.

Plouhar, of Lake Orion, about 30 miles north of Detroit, was assigned to 3rd Battalion, 5th Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Division, First Marine Expeditionary Force at Camp Pendleton, Calif.

He signed up for the Marines immediately after graduating from Lake Orion High School, where he wrestled and played football, his father said in a telephone interview.

The 57-year-old Plouhar said his son took four years off from active duty to serve as a recruiter in Flint after donating one of his kidneys to his uncle.
During that time, the Marine was filmed as part of "Fahrenheit 9/11," about the Bush administration's actions after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

The 10-year Marine's sister and grandfather served in the Army. He had only 38 days left in Iraq and had been there a little more than four months during his most recent tour, his family said.

"I'm devastated, sad and proud," Plouhar said of his only son. "This just makes me devoted even more to his belief that people need help in Iraq, and he felt that he was helping."

He said his son was teased a lot as a young kid and protected people as he grew up.

"He liked to protect the underdog," the father said. "All of his buddies from school called saying, `He was my friend when nobody else would be.'"

Plouhar, whose full name is Raymond James Bryon Anthony Charles Plouhar, graduated from Lake Orion High School and is survived by a wife and two children, ages 5 and 9, who live in Arizona.

The family plans to hold a funeral at Modetz Funeral Home in Lake Orion but has not set a date, the elder Plouhar said. The Marine's body was expected to be returned to Michigan early next week.

Despite his son's death, Plouhar said his views on the war are unchanged.

"We need to resolve the war," he said. "If we walk out now, my son died for nothing and that will make me mad."


Fuck Moore for twisting his comments to turn a profit in his "movie".

WolverineSteve wrote:Despite his son's death, Plouhar said his views on the war are unchanged. "We need to resolve the war," he said. "If we walk out now, my son died for nothing and that will make me mad."

His kid already died for nothing. For that, I am sorry.

Fuck Moore for twisting his comments to turn a profit in his "movie".

Anybody who has ever dealt with a millitary recruiter knows that Moore didn't have to twist a damn thing.

seriously Bri......

give it a fucking rest.....

racks to those who serve....

RIP....

Felix wrote:seriously Bri......

give it a fucking rest.....

Seriously...

No

He wasn't a kid, he was thirty.

And you're something around 12-14,000 racks behind, counting all the other dead and wounded who matter just as much as this guy did.

the guy gave his life for this country.....show some respect...


you've become a part of the problem bud.....

Felix wrote:the guy gave his life for this country.....show some respect...

Acknowledging the futility of the mission is now a lack of respect? I am truly sorry that man had to die. Hopefully his children have Halliburton stock. I also pray that none of the people he recruited had to die in this fiasco. But I seriously doubt it.

mvscal wrote:

BSmack wrote:Acknowledging the futility of the mission is now a lack of respect?

A. That is nothing more than your pathetically uninformed opinion.

B. It certainly does show a lack of respect. Which is something else that you evidently know nothing about.

A lack of respect would be using this young man's death as a tool for a political attack. Which is exactly what Steve did.

mvscal wrote:Political attack?!?

Did you shit in your pants as you typed that? Get a fucking clue, douchebag.

Did you read Steve's post?

BSmack wrote: His kid already died for nothing. For that, I am sorry.

You are a short sighted selfish politiwhore who deserves neither liberty nor security. You have no respect for this country's culture as laid down by those who sacrificed family, property, and self to ensure you and yours can sit on the sidelines with your face paint and your consternation second guessing the players on the field as though you are the only one who can see the end from the beginning. I have no patience and no respect for the type of pretentious politicization that makes Michael Moore a hero and makes BSmack some high and mighty fukken authority on what battles are worth fighting and when we should fight them. You wanna do the world some good, BSack? Go on a hunger strike with Cindy WarWhore and tell the world about it. But don't make yourself or your troupe into some sort of Ghandi-esque sacrificial lambs. Ghandi was humble. You're an arrogant prick willing to sacrifice hundreds of thousands of lives to satiate your desire to be better, smarter, and more honorable than people who were elected and appointed. Why wasn't BSmack consulted on the war? Why wasn't BSmack consulted on the intelligence? Why didn't BSmack have the power to give the go-no-go on invasion? Because BSmack isn't a skidmark in a disposable diaper when it comes to military action so shut the hell up.

so will moore attend the funeral and throw some benjamins?

