Israel=pussies

The Seer · Post by **The Seer** » Sun Aug 06, 2006 6:33 pm

You turn a war into a popularity contest.

You let a ragtag non-uniformed bunch of cowards lob bombs into your cites.

You allow Syria and Iran to sit back and laugh.

You have the firepower and the know-how to level cesspools like Damascus, Tehran, Beirut, etc. etc. and you do nothing.

You are pussies.

bbqjones · Post by **bbqjones** » Sun Aug 06, 2006 6:37 pm

tim russert is fat

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Sun Aug 06, 2006 7:27 pm

The simple fact is, they're smart. They can't broaden this war, because it will careen out of control...and after the dust settles, their very existence would be imperiled.

Whatever your thoughts on Israel's right to exist in that strip of land, the reality is that it's just a tough strip of land to hold on to. The price of holding that land amidst many enemies is the actual proximity to those enemies, which will never change.

Take a moment to understand what has happened. Israel had some soldiers kidnapped, and they went after them. In so doing, they opened their nation to attacks that they could not prevent. Sadly for them and those who imagine glorious military gains, the diplomatic solution was the only valid one from the get-go.

The Seer · Post by **The Seer** » Sun Aug 06, 2006 8:10 pm

"Diplomatic solutions" as defined by Middle-eastern muslims, translates into Israel making concessions by itself. When wars occurred, their rewards were obvious. This isn't rocket science. One thing works over there and one thing only. Force.

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Sun Aug 06, 2006 8:16 pm

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060806/ts_nm/mideast_olmert_europe_dc wrote:In the Welt am Sonntag interview, Olmert was asked if he had underestimated Hizbollah.

"No, we know that they have only fired 3,000 rockets so far and that they have 15,000," he said. "The question is more: If Hizbollah knew what the consequences of their attack would be, would they nevertheless have done it? I don't think so."

Olmert said Hizbollah was being defeated but it was not possible to eradicate a grass-roots guerrilla movement.

What do you propose they do? What part of the 1980s experience in Lebanon did you fail to understand?

The Seer · Post by **The Seer** » Sun Aug 06, 2006 8:25 pm

To kill a weed you do not cut the tops off of them. You have to remove them, roots and all. Israel has to go after the source....Syria & Iran. Mow down a few plain-clothes Hezzies along the way before they are recalled by their masters....

Let the artillery fly!

Tactical nukes.

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Sun Aug 06, 2006 8:40 pm

The Seer wrote:
Tactical nukes.

there is no such thing......

pull your fucking head out of your ass.....

Luther · Post by **Luther** » Sun Aug 06, 2006 8:50 pm

Uh guys, when mvscal goes into work tomorrow he's going to read this thread. He is going to call PSU a dumbfuck and he might rip some asses in this thread by 5PM tomorrow.

I think I saw on the military channel awhile back that we have a nuke type weapon that is low on radiation when it goes boom. How long have we had it, I dunno. I was drinking bourbon when I saw the show...but I think it is a battlefield type of weapon. I believe the principal involved is that you wait until the wind is blowing directly toward the enemy before you light it off. Kind of like farting on a golf course.

Rip City

The Seer · Post by **The Seer** » Sun Aug 06, 2006 9:16 pm

Felix wrote:
The Seer wrote:
Tactical nukes.
there is no such thing......

pull your fucking head out of your ass.....

Just because in your compact little world you haven't heard of them, or know about them, does not mean they do not exist. Maybe you'll get to see 'em....

Jimmy Medalions · Post by **Jimmy Medalions** » Sun Aug 06, 2006 9:23 pm

Felix wrote:
The Seer wrote:
Tactical nukes.
there is no such thing......

pull your fucking head out of your ass.....

According to a couple of ex-marines I know, yes, they do.

Shlomart Ben Yisrael · Sun Aug 06, 2006 9:45 pm

The Seer wrote:
Felix wrote:
The Seer wrote:
Tactical nukes.
there is no such thing......

pull your fucking head out of your ass.....

Just because in your compact little world you haven't heard of them, or know about them, does not mean they do not exist. Maybe you'll get to see 'em....

Israel would never relinquish the "Holocaust Trump Card" by vapourizing an Arab city.

They couldn't stand the competition.
In their view, this is a one victim planet. They hold it closely.

