T1B

1. tOSU
2. Meat Chicken (I am starting to become a believer)
3. USC
4. Texas
5. WVU
6. Tennessee
7. Louisville
8. Florida
9. Notre Dame
10. Auburn
11. Kal
12. Clemson
13. LSU
14. OU (Gift for sooner fan for losing AD)
15. Nebraska
16. Boisie State

edited to include Notre Dame

1-OSU
2-Michigan
3-USC
4-Texas
5a-Florida
5b-Tennessee
5c-Auburn
8-Cal
9-W. Virginia
10-ND
11-Clemson
12-LSU
13-Oregon
14-Louisville
15-Boston College

Vito Corleone wrote:1. tOSU
2. Meat Chicken (I am starting to become a believer)
3. USC
4. Texas
5. WVU
6. Tennessee
7. Louisville
8. Florida
9. Auburn
10. Kal
11. Clemson
12. LSU
13. OU (Gift for sooner fan for losing AD)
14. Nebraska
15. Boisie State

No Notre Dame, when you have the only team to beat them ranked #2?

1. Ohio State
2. Michigan
3. USC
4. West Virginia
5. Texas
6. Louisville
7. Notre Dame
8. Tennessee
9. Florida
10. Auburn
11. LSU
12. Cal
13. Clemson
14. Oregon
15. Georgia Tech

I'll cop to having a tough time deciding between the SEC teams, which is why I bunched them all together.

1 - Ohio State
2 - Michigan
3 - West Virginia
4 - USC
5 - Louisville
6 - Texas
7 - Florida
8 - Tennessee
9 - Notre Dame
10 - Auburn
11 - California
12 - Clemson
13 - LSU
14 - Georgia Tech
15 - Arkansas

1. OSU, I refuse to refer to them as tOSU
2. MICH
3. USC, but they can only expect to scabdick so many wins, luck is running out
4. Texas
5. WV
6. Louisville
7. Florida, Auburn D scored two td's, doesn't happen generally
8. Cal
9. Auburn
10. ND
11. Tenn
12. LSU
13. Clemson
14. Oregon
15. Ark

1 OSU
2 Michigan
3 USC
4 Texas
5 WVU
6 Louisville
7 Tennessee
8 Auburn
9 Florida
10 Notre Dame
11 Cal
12 Arkansas
13 Oregon
14 Clemson
15 Georgia Tech

1. Ohio State
2. Michigan
3. USC
4. West Virginia
5. Texas
6. Louisville
7. Notre Dame
8. Auburn
9. Florida
10. Tennessee
11. California
12. Clemson
13. Nebraska
14. Georgia Tech
15. Arkansas
(16. LSU)

Terry in Crapchester wrote:

Vito Corleone wrote:1. tOSU
2. Meat Chicken (I am starting to become a believer)
3. USC
4. Texas
5. WVU
6. Tennessee
7. Louisville
8. Florida
9. Auburn
10. Kal
11. Clemson
12. LSU
13. OU (Gift for sooner fan for losing AD)
14. Nebraska
15. Boisie State

No Notre Dame, when you have the only team to beat them ranked #2?

1. Ohio State
2. Michigan
3. USC
4. West Virginia
5. Texas
6. Louisville
7. Notre Dame
8. Tennessee
9. Florida
10. Auburn
11. LSU
12. Cal
13. Clemson
14. Oregon
15. Georgia Tech

I'll cop to having a tough time deciding between the SEC teams, which is why I bunched them all together.

I knew I was forgetting someone, I will make the change and include them

Van wrote: 5a-Florida
5b-Tennessee
5c-Auburn

What is that crap? Make a decision, and stick to it.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:

Van wrote: 5a-Florida
5b-Tennessee
5c-Auburn

What is that crap? Make a decision, and stick to it.

I was thinking of doing the same thing, the SEC is such a cluster F. it is unreal, it is no wonder Tommy Tubber is the first coach to publically call for a playoff.

Yeah, it's tough to rank teams. But these aren't life-impacting decisions we're making here. We're doing this for fun. If later I turn out to be wrong, I'm pretty sure the consequence isn't having to watch my family fall into a pit of sharks and eels .

