3 weeks in, here's my take on the season

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:25 pm

1.Brady Quinn is definitely the Heisman favorite!!
2.Charlie Weis deserves another 10 years on his contract. Let's see, Charlie is 11-4 overall with zero, count 'em.....ZERO wins over Top 25 teams and he already has himself a $3.3 million 10 year contract? Way to go Notre Dame, you arrogant SOB's. They lose too many starters to do anything next year regardless of the young talent they have, so next year we're going to hear "Fire Charlie" from the Irish fan base. Unlike Davie or Willingham, not even Notre Dame could afford to do that.
3.Chris Leak still makes a couple freshman mistakes a game. You can claim it's the Urban Meyer system, but I say they are just boneheaded decisions.
4.The Big-12 is horrible.
5.The Big-10 is good.
6.The SEC is one of the best conferences ever.
7.Illinois might be the worst Big-10 team ever. Zook is really turning it around!
8.Drew Tate is quite possibly the most valuable player in the nation.
9.Nebraska is NOT back. Big Red was very lucky to stay within 18 of a much superior USC team. Had Carrol wanted to, he could have toyed with them and named the score.
10.USC most likely pays EVERY one of their players good money to play football at SC. Carrol is scumbag and so is that entire football program.
11.Oklahoma got jobbed against Oregon.
12.Miami has flat out quit. Larry Coker is the worst head coach ever I don't care what his record and trophies say. Dude had too much talent a few years back to NOT compete for the national title. Give him an average roster and he wouldn't win a game.
13.Ohio State, Michigan, Iowa, West Virginia, Louisville, USC, Auburn, Florida, and Georgia can all claim to be national title contenders. I don't think I've ever seen it so wide open after 3 weeks. Gotta love it though.

Nolesy · Post by **Nolesy** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 6:12 pm

Some one help me here. I can't decide which is more pathetic. This bitch showing up AFTER Iowa beats ISU or the bitch actually thinking we give a rats ass about what his" thoughts are after week 3". Sad, very sad.

Mr T · Post by **Mr T** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:32 pm

Ill throw in...

#14 The ACC sucks donkey balls. Yet jeff bowden still gets owned.

Rack nolesy btw

King Crimson · Post by **King Crimson** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:44 pm

14. Colorado is a bad bad football team.

stuckinia · Post by **stuckinia** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:47 pm

Nolesy wrote:Some one help me here. I can't decide which is more pathetic. This bitch showing up AFTER Iowa beats ISU or the bitch actually thinking we give a rats ass about what his" thoughts are after week 3". Sad, very sad.

And if anyone watched that shit IA-IA ST game, they would know he is full if shit mentioning the phrases "Iowa is" and "a national title contender" without "not" jammed in between them.

Mr T · Post by **Mr T** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:48 pm

Didnt iowa about get beat by syracuse?

That is worthy of a drop in rankings if i have ever seen one.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:49 pm

Iowa has mastered the art of looking somewhat impressive while racking up mediocre win after mediocre win. They don't win on the road, and they rarely beat anyone of note.

Vito Corleone · Post by **Vito Corleone** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 2:19 am

How the hell is brady quinn the heisman front runner with the ass kicking he took yesterday?

It's early but right now the trophy is Troy Smith's to lose.

the only person close might be AD, but after a couple more losses that will change. :D

Cornhusker · Post by **Cornhusker** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 2:20 am

14. JON needs to apply a bullet in her mouth administerd by Smith and Wesson.

minorthreat · Post by **minorthreat** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 2:20 am

stuckinia wrote:
Nolesy wrote:Some one help me here. I can't decide which is more pathetic. This bitch showing up AFTER Iowa beats ISU or the bitch actually thinking we give a rats ass about what his" thoughts are after week 3". Sad, very sad.
And if anyone watched that shit IA-IA ST game, they would know he is full if shit mentioning the phrases "Iowa is" and "a national title contender" without "not" jammed in between them.

Exactly. If I ever hear Iowa fans say "The ISU-Iowa game means more to Cyclone fans" again, it will prove they are full of shit.

Husker4ever · Post by **Husker4ever** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 4:02 am

Mr T wrote:Didnt iowa about get beat by syracuse?

That is worthy of a drop in rankings if i have ever seen one.

^^^ gets it. I'll take a loss to Souther Cal AT the coliseum over squeaking one out over a garbage team like Syracuse. Nebraska would abuse Iowa...at Iowa.

stuckinia · Post by **stuckinia** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 4:10 am

Husker4ever wrote:
Mr T wrote:Didnt iowa about get beat by syracuse?

That is worthy of a drop in rankings if i have ever seen one.

^^^ gets it. I'll take a loss to Souther Cal AT the coliseum over squeaking one out over a garbage team like Syracuse. Nebraska would abuse Iowa...at Iowa.

