T1B

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/BCSStandings


http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/rankings?pollId=1 <---AP

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/rankings?pollId=2 <---Coaches

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/rankings?pollId=5 <---Harris

Sounds good to me. They're a two loss team with zero quality wins.

So they should be rewarded for losing to two good in-conference teams?

There'd be a huge controversy if the final BCS standings wound up like this . . .

• Boise State guaranteed an at-large bid.
• ND finishing .0001 points out of the #8 spot, which would guarantee ND an at-large bid.
• Either Louisville (#5), Auburn (#6) or ND (#9) would be left out of the BCS (that assumes that the top-ranked teams out of each conference earned automatic bids)

Still cracks me up that Florida is ranked above Auburn ('sup, Dins!) and that they're both ranked WAY above Arkansas, who's outperformed both of 'em so far this season, in the same conference.

Guess that whole W-L thing and that Common Opponent thing and even that Head To Head Matchup thing just don't matter much these days...

Van wrote:Still cracks me up that Florida is ranked above Auburn ('sup, Dins!)

Auburn has struggled a little bit on the road, against two teams they should have beaten handily (South Carolina and Ole Miss), hence the ranking below Florida, at least imho. Fortunately for Auburn, they only play four road games this season.

and that they're both ranked WAY above Arkansas, who's outperformed both of 'em so far this season, in the same conference.

Guess the preseason polls count for something after all.

Still, christ, Arkansas destroyed Auburn on their own field, and they're the only undefeated team in SEC conference play. Also, they destroyed the same team that beat Florida.

So, they've got both Auburn and Florida covered in terms of W-L, Common Opponent and Head To Head.

That really ought to count for more than it apparently does, especially in light of how far and how quickly Michigan has risen from their low preseason ranking.

Michigan primarily built their rep this season on their road game demolition of ND. Well, Arkansas' road game demolition in conference over the even higher ranked Auburn Tigers should boost Arkansas at least as much as Michigan's win over ND boosted Michigan.

I'm not saying Arkansas should be ranked as high as Michigan, obviously, but they sure as hell deserve a higher ranking than anybody else in the SEC, especially Auburn.

Just sayin'.

Van wrote:Still, christ, Arkansas destroyed Auburn on their own field, and they're the only undefeated team in SEC conference play. Also, they destroyed the same team that beat Florida.

So, they've got both Auburn and Florida covered in terms of W-L, Common Opponent and Head To Head.

That really ought to count for more than it apparently does, especially in light of how far and how quickly Michigan has risen from their low preseason ranking.

Michigan, at least, was ranked in the preseason. I don't believe Arkansas was.

Michigan primarily built their rep this season on their road game demolition of ND. Well, Arkansas' road game demolition in conference over the even higher ranked Auburn Tigers should boost Arkansas at least as much as Michigan's win over ND boosted Michigan.

Scratching my head on this one. ND was ranked #2 heading into the Michigan game. Since tOSU has held the #1 spot all year, I'm not sure how Auburn could have been higher ranked than ND at the time they played Arkansas.

Plus, Arkansas got their win at home, whereas Michigan got theirs on the road.

I'm not saying Arkansas should be ranked as high as Michigan, obviously, but they sure as hell deserve a higher ranking than anybody else in the SEC, especially Auburn.

Just sayin'.

Don't shed any tears for Arkansas. They control their own destiny in the SEC West. If they win out, they'll be in the SEC championship game. Win that, and they will be the highest-ranked team in the SEC.

Of course, you being USC fan and all, it would benefit your team if they were ranked a little higher right now. :wink:

Terry in Crapchester wrote:There'd be a huge controversy if the final BCS standings wound up like this . . .
[*]Boise State guaranteed an at-large bid.

They're in right now even without be ranked high enough for their guaranteed spot due to the highest ranked ACC being ranked below them. How much controversy would there be if they stayed at #14 and the ACC Champion stayed below them?