Yeah, we do this for fun...you make a decision based on what you've seen on the field of play, and you stick with it.

Okay, Mgo, fwiw...

5-Florida
6-Auburn
7-Tennessee

Of those three teams only Tennessee hasn't beaten any of the other SEC "heavyweights" this season.

Fwiw, Part II...

I could easily include LSU in there as well. A couple calls go their way instead of fucking them and they're right there too. To me, the LSU D is the one and only dominant unit in the SEC. Problem is, they have no O when it matters. Really, neither does Auburn, whose D also looks suspect. Florida and Tennesssee are the two most balanced teams of the four but I don't think either team is all that dominant on either side of the ball. Between the two though, I'd at least choose Florida's D.

Then there's...Arkansas. Arkansas has the best win in the SEC to date this season. They're the only one of the group to go on the road against one of the other four and win convincingly. No bullshit calls by the refs, no living off of flukey miscues by the other team. Arkansas just went into Jordan-Hare and kicked Auburn's ass.

Fwiw, Part III...

I think they're all overrated. Tubberville complains that no one SEC team can rise to the top since they all beat each other. True. It's also true that no one team from the SEC should rise to the top since all they do is beat each other.

Their rankings are assumed, seemingly from birth, and then they never fall. Without ever testing themselves against anyone else they just replace each other as they beat each other.

Wait, there are two exceptions there. Two teams in the SEC did in fact play somebody decent from outside the conference. Granted, those SEC teams still got the games on their home field but at least they made the effort.

Of course the one undefeated-in-conference team in the SEC, the one with the best conference win to date this season, is Arkansas. We all know what happened when they ventured outside the SEC to play a decent team from another conference.

What are we to make of all this?

I think it's entirely possible that all these interchangable SEC teams are just good, with none of 'em truly being a real Top 5 level squad, not this year. Weird situation though, since we may never really know. The only "barometer" games so far were Tennessee-Cal, which is now looking like a real anomaly for Cal, and Arkansas-USC, which was the one game this season in which USC truly rolled...

Wtf. I think it's Ohio State or Michigan (the winner there, and I'm still inclined to think it'll be Ohio St) and then it's a BIG gap in quality to USC, Texas, ND or whoever ends up at #2.

Assuming the Big Ten winner runs the table I do know that there's no way I'd give #2 to either W. Virginia or Louisville (or Boise St, obviously), not even if one of 'em is undefeated, not as long as there's some other one loss team out there from among USC, Texas, ND, Cal, Oregon, Ohio St, Michigan, Florida, Tennessee, Arkansas or Auburn.

Only way I let the Big East winner into the title game is if they're undefeated and there aren't at least two other undefeated or one loss teams standing from that list of teams.

There's no way Boise St gets in, under any circumstances. I'd take a two loss team from that list before I'd take Boise St.

Van wrote: What are we to make of all this?

That a person who ranks Florida ahead of the team that beat them...yesterday...may be of suspect intelligence.

You don't watch much CFB, do you Van? If you do, it doesn't really show in your posts.

There are actually other teams that don't call SoCal home...really.

While I have a strong dislike for all things SEC...too many reasons to list, but their arrogant, less-than-bright fans probably top the list, or take second to their pathetic scheduling anyway...

But that said, the upper crust of the SEC is looking SHARP this season(damn, that hurt to type). I hate the way they play, I hate the lame pace-of-play, and I hate the fact they celebrate their victories by fucking their cousin.

But Auburn, Florida, Tenn, Arkansas, LSU(although most of my LSU exposure this season is strictly through highlights)...all looking like well-oiled football machines.

Dins, I was less impressed with Auburn's two shaky home wins over Florida and LSU than I am by Florida's road win over Tennessee and their more convincing win over LSU.

Factor in Auburn's near loss to S. Carolina and nope, I'm just not prepared to say that Auburn is better than Florida. Let those two teams play on a neutral field and I think Florida wins more than half the time.

Besides, if you put Auburn over Florida then what do you do with Arkansas? They beat Auburn much more handily than Auburn beat Florida, and they did it on Auburn's home field.

