The Big 10 is evolving into the Pac 10

[The Seer]

35-24 with time left in the 3rd Qtr.....

[TenTallBen]

Good thing they still teach defense here in the SEC.

[campinfool]

And people bitch the Big East doesn't play defense ...

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Then turn the channel.

I'm sure there's some EPIC Pac 10 game going on right now that's more entertaining.

[FLW Buckeye]

Then turn the channel.

I'm sure there's some EPIC Pac 10 game going on right now that's more entertaining.

Rack!

[The Seer]

Then turn the channel.

I'm sure there's some EPIC Pac 10 game going on right now that's more entertaining.

Yeah, coming up.

[Screw_Michigan]

Good thing they still teach defense here in the SEC.

and obviously not any offense.

sin, alabama, auburn, shit offense after shit offense, etc.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Then turn the channel.

I'm sure there's some EPIC Pac 10 game going on right now that's more entertaining.

Yeah, coming up.

Yeah, the cal/usc game obviously means a lot more in the CF landscape. Much more on the line.

Hopefully both teams can keep it under 90 total points at the half.

[Ken]

The Big 10 is devolving into the Pac 10

One of thoses fixed for ya' thingies.

[Van]

That's okay 'cause watching this USC-Cal game the Pac 10 has suddenly morphed into the old Big 10...

It's a fuggen baseball game out here! This BLOWS!! The better the D's play, the more tentative the previously slick and efficient offenses play and it keeps snowballing...

[Shoalzie]

If you complained about this game, than you had to have complained about USC-Texas...and that was such a painful game to watch too.

[War Wagon]

That's okay 'cause watching this USC-Cal game the Pac 10 has suddenly morphed into the old Big 10...

It's a fuggen baseball game out here! This BLOWS!! The better the D's play, the more tentative the previously slick and efficient offenses play and it keeps snowballing...

Actually, I'm sorta' enjoying watching Cals D bitch slap what was advertised as the "high flying" USC offensive juggernaut.

It's also a nice change of pace from the earlier "game of the century".

That said, after watching the 1st half, I'm starting to think a Michigan - Ohio State re-match for the MNC wouldn't be a bad idea.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

One nice thing about the game, was, well, the game itself. Everything was decided on the field. The play was clean, and the refs were rarely involved. The booth reviews were practically nonexistant, and the game had a nice flow to it.

As far as the defenses...you can call it bad D all you want, but I don't think there's a D in the country that is going to shutdown either Michigan or Ohio St...oh, and save your Ball St and Illinois emails, clones.

At some point you have to give credit to the offenses. Hey, if Pac10 fans can get away with that argument, others should too.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

That said, after watching the 1st half, I'm starting to think a Michigan - Ohio State re-match for the MNC wouldn't be a bad idea.

Bad idea. Michigan got their chance, and they couldn't beat Ohio St. It's time to see if someone else can. If there's a one loss USC, Arkansas, or Florida, one of them should have their chance. I don't see why we're supposed to accept Michigan being the best one loss team as some sort of universal truth. Based on what? Based on wins over Notre Dame and Wisconsin? If SC wins out, they'll have more quality wins than Michigan. They'll have the more impressive resume. They'll be the more impressive one loss team.

[War Wagon]

One nice thing about the game, was, well, the game itself.

No doubt about it, that was a very entertaining game that lived up to the almost impossible task of matching the pre-event hype. Michigan was one personal foul penalty away from winning that sucker outright.

One thing I'm struck bye is the difference in atmosphere between the two games we're talking about. The USC crowd seems laid back in comparison.

[War Wagon]

Bad idea. Michigan got their chance, and they couldn't beat Ohio St. It's time to see if someone else can. If there's a one loss USC, Arkansas, or Florida, one of them should have their chance.

Nice chivalrous sentiment and most times I would agree, but with all due respect to those teams, they'd get pounded by OSU.

I still see them as 1-2, and isn't that who the BCS formula is supposed to match up for the MNC?

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

I hate both teams. I wasn't really "rooting" for either team to win, but moreso I was rooting for a good game, and then hoping OSU wound up with more points at the end. So I'd say things worked out from my perspective. But even though Michigan stayed in the game score-wise, I never really felt like they were totally in it, nor did I feel like they were a threat to take control. OSU just continued to have an answer.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Nice chivalrous sentiment and most times I would agree, but with all due respect to those teams, they'd get pounded by OSU.

I just can't buy a team like USC getting pounded by OSU based on the dreaded "because I say so" argument. I've never been a fan of that type of reasoning.

What we do know is Michigan couldn't beat Ohio St. It's time to give somebody with an equal record (and a better resume of wins) a shot.

Seems fair.

