Yahoo! Investigation uncovers illegal payments to Bush, Fam

BlindRef · Post by **BlindRef** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 2:47 am

This is just as bad as the Fab Five...if not worse.

The NCAA should bring the hammer down on USC if this is true.

Maybe Ohio State will clean up their act once they see a real program get punished for cheating.

(I can't say this is suprising, I always get suspicious when a team continues to bring in excellent talent)

Left Seater · Post by **Left Seater** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 3:09 am

Nice job Bush. Too bad the university has to suffer since there is no way he didn't know this was illegal. Here's hoping states pass laws that not only penalize the agents, but that they punish the athletes who take the benefits.

I would also like to see Bush be held liable for the damages to SC.

So that 1.5 NC is now 0?

Left Seater · Post by **Left Seater** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 3:23 am

^^^^^^^^

If only 1/10th of this is true, USC lost their title and Bush just lost the Heisman.

Sky · Post by **Sky** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 3:23 am

I don't know what is worse here...the continual crumbling of USC's "dynasty" or the fact that it was Yahoo! Sports who investigate and broke the story first. I didn't even know they had reporters.

bradhusker · Post by **bradhusker** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 3:24 am

this is just the start, the bush family received money and luxurious gifts totalling over 100,000.
according to several key sources, usc may be stripped of the 04 title, AND, it only gets worse,
as NEBRASKA looks to, "RESTORE THE ORDER" on saturday.

Left Seater · Post by **Left Seater** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 3:44 am

If it can be proven that Carroll did know, then and only then IMO can they try to say lack of institutional control.

That having been said, I find it very hard to believe that Carroll wouldn't know about a new car for his star back. Hell, back when I played and my mom gave me her old Suburban and bought a new car, I notified my position coach as per team policy. I am pretty sure the school called my mom and spoke to her about it.

Van · Post by **Van** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 4:59 am

I almost hope this shit does completely blow up into a huge firestorm with the resulting NCAA penalties, just to further embarrass the pathetic joke that is the NCAA.

Goddamn but this is so much ado about nothing...

Van · Post by **Van** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 5:20 am

The article says the $1500 per week went to the Bush family, not to Reggie. The family will say the money was paid back per some agreement and that it was all part of a deal that was independent of Reggie, or some such bullshit.

The whole thing is just ridiculous. Nobody gives a shit about any of this stuff, except insofar as it can be used to hurt programs you might not like.

The NCAA system is just too far out of touch with reality. They won't continue to be able to let these kids make their programs millions of dollars while telling these kids they can't receive compensation. And no, a mere scholarship to a university is not commensurate in the least with the kind of money a Reggie Bush or a Vince Young brings to the coffers...

I just don't care about any of these types of allegations. I'd be far more bothered over schoolwork fraud/cheating and things of that sort.

Van · Post by **Van** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 5:37 am

And you really give a shit about any of it, right? It deeply troubles you to know that yet another star collegiate athlete drove a nice car he didn't fully pay for while also receiving other perks along the way? Santa Claus Ain't Real kinda impact, huh? Shit stories like Reggie driving a car or staying in a hotel room made USC a better football team, gave 'em some sort of competitive advantage, right?

WGARA.

Better yet...

W...i...t...c...h...H...u...n...t.

But if it truly bothers you and if you truly think Reggie is some sort of isolated incident and the whole university should be burned at the stake over it, hey, knock yourself out. Feel as mortified as you see fit.

Myself, I couldn't care less about stuff like this. Wouldn't matter to me what school or what athlete either. It just doesn't register with me. Cheating, whether it's in the classroom or in the pharmacist's back room, those things bother me. Some kid's family lives a little higher on the hog than they normally might, and they're doing it a year or so prematurely in advance of a pro contract?

Call me a cynic but I just don't care. There are far more troubling issues floating around NCAA sports...

SoCalTrjn · Post by **SoCalTrjn** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:07 am

what kind of car was Reggie driving?

Are schools going to be held responsible for the wrong doing of student athletes parents?

Are parents going to have to submit financial records to the school that their child is a student athlete of?

