T1B

I read this in the Des Moines Register today and it said that former ISU coach Jim Walden gave Florida a #1 vote simply because he thought they deserved to play Ohio State. What a fucking douchebag. I hate the system college football has, but to have an agenda when you vote for the Top 25 is f-ing horsecrap. He should have his voting rights revoked. Turns out, his vote was the difference in the human polls.

You should vote for where you think each team should be ranked, regardless of whether or not you feel your ranking a team ahead of another could help that team get into the title game. He voted Florida #1 because he knew that would help springboard them into the title game. I'm not gonna argue who should play OSU, but the fact that we have a system where people's agendas can affect our championship game only proves what a joke the BCS is. I know it's a tired argument, but seriously, it's time for some sort of a playoff. Just give me a "Plus One" game, and I'll be happy. Enough of biased voters with agendas tainting the system. Enough is enough!

I seriously doubt his vote made the difference. I mean, suppose he had voted Fla #2 instead? That isn't enough to allow UM to make up the 30+ points it needed to overtake UF.

Of course, he may believe Florida is #1. I don't find that completely outrageous.

I decided to find the article. Here it is.

So in fact you lied or can't read because it says:

It was reported nationally that Walden voted the Gators first, even though that vote alone was not enough to push Florida in front of Michigan.

and if you read the article he is saying he does believe Florida deserves the #1 ranking. I disagree but like I said, it is outrageous.

I never said that his vote alone bumped UF over Michigan. My point wasn't that. My point is that our system is a joke if it's a system that not only allows agendas by certain voters to impact who is selected to play for a national title, but it also encourages it. To be honest, I just skimmed the article because I use my copy of the DSM Rag as more for toilet paper than for reading material. Read the Rag a few days and you'll see why.

TheJON wrote:I never said that his vote alone bumped UF over Michigan.

TheJON wrote:Turns out, his vote was the difference in the human polls.

Alrighty, then.

TheJON wrote:I never said that his vote alone bumped UF over Michigan. My point wasn't that. My point is that our system is a joke if it's a system that not only allows agendas by certain voters to impact who is selected to play for a national title, but it also encourages it. To be honest, I just skimmed the article because I use my copy of the DSM Rag as more for toilet paper than for reading material. Read the Rag a few days and you'll see why.

Your point was that Walden was a former coach at ISU and you wanted to obsess over them a little more.

Of course he is going to deny voting with an agenda, who would openly admit it? This is nothing new, we've seen it at other times when the race for #2 was known to be tight.

TheJON wrote:I read this in the Des Moines Register today and it said that former ISU coach Jim Walden gave Florida a #1 vote simply because he thought they deserved to play Ohio State. What a fucking douchebag. I hate the system college football has, but to have an agenda when you vote for the Top 25 is f-ing horsecrap. He should have his voting rights revoked. Turns out, his vote was the difference in the human polls.

You should vote for where you think each team should be ranked, regardless of whether or not you feel your ranking a team ahead of another could help that team get into the title game. He voted Florida #1 because he knew that would help springboard them into the title game. I'm not gonna argue who should play OSU, but the fact that we have a system where people's agendas can affect our championship game only proves what a joke the BCS is. I know it's a tired argument, but seriously, it's time for some sort of a playoff. Just give me a "Plus One" game, and I'll be happy. Enough of biased voters with agendas tainting the system. Enough is enough!

Who'd have ever thought Tom Osborne had a long-lost twin brother?

former ISU coach Jim Walden gave Florida a #1 vote simply because he thought they deserved to play Ohio State.

Newsflash - coaches vote according to whatever criteria they choose. LOTS of coaches...and AP pollsters, also...vote according to who they feel deserves a vote.

Personally, I feel that UM is the #2 team in the land...but I don't need to see that game replayed.

That's not the point, PSUFAN. In fact, I agree with you. I think that the score of the Michigan-Ohio State game was misleading. Ohio State is clearly a superior team to Michigan. But I agree Michigan is the #2 team, that's how good tOSU is. My point is that we have a system in which the human polls have a big impact on the BCS. And whether or not a voter feels that the championship game should be between Florida and Ohio State, he should still rank the teams based upon how he feels they should be ranked and not rank one opponent ahead of another simply because he wants to see that team play in the title game. I think anyone with half a brain knows this system is a joke but this is the system right now and regardless of how the voters feel about the system, they should still follow the rules. I don't care who Walden (or any coach) feels deserves to play for a national title, that isn't the point. And yes, I'm aware coaches do this all the time but it's bullshit.