But yall could never match up against a Drew Tate hissy fit. He might throw a helmet, stomp around, and maybe even call you a dirty name. B...E...N...That spells Heisman.

minorthreat · Post by **minorthreat** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 4:43 am

Husker4ever wrote:
Mr T wrote:Didnt iowa about get beat by syracuse?

That is worthy of a drop in rankings if i have ever seen one.

^^^ gets it. I'll take a loss to Souther Cal AT the coliseum over squeaking one out over a garbage team like Syracuse. Nebraska would abuse Iowa...at Iowa.

Agreed. Iowa beat us. I'll give them props for that. But they didn't show me anything that warrants them being 14th.

buckeye_in_sc · Post by **buckeye_in_sc** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:14 am

mTooL officially has competition...

can we throw some bait in the water for Trix and Babs???

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 12:30 pm

I'll tell you what, you can shut your fucking mouth right now. I didn't read any of your post but I already know it has shots at ND, FSU, the Big 12 and blows Iowa, Big 10 and the SEC.

You're a transparent pussy who decides to show up because his team is 3-0. And those are three quality victories.

Harvdog · Post by **Harvdog** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 12:35 pm

He will be gone after the 30th.

Nolesy · Post by **Nolesy** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 3:00 pm

Harvdog wrote:He will be gone after the 30th.

I believe the quality of his "takes" over the years suggest he never really was here.

Vito Corleone · Post by **Vito Corleone** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 3:06 pm

Welcome back JON, Mtool needed some company.

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:03 pm

This is funny.....You guys always give me what I want. Thank you very much.

I'll show up when I feel like it. If Iowa wins, maybe I'll show up. If they lose, maybe I'll show up. Occassionally, I just like to come in and piss you guys off and see you all get your panties in a bunch. Mission accomplished. Scoreboard Me.

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:22 pm

What's a matter Killian? Pissed off that you found out what a fraud Charlie Weis is and that he hasn't yet proven to be any better of a college coach than Davie or Willingham but now you arrogant a-holes can't fire the lardass???? No need to take your anger out on me, perhaps you should address your frustration with Kevin White. Ara Parseghian and Knute Rockne ain't comin' back!

L45B · Post by **L45B** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:43 pm

JonBitch wrote:Mission accomplished.

Not officially until your mouth is eternally plugged to a tailpipe.

Nolesy · Post by **Nolesy** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:44 pm

Amazing. This jack ass can show how much of a bitch she is in 3 post where as it would take mtool 10-15.

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:55 am

Wow Nolesy, that is some epic smack calling me a "She!" How'd you think that one up??

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:02 pm

I'll tell you what JON, if you want to debate the merrits of Weis vs. Willingham or Davie, I'll be more than happy to do it with you. But you would be bringing a knife to a gun fight. Well, any argument you get in the same could be said.

A one game ass kicking where ND turned the ball over 5 times equates to Weis being a fraud? What about a 20 point loss to your rival who is a middle of the pack Big 12 team? Or getting hammered by ETCU?

You'd be a lot more fun if you brought anything of substance to the table. As it is, it's the same as me hitting my punching bag. Great to get the frustrations out but what have you really acomplished?

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 2:41 am

Something of substance?

Well try this on for size....

I don't think Weis is a fraud because of the Michigan game. I think he's a fraud because he was given the largest contract any college coach has ever gotten after one year and everyone in the media seems to think the guy has accomplished something spectacular when that simply is not true. I'm not even going to bother trying to argue Willingham and Davie are better coaches because we both know how dumb of an argument that would be, but I can argue that both of those guys each had a season that was more impressive than last year. Now, they did lousy jobs of sustaining anything after their good season, but who's to say the same won't happen for Weis? I don't think a 2-3 loss season is out of the question this year and that would be disappointing for the preseason #3 team and to a fan base that is expecting nothing short of a BCS Championship game appearance. And correct me if I'm wrong, but all but 4-5 starters will be gone next year so even though the recruiting has been good lately, there's no way anyone could expect anything better than 7-5 with that kind of experience next year. After that it's all up to player development. If Weis and his staff do a good job of developing their talent, than 2008 and beyond could be very nice years. But again, this is something he hasn't proven. So basically your AD gave your coach, after one year, the largest contract ever before this coach has proven that he has the ability to sustain a program unlike the 2 previous coaches that he fired. Tell me how this doesn't wreak of desperation and arrogance out of your AD and boosters?