Terry, Arkansas crushed Auburn in Jordan-Hare, not in Little Rock. That was the most compelling win in the SEC so far this season.

If ND was also ranked #2 when Michigan beat them then yep, I stand corrected. Arkansas and Michigan both went in and beat #2 in their own house.

Auburn's still ranked higher than ND now though, even though Auburn lost more recently. Obviously, rightly or wrongly, Auburn is still more highly regarded than ND. Also, Arkansas' win was in conference, which traditionally means more to Auburn than a Michigan loss means to ND...

What is really funny is all the speculative talk midway through the season and how it all works out in the end, sans Auburn.

Van wrote:Also, Arkansas' win was in conference, which traditionally means more to Auburn than a Michigan loss means to ND...

Disagree with this. Aside from USC, Michigan is probably ND's biggest rival, traditionally speaking.

There are plenty of other teams who have played ND more often than Michigan has, but Michigan cancelled the series unilaterally for two rather extended periods. That led to some bad blood, at least on ND's side.

Don't kid yourself, Michigan is as important a game for ND's fans as any other. Aside from Alabama and possibly Georgia, there isn't a game that means as much to Auburn.

Conference, vs non conference.

ND's loss to Michigan won't necessarily keep them from achieving their primary goal. That game is always so early in the year that ND will always have time to recover in the BCS standings. Auburn's loss to a fellow SEC West opponent might very well see them missing out on playing in their own conference's championship game and if they don't get to that game they can sure as hell forget about having any shot at playing for the BCS championship.

Van wrote: Auburn's loss to a fellow SEC West opponent might very well see them missing out on playing in their own conference's championship game and if they don't get to that game they can sure as hell forget about having any shot at playing for the BCS championship.

That's not necessarily true. You can go back to the Nebraska team that played Miami in the Rose bowl for that. I'm sure there is still a way for Auburn to get to the BCS Title game without having to play for the SEC title. Many things would have to happen for them, but it's not out of the realm of possibility.

Mucho, I just don't see such a possibility in this instance...

If Arkansas goes on and represents the West in the SEC CCG then either Arkansas or the team that beats them from the SEC EAST (Florida or Tennessee) will end up with the SEC's highest BCS ranking.

Now, hold on, let's see here...

What if Arkansas gets in from the West. From the East, let's say a two loss Florida team beats 'em in the CCG. At that point Auburn would be the SEC's only remaining one loss team and yet they wouldn't be the SEC champ. A two loss (with both losses coming in conference!!) Florida team would then be the SEC's champion, even over one loss Auburn...who beat Florida, head to head.

So, what would we have there?

First off, we'd have all the proof we ever need (as if we ever needed any more) that the whole CCG is a complete farce and an utterly cynical money grabbing waste of time. We'd also have a situation whereby Auburn, even lacking that CCG win and any other late season S.O.S. quality wins, might still be sitting there as the SEC's likely highest ranked team.

Would they then go to the BCS title game?

Nope, probably not. Among other one loss title game aspirants the BCS formula would almost certainly end up landing in favor of some other one loss team or possibly even two loss SEC champ Florida.

What a colossally fucked up system! LOL!!

Van, it could happen. The likelihood is very slim and in looking at how far back the #3 team in the BCS (WVU) from the top 2. The Michigan/Ohio State loser shouldn't drop all that much in BCS points, so you could almost have both of those teams playing again for the National Championship.

Still a good deal of football left before things get decided.

As futile as it is I have to become a fan of a$m because the higher they are in the rankings at the end of the year the better chance Texas has of impressing the computers with a quality win. I also have to hope that Nebraska takes care of business the rest of the year and gives us a quality opponent in the Big 12 title game.

Finally with the way things are shaping up the only thing that is going to keep West Virgina out of the championship game is a loss. Their schedule is not as big a factor as we are led to believe.