'Course, the SC argument could be moot unless they decide they want to pull their heads outta their asses.

[Shoalzie]

I hate both teams. I wasn't really "rooting" for either team to win, but moreso I was rooting for a good game, and then hoping OSU wound up with more points at the end. So I'd say things worked out from my perspective. But even though Michigan stayed in the game score-wise, I never really felt like they were totally in it, nor did I feel like they were a threat to take control. OSU just continued to have an answer.

Ohio State's first half was probably the most impressive half of offensive football played by anyone this year. Or at least it was the best planned and executed offense. Michigan did score and look confident and strong in their opening possession but the Big Ten champs answered back with a quality drive of their own with 4 third down conversions leading to a TD. From that point on, the Buckeyes won the first 30 minutes. Michigan had their opportunities in the second half to take back control and possibly win the game. Getting just 10 points on 3 turnovers isn't going to cut it in a high-scoring game like this. For them to be able to protect the ball themselves and too not take the chance to punish Ohio State for two bad QB exchanges and Smith trying to squeeze a pass to a receiver who was double-covered...I think if it was Michigan who made those mistakes, the Buckeyes would've properly buried the stake in the hearts of the Wolverines. The roughing the passer penalty was the last straw for Michigan...they had Ohio State ready to punt the ball back to them and they'd have the chance to move back ahead for the first time since the first quarter but they made a bad mistakes and Smith and the boys made it hurt by finishes the drive off with the game-deciding TD. I would feel wrong for Michigan to play OSU again in Glendale but honestly, when things are all said and done in the regular season...it could still be said that they were the two best teams and in turn, they should play for the national title as much as some people would like to raise a stink about it. Let's say there was a playoff and Michigan fought their way through two or three opponents and met the Buckeyes in the final game, that would certainly be appropriate.

[Shoalzie]

This thread is kind of ironic with the Pac 10 Game of the Year currently 16-9 in the 4th...very un-Pac 10-like.

[Laxplayer]

If SC wins out, they'll have more quality wins than Michigan. They'll have the more impressive resume. They'll be the more impressive one loss team. because we all know Oregon State is a tougher place to play than the Shoe, not to mention having to come back by 20+ points

FTFY

I guess so because losing to an unranked Oregon State team means a lot more than losing to the #1 ranked team by only a FG.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

If SC wins out, and we compare resumes, SC will have the more impressive one, from start to finish. No doubt in my mind about that.

[Laxplayer]

Yes they will. That one loss is much more impressive.

[Laxplayer]

Where was Arkansas ranked when SC played them? That's right....they weren't. They're a much better team now but not 10 weeks ago.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Where was Arkansas ranked when SC played them? That's right....they weren't.

What was Wisconsin ranked when Michigan beat them? Answer: they weren't. If we're using your logic, then Michigan only has one quality win.

Seems like you should have more than one quality win if you're going to play for the title game, eh?

[RadioFan]

Nice chivalrous sentiment and most times I would agree, but with all due respect to those teams, they'd get pounded by OSU.

I just can't buy a team like USC getting pounded by OSU based on the dreaded "because I say so" argument. I've never been a fan of that type of reasoning.

Ok, how about the reasoning that any team, be it USC, Fla., Ark. or ND, would get their ass handed to them by tOSU right now, because tOSU is simply better than any other team, by far?

[Van]

Even though it'll sound completely self serving of ME to say so, fuck it, it's no less true that Mgo's dead on correct...

If USC runs the table they'll own a road destruction over the SEC's most impressive team this season. They'll own a win over perennial power and still decent team Nebraska. They'll own a win over Michigan's best win, ND. Using Lax's argument, well, ND isn't the same team now that they were when Michigan rolled 'em and we'll have beaten a late season ND team that was one win away from VERY BIG THINGS. USC will also own an end of season five game winning streak comprising a final four game gauntlet of Oregon, Cal, ND and UCLA.

NOBODY else in the nation has to play TWO rivalry games, back to back, to end the season.

Also, let's not ignore the obvious. USC will also be in the midst of the nation's longest home winning streak and they'll still be riding the crest of a five year budding dynasty that's unprecedented in the modern era.

USC has five losses in SIX years, and not one of those losses was anything but a nail biter. In fact, USC is two plays away (one against Texas last year and a place kicking gaffe in triple O.T. against Cal in '03) from sitting on nearly four straight perfect seasons.

Say what you weill, but that simply can't be ignored. USC still has to be given top consideration any time they're one of the teams involved in any of these BCS discussions.

Then there's...Michigan.

I'm not going to sit here and say that USC is necessarily a better than Michigan. I doubt they are, in fact, though I believe USC is finally coming on as a team at precisely the right time. By season's end they may very well be better than Michigan and better equipped to beat OSU in a BCS bowl game setting. I'd certainly take USC's defense and stack them up against anybody's right now.