I hate Notre Dame because of this arrogance. They think they can compete with the frickin' NFL. Give me a break, the NFL is the ultimate league and Notre Dame is a good (no longer great) COLLEGE football program. They gave Weis that contract because they are trying to prove just how rich and powerful they are and that coaches wouldn't dare leave their program for any other job. Notre Dame isn't the only program with this type of arrogance I just single them out because of the national media's love fest for a program that hasn't done shit since 1993. Heck, when Bob Stoops went to Oklahoma all I heard from OU fans is Iowa can't compete financially with OU and that's why Stoops went there. Bull-fucking-shit! He went there because OU offered him the job while we were still searching for candidates. As for not being able to compete with them financially.... Kirk Ferentz currently makes $2.7 million per year, which is $200,000 more than Stoops. Notre Dame is using the same arrogance I heard from OU fans. They think their job is so much better than any other job. No it's not. That's what your AD is trying to prove by giving him this giant UNDESERVED contract and that irritates the living piss out of me. You guys outside this state have absolutely no idea just how wealthy our athletic department and boosters are. Take a look at how much we pay our coaches. Not only that but we just spend $90 million to renovate Kinnick Stadium, and the fund raising for that took about 10 seconds! Programs like Notre Dame aren't the only ones that can compete financially with the rest of the country regardless of what the media wants you to believe.

I also hate it that you guys can't join a fucking conference because you're so god damn greedy. Get in a fucking conference already! Fuck NBC.....I want to see Notre Dame join the big-10. You'd make enough money in the Big-10 and it would make the conference unstoppable in football. Geographically, athletically, and academically you're perfect for the conference.

The large contract given to Weis only makes me hate Notre Dame more than ever. He hasn't proven a damn thing at the college level and I'm tired of hearing about how great he is and how great the Notre Dame program is. I'm not saying Iowa gets no respect nationally, but for the media to sit their and whack off to ND when their program right now is NOT any better than Iowa's (or other similar programs) fucking pisses me off. Heck, we've won 5 bowl games since you won your last one. It's been nearly 20 years since your last national title and 13 years since your last bowl victory. Your program is nothing special anymore. You're never even in contention for a title. Yet the media likes to talk about how great ND is. Ohio State, Miami, Florida, Michigan, Oklahoma, Texas, USC, Florida State......those are the GREAT programs. Notre Dame is not in that category because they haven't done crap in the past 10 years. You're in the next group along with schools like Iowa, LSU, Virginia Tech, etc.. But for some reason your AD and the media think ND is still in the first group. No you're not. And I'm going to laugh my ass off if Charlie Weis falls flat on his face and then ND is reserved to an even lower group.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 1:22 pm

TheJON wrote: I don't think Weis is a fraud because of the Michigan game. I think he's a fraud because he was given the largest contract any college coach has ever gotten after one year and everyone in the media seems to think the guy has accomplished something spectacular when that simply is not true. I'm not even going to bother trying to argue Willingham and Davie are better coaches because we both know how dumb of an argument that would be, but I can argue that both of those guys each had a season that was more impressive than last year. Now, they did lousy jobs of sustaining anything after their good season, but who's to say the same won't happen for Weis? I don't think a 2-3 loss season is out of the question this year and that would be disappointing for the preseason #3 team and to a fan base that is expecting nothing short of a BCS Championship game appearance. And correct me if I'm wrong, but all but 4-5 starters will be gone next year so even though the recruiting has been good lately, there's no way anyone could expect anything better than 7-5 with that kind of experience next year. After that it's all up to player development. If Weis and his staff do a good job of developing their talent, than 2008 and beyond could be very nice years. But again, this is something he hasn't proven. So basically your AD gave your coach, after one year, the largest contract ever before this coach has proven that he has the ability to sustain a program unlike the 2 previous coaches that he fired. Tell me how this doesn't wreak of desperation and arrogance out of your AD and boosters?

So he's a "fraud" for recieving a contract extension? Overrated or unproven would work better, but fraud? Bullshit. And you can argue that Davie or Willingham had a better season than last year? Do it. Before you try, do your research. Willingham's first season was not more impressive, nor was Davie's Gator or Fiesta bowl years. Nice try. Also, do you know why White gave Weis the contract extension? Because a douche pump writer for the NFL.com decided to start calling around asking what the buyout was for Weis's contract. It was laughably low and when White approached Weis to sign a new contract to up the buyout, Weis told him not to bother because he wasn't going anywhere. After talking they both agreed that stories would persist if he continued his success so they signed the contract and added the 5 years to the end. The kicker? He's not getting anymore money during this 5 year run and if ND decides to terminate Weis before the extension takes effect, ND is not responsible for that portion of the contract.

Would this season be a disapoinment if they lost 2-3 games? Sure. ND fans were pointing at this season as a potential championship run because they know that if it didn't happen this year, it would be a minimum of 2 years (more likely 3) before ND had the talent and depth to compete for a NC.

He hasn't proved he can develop talent? Maurice Stovall, Jeff Samardzija and Brady Quinn. He had Stovall for 1 year and took him from a possible 7th round pick and turned him into a 3rd rounder. Samardzija went from a bench player who saw little time to an AA reciever. Quinn went from a 50% passer to one who is one of the top QB's in college football. I would say he has already proved himself as someone who can develop talent.