Ohio State is gonna ass rape Florida. We're talking about a Florida team that is lucky to NOT be 8-4. How can you rank them ahead of Michigan? Fuck the strength of schedule BS. Michigan played their schedule. It's not their fault the Big-10 blows. And the SEC was overrated. Tennessee, Arkansas, and Auburn were overrated teams. They were fortunate to beat Tennessee, LSU, Arkansas, and South Carolina. They were just a few fluke plays away from being 8-4. How many times did LSU fumble deep in Gator territory (and I seem to recall a muffed punt for TD they got too)? 3 blocked kicks including an extra point blocked to beat South Carolina at home? Taking the lead on a muffed punt against Arkansas? This is pure fucking luck, not skill. They're a decent team, but they couldn't hold Michigan's jockstrap. And I haven't even gotten to the fact that Urban Meyer is very overrated. Faking a punt on your own 10 yardline on 4th and 10? Are you fucking kidding me? Oh, sure it worked, but if I were an AD and my coach pulled that crap, I'd fire his ass on the spot and then go coach the rest of the game myself. There is no way this guy would win a game against any team that had comparable talent to him. I like aggressive coaches, but this guy is reckless beyond belief.

It's not their fault the Big-10 blows.

So Iowa goes 6-6, and the Big 10 blows? How can you say that - we have three teams in the top 7.

There is no way this guy would win a game against any team that had comparable talent to him.

Last I checked, Florida only had one loss. I'd say that there are SEC teams whose talent approaches that of Florida. And yes, they had some close games - it's hard to extract any useful comparative nugget from that, though. But for tackling and catching the ball, Iowa's NFL-talent heavy roster would have been undefeated.

SOS, SOS, SOS.

IMO, this will only begin to be evaluated by the results of the bowl season.

If LSU is the best team in the conference, how come they didn't even win their division?

If they hadn't wrongly been ranked #3 all this time

So...which is it? Are we finding the earlier results of the BCS (Michigan #2) "wrong", even while accepting the latest ones (Florida #2) as legitimate?

Isn't SEC fan trying to argue that #2 is right for Florida? If that's the case (i.e., the BCS is legit), then why was UM's ranking at #2 not legit? Same polls, same computers.

Sudden -

I seem to have seen on ESPN and various other new papers etc that Michigan's opponents winning % and FLA's opponents winning % were not that drastically different plus Michigan vs top 25 was 2-1 and FLA was 3-1 from what I recall seeing...don't forget FLA also got some easy outs with MSU, Ole Miss, Vandy (struggle), etc...sure Michigan had their fair share of easy outs but let's not also forget teams like LSU, Tennessee, and Auburn were rated in the top 25 to start the season (as was Bama)...when Tennesee beat Cal first game of the year they shot up the polls so the SEC had teams near the top so when they did lose their drops weren't as far (which in turn gives SEC fan the famous they were ranked when we played them BODE)...PSU was ranked 19 to start the season and lost to ND...no shame in that and they did drop...Iowa was playing well prior to the tOSU game and then went into a free fall...Wisconsin wasn't even rated to start the year and their only loss was to Michigan...but yet FLA gets credit for going through brutal SEC by scraping by a Georgia team that lost to VANDY and Kentucky, beating a Bama team that finished 6 and FUCKING 6 and lost to MISS State, and barely scraping by a South Carolina team that was 3-5 in the SEC...and let's not forget the scares the VAUNTED Ole Miss Rebels put into Auburn and LSU...granted Michigan scraped by NW and Ball State and tOSU had one scrape game against Illinois...but by and large tOSU games were over by half time or shortly thereafter...

I guess I am sick of how everyone makes the SEC out to be this heaven and earth conference...are they good yes...real good...do they have good teams yes...but you know what every conference has good teams...after FLA, LSU, Auburn, and Arkansas the SEC drops off to Tennessee, Georgia, and Kentucky...not much different than any other conference IN MY OPINION...I mean good lord...

can we please have a presidential order for FLA and Michigan to play each other this weekend so we can settle this stupid fucking debate...

Is there any real doubt that UM would crunch UF? None in my mind...although I'd probably root for UF in that one.

TheJON wrote:Faking a punt on your own 10 yardline on 4th and 10? Are you fucking kidding me? Oh, sure it worked, but if I were an AD and my coach pulled that crap, I'd fire his ass on the spot and then go coach the rest of the game myself.