Is a head football coach who is trying to run a program, win a championship, recruit new players and make sure the players he has do their class work really going to be held responisble for the stupidity of a step parent of one of the 100 or so young men on his team?

The people behind this had nothing to do with USC other than just wanting to cash in on a player that went to USC

If USC is held responsible for this, could USC boosters give extra financial benefits to the parents of athletes from other schools with the soul purpose being getting those other schools in trouble.
Example, could marlon Luckys mom get a raise by her boss and then that boss later saying they only gave Mrs Lucky the raise because her son was an athlete, thus getting nebraska in trouble?

USC has already been punished for this, they lost Reggie Bush.
This is not a USC problem, this would have happened no matter what school Reggie went to because these shady agent wannabes were trying to cash in on the talents of a local kid who went away to the big city to play college ball. These guys knew he'd be worth millions of dollars and that his step dad was a big enough of a numbskull to facilitate them
Someone should be held responsible for this, but its not USC or its football program, theyre the biggest victims in the whole situation

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 12:40 pm

BlindRef wrote:This is just as bad as the Fab Five...if not worse.

The NCAA should bring the hammer down on USC if this is true.

Maybe Ohio State will clean up their act once they see a real program get punished for cheating.

(I can't say this is suprising, I always get suspicious when a team continues to bring in excellent talent and develop it)

FTFY

Nolesy · Post by **Nolesy** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 1:01 pm

A new car? all I got was a couple pair of pants.

Sincerely, Peter Warrick

Degenerate · Post by **Degenerate** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 1:15 pm

Van wrote: The whole thing is just ridiculous. Nobody gives a shit about any of this stuff, except insofar as it can be used to hurt programs you might not like.

Quite similar to your inane diatribes on scheduling.

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 1:30 pm

Someone should be held responsible for this, but its not USC or its football program, theyre the biggest victims in the whole situation

Let's hear them make that case.

The whole thing is just ridiculous. Nobody gives a shit about any of this stuff

Not true. Only those over-enamoured with a team's success don't give a shit.

Nothing has been proven as of yet, but it sounds like you're willing to set the bar really low. When it comes to paying players, "stop picking on us because we're successful" isn't going to wash.

Van · Post by **Van** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 2:49 pm

Degenerate wrote:
Van wrote: The whole thing is just ridiculous. Nobody gives a shit about any of this stuff, except insofar as it can be used to hurt programs you might not like.
Quite similar to your inane diatribes on scheduling.

As usual, you make no sense.

Gonna try to compare Reggie's parents getting a free plane ride or whatever with major powers scheduling McNeese State in order to overload their schedules with home game scrimmages. Yeah, there's a real corollation between these two things.

Brilliant.

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 2:57 pm

BTW...nice to see that Yahoo is feeling a little self-important.

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/news;_ylt ... &type=lgns

OK, OK, OK! Yahoo broke the story...we fucking GET it already.

See You Next Wednesday · Fri Sep 15, 2006 3:07 pm

I gotta ppartially agree with Van. The whole concept of amateur athletics, especially when it comes to college football, is a joke and almost criminal. However, the rules were in place and if Reggie broke them he should be punished and possibly the school too.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 3:49 pm

Funny how, if you do a google search, no other news services are picking this up except to say that "according to Yahoo sports Reggie Bush and his family appear to have taken gifts, money and other benefits worth over $100,000...".

And yet Yahoo is already calling for the NCAA to strip SD of its MNCs.

Of course, if this is true it's big, but can you say "unknown sports hack trying really hard to make a name for himself"?

Van · Post by **Van** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 3:52 pm

Also, wasn't the majority of this story already floating around a couple months ago?

Same cast of characters, same allegations, same explanations/denials/"no comments"...

SoCalTrjn · Post by **SoCalTrjn** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 4:02 pm

in 2001 the NCAA changed the rules lessening the liability of the schools when an athlete is given improper benefits from an agen not involved with the school.
Even the NCAA recognizes the difference between rogue agents praying on student athletes and what the agent is trying to accomplish compared to what long time boosters are trying to accomplish when they pay off students or their parents.
So if this happened prior to 2001, USC may be held responsible if it happened after 2001, not so much.
The difference between this and the Fab 5 thing or the things with the car dealership in Oklahoma is that in both of the other cases the benefits were being given to the player(s) to stay in school and continue to perform for the school and in Reggies case his stepfather was paid to convince reggie to leave school early

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 4:11 pm

SoCalTrjn wrote:The difference between this and the Fab 5 thing or the things with the car dealership in Oklahoma is that in both of the other cases the benefits were being given to the player(s) to stay in school and continue to perform for the school and in Reggies case his stepfather was paid to convince reggie to leave school early

In 2004, when he couldn't leave school?