JON wrote:I hate Notre Dame because of this arrogance. They think they can compete with the frickin' NFL. Give me a break, the NFL is the ultimate league and Notre Dame is a good (no longer great) COLLEGE football program. They gave Weis that contract because they are trying to prove just how rich and powerful they are and that coaches wouldn't dare leave their program for any other job. Notre Dame isn't the only program with this type of arrogance I just single them out because of the national media's love fest for a program that hasn't done shit since 1993. Heck, when Bob Stoops went to Oklahoma all I heard from OU fans is Iowa can't compete financially with OU and that's why Stoops went there. Bull-fucking-shit! He went there because OU offered him the job while we were still searching for candidates. As for not being able to compete with them financially.... Kirk Ferentz currently makes $2.7 million per year, which is $200,000 more than Stoops. Notre Dame is using the same arrogance I heard from OU fans. They think their job is so much better than any other job. No it's not. That's what your AD is trying to prove by giving him this giant UNDESERVED contract and that irritates the living piss out of me. You guys outside this state have absolutely no idea just how wealthy our athletic department and boosters are. Take a look at how much we pay our coaches. Not only that but we just spend $90 million to renovate Kinnick Stadium, and the fund raising for that took about 10 seconds! Programs like Notre Dame aren't the only ones that can compete financially with the rest of the country regardless of what the media wants you to believe.

Is your bitter little rant over? Iowa may have money and may have more boosters than ND. They should, ND only graduates about 2,500-3,000 students a year. The real question is does your alumni/boosters have enough pull to oust a coach? Check mark, Notre Dame. Our AD isn't trying to prove shit, because he's an incompetent pillow biter.

As for Stoops v. Ferentz's contract, I wonder who makes more money on the speaking engagement tours? Part of not being able to compete with Oklahoma is that no matter what, the title "Oklahoma head coach, Bob Stoops" has more cache than "Iowa head coach, Bob Stoops".

JON wrote:I also hate it that you guys can't join a fucking conference because you're so god damn greedy. Get in a fucking conference already! Fuck NBC.....I want to see Notre Dame join the big-10. You'd make enough money in the Big-10 and it would make the conference unstoppable in football. Geographically, athletically, and academically you're perfect for the conference.

You want ND in the conference for your own personal, selfish reasons (because it makes the conferenc stronger, thus making Iowa stronger) but ND is the bad guy because they stay independent? If Iowa could pull it off financially, you'd bet their ass they would be doing the exact same thing. And the money made in the Big 10 would pale in comparison to the money ND can potentially make as an independent. It's too bad Fritz Chrisler was an anti-catholic bigot or you would already have your wish.

JON wrote:The large contract given to Weis only makes me hate Notre Dame more than ever. He hasn't proven a damn thing at the college level and I'm tired of hearing about how great he is and how great the Notre Dame program is. I'm not saying Iowa gets no respect nationally, but for the media to sit their and whack off to ND when their program right now is NOT any better than Iowa's (or other similar programs) fucking pisses me off. Heck, we've won 5 bowl games since you won your last one. It's been nearly 20 years since your last national title and 13 years since your last bowl victory. Your program is nothing special anymore. You're never even in contention for a title. Yet the media likes to talk about how great ND is. Ohio State, Miami, Florida, Michigan, Oklahoma, Texas, USC, Florida State......those are the GREAT programs. Notre Dame is not in that category because they haven't done crap in the past 10 years. You're in the next group along with schools like Iowa, LSU, Virginia Tech, etc.. But for some reason your AD and the media think ND is still in the first group. No you're not. And I'm going to laugh my ass off if Charlie Weis falls flat on his face and then ND is reserved to an even lower group.

Most of this was covered earlier but don't kid yourself. ND is a much better program than Iowa, and will be for years to come. Sure, ND will have a hiccup next year, but so will Iowa. And it doesn't matter if you think ND isn't special anymore, because Weis has recruits believing it is special, and that's all that matters. ND is still in the first group of programs you mention. Why? Because when they have a good season, they get treatment of the first group, as well they should. They've earned it over years of great play. The Backstreet Boys may have had some platinum records, but it didn't mean they were good musicians. On the same hand, Johnny Cash may not have had a platinum record for 20 years, but everyone knew he was a great musician and it was a matter of time before he had one again.

JON, I understand that you hate ND because you feel they get treated differently. They do and they should. I won't make any apologies for it. And I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for Weis to fall on his face.

orcinus · Post by **orcinus** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 2:43 pm

Rack the debate.

Sky · Post by **Sky** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 2:45 pm

OH, I don't know where to begin. I read Jon's rant first and after the first paragraph, I said "hey, maybe his time away has brought some clarity." But then I read the rest of the rant and the argument became so confused and petty and bitter that I just wanted to go off on Jon. But before that happens, I get to read Killian's superior race post and I almost completely forgot about Jon.