Steve did no such thing. He was thanking a man for his service. Kindly go fist yourself.

Rootbeer wrote:You are a short sighted selfish politiwhore who deserves neither liberty nor security.

Liberty is a gift from the Almighty. The Bill of Rights out front should have told you that. As for security, that is just an illusion.

Your ignorance is only surpassed by your inability to form a coherent paragraph.

Cicero wrote:Steve did no such thing. He was thanking a man for his service. Kindly go fist yourself.

My question was posed to mv. You are an illiterate fucktard who is apparently incapable of reading to the bottom of a post.

If liberty is a gift from the Almighty then why doesn't everyone have it? Iraquis out front could tell you.

^^^ Ouch! ^^^

Liberty is something that is achieved
by the sacrifice of people willing to lay
down their lives for it !!
Follks like Bri will never understand--
luckily they are in the minority.

Wolfman wrote:Liberty is something that is achieved
by the sacrifice of people willing to lay
down their lives for it !!

So Stalin didn't have an army? They were willing to fight. I thought liberty was relative, but not to that degree.

Liberty is indeed God-given, and this belief is part of our American heritage, as specifically stated by Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence.

Liberty, however, is usurped by tyrants, given away by complacent citizens (as pointed out by Ben Franklin), or taken by enemy nations. Liberty stolen or attacked must be defended or reclaimed. That's why Andy Jackson pointed out that eternal vigilance is the price of liberty*

(I know that Wendell Phillips usually gets the credit for coining that, but Jackson beat him by 15 years...)

Liberty is indeed God-given,

Liberty is a natural construct of nature. It is man who subverts it when he tries to control the will of others.

Where in hell did I mention zebras? We're sitting at the top of the fucking food chain, pal. We rule.

So to clarify - when it comes to mankind, liberty is a birth right until humans step in and change the rules.

Mister Bushice wrote:Where in hell did I mention zebras? We're sitting at the top of the fucking food chain, pal. We rule.

So to clarify - when it comes to mankind, liberty is a birth right until humans step in and change the rules.

Reminds me of a tale told by G Gordon Liddy years ago about a group of Peace Corps volunteers trying to swim in a river inhabited by crocodiles.

A local warned them, at which point he was rebuked with "Nonsense, we're with the Peace Corps" and went in the water.


I don't remember if it was all or just some of the Peace corps volunteers who were eaten.

I would say freedom is a fact. Out of comfort or the fact that there's no other available real estate not governed we allow ourselves to be subject to the rules of governing bodies.

mvscal wrote:

Mister Bushice wrote:So to clarify - when it comes to mankind, liberty is a birth right until humans step in and change the rules.

Guess again. Liberty is a philosophical construct of Western civilization. It has nothing to do with nature or God or any other damn thing.

The only rights you have are the ones you can enforce or defend.

Agree and disagree. This proclivity to make "philosophical constructs" appears to be something rooted in HUMAN nature.

Roll the clock back to a day, place and time when humans were born into a world without credit cards, social security numbers or governments breathing down their necks.

The only constraint man had then was survival - eating and not being eaten.

Given that both eating and not being eaten are normally within a humans ability to control, that would be a non western civilization construct of liberty through nature. You starve or get eaten, you lose that liberty.

When you introduce human civilization / western civilization, etc and all the shackles that come along with it then you are no longer truly at liberty to do as you please.

The desire for liberty is inherent in every living thing. The yearning is given to each by their Creator. The practical application of liberty is secured and defended by righteous men.

The desire for liberty is inherent in every living thing. The yearning is given to each by their Creator. The practical application of liberty is secured and defended by righteous men.