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:09 pm

Jimmy Medalions wrote:
According to a couple of ex-marines I know, yes, they do.

I couldn't care less what anyone calls them....

there is no such thing as a "tactical" nuclear device......

Pandora's Box out front should have told you.....

Jimmy Medalions · Post by **Jimmy Medalions** » Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:09 pm

Whether or not they should be used isn't part of this discussion. They do exist and you are a dumbfuck.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:21 am

The Seer wrote:To kill a weed you do not cut the tops off of them. You have to remove them, roots and all. Israel has to go after the source....Syria & Iran. Mow down a few plain-clothes Hezzies along the way before they are recalled by their masters....

Let the artillery fly!

Tactical nukes.

Wow. Just. Wow.

That's all we need. To enflame the entire Middle East, cause a total cessation of oil flowing, and basically start Armageddon. How long do you think it would be after Tehran were leveled that muslim countries like India and Pakistan would start heaving their own nuclear arsenals towards Tel-Aviv and Jerusalem in a retaliatory strike?

Trust me, Seer. Left on their own, Israel might do just that if they thought that their survival were at stake. Luckily, the U.S. can keep them on a shorter leash than that, as long as they know that we have their back.

Conversely, It's American support for Israel that has kept the muzzie horde from over-running Israel these past 50 years, and will continue to keep them at bay

Israel are anything but "pussies".

They're not suicidal idiots, either.

Van · Post by **Van** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:25 am

India? Muslim??

Who knew?

Methinks there's over a billion Hindus and Sikhs in India who'd just as soon be subjected to a never ending loop of Will And Grace than be called Muslim...

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:33 am

Muslim, Hindu, Budhist,...what's the diff?

I'm guessing that India has a fair share of Muslims.

Sheesh, that's not really the point.

The point is that Israel using nukes to quell guerillas launching scuds ain't really a good idea.

Van · Post by **Van** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:48 am

Yeah, even though India is over 85% Hindu (including Sikhs) there actually are a fuckuva lotta Muslims living in India. Estimates are over 140 million, if Kashmir is included.

Muslims are mostly despised in India though...

Get this: Hindus look down on Indian Muslims for being...too poor!

Bwaaa.

In fact, in India's most populace state there've actually been governmental drives to encourage Hindus to have MORE babies, so as to keep the "Muslim threat" at bay...

Bwaaa.

The Seer · Post by **The Seer** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 2:08 am

Unfortunately, Israel is primarily fighting Islamofascist terrorist Hezbollah. The young bucks that volunteer for that group are hoping for their honorable end....to meet the virgins...etc.etc.etc....They are from a culture that - as they say - worships death like the Western cultures worship life....

Killing a few of these will accomplish nothing. Unfortunately, the "martyrs" that are shelling Israel while not fearing death, do in fact love their families. They do not want their younger sisters or mothers to face the virginal afterlife. So killing civilians might be the only deterrent that can get the attention of those that hide among civilians while aiming at civilians....

Situation is fucked; but enough dancing. It is what it is....

Van · Post by **Van** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 2:58 am

So killing civilians might be the only deterrent that can get the attention of those that hide among civilians while aiming at civilians....

Very well put.

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 3:42 am

News flash...there is no show of force, or amount of dead civs, that will change a thing about the aims of radical Islam. Their determination to oppose Israel will never be altered by the deaths of Lebanese, Syrian, or Iranian civilians.

Moving on...we all know, don't we, that India was partitioned in 1947, mostly along Muslim and Hindu lines? Millions of muslims from the Subcontinent moved to Pakistan, and vice-versa...

The Seer · Post by **The Seer** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 3:51 am

PSUFAN wrote:News flash...there is no show of force, or amount of dead civs, that will change a thing about the aims of radical Islam. Their determination to oppose Israel, (and every other culture that is different from theirs) will never be altered by the deaths of Lebanese, Syrian, or Iranian civilians.

Moving on...we all know, don't we, that India was partitioned in 1947, mostly along Muslim and Hindu lines? Millions of muslims from the Subcontinent moved to Pakistan, and vice-versa...

Coming to a theatre near you!.....

FTFY-NC

The Seer · Post by **The Seer** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 3:53 am

Luther wrote:Uh guys, when mvscal goes into work tomorrow he's going to read this thread.
Rip City

I'm one of those weird folk that doesn't post during work....but after....so I generally miss the a.m. fireworks....