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 4:24 pm

Van wrote:Also, wasn't the majority of this story already floating around a couple months ago?

Same cast of characters, same allegations, same explanations/denials/"no comments"...

Yes. It was floating around during the season last year. If I remember right a lot of it came from some guy who got fired by the agent that Bush eventually hired, or an agent that Bush's stepdad had promised the business to but got dropped, or something like that.

Van · Post by **Van** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 4:26 pm

Blow up the whole system.

College athletes deserve a significant monetary stipend and they also deserve to be able to go out and hold jobs if they wish to do so, both in season and during the summer. Telling impoverished athletes they have to subsist solely on their scholarship money plus whatever they can get from their broke ass parents is ridiculous, especially in lieu of the money many of these athletes generate for their universities.

Blow up the NCAA, period. There's your best starting point.

Van · Post by **Van** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 4:29 pm

Mikey wrote:
Van wrote:Also, wasn't the majority of this story already floating around a couple months ago?

Same cast of characters, same allegations, same explanations/denials/"no comments"...
Yes. It was floating around during the season last year. If I remember right a lot of it came from some guy who got fired by the agent that Bush eventually hired, or an agent that Bush's stepdad had promised the business to but got dropped, or something like that.

That's about what I remembered. So, what's really new and significant here?

Big Picture time...

How many people here think this incident will result in Bush being stripped of his Heisman or USC being forced to forfeit any games/awards?

I say, nope. Won't happen.

SoCalTrjn · Post by **SoCalTrjn** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 4:36 pm

what happened was some shady agent wannabe's in San Diego contacted a licensed but clientless agent in San Diego with a plan to keep all of the Reggie Bush money in San Diego. They went to Reggies step father and attempted to use him to persuade Reggie into signing with them and leaving school early. When Reggie said he was going to sign with a real agency, these guys told everyone who would listen that Reggie was dirty so they would smear his name and make him less marketable.

Shawn Marion · Post by **Shawn Marion** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 5:12 pm

SoCalTrjn wrote:what happened was some shady agent wannabe's in San Diego contacted a licensed but clientless agent in San Diego with a plan to keep all of the Reggie Bush money in San Diego. They went to Reggies step father and attempted to use him to persuade Reggie into signing with them and leaving school early. When Reggie said he was going to sign with a real agency, these guys told everyone who would listen that Reggie was dirty so they would smear his name and make him less marketable.

Have you actually read either of the articles on yahoo?

When are you going to get to the part where Ornstein (Bush's current marketing agent) admits to paying for Bush/Bush family stuff (he says they paid him back) and negotiating deals on Bush's behalf during the 2005 season?

Jimmy Medalions · Post by **Jimmy Medalions** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 5:13 pm

It would be hard to argue that Bush wasn't aware of the stuff his family was part of. It pisses me off, if true, that he was given benefits directly. I don't have facts so it's hard to draw conclusions yet. Not looking good, though.

How selfish do these kids have to be - a university takes them in with a scholie in return for the opportunity to play sports. Without regard to the long term implications to their program, they do whatever they want. The equivalent of the 'Trojan Family' at every college is total BS. These guys are out for themselves only.

It's disconcerting to hear that former Oline coach Pat Rheul made the comment recently that Heritage Hall was swarming with 'unfamiliar faces'. Paraphrasing, he said "I know a cockroach when I see one". Not sure how you keep these shitbags from combing the campus and getting to players.

Keep in mind that everyone here is living in a glass house. OUfan can speak to it at the moment, but this is happening at every major program accross the country. Doesn't make it right, to be sure. It does, however, speak to the hypocrissy of many who want to slam the Trojans when their own teams are a few leaks away from the same kind of scandal. Texas or tOSU could be next, who knows.