The problem here is everybody's beating each other so just about every head to head match up is cancelled out by some other head to head match up. My gut feeling is that so far Florida has played better overall than Auburn, so that's why I picked them ahead of Auburn. If you or I were trying to truly be fair about this we'd have to rank Arkansas above ALL the other SEC teams right now. They've only lost once, and it was to the BCS's #2. Beyond that, they're undefeated in the SEC and they already own wins over 'Bama and Auburn.

By any fair measure we'd have to vote Arkansas #1 among all the SEC teams right now...but nobody's doing it, are they? No, they're not.

So, no, head to head match ups are not the sole determining factory in this instance.

Keep fishing, cunt.

As much as I hate to use my own rooting interest as an example, since I obviously have more objectivity when discussing two teams that I wish death upon, like Auburn and Florida...

Van wrote:8-Cal
13-Oregon

Based upon what?

Cal beat Oregon?

That's not admissable evidence...by your standards.

Oregon beat OU, a team that was looking pretty darn good at the time. Cal lost to Tenn. And those whacky PAC10 teams beat each other all of the time. I mean, if you factor in USC's "near-loss" to ASU, then OBVIOUSLY Oregon is the #3 team in the nation...following...whatever sort of fucked up logic you're trying to dig yourself out of the hole you dug with.

Auburn beat Florida, I'm pretty sure...that's right, it was last night. By my estimation, that's BY FAR the best indicator we have as to which is the better team of the two. And I think anyone who somehow convolutes their brainwaves to the point where that isn't the best indicator available...well, they not very smart.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you one of the many people who clamor for a D1 playoff?

What's the point, since BY YOUR STANDARDS, head-to-head matchups aren't the best indicator of which team is better?


Your zeal to monopolize stupid is overriding your common sense.

Cal crushed Oregon, dunce.

Auburn squeaked by Florida.

Arkansas stomped Auburn.

Dance, dunce.

I swear half the PAC fans learned the game of football behind a playstation controller.

I'm sure of OSU and UM as 1 and 2. I haven't had the pleasure of watching many SEC or PAC games this year - yet.

OK, so if a team just barely loses to another team, it means they're actually better than the other team.

Got it.


Keep throwing that "dunce" tag around though.


PSU -- Check out some of the upper-tier SEC teams when you get the chance. I'm a devout SEC hater, but damn, they're playing some darn good football this season, moreso than recent years, imo.

And throw out their respective hiccups, and Cal and Oregon are looking sharp, as well. USC, while hanging on to their throne for the moment, is looking like a shadow of their former selves, and is looking quite beatable, something that hasn't been much of an issue in recent years.

1. Ohio State
2. Michigan
3. USC
4. West Virginia
5. Texas
6. Louisville
7. Auburn
8. Florida
9. Tennessee
10. Notre Dame
11. California
12. Clemson
13. LSU
14. Georgia Tech
15. Nebraska

Your zeal to monopolize stupid is overriding your common sense.

I laughed.

Ohio St
USC
Michigan
Texas
Florida
Auburn
Arkansas
Cal
Oregon
Tennessee
Notre Dame

The state of competitive balance within the top ten in CF is so alive and there. Although OSU and Michigan are probably a cut above the rest, I just don't see huge differences between any of these teams above. I think they all could beat each other on any given day, including Michigan and OSU. If any of 'em were to wind up playing for a championship, I'd be a happy viewer.

Dinsdale wrote:OK, so if a team just barely loses to another team, it means they're actually better than the other team.

Got it.

Try to keep up here Dins. I know it's tough for you, coming off a shitfaced weekend, so I'll try to keep this really simple for you...

-Cal crushed Oregon. They didn't barely beat them, they destroyed them. Oregon has no wins on its schedule that are nearly impressive enough to balance that loss. So, I rank one loss Cal above one loss Oregon.

-Florida has one loss. It came on the road, to Auburn, in a nail biter that turned on a crazy fluke of a dropped snap by Florida's punter. Florida played Auburn well. That game was basically a toss up. Meanwhile, Florida has two key wins: Tennessee, in Neyland, and they handily beat LSU in the The Swamp.