BTW speaking of WVU, who the hell are the two dumbasses that gave them 2 first place votes in the AP? There are no first place votes for Michigan but there are for WVU? Makes me realize how screwed up the AP was, and how glad I am that they are no longer part of the system.

Do any of you actually think that Arkansas will beat South Carolina, Tenn and LSU to close out the season? I'll bet money that shit doesn't happen.

No, I don't, but then again you also would've bet money that Arkansas wouldn't walk right through Jordan-Hare...

Van wrote:Conference, vs non conference.

So what? Every game ND plays is a non-conference game. Are you going to say that every game ND plays is less important for them than, say, Auburn's game vs. Mississippi State is to Auburn?

Specifically, as to Michigan, they taught ND how to play football and were ND's first oppoent. ND, as you're probably aware, has eight permanent or semi-permanent opponents, although the roster changes somewhat from time to time. Currently, those eight are BC (although this one is in a state of flux; they haven't played ND since '04, are due to play ND next season but that game is the last one scheduled for awhile. ND may be picking up Rutgers to replace this, as Rutgers is on the schedule every year from '10 to '16), Michigan, Michigan State, Navy, Pitt, Purdue, Stanford and USC. I say "permanent or semi-permanent" because, in any given year, ND might skip one or more of those games (the only ones that have been played for more than a decade straight are Navy, Purdue and USC), but more recently, ND has played all of these teams far more often than not.

Anyway, Michigan has had a direct or indirect effect on the presence of no less than four of those teams on ND's schedule. Itself, obviously. Also, Michigan State and Purdue, since Michigan was unwilling to play ND for several decades at a time on two separate occasions. (Incidentally, that backfired on Michigan in more ways than one -- as a result of their series with ND, Michigan State decided to upgrade seating capacity in Sparty Stadium, which led to their eventual membership in the Big Ten over Michigan's objection.) The fourth one is . . .






Wait for it . . .











USC. Yep, ND started scheduling USC to gain a nationally significant rival after Michigan maneuvered the Big Ten to reject ND's membership application. Thus, ND-USC might very well never have come to be had ND joined the Big Ten in the first place (you might want to think about that before the next time you advocate ND joining the Big Ten, just sayin').

Given the impact Michigan has had on ND football, it borders on blasphemy to suggest that a conference matchup for Auburn against a conference member who didn't join their conference until 1992 means more to Auburn than the Michigan game means to ND.

ND's loss to Michigan won't necessarily keep them from achieving their primary goal. That game is always so early in the year that ND will always have time to recover in the BCS standings.

ND's primary, although not necessarily realistic, goal every season is to win a national championship. So while you're correct in stating that a Michigan loss won't necessarily keep them from achieving that, any one-loss team is gonna need an awful lot of help to win a national championship.

Auburn's loss to a fellow SEC West opponent might very well see them missing out on playing in their own conference's championship game and if they don't get to that game they can sure as hell forget about having any shot at playing for the BCS championship.

We disagree.

Regards,

2001 Nebraska

MuchoBulls wrote:Van, it could happen. The likelihood is very slim and in looking at how far back the #3 team in the BCS (WVU) from the top 2. The Michigan/Ohio State loser shouldn't drop all that much in BCS points, so you could almost have both of those teams playing again for the National Championship.

OTOH, WVU has two games remaining against teams that are still undefeated at this juncture (Louisville and Rutgers). Win both, and they figure to climb in BCS points, particularly at the computer end.

Van wrote:Mucho, I just don't see such a possibility in this instance...

If Arkansas goes on and represents the West in the SEC CCG then either Arkansas or the team that beats them from the SEC EAST (Florida or Tennessee) will end up with the SEC's highest BCS ranking.

Now, hold on, let's see here...

What if Arkansas gets in from the West. From the East, let's say a two loss Florida team beats 'em in the CCG. At that point Auburn would be the SEC's only remaining one loss team and yet they wouldn't be the SEC champ. A two loss (with both losses coming in conference!!) Florida team would then be the SEC's champion, even over one loss Auburn...who beat Florida, head to head.