In the end, I don't think USC will be sanctioned on a going-forward basis. I have a pit in my stomach regarding forfeitures of prior games. If Reggie loses his Heisman, fuck him. My loyalty will always be the program, not to some selfish fuck that had no respect for it.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 5:27 pm

Jimmy Medalions wrote:Not sure how you keep these shitbags from combing the campus and getting to players.

I think you could start by not having your head coach welcome them to practice with open arms. In the NFL, that's fine. It's like a kid having his parent watch. In college? Shut the fucking door, Pete.

Jimmy Medalions wrote:If Reggie loses his Heisman, fuck him. My loyalty will always be the program, not to some selfish fuck that had no respect for it.

Rack.

Van, don't turn this into a "college players should be paid" argument because one shitbag decided to put himself above everyone in the program. These kids are getting 20-40K gifts from the university. Most are also allowed into universitys they would have no chance of getting in to were it not for their ability on the field. Boo-fucking-hoo.

Jimmy Medalions · Post by **Jimmy Medalions** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 5:33 pm

Killian wrote:
Jimmy Medalions wrote:Not sure how you keep these shitbags from combing the campus and getting to players.
I think you could start by not having your head coach welcome them to practice with open arms. In the NFL, that's fine. It's like a kid having his parent watch. In college? Shut the fucking door, Pete.

To the extent this is true, fuck me. I'm not up on this but I'll take your word for it.

I could see the NCAA yanking our 2005 season...

SoCalTrjn · Post by **SoCalTrjn** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 5:36 pm

So what you're saying Killian, is that Pete Carroll is not only allowing agents to come to USC practices but he is also introducing them to Trojan players?

I can see that Pete is allowing alums and a few local celebrities in to practice but I dont recall seeing Pete intorducing Drew Rosenhaus or Leigh Steinburg to the team

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 5:43 pm

I'm going to have to go ahead and RACK the heck out of Mr Meds for being a true fan of his program, rather than its recent accomplishments. That post just screams "gets it."

Jimmy Medalions wrote:Keep in mind that everyone here is living in a glass house. OUfan can speak to it at the moment, but this is happening at every major program accross the country. Doesn't make it right, to be sure. It does, however, speak to the hypocrissy of many who want to slam the Trojans when their own teams are a few leaks away from the same kind of scandal. Texas or tOSU could be next, who knows.

**NikeU fan slowly backs away from thread**

If you had told me this would happen before-the-fact, I probably would have found it humorous. Now that it's a possible reality, I'm wishing it would go away, but not if it's true. The whole "we're SoAndSo University, those rules don't apply to us, we can do whatever we want" is intolerable and sad.

Van · Post by **Van** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 5:44 pm

Killian, it isn't just because of this one case, obviously. The NCAA is a sham; has been, for a long time.

As for the $20-40K gifts these guys receive, boo hoo is right. USC and Texas and OSU receive millions back in exchange for their paltry gifts. CF is a billion dollar industry. The players deserve a bigger piece of that pie.

College football athletes are more restricted in their ability to work and earn money than the rest of the students. That's just stupid.

All that being said, yeah, I agree with Jimma regarding the selfishness of the players and especially their gravy training parents who are willing to put programs in jeopardy over a little short term personal gratification.

What can I say? From the scheduling nonsense to the absurd rankings to the lack of a playoffs or Plus One on down to the anachronistic NCAA rules, dead beat parents, selfish athletes and scummy boosters and agents...I hate the whole enchilada.

The one and only thing I love is game day in Fall, which still manages to somehow overwhelm all this other ugly nonsense.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 5:53 pm

Van wrote:As for the $20-40K gifts these guys receive, boo hoo is right. USC and Texas and OSU receive millions back in exchange for their paltry gifts. CF is a billion dollar industry. The players deserve a bigger piece of that pie.

And as much as Meds post screams "gets it," Van's post screams "I'm a fucking idiit."

Van, you're a fucking idiot.