Jon, I think you had some good points in your first paragraph. Killian, I would somewhat agree with your response. I was thinking about it last weekend...why did I so enjoy watching Michigan beat ND. Did I really hate Charlie Weiss that much? Was it so horrible to look at his disgusting belly when he pulls his belt too tight. No, I think it comes down to this: because the media drools all over you ass like gods gift to CFB. You know what, to a degree they do the same thing to UM but at least UM has earned it.

But anyway, so I hate the media's reverence toward ND but right along with that, I hate their fans. And pretty much, that includes you when you make statements like:

I understand that you hate ND because you feel they get treated differently. They do and they should.

Horseshit, why should they get treated differently. Because you used to be good? We should honor you because you used to be good? So what happens when BYU makes a come back....do we all become mormons and take multiple wives? I mean shit, what if Yale, Harvard and Brown move to DI? Do we honor them because back in 1914 they won a National Championship?

And I kinda agree with Jon when he calls Weis a fraud. Whether it was the fans and media or he touted himself, the only people that see him as a proven top tier coach are catholics with rose colored glasses.

For example, just the other day we were talking about Weis and someone made the point of "just wait till he gets his players in the system." But then you pass this quote off on Jon:

He hasn't proved he can develop talent? Maurice Stovall, Jeff Samardzija and Brady Quinn. He had Stovall for 1 year and took him from a possible 7th round pick and turned him into a 3rd rounder. Samardzija went from a bench player who saw little time to an AA receiver. Quinn went from a 50% passer to one who is one of the top QB's in college football. I would say he has already proved himself as someone who can develop talent.

So what we have here is a win-win situation. If Charlie doesn't win, we can blame it on his players and focus on the future seasons when he has his type of players in the program. However, if he has success, it must be because he is a great developer of talent. For example: lets just look at the talent he developed and how it played out during the last two games against big opponents (OSU and UM). How did ND do in those games? And hell, maybe GT could even be considered a good team but we will have to see how the season plays out.

By that argument, I would questions his player development capabilities. So we must then focus on the recruiting aspect, correct? Well then, based on your presumed time line (2-3 yrs) that would be a total of 4-5 years to get things going. Isn't that a little longer timeline that what you give most of your coaches?

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:17 pm

First off Sky, you're not looking at his belly, you're looking at his gunt.

As for the "players in his system", I have never been one who has said that. Last Saturday, Weis was plain 'ol outcoached. I am a big fan of Weis, but I'm also not one who believes he is a top teir college coach. He has proven that he is an elite NFL OC. He has also had one good year in college football. Again, I will go with unproven before I go with fraud. He hasn't done enough to be considered a fraud.

As to the treated differently part, I can take a step back and see why everyone but ND fans hate it. I'm not going to be so self righteous as to say, "When ND is good it's good for college football." But I will say when ND is good, it's good for publishers, newspapers, websites, writers, clothing manufactures, radio personalities, etc. because Notre Dame sells. Lou Holtz had a great quote about preseason magazines and their rankings of Notre Dame. He said that if ND had a really good team, they would be in the top 5. If they had a good team, they would be in the top 10, if they had a decent team, they would be somewhere in the top 20. If they had an awful team, they would be in the 20-25 range. Before the advent of the internet, the subway alumni (myself included) would buy anything that talked about Notre Dame because nothing was written in the local papers. That mentality (in the media) still holds true, so ND gets more run than most because of this.

But as a ND fan, I do expect different treatment when ND is good because they get different treatment when they are bad. When ND fired Davie and decided to hire O'Leary over Willingham, they got roasted. When they fired Willingham, they got roasted even worse. ESPNNews had a half hour segment on the "disgrace at Notre Dame" and how ND would never recover after Meyer spurned them. Yet at the same time, when Zook was hired UF didn't even interview a black candidate and while Willingham was coach, MSU fired a black coach mid way through his third year. Why didn't those two events garner media attention? Because they didn't happen at Notre Dame. Notre Dame is one of, if not the most visable entity in college sports due in large part to their history and the NBC contract. They get undue shit and they get undue praise. It comes with the territory.

Don't make cracks about the length ND gives their coaches based on the Willingham debacle. ND tried to get rid of Faust and Davie after 3 years but the administration at the time wouldn't allow it. Willingham was on the heels of someone who had the second worst record as head coach at ND with at least 5 years on the job. Willingham had a great first year and two shitty years. He parlayed the great year into a good recruiting class which is the backbone of the 2006 team. Look at his other classes. They were ranked in the low 20's and high 30's. The junior class has 9 players left. When Willingham took over, everyone knew that his first year had the potential to be good but his second year should be better because of the amount of returning talent. What did he do, he shit the bed and went 5-7.