-Auburn has one loss. It was a fuggen BAD loss, at home to unranked (at the time) Arkansas. Auburn also looked bad against S. Carolina, where they escaped having to go to O.T. through sheer luck, when S. Carolina's receiver dropped a tap in of a TD catch. So, two bad perfomances. Auburn owns a highly controversial squeaker of a home win against LSU, a team which was beaten much more easily by Florida. Auburn also owns a home field squeaker of a win over Florida, a hard fought win that was nevertheless largely the result of simple good fortune. Auburn didn't force that dropped snap. If that punter merely catches a perfect snap Auburn might very easily be sitting here with two losses. Basically, Auburn's surviving off of bad calls and good fortune. They haven't looked very good in any big game this season.

-The SEC has three one loss teams, all bunched closely together in the BCS standings. Florida beat Tennessee. Auburn beat Florida. Arkansas beat Auburn.

-If we go by head-to-head matchups, which is how you want to do it, Arkansas must be given the highest ranking of any SEC team. They're undefeated in conference and they own the most impressive win in conference, over the very team you wish to give your highest ranking. Unfortunately, nobody here is prepared to give them that ranking, mainly because they aren't one of those SEC teams who receive a high ranking from birth. Unlike the traditionally overrated SEC teams, hey, Arkansas doesn't begin each season with a Top 10 ranking by default.

-Taking all this into account, I feel the only fair way to grade these teams is by not relying solely on just one head-to-head matchup. I can't give Auburn the nod over Florida unless I'm also willing to give Arkansas the nod over Auburn and, by extension, Florida and Tennessee too. Nope. Too many other factors at play there, many of which cancel each other out. So, I'm going with the overall season, not just a single game on the schedule. So far, using the entire season's performance as my yardstick, I believe Florida has looked better overall than Auburn.

Keep throwing that "dunce" tag around though.

Where you're concerned, and as long as you keep up with the vacuous baiting, I will.

And throw out their respective hiccups, and Cal and Oregon are looking sharp, as well.

Cal's loss is looking like a hiccup. Oregon's loss looks legit. Minus any marquee wins, Oregon got thoroughly roasted in their lone barometer game this season.

USC, while hanging on to their throne for the moment, is looking like a shadow of their former selves, and is looking quite beatable, something that hasn't been much of an issue in recent years.

Yep. I'll be damn surprised if USC arrives unscathed to the ND game. Oregon could get 'em. I think I'd even favor Cal to get 'em. Of late USC is showing zero killer instinct. They just won't close the deal. Getting up big and then relaxing against the Washington schools and ASU might've worked but it won't work against teams with offenses like Oregon's and especially Cal's.

If USC wasn't getting all these upcoming big games at home I'd think they'd be a dead nuts lead pipe lock to lose at least one of 'em. However, they are getting 'em at home this go 'round and Cal has yet to prove they can go on the road and win a big game.

Will Cal be able to sack up and win the Pac 10 and a BCS bid (Rose or possibly even the title game, if everything breaks exactly right for them), something Cal's never managed in our lifetime? Will they be able to go do it on the road, at the Coliseum, with the whole nation again watching and waiting for the other shoe to drop on Cal, as it always does in games like that?

I'm just not sure that such a moment won't prove to be too much for a team as traditionally gutless as Cal. Assuming USC can get past Oregon to arrive still undefeated to the Cal game USC might just win another ugly one there, purely on will, balls and muscle memory.

Van wrote:Oregon got thoroughly roasted in their lone barometer game this season.

Uhm...

Nevermind...

Once again.


You...not very smart.

Didn't Cal get roasted in a "barometer game"?

Hello?


Do you actually follow CFB Van? Because from your "takes," it sure doesn't look that way.

It is one thing to get beat, even badly on the road but getting smoked at home is something completely different, thats why Arkansas, Notre Dame and Auburn shouldnt be ranked high, they were never even in the games that they lost at home.