Mister Bushice · Post by **Mister Bushice** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 3:56 am

War Wagon wrote:Muslim, Hindu, Budhist,...what's the diff?

We agree,

sin,

The Germans who bombed Pearl Harbor.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:14 am

Van wrote:
So killing civilians might be the only deterrent that can get the attention of those that hide among civilians while aiming at civilians....
Very well put.

Not really.

Unless you consider launching scuds into the Israeli countryside "aiming" at civilians.

I've seen more co-ordinated attacks on civilzation done by wildfires in Cali than these miserable attempts at what amounts to shooting off unguided bottle rockets.

But just watch CNN some more and oooh and aaah over them panning some measly brush fires, and think that the response needs to be nukes, rather than a freaking garden hose.

Jeebus.

Mister Bushice · Post by **Mister Bushice** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 6:04 am

War Wagon wrote:
Unless you consider launching scuds into the Israeli countryside "aiming" at civilians.

I've seen more co-ordinated attacks on civilzation done by wildfires in Cali than these miserable attempts at what amounts to shooting off unguided bottle rockets.

But just watch CNN some more and oooh and aaah over them panning some measly brush fires,

Yeah, Riight:

In the deadliest attack on Israelis in this war, a rocket landed Sunday among reservists near the entrance to the communal farm of Kfar Giladi on the Lebanese border. It killed 12 soldiers heading for battle in Lebanon and wounded five, hospital officials said.

Hezbollah rockets also hit Haifa, Israel's third-largest city, killing three civilians and wounding dozens. Flames shot from damaged homes as firefighters tried to rescue panicked residents.

Whitey, you're a dumbfuck.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 6:16 am

Mister Bushice wrote:
War Wagon wrote:
Unless you consider launching scuds into the Israeli countryside "aiming" at civilians.

I've seen more co-ordinated attacks on civilzation done by wildfires in Cali than these miserable attempts at what amounts to shooting off unguided bottle rockets.

But just watch CNN some more and oooh and aaah over them panning some measly brush fires,
Yeah, Riight:

In the deadliest attack on Israelis in this war, a rocket landed Sunday among reservists near the entrance to the communal farm of Kfar Giladi on the Lebanese border. It killed 12 soldiers heading for battle in Lebanon and wounded five, hospital officials said.

Hezbollah rockets also hit Haifa, Israel's third-largest city, killing three civilians and wounding dozens. Flames shot from damaged homes as firefighters tried to rescue panicked residents.
Whitey, you're a dumbfuck.

You just can't resist, can you Bitchshice?

You ever hear of lucky shots? That's exactly what those were.

So, time to break out the nukes, eh?

Save it, you duplicitous cunt.

You're just steaming because this wasn't posted in the Spin zone where you could start moving, editing, and deleting to suit your fancy.

Van · Post by **Van** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 6:56 am

War Wagon wrote:
Van wrote:
So killing civilians might be the only deterrent that can get the attention of those that hide among civilians while aiming at civilians....
Very well put.
Not really.

Unless you consider launching scuds into the Israeli countryside "aiming" at civilians.

Yes, I do, since civilians are usually the only people they have a chance at hitting with those ridiculous rockets they launch on a wing and a prayer in the general vicinity of, ummm....south!

If they're shooting off their "long range" rockets, well...

:chuckle:

Shooting off doddering rockets and screaming "Marco!" and then waiting to see if anybody calls back with an anguished "Polo!", yeah, their only reason for doing so is to inflict fear among Israel's civilians by occasionally killing some with a lucky strike...

LTS TRN 2 · Post by **LTS TRN 2** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 7:01 am

The Seer wrote:Unfortunately, Israel is primarily fighting Islamofascist terrorist Hezbollah. The young bucks that volunteer for that group are hoping for their honorable end....to meet the virgins...etc.etc.etc....They are from a culture that - as they say - worships death like the Western cultures worship life....

Killing a few of these will accomplish nothing. Unfortunately, the "martyrs" that are shelling Israel while not fearing death, do in fact love their families. They do not want their younger sisters or mothers to face the virginal afterlife. So killing civilians might be the only deterrent that can get the attention of those that hide among civilians while aiming at civilians....

Situation is fucked; but enough dancing. It is what it is....