Tell you what, while you're signing those stipend checks over to Vince Young and Reggie Bush...since college studenst should NEVER struggle finacially, heaven forbid, and it's not like these guys are ever going to find their way out of the porrhouse, why don't YOU explain to the sofball players, 100M hurdlers, women's hoopsters, band musicians, and a whole host of other kids who may otherwise never see the inside of a college classroom, explain to them why they don't get to go to college, despite their hard work and decent grades, so that you can cut Reggie Bush a check, so he doesn't have to be poor for a couple of years.

Also, you might want to draft a letter to be given to the children of those almost-students-but-for-Van's-plan, explaining to them why their dad is now a jizzmopper instead of an engineer, and why they live in the hood.

Fucking idiot.

If I'm a wealthy booster/alum, and Van's asinine plan is implemented, that university just saw its last check from me.

Vito Corleone · Post by **Vito Corleone** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:12 pm

Here is a bit of irony

The last PAC 10 team to win a championship before USC was Washington.

And what happened shortly after Washington won a championship?

Just something to think about.

Vito Corleone · Post by **Vito Corleone** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:16 pm

Nolesy wrote:A new car? all I got was a couple pair of pants.

Sincerely, Peter Warrick

A couple pair of pants, all I got was 5 lbs of weed.

Sincerely, Romance Taylor

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:19 pm

Vito Corleone wrote:And what happened shortly after Washington won a championship?

They continued to rack up PAC10 Championships and Rose Bowl appearances for the next 10 years or so, right up until Newweasel fucked that program over, starting around 2002.

Was there a point here?

Jimmy Medalions · Post by **Jimmy Medalions** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:21 pm

[Dins]Once again Vito drops a post that screams "I'm an idiot".[/Dins] It's a fucking hoot that Vito thinks his program doesn't have ten or fifteen of these stories waiting in the wings to break. Guess Texas is the only program in Division I whose house isn't glass.

Fucking idiot.

Anyway, I don't think players getting paid will solve the problem. Agents will continue to court these kids with extra benefits. I don't have a problem with kids getting paid, mind you, I just don't think it solves the problem.

It seems to me that given the magnitude of this business, sports agents should be obligated to some kind of license. If caught breaking the rules, said license can be revoked and no team can cut a deal with the guy if it happens. Just daydreamin' over here...

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:27 pm

Jimmy Medalions wrote:[Dins]Once again Vito drops a post that screams "I'm an idiot".[/Dins]

Well, it's not Like UDub tore out Trojanfan's and Ducksfan's hearts(not to mention Bruinsfan, and even Hurrigangstafan, while we're at it)) all through the 90's and into the 00's, so at least he's got that going for him.

Vito Corleone · Post by **Vito Corleone** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:36 pm

Jimmy Medalions wrote:Waaaaaaaa Waaaaaa
Texas does it too! Waaaaaaa Waaaaaaa.

Got Proof?

If/When Texas gets caught paying players come and see me, I will be ready to eat my crow. Til then STFU and live with the fact that U$C is a pay for play school.

BTW Dins I don't really feel like looking up the Probation UDub got into for paying players in the early 90's but I'm sure some Pac 10 fan has that info on hand.

Vito Corleone · Post by **Vito Corleone** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:41 pm

I guess I do have time to look it up

[web]http://www.tulsaworld.com/SportsStory.a ... Huski54200[/web]

Washington's woes can be traced back to James' early 1990s teams. Not long after the Huskies went 12-0 and won the 1991 national championship, quarterback Billy Joe Hobert revealed that he had accepted a $50,000 loan from a family friend (not a coach, a booster or anyone affiliated with the university, James said). That sent the Pac-10 and the NCAA into an intensive investigation.

Four players testified they had been paid for jobs at which they didn't work, and another player was arrested for selling drugs in the dorms (charges were later dismissed). James said no player ever took an illicit dime, and he said no coach or player sanctions were ever meted out.

"We had the great year," James said, "then we just had the most negative publicity you could ever get."

James said the Pac-10 initially handed down a one-year probation, but when the league added another year and paid the university for lost TV money, "I said screw it. For all we'd done for this league? You've got not one coach's violation and not one player's violation, and you're going to do that? I'm done with this university, and I'm done with this league.' "

Cheating to win championship seems to be the real PAC 10 tradition