So, what would we have there?

First off, we'd have all the proof we ever need (as if we ever needed any more) that the whole CCG is a complete farce and an utterly cynical money grabbing waste of time. We'd also have a situation whereby Auburn, even lacking that CCG win and any other late season S.O.S. quality wins, might still be sitting there as the SEC's likely highest ranked team.

Would they then go to the BCS title game?

Nope, probably not. Among other one loss title game aspirants the BCS formula would almost certainly end up landing in favor of some other one loss team or possibly even two loss SEC champ Florida.

What a colossally fucked up system! LOL!!

Sorry to go Risa, but I had to respond to this as well.

I see you working, Van, but as a practical matter, it's extremely unlikely that your scenario comes to fruition.

Florida has two remaining conference games: at Vanderbilt next week, and home against South Carolina the following week. Ordinarily, I might give Spurrier some chance of pulling the upset, but the environment at the Swamp usually makes it difficult for a road team to pull out the win, particularly one facing such a rather obvious talent disadvantage. I don't see Florida losing in conference the rest of the way.

Granted, Florida still has an OOC matchup vs. Florida State to play. But this is not your father's, or even your older brother's, Florida State team. Florida has a considerable talent advantage this year, and with what is potentially at stake for Florida, I can't see them choking it away. OTOH, the 'Noles could figure that this game might afford them some measure of redemption for this season, so they could very well play their best game of the season against Florida.

Van wrote:Auburn's still ranked higher than ND now though, even though Auburn lost more recently. Obviously, rightly or wrongly, Auburn is still more highly regarded than ND.

We disagree,

ESPN, especially fatass Beano

Terry in Crapchester wrote:OTOH, WVU has two games remaining against teams that are still undefeated at this juncture (Louisville and Rutgers). Win both, and they figure to climb in BCS points, particularly at the computer end.

Very true. WVU should be able to close the gap if they beat Louisville and Rutgers. Rutgers has been skating by so far. UConn stayed close last night. Rutgers was very fortunate to leave Tampa with a win.

Looking forward to Thursday's night WVU-Louisville game. It's been hyped for a long time, so I hope it lives up to its billing.

Arkansas' loss was at home
Auburns loss was at home
Texas' loss was at home
Notre Dame's loss was at home

granted Texas' and Notre Dames losses were to better teams but I dont see how they would have Auburn ranked ahead of Arkansas especially since it was Arkansas that went in to Auburn and kicked their ass.

88 wrote:The BCS has 10 teams this year, so your doom and gloom scenarios are probably not going to happen. Six automatic conference champs:

ACC
Big East
Big Ten
Big XII
Pac-10
SEC

Two Potential Automatic Qualifiers:

Notre Dame
Boise State

Ohio State-Michigan loser figures to be an automatic qualifier as well, unless they drop to #5 or lower.

At least two At-Large qualifiers by selection.

Only one. See above.

If ND moves up one spot in the final BCS rankings, then two of the following conferences -- SEC, Big East and Pac-10 -- get shut out of the at-large process.

Things will be fine.*








*Assuming Ohio State beyotch slaps Michigan and gets to play Rutgers for the MNC.

That would take a few major upsets to happen (and I'm not considering tOSU beating Michigan as an upset).

Terry, I believe 88 was joking with that last bit there about Rutgers.

:-)

I know. Just wanted to play along.

If Rutgers beats WVU and Louisville, I'll be kidnapping Schiano and installing him as PSU's head coach forthwith. As it is, I can be patient for a half decade or so.

PSUFAN wrote:If Rutgers beats WVU and Louisville, I'll be kidnapping Schiano and installing him as PSU's head coach forthwith. As it is, I can be patient for a half decade or so.

Not going to happen. They were very lucky against us and they barely got by a very bad UConn team last night. They could beat Louisville at home, but WVU is going to be a bit too much for them.