C'r, you can't really be this packed with Rusp Limpdick ditto-bile, can you?

Is this simplistic nonsense actualy reflective of your cropped headspace?

Reality check: The Condi show is REALLY getting some, uh, bad reviews...yep, might have to make some MAJOR revisions in the gibberish waffling amid the auto-smile lunacy that is currently passing for U.S. staesmanship.

As for he Chimp and his (hiding) cabal, let's look for impeachment hearings right after the House and Senate cleaning--starting this week with Lieb the Hebe.

BTW, "It is what it is" is lawyer codespeak for "there's lotsa money to be made in sustaining the status quo, etc."--didja know that? :wink:

Mister Bushice · Post by **Mister Bushice** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 8:42 am

War Wagon wrote:
Unless you consider launching scuds into the Israeli countryside "aiming" at civilians.

I've seen more co-ordinated attacks on civilzation done by wildfires in Cali than these miserable attempts at what amounts to shooting off unguided bottle rockets.

whitey wrote: You ever hear of lucky shots? That's exactly what those were.

people with brains wrote: In addition, the warheads used suggest a desire to maximize harm to civilians. Some of the rockets launched against Haifa over the past two days contained hundreds of metal ball bearings that are of limited use against military targets but cause great harm to civilians and civilian property. The ball bearings lodge in the body and cause serious harm.

care to STFU yet, moron? Talking out of your ass again as usual.

They arm them specifically to do bodily harm and cause structural damage and they aim them at civilian areas. The shots aren't lucky, fuck nut, they are planned to injure and kill people, and they have done so. They weren't designed to be precision aimed, but they can certianly do damage in a dense residential area, and they have.

Sunday's deaths brought to 93 the number of Israelis killed, including 45 soldiers, the 12 reservists and 36 civilians.

That doesn't include the structural damage or injuries.

A few "Brush Fires"?

Idiot.

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:42 pm

So...Israel goes after two soldiers, and 45 soldiers, the 12 reservists and 36 civilians are not significant?

Nice take.

Shlomart Ben Yisrael · Mon Aug 07, 2006 2:03 pm

Americans need to set up "Volunteer Brigades" where sympathetic allies of Israel can go over there and engage their enemies.

C'mon, I thought volunteerism was the American way?
You all loooove Israel, right?

I'll drive you to the airport.

Shlomart Ben Yisrael · Mon Aug 07, 2006 3:36 pm

mvscal wrote: Israel is just going to have to get over their squeamishness about inflicting civilian casualties. If Hezbollah is shooting in and around civilians then tough shit. Kill them all. This is the only tactic they have. Take it away from them and they are completely exposed.

I believe there's a Himmler quote regarding operations in the East that mirror that statement. Turns out, he was a chickenshit coward, too.

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 3:53 pm

By whom?

Do you really believe that Syria or Iran can't hit Israel with some nasty shit, if the conflict were to broaden?

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 4:22 pm

Take a deep breath and read more carefully.

I'm not contending that Syria poses a legit conventional threat to Israel. Surely Israel would defeat Syria soundly in a conventional standoff. However, Syria could definitely hit Israel with chemical-laden Scuds, and quite possibly bio warfare material as well. It doesn't matter what remains of Syria after Tel Aviv is hit with a dirty Scud, now does it?

Israel's civ populations are just too close to their enemies for comfort. Therefore, they're quite limited in what they do militarily.

Moving Sale · Post by **Moving Sale** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 4:35 pm

What is so un-conventional about chemical warfare?

Now I got my own mustard gas in my pocket
Climb on a tree on a branch and drop it
On a country club full of Saturday golfers
So I can watch them die chokin' shakin'in convulsions
Go crazy crazy crazy crazy
Crazy crazy crazy crazy…

Chemical Warfare Chemical Warfare
Chemical Warfare Warfare Warfare

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 4:43 pm

Chemical weapons are a fucking joke

Sure, if you say so, cowboy. Meanwhile, it doesn't appear that Israel is joking when they undertake an invasion of Lebanon over two kidnapped soldiers. My guess (based on your advice) is that they'd be OK in Tel-Aviv with getting hit by dirty scuds, right? And furthermore, Israel would have the luxury of taking on her enemies one by one, correct?

Sorry, cowpokes...it's not as easy as you're making it out to be.