Put all of that aside and I guarantee you if at the end of 3 years he is 21-15 with 7 blow out losses of more than 20 points, his ass will be looking for a job as well. Or if he goes through a 10 game stretch at 2-8 where he is outscored nearly 3-1, he'll get the same treatment.

The administration knows that Chauncy left ND with a huge shit sandwich for the next coaching staff to deal with. Last year, ND had 7 scholarship offensive lineman. This year, there are more freshman in the two deep than juniors and soph's.

Terry in Crapchester · Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:21 pm

Killian wrote:
TheJON wrote:I also hate it that you guys can't join a fucking conference because you're so god damn greedy. Get in a fucking conference already! Fuck NBC.....I want to see Notre Dame join the big-10. You'd make enough money in the Big-10 and it would make the conference unstoppable in football. Geographically, athletically, and academically you're perfect for the conference.
You want ND in the conference for your own personal, selfish reasons (because it makes the conferenc stronger, thus making Iowa stronger) but ND is the bad guy because they stay independent? If Iowa could pull it off financially, you'd bet their ass they would be doing the exact same thing. And the money made in the Big 10 would pale in comparison to the money ND can potentially make as an independent. It's too bad Fritz Chrisler was an anti-catholic bigot or you would already have your wish.

Killian did a pretty good job dismantling JON already, but I had to weigh in separately on this point.

It never ceases to amaze me that Big Ten fan invariably shows up with "ND should join our conference," without even considering the history of the relationship between ND and the Big Ten. Turns out that keeping ND out because it was a Catholic school wasn't exactly the brightest idea to occur to the Big Ten, of course. Now, I suppose you could make the argument that those events happened a long time ago, and it's time to let bygones be bygones. But most of ND's fanbase doesn't want to do that.

Ask yourself a question, JON: why do you think it is that ND spurned the Big Ten, yet very nearly joined a conference with no member schools within 600 miles of ND's campus, and which primarily services the area of the country where ND's fanbase is the weakest? That should give you a long pause before ever suggesting the possibility of ND joining the Big Ten, imho (and lest my post be misconstrued, I am in no way suggesting that ND should have joined the ACC. Major pussy move on White's part for even considering that.) I'm realistic enough never to say never as to the possibility of ND joining a conference, but imho, too much bad blood has passed between ND and the Big Ten for ND to ever consider joining the Big Ten in anything but an extremely reluctant posture.

And ND is not independent because it is greedy. Rather, ND maintains its independence because independence is part of ND's football tradition. The TV contract is a means to an end (continued independence), not an end in and of itself. You'd have a point on the greed thing if ND had bolted a conference when NBC came calling, but we all know that's not what happened. ND was an independent long before it ever had a TV contract.

Jimmy Medalions · Post by **Jimmy Medalions** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:47 pm

JON=pwn3d has been run.

Terry in Crapchester · Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:52 pm

Jsc810 wrote:
Terry in Crapchester wrote:And ND is not independent because it is greedy. Rather, ND maintains its independence because independence is part of ND's football tradition.

Maybe at one point it was about tradition. Now it is all about the green.

Upon further review, you may have a point, although certainly the point differs from what you think it is.

ND gets about $9 million per year from the NBC deal. Of that amount, a certain portion goes to the visiting teams. What the NBC deal provides ND certainly isn't a trifle, but it pales in comparison to the amount of money ND pulls in from its boosters. As I've posted before, there is a minimum donation required for alumni to get into the ticket lottery, and that minimum amount was recently increased.

Certain prominent boosters (as in seven figures per year prominent) have publicly told ND that they would cut all donations to ND permanently in the event that ND ever joins a football conference. If they were to follow through, that would be a crushing blow, financially speaking, to our football program. So maybe staying independent is about the :bode:

after all.

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:29 am

Iowa should have more boosters than ND? ND may have a smaller alumni, but a much larger bandwagon errrrrrrrrrr fan base. I personally don't think you have to attend a school in order to be a true fan. But we all know that ND has a LARGE segment of their fan base that's never even stepped foot in South Bend. I know a lot of Iowa fans that never went to Iowa, but at least they're actually from the state and are familiar with Iowa City.

On to player development...... He's been there 1 damn year and that year was with Willingham's players. I think a lot of the improvement to guys like Stovall had more to do with them actually playing in a real system as opposed to that crap that Willingham used to run. Same goes for Quinn, along with being a year more experienced. My point is that you need to see what he can do over the course of a period of time before you give him a contract like that. I'm not trying to compare Steve Alford to Charlie Weis, but the situations are similar and while Steve is finally getting it turned around, Bob Bowlsby made a HUGE mistake by giving Alford a long term deal after winning a Big-10 tournament because he was afraid Steve would go take the Indiana job. When Alford got that contract, he had proven very little, it was just an irrational and arrogant move by Bowlsby. Same with Weis. You can say doing that was a knee-jerk reaction to an NFL.com article, I'll call it nothing but arrogance.