I cannot be reading this, as was intended.....right?
I mean, a fake is to be executed when one leasts expect it on the other sideline, thus enhancing the chances it works.
If it does, how can it be stupid..maybe, just maybe he felt CONFIDENT his players could pull it off.
Ya see JON, this is why he's a multi-millionaire, and you're not.

Oh come on, PSU, the Big-10 sucks. Wisconsin is overrated. They're about as bad of an 11-1 team as I've ever seen. In a normal year for the Big-10, Bucky goes 5-3 at best. No one else was any good. Purdue, and Penn State were mediocre. Iowa, Minnesota, Indiana, Northwestern, Illinois, and Michigan State either quit midway through the season or were fukking terrible.

I think the Big-10 will do okay in bowls, but that doesn't mean they're a great conference. Ohio State will win. Michigan should win, but it all depends on if they have the right attitude going into that game. Iowa will get killed. Wisconsin will lose. Penn State will lose. Purdue has a good chance to win. Minnesota's game is a toss-up. If all of that happens, I think Big-10 fans should be satisfied.

And you can mock the fact that I like to say how many Hawkeyes are in the NFL, but you can look it up and see how former Hawkeyes are doing in the NFL. Who leads the NFL in sacks? That's right, Aaron Kampman. Ladell Betts is as good of a backup RB as there is in the NFL. 260 yards and 5 YPC the last 2 weeks replacing Clinton Portis. Bob Sanders is a Pro-Bowler when healthy and is one of the best safeties in the NFL. Eric Steinbach is one of the best LG's in the NFL. Mike Goff is a damn good OL for San Diego. Abdul Hodge is finally getting PT in his rookie season at MLB and got a TD last week. Chad Greenway would have started in his rookie year had it not been for a torn ACL. Sean Considine is a solid safety for Philly. Nate Kaeding is one of the best kickers in the NFL. Dallas Clark is a Top 10-11 TE in the leage. Casey Wiegman is one of the best centers. Matt Roth is forming into a nice DE for Miami. Jonathan Babineaux and Colin Cole each get quality PT at DT. Matt Bowen, Jason Baker, Tim Dwight, Jared Devries, and Benny Sapp (well, he's only in his 3rd year) are all NFL veterans that still get quality PT. And there's plenty other former Hawkeyes in the NFL too, those are just the ones I listed off the top of my head.

So mock me all you want, but the fact of the matter is nobody produces more NFL talent without having highly ranked recruiting classes every year than Iowa does.

Cornhusker,

Yes, a fake is supposed to throw the team off guard. But NEVER should you take a risk like that on your own 10 yardline. Under no circumstances should you do that. And, on top of that, it was 4th and 10. Not 4th and 2......4th and 10. They needed 10 yards (which is a lot) from their own 10 yardline. Again, I'd fire the coach if he tried that even if he succeeded. If they don't convert that, they lose the game. He risked the entire game on 1 10 yard fake punt. That's insane. Plenty of crappy coaches make millions. They're just more arrogant and have better connections than me.

TheJON wrote:So mock me all you want, but the fact of the matter is nobody produces more NFL talent without having highly ranked recruiting classes every year than Iowa does.

Miami comes to mind.

Miami? They get a Top 25 class every year and even get Top 10 classes quite often. They get more 4 and 5 star recruits in one year than Iowa gets in a decade.

TheJON wrote:Wisconsin is overrated.

No, they’re rated right about where they should be. They’ll move up a couple of spots after they beat Arkansas.

TheJON wrote:Miami? They get a Top 25 class every year and even get Top 10 classes quite often. They get more 4 and 5 star recruits in one year than Iowa gets in a decade.

Check back on Butch Davis's classes that made up the backbone of the 2000-2002 classes and the hit rate of those kids. Those classes were in the low 20's and early 30's.

Sudden Sam wrote: I just feel that overall, right now, LSU is the strongest team in the SEC.

You, and zero pollsters.

I will say that most seasons, that is the general concensus, but it's difficult to gauge such matters, is it not?

Yes, it's VERY difficult...since the SEC won't freaking play anybody.

And it's an opportunity to insist that we have an edge on other folks.

Except for that pesky fact that the PAC10 is the #1 rated conference this year.

In the South, I truly believe that there is still that lingering "we are inferior" feeling

Hey, maybe you aren't quite as dumb as the civilized parts of the country make you out to be. Those feelings are well-warranted, my friend.

and football is one way of overcoming that. Beating Big Ten schools (or Pac 10 or Big 12) is the greatest thing in the world!