Well maybe, given that no matter how large the fish tank, the captive fish will always end up banging its head against the glass trying to get out.

But boiled down, most life on the planet is all about survival -- i.e., food, water, shelter, and reproduction.

Uncle Fester wrote:Well maybe, given that no matter how large the fish tank, the captive fish will always end up banging its head against the glass trying to get out.

But boiled down ...

Well maybe if you stopped trying to boil what's in the fish tank, the inhabitants would do a little less headbanging.

My cousin actually did that. He was worried the fish were cold.

mvscal wrote:Functionally human societies are no different from wolf packs or groups of chimps.

~Shamelessly going for the cheap laugh~

That explains a lot about 11/00 & 11/04.

Humans are pack animals.

But pack animals need room.
We thought we were ants.

Sin,

Japan
China
India
Soon to be America
Etc.

Uncle Fester wrote:

Humans are pack animals.

We thought we were ants.

We might be giants

Istanbul...not Constantinople.

You are a short sighted selfish politiwhore who deserves neither liberty nor security. You have no respect for this country's culture as laid down by those who sacrificed family, property, and self to ensure you and yours can sit on the sidelines with your face paint and your consternation second guessing the players on the field as though you are the only one who can see the end from the beginning. I have no patience and no respect for the type of pretentious politicization that makes Michael Moore a hero and makes BSmack some high and mighty fukken authority on what battles are worth fighting and when we should fight them. You wanna do the world some good, BSack? Go on a hunger strike with Cindy WarWhore and tell the world about it. But don't make yourself or your troupe into some sort of Ghandi-esque sacrificial lambs. Ghandi was humble. You're an arrogant prick willing to sacrifice hundreds of thousands of lives to satiate your desire to be better, smarter, and more honorable than people who were elected and appointed. Why wasn't BSmack consulted on the war? Why wasn't BSmack consulted on the intelligence? Why didn't BSmack have the power to give the go-no-go on invasion? Because BSmack isn't a skidmark in a disposable diaper when it comes to military action so shut the hell up.

RACK this thread.

My son brought a tear to my eye...

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

Maybe it's a bit of personal bias, but if the notion of liberty is merely a western philosophical construct, then it seems to me that its worth - its value to humanity (singly and collectively) - is little more than some cultural affectation. As a theist (meaning, in this case a believer in God), I deeply believe the words quoted above by Jefferson. Perhaps considering liberty a mere philosophical construct might explain its lack of value in atheistic nations like the Soviet Union, North Korea, Communist China....

Mister Bushice wrote:

Liberty is indeed God-given,

Liberty is a natural construct of nature. It is man who subverts it when he tries to control the will of others.

So says the atheistic spin-zone mod. Nope, you've never tried to control the will of others.

Rack rootbeer. Don't know dude from cream soda, but that rawked.

Oh, and no real surprise, but B-schmuck is still a clueless douchebag.

I've run out of being able to offer racks for MtLR. He's used up a lifetime of 'em already in the past few weeks. WAR Lab Rat and summer vacations.

Would some mod or admin just place an "eternally RACKED" tag under that JW Red snifting son of a guns nic ? TIA.

Rootbeer wrote: Why wasn't BSmack consulted on the war? Why wasn't BSmack consulted on the intelligence? Why didn't BSmack have the power to give the go-no-go on invasion? .

Could he have managed it any worse than Bush?

Mississippi Neck wrote:

Rootbeer wrote: Why wasn't BSmack consulted on the war? Why wasn't BSmack consulted on the intelligence? Why didn't BSmack have the power to give the go-no-go on invasion? .

Could he have managed it any worse than Bush?

That's a stupid question.

If it had been left up to Comrade B_, we'd be up to UN resolution 6,321 by now, whilst Saddam continued his unmerciful rape and despotic rule. He'd still be stashing suitcases full of Benjamins in the last hole he could find.

Removing Saddam from power was a no brainer, but great take, Monday morning QB.

rack rootbeer

Mtard has some competition in the t1b tardathalon 2006, bsmack is trying to runaway with the competition this year.