My main problem with Notre Dame is basically everything you have said. You deserve special treatment? Right there you're just proving how arrogant your program is. Why do you deserve special recognition? Because someone made a movie about a no-talent walk-on that played at ND? Your program hasn't done jack squat for quite some time. Anyone my age (26) and younger hardly even remembers Notre Dame being any good. Your program will always be CONSIDERED better than Iowa's because that's what the media tells everyone. We could win the next 10 national titles and you guys could not win a game in those 10 years and ESPN would still be beating off to ND and not giving much love to Iowa.

As for if our alumni/boosters have the pull to oust a coach........Fuck yes we do. We have the greatest coaching tree in perhaps the history of college football. I could give you a giant list of good coaches that are former players and/or coaches. Not only that but we've proven we can compete financially with anyone. That said, we don't need to pull a coach because we already have a great one that isn't going anywhere unless perhaps that Steelers job comes open.

And why do you say Iowa will also have a down year next year? We'll be MUCH better next year than this year and I think this years team is going to be a BCS team. Tate is a damn good quarterback, but other than him, basically the rest of the corps of this team is back and we have a very good young QB that will get some experience this year waiting in the wings. Jake Christensen is the real deal. He's the best young QB we've ever had. Next year will be Ferentz' first real national title shot.

Terry in Crapchester · Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:09 am

TheJON wrote:But we all know that ND has a LARGE segment of their fan base that's never even stepped foot in South Bend.

Point of clarification: ND is NOT in South Bend. The campus is outside South Bend city limits and has its own Post Office. As a matter of fact, it is possible, albeit somewhat unlikely, to attend and graduate from ND without ever setting foot in South Bend.

Nolesy · Post by **Nolesy** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:16 am

Terry in Crapchester wrote:
TheJON wrote:But we all know that ND has a LARGE segment of their fan base that's never even stepped foot in South Bend.
Point of clarification: ND is NOT in South Bend. The campus is outside South Bend city limits and has its own Post Office. As a matter of fact, it is possible, albeit somewhat unlikely, to attend and graduate from ND without ever setting foot in South Bend.

Kinda like the Vatican

Terry in Crapchester · Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:31 pm

Nolesy wrote:
Terry in Crapchester wrote:
TheJON wrote:But we all know that ND has a LARGE segment of their fan base that's never even stepped foot in South Bend.
Point of clarification: ND is NOT in South Bend. The campus is outside South Bend city limits and has its own Post Office. As a matter of fact, it is possible, albeit somewhat unlikely, to attend and graduate from ND without ever setting foot in South Bend.

Kinda like the Vatican

Sort of, although the Vatican is actually a separate country. But if you've ever been to both ND and to the Vatican, you'd know that ND is far more isolated, geographically speaking, from South Bend than the Vatican is from Rome.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 1:41 pm

TheJON wrote:Iowa should have more boosters than ND? ND may have a smaller alumni, but a much larger bandwagon errrrrrrrrrr fan base. I personally don't think you have to attend a school in order to be a true fan. But we all know that ND has a LARGE segment of their fan base that's never even stepped foot in South Bend. I know a lot of Iowa fans that never went to Iowa, but at least they're actually from the state and are familiar with Iowa City.

Do you know why they have a larger fanbase, JON? Because Rockne stuck a deal to be the first team broadcast nationwide on the radio. Why? Because he knew he would have to have a national schedule because the midwest power at the time, Michigan, wouldn't play ND. And after Rockne and ND were denied admission to the Western Confrence (later the Big 10) he set up the annual series with USC. This also created a large number of ND fans who didn't attend the school (subway alumni) which the school still considers a large part of their heritage. This is why ND wants to remain independent and have a national schedule.

JON wrote:On to player development...... He's been there 1 damn year and that year was with Willingham's players. I think a lot of the improvement to guys like Stovall had more to do with them actually playing in a real system as opposed to that crap that Willingham used to run. Same goes for Quinn, along with being a year more experienced. My point is that you need to see what he can do over the course of a period of time before you give him a contract like that. I'm not trying to compare Steve Alford to Charlie Weis, but the situations are similar and while Steve is finally getting it turned around, Bob Bowlsby made a HUGE mistake by giving Alford a long term deal after winning a Big-10 tournament because he was afraid Steve would go take the Indiana job. When Alford got that contract, he had proven very little, it was just an irrational and arrogant move by Bowlsby. Same with Weis. You can say doing that was a knee-jerk reaction to an NFL.com article, I'll call it nothing but arrogance.