Van · Post by **Van** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 4:44 pm

Israel's civ populations are just too close to their enemies for comfort. Therefore, they're quite limited in what they do militarily.

Which is why, when, as you say, after the dust settles, Israel will have to expand its borders and increase the buffer zones.

It looks like the world wishes for U.N. troops to play the role of peacekeepers in those buffer zones but make no mistake, those Hezbollah free zones are going to continue to expand and they're going to continue to expand into Arab territory, not Israeli...

By underestimating Israel's response to these latest acts of provocation in Gaza and in southern Lebanon the Arab world is creating its own worst nightmare: a growing Israel.

The only way this could get any worse for the Arabs would be if Israel decides enough's enough, we're taking the kid gloves off now and we're going into Lebanon full force in order to destroy the Hezbollah presence in Lebanon.

Good luck with that, Lebanon.

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 4:46 pm

those Hezbollah free zones

Which ones are those? They remain theoretical right now.

Face it - diplomacy will be their only way through this.

Van · Post by **Van** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:04 pm

PSU, Hezbollah free zones are what we'll see in southern Lebanon shortly here, after the region is first cleared out by Israel to its general satisfaction and then that entire southern region of Lebanon is patrolled by a combination of U.N. forces and regular Lebanese army troops.

Hezbollah is proving to be more trouble than they're worth to the regular man on the street in Beirut or Tyre. Beirut was rebounding decently from 1982. Were it not for Hezbollah Lebanon wouldn't be in the mess they're in now and they can blame Hezbollah for it now and in the future, 100%.

Yes, there'll be diplomacy, and as always the victors will determine the spoils. Hezbollah cannot defeat or even seriously damage Israel.

The reverse isn't true, now is it? Following this sort of nonsense from the Arab world after Israel had already given back Gaza and after they'd left Lebanon alone for quite a long time Israel will now most assuredly shape the playing field more to their liking before they ever sit down to undertake substantive peace talks with Lebanon and/or Hezbollah.

So, PSU, how do you see it working, in terms of diplomacy? Israel will agree to what, and under what circumstances?

With the U.S. steadfastly covering Israel's back in the U.N. Security Council exactly who's going to stop Israel from doing whatever they feel is necessary here before they're finally willing to sit down and discuss peace terms?

There's nobody and nothing in the Arab world that can say or do shit to Israel. Not Syria, surely not Iraq and definitely not Iran either.

Saudi wouldn't dare, and neither would Egypt.

Diplomacy? Sure. Appomattox was also "diplomacy".

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:44 pm

Hezbollah free zones are what we'll see in southern Lebanon shortly here, after the region is first cleared out by Israel to its general satisfaction and then that entire southern region of Lebanon is patrolled by a combination of U.N. forces and regular Lebanese army troops.

Wow...you said a mouthful. I certainly hope that things go as easily as you've described.

UN/Lebanese forces will ensure that zones are Hezbollah free? I guess we can hope as much. Something similar is surely unfolding now in Iraq and Afghanistan, correct? Israel was able to dictate who was roaming around Lebanon in their prior occupation, correct?

Incorrect.

There's nobody and nothing in the Arab world that can say or do shit to Israel. Not Syria, surely not Iraq and definitely not Iran either.

Quite a nice pronouncement...but what makes you so sure of this? I invite you to do a little research on Syria and Iran, and their arsenals, beginning here:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/iran/index.html

Now please...in the course of your research, if you find assurances that Syria and Iran are incapable of reaching Israel, or that they don't have sufficiant materials, then by all means, set our minds at ease. Can you take it past a mere declaration, though?

So, PSU, how do you see it working, in terms of diplomacy? Israel will agree to what, and under what circumstances?

That's not exactly what's being discussed here. The point is this...Israel can't just muscle their way through this. Their options are very limited, because of their proximity to their enemies, and because the US simply cannot allow Israel a free hand in the region. Last I checked, we're delivering Israel the military means...and we're not doing it so that they can undermine the central goals of the Bush Administration policy in the region. Bush is hell-bent on change in the region, and that change has to be built on the backs of moderate governments such as the one in Lebanon. The US also needs Iraq to develop the capability of securing its borders, electing governments not intent on attacking us, and policing the nation. If the United States can't snap their fingers and get what they want in Iraq, what makes you think that Israel can do so in Lebanon?