Not the point. The point is what Mgo said. Who's Michigan beaten?

ND and Wisconsin, and that's it. Well, Arkansas, Nebraska, Oregon, Cal, ND and UCLA trumps ND and Wisconsin.

Like many people have also said, exactly what was the point of today's game if we're just going to have a rematch? What, was this just a dress rehearsal??

Fuck that. Don't cheapen that rivalry. If Michigan should win Round II, what then? That'd just be stupid.

Look, the winner of Ohio St-Texas was effectively knocked out of the chase this season, as it should be. Same deal with today's game. In order to win the national title neither team could afford to lose today's game.

Don't cheapen this thing. Today's game needs to be a stand alone achievement in the annals of that rivalry. Rematches are ponderous. They feel anti climactic and the only way they provide any answers or closure is if the winning team wins the second match too.

Mgo got it right. Michigan had their chance, and they gave it a valiant effort. No shame there in their effort and the Rose Bowl is hardly bitter consolation. However, now it's time for somebody else to get the chance to knock off OSU.

Now, the one obvious caveat: If USC AND the SEC winner loses then yep, Michigan's right back in there. There's just no way to jump ND over Michigan now and Michigan and ND would be the only two relevant one loss teams left standing...

[Van]

Nice chivalrous sentiment and most times I would agree, but with all due respect to those teams, they'd get pounded by OSU.

I just can't buy a team like USC getting pounded by OSU based on the dreaded "because I say so" argument. I've never been a fan of that type of reasoning.

Ok, how about the reasoning that any team, be it USC, Fla., Ark. or ND, would get their ass handed to them by tOSU right now, because tOSU is simply better than any other team, by far?

Nonetheless somebody's gotta play OSU in the title game and I for one would like to think that if Michigan could nearly play OSU even then a peaking USC could too and when it comes to USC playing in the Rose Bowl against a Big 10 team I'll ALWAYS like that match up...

Also, we've all seen it far too often in recent years where the assumptive knock out winner of the title game managed to somehow come up short. Still gotta play the game, just in case, being the point...

Let's also not forget that OSU will've had to've sat, what, four years, six months and twenty eight days between today's victory and the BCS title game? That kind of a layoff, yeah, a team like USC who still has two more competitve games to play could easily come in on a roll and be better prepared to play that final game against a team that had way too much time to get flat and rusty...

Let's face it: Today was the real championship game for the Big 10 teams. Like Bo and Woody both said on today's show, hey, winning bowl games is never as important to those two programs as beating each other and winning the Big 10.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Well, Michigan proved they're beatable only losing by three, so no, I'd disagree. Problem is, they didn't beat 'em, so it's time for someone else to have a crack.

[RadioFan]

If USC runs the table they'll own a road destruction over the SEC's most impressive team this season.

Over a Florida team (if) they (also) beat Ark. in the SEC championship?

Totally disagree. I hate these conference championship games, but unless they all have one or none, it is what it is, and in this case it would suck for your team if that's what puts Fla. over the hump by .01 or something in the BCS. Hey, could happen. Easily.

NOBODY else in the nation has to play TWO rivalry games, back to back, to end the season.

Ahem. You mean "NOBODY has had to play" worthy opponents, back-to-back?

If Michigan should win Round II, what then?

Split national championship.

That'd just be stupid.

Not at all. In fact, it would be fucking PERFECT, for this idiotic "system" we have now.

[RadioFan]

I just can't buy a team like USC getting pounded by OSU based on the dreaded "because I say so" argument. I've never been a fan of that type of reasoning.

Ok, how about the reasoning that any team, be it USC, Fla., Ark. or ND, would get their ass handed to them by tOSU right now, because tOSU is simply better than any other team, by far?

Nonetheless somebody's gotta play OSU in the title game and I for one would like to think that if Michigan could nearly play OSU even then a peaking USC could too

If USC somehow sqeaks into the MNC game, tOSU will make a joke of them, like USC did against my team a few years ago.

Also, we've all seen it far too often in recent years where the assumptive knock out winner of the title game managed to somehow come up short. Still gotta play the game, just in case, being the point...

Good point. I hate ND even more than USC. If ND happens to slip in over Michigan, what's your argument? By your rationale, ND should get to play Ohio State, right?

Let's also not forget that OSU will've had to've sat, what, four years, six months and twenty eight days between today's victory and the BCS title game?

Hey, Lax? Is this another one of the great "traditions" of CF?

Van, there is absolutely no rational reason for that shit, whatsoever.