No, Stovall's development had to do with Weis telling him to lose 20 pounds and regain some speed because he would never play WR in the NFL at 240 lbs. Quinn's development came because he had two people (Weis and Vaas) who could correct his mechanics and pound into his head that he didn't need to force the ball into triple coverage and go deep every time. In his first spring, Quinn threw a ball deep into double coverage when he had a back wide open for the first down. This is when Weis said, "Thats why you'll always be a 50% passer."

And if you read my post, Weis isn't getting any more money during this 5 year portion of his contract and if ND terminates him before the extension kicks in, they aren't responsible for that portion of the contract. Let me repeat this again, THEY DID ID TO UP THE BUYOUT. Maybe now you will understand it.

JON wrote:My main problem with Notre Dame is basically everything you have said. You deserve special treatment? Right there you're just proving how arrogant your program is. Why do you deserve special recognition? Because someone made a movie about a no-talent walk-on that played at ND? Your program hasn't done jack squat for quite some time. Anyone my age (26) and younger hardly even remembers Notre Dame being any good. Your program will always be CONSIDERED better than Iowa's because that's what the media tells everyone. We could win the next 10 national titles and you guys could not win a game in those 10 years and ESPN would still be beating off to ND and not giving much love to Iowa.

All the things you are saying about how ND hasn't won a bowl game since '93, a NC since '88, etc., you're right. They haven't. They are currently in their longest stretch in their history without a NC. It's been 18 years. How long has it been for Iowa? Before '03, how long was it for USC? Before '97, how long was it for Michigan? So yes, ND fans are arrogant and they shouldn't have to apologize for it.

You fail to see how the media/ESPN treats ND. There are 3 distinct cycles to ND coverage. The first is when they are bad. This is when you see people write and talk about how ND will not be able to recapture it's past glory and there needs to be a lowering of the academic standards and a softening of the schedule for ND to compete again. Then when ND starts to play well again, you see loads of undue praise in the forms of "Return to Glory", "ND is back!", and "Here come the Irish!"-type coverage. That's the current state. The last is a cycle that hasn't been seen since the Holtz days. When ND re-establishes itself as a perennial top 10 team, you will start to see the "ND sold it's soul for football glory", "Just another football factory" and "Tarnished Dome"-type coverage. ND is a cyclical program so these have been around forever. Rinse, recycle, repeat. Just change the dates and names.

JON wrote:As for if our alumni/boosters have the pull to oust a coach........Fuck yes we do. We have the greatest coaching tree in perhaps the history of college football. I could give you a giant list of good coaches that are former players and/or coaches. Not only that but we've proven we can compete financially with anyone. That said, we don't need to pull a coach because we already have a great one that isn't going anywhere unless perhaps that Steelers job comes open.

How does a coaching tree have anything to do with being able to oust your current coach? I highly doubt Iowa could pull that off, especially in the manner in which ND did. ND started a grass roots movement at a free site that led to the eventual termination of their head coach.

JON wrote:And why do you say Iowa will also have a down year next year? We'll be MUCH better next year than this year and I think this years team is going to be a BCS team. Tate is a damn good quarterback, but other than him, basically the rest of the corps of this team is back and we have a very good young QB that will get some experience this year waiting in the wings. Jake Christensen is the real deal. He's the best young QB we've ever had. Next year will be Ferentz' first real national title shot.

Of course, the back-ups are always better. Wasn't last year Ferentz' first real national title shot? I mean, you had them in the NC game with Tate in NYC. All 85 guys are NFL draft picks, right? And I'm sure you have as much knowledge of Christensen being the "real deal" as I do Demetrius Jones or Jimmy Clausen. You were saying the same thing 3 years ago about Drew Tate. 'Lil Jakey may be the real deal, but it will be his first year as a starter. There have been two NC teams that I can remember who were starting a brand new QB. USC in '03 and Tennessee in '98. What you failed to say is that next year is Ferentz' best shot because he doesn't have to play OSU or UofM. Maybe with your schedule you won't have a hiccup. Well, at least until the NC game. Replacing your QB, kicker, and possibly your running back will be very tough.

And if my browser eats this post again, I'm going to be really fucking pissed.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Fri Sep 22, 2006 2:06 pm

TheJON wrote:We have the greatest coaching tree in perhaps the history of college football

How do you expect anyone to take your "ND fans are homers and arrogant" whining seriously when you drop shit like this?

I take it you've studied the "coaching trees" at every other D1 school in order to know this, huh?

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 2:08 pm

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:
TheJON wrote:We have the greatest coaching tree in perhaps the history of college football
How do you expect anyone to take your "ND fans are homers and arrogant" whining seriously when you drop shit like this?

I take it you've studied the "coaching trees" at every other D1 school in order to know this, huh?

Or more specifically, Miami of Ohio.

Sky · Post by **Sky** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 2:36 pm

Rack that baby^^^ The cradle of coaches...its just too bad they can't keep any of them.