1. Ohio State
2. Michigan
3. West Virginia
4. Louisville
5. Southern California
6. UC Berkeley
7. Texas
8. Florida
9. Georgia Tech
10. Boston College
11. Boise State
12. Notre Dame
13. Arkansas
14. Oregon
15. Auburn

SoCalTrjn wrote:14. Oregon
15. Auburn

As much as I'm liking that, I just dunno...

Then again, if the SEC teams didn't schedule like whimpy little schoolgirls, we'd be much better able to compare and contrast what a run-and-gum PAC team could be expected to do against a "3 and punt" SEC team.

But, since Auburn is terrified to come out West, it makes it tougher. Sure, Tenn laid the wood to Cal, but Cal was in disarray at the time. I put less creedence in laying an egg on opening day playing a tough roadie than if the same thing happened later in the season.

Van wrote:Cal's loss is looking like a hiccup. Oregon's loss looks legit.

Are you fukking kidding? The anal plungering that the Vols hit Cal with is hardly a hiccup, no matter how you spin it.

Cal is a pretty good team, but you trying to downplay their loss for the sake of being on the losing side of an argument is silly, at best.

SoCalTrjn wrote:It is one thing to get beat, even badly on the road but getting smoked at home is something completely different, thats why Arkansas, Notre Dame and Auburn shouldnt be ranked high, they were never even in the games that they lost at home.

You might want to remove Texas as well, given that criteria.

Dins, you're becoming a full on retard.

Cal got roasted, yes, by Tennessee, in their first game of the season. Tennessee is a highly ranked team.

Oregon got roasted...by Cal. Cal didn't just eke out a controversial or flukey win. They destroyed Oregon. So, all things are equal there. We can go by their head-to-head matchup.

Until you're willing to amend your rankings to show Arkansas being your highest ranked SEC team your argument holds no water. I've already addressed the flaws in your argument so either refute what I said or STFU already...

Texas gave up 24 points, not 40 or 50.

I have Oregon ahead of Auburn because Oregon lost on the road vs a team probably playing as well or better than any other team out there (at home anyway) and who is balanced on offense. Aubrun lost to a one trick pony who gave up 50 points at home in their only true OOC test. Plus I rank teams who only play 4 road games lower automatically cause why should I have confidence in them when their own AD's dont?

Texas got their ass kicked up and down the field and their lone TD was a gift.

Either way, Texas was beat by more than two scores at home.

and if I didnt have a Big 12 team ranked Id have the other half of this forum questioning my rankings

besides I had them at 7, go question those fuckers who had them in the top 5

Obvious question time...

Texas was beaten at home, soundly, by the BCS #1. No great disgrace there. Because it was OSU the Texas loss isn't viewed all that harshly. Most of us here still have Texas ranked pretty highly.

The BCS doesn't though, and it's surely down to their weak SOS and the fact that they lost at home to the one team that could truly help their SOS.

Meanwhile, there's Arkansas. They started the season unranked. They lost at home, soundly, to the BCS #2. No great disgrace there. From that point on they're undefeated, and they lead the SEC West, including wins over 'Bama and a huge road win at Auburn.

So, why isn't Arkansas even involved in any of the SEC rankings discussions? Compared to Arkansas, what have any of the higher ranked SEC teams done to earn their higher rankings?

Michigan was allowed to quickly rise from their initial low ranking to their current high ranking, based largely on their road destruction of highly ranked ND. Arkansas accomplished the same thing, in an even tougher environment, later in the season, in conference.

Seems to me that with all the rankings love being shown towards Florida, Auburn and Tennessee that Arkansas is truly getting the shaft right about now...by all of us here, not just the AP, UPI, Harris or BCS polls.

Dinsdale wrote: Then again, if the SEC teams didn't schedule like whimpy little schoolgirls, we'd be much better able to compare and contrast what a run-and-gum PAC team could be expected to do against a "3 and punt" SEC team.

Cal and WSU both got shellacked by the '3 and punt'. Yeah, yeah...it's at home. Made several TDs difference.

The PAC has to go on the road. If the SEC played two hours behind the bulk of the viewing football audience, it would be the same story. That said, one road game at Arkansas or UT or Fresno State isn't exactly offsetting a top-heavy schedule of teams that would be hard pressed to win in the MAC.