Let's face it: Today was the real championship game for the Big 10 teams. Like Bo and Woody both said on today's show, hey, winning bowl games is never as important to those two programs as beating each other and winning the Big 10.

Yeah, I'm sure Woody and Bo would be all happy and puffing their chests and hitting players and shit in heaven with another "meaningful" Rose Bowl appearance without a MNC.



The "real" championship will come once there's a fucking playoff. EOS

[Van]

RF, how do you get that by my rationale ND should get in over Michigan?

Now that Michigan went down there is NO scenario by which ND can get into the title game. Michigan and ND each have (at best) one loss and ND's one loss came at home (horrifically) at the hands of Michigan.

Head to head trumps all. Arkansas also has no shot either, not unless USC finds another loss in the next two weeks.

[RadioFan]

RF, how do you get that by my rationale ND should get in over Michigan?

Now that Michigan went down there is NO scenario by which ND can get into the title game. Michigan and ND each have (at best) one loss and ND's one loss came at home (horrifically) at the hands of Michigan.

Head to head trumps all.

What BtH said, bro.

In 2000, OU was the only undefeated team. They played a 1-loss FSU team. FSU lost to Miami (wide right, in the Orange Bowl, I believe it was). Miami had lost a week or two earlier to Washington, on the road, Miami's only loss as well. To complicate things even further, Washington, that year, also was a 1-loss team.

Miami was screaming for a shot at OU, in the MNC, since they had beaten the team that was playing OU for the MNC (FSU).

Not that it really mattered that particular year, given that OU beat FSU in the MNC ... but anyone who didn't see that year as being a major fucking problem under this current "system" is an idiot.

The moral of the story: ND might have a "legitimate" shot, over Michigan, if ND beats you guys.

Of course, all this could be solved by a playoff, while tOSU sits and waits for 88's tax quarter to end.

Two months until the MNC? Are you fucking kidding me?

[RadioFan]

Actually, I think Miami lost to Washington after they played FSU that year.

Nope. They had an early loss, just like ND this year, under Mich.

[RadioFan]

Just trying to help out Van and Mgo.

Nothiing to see here folks. Move along.

[Laxplayer]

RF...I'm not sure what tradition you're speaking of. Hey Van...that win over Oregon really looks impressive now......
Arkansas is a much different team right now because McFadden wasn't totally healthy when they played $C at the start of the year. Teams improve over the course of a year and Arkansas is the perfect case. Another case in point is Oregon. 2 Weeks ago we're talking about what a great team they are now they've laid a couple of eggs what does that mean? If they drop far in the polls. Now they have losses to $C, WSU, Cal and Arizona....WSU just lost to UW so what kind of quality win is Oregon now? What quality wins does Cal have? ASU? Oregon? So in reality how good is Cal? Also, if Oregon stinks right now, how can they be a quality win?
Bottom line is that $C will probably make it into the NC game which would force me to go out and buy a whole bunch of scarlet and gret gear......unless of course the Irish pull one out of their asses and beat them next week.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Just trying to help out Van and Mgo.

Huungh? I have yet to see you slap up anything on my monitor that would even make me think twice about SC not being the most deserving one loss team, assuming they can win out.

[PSUFAN]

I'm getting confused.

Pac 10 Fan, for years bitches about the "boring, defensive-oriented" Big 10. Now, the top two teams in the conference stage a 1v2 with some offensive fireworks, and Pac 10 fan wants more defense?

sheesh

[Van]

PSU, you never heard ME complaining about the defenses in the Michigan-Ohio St game.

Great game. Yes, both defenses were totally overmatched but like Mgo said that wasn't necessarily a sign of bad defense. In this case I think it was simply down to the offenses being really good.

That's usually been the case in the Pac 10 over the years as well, yet usually nobody east of the Rockies has been willing to admit it even though all the evidence was there to see plain as day, what with all those NFL offensive players and coaches coming out of the Pac 10.

The Pac 10's OOC and Bowl records should've also been a decent clue too. If their D's were that bad and their offenses really weren't that good then the Pac 10 should've been getting rolled all these years every time they set foot outside the conference.

I was complaining about the offenses in the Cal-USC game because, well, our offense took forever to get out of its own way. 10 penalties, most of which were procedure calls in our own building (!!), plus too many incompleted passes that were the result of the receiver literally getting HIT by the the pass because he didn't even get his head turned around to see the ball coming??

That's not great D there, that's bad offense. Once USC's offense settled down though they moved and scored with alacrity while their D continued to completely stifle Cal's previously explosive offense.

That game was definitely won on defense and I have no complaints about that.

[PSUFAN]

Fair enough - I was referring to the author of this thread, who has yet to find a complaint that he didn't like and endeavor to voice...