If it's so great, how come your conference rarely schedules H&H's with those conferences, and opts to play 1AA schools instead?

The bowls don't necessarily indicate a conference's strength to me. But what else do we have to go by?

Not much...SINCE THE SEC WON'T PLAY ANYBODY OOC. Pretty much admitting that "we are inferior."

Sudden Sam wrote: I didn't see Florida beat LSU. That still amazes me, but I guess even a team as good as LSU can have a bad day.

Not so amazing when you consider LSU

• *Had five turnovers, including one on Florida's two yard line
  *Had a punt blocked in their own territory
  *Missed two FG attempts
  *Had Les Miles coaching them

TheJON wrote:Oh come on, PSU, the Big-10 sucks. Wisconsin is overrated. They're about as bad of an 11-1 team as I've ever seen. In a normal year for the Big-10, Bucky goes 5-3 at best. No one else was any good. Purdue, and Penn State were mediocre. Iowa, Minnesota, Indiana, Northwestern, Illinois, and Michigan State either quit midway through the season or were fukking terrible.

I think the Big-10 will do okay in bowls, but that doesn't mean they're a great conference. Ohio State will win. Michigan should win, but it all depends on if they have the right attitude going into that game. Iowa will get killed. Wisconsin will lose. Penn State will lose. Purdue has a good chance to win. Minnesota's game is a toss-up. If all of that happens, I think Big-10 fans should be satisfied.

And you can mock the fact that I like to say how many Hawkeyes are in the NFL, but you can look it up and see how former Hawkeyes are doing in the NFL. Who leads the NFL in sacks? That's right, Aaron Kampman. Ladell Betts is as good of a backup RB as there is in the NFL. 260 yards and 5 YPC the last 2 weeks replacing Clinton Portis. Bob Sanders is a Pro-Bowler when healthy and is one of the best safeties in the NFL. Eric Steinbach is one of the best LG's in the NFL. Mike Goff is a damn good OL for San Diego. Abdul Hodge is finally getting PT in his rookie season at MLB and got a TD last week. Chad Greenway would have started in his rookie year had it not been for a torn ACL. Sean Considine is a solid safety for Philly. Nate Kaeding is one of the best kickers in the NFL. Dallas Clark is a Top 10-11 TE in the leage. Casey Wiegman is one of the best centers. Matt Roth is forming into a nice DE for Miami. Jonathan Babineaux and Colin Cole each get quality PT at DT. Matt Bowen, Jason Baker, Tim Dwight, Jared Devries, and Benny Sapp (well, he's only in his 3rd year) are all NFL veterans that still get quality PT. And there's plenty other former Hawkeyes in the NFL too, those are just the ones I listed off the top of my head.

So mock me all you want, but the fact of the matter is nobody produces more NFL talent without having highly ranked recruiting classes every year than Iowa does.

You forgot Gallery.


I'm actually pretty good friends with Wiegmann. He thinks you're a tool too.

UCLA would be a great team in the SEC. Great defense, shitty offense.

CONFERENCE CENTRAL MEAN SIMPLE AVERAGE TEAMS

1 PAC-10 (A) = 81.86 81.48 ( 1) 10
2 SOUTHEASTERN (A) = 80.23 79.88 ( 2) 12
3 BIG EAST (A) = 78.12 78.58 ( 3) 8
4 BIG TEN (A) = 76.32 77.33 ( 4) 11
5 BIG 12 (A) = 74.23 74.11 ( 5) 12
6 ATLANTIC COAST (A) = 73.74 72.67 ( 6) 12


top 6 according to Sagarin...so the PAC 10 comes out on top using both methods...just sayin'...not saying Sagarin is the be all end all but hard to argue with numbers...again go on Hype and the SEC wins everytime...go on actual facts and numbers and the subjectivity is taken out of it...

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not that I want to defend the Pac 10


just throwing that up there...that is all...I mean kind of makes my argument that SEC fan can't handle when their conference is not mentioned as the best...whether numbers prove it out or otherwise...


just sayin'

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but Ole Miss, Vandy, Miss St, Kentucky are tough outs week to week...and before you get all excited about Kentucky this was the first year they have been decent in how long? Vandy beat Georgia...so by that logic Michigan beat a quality SEC team right?



Again not defending the Pac 10...nor am I saying the Big 10 was the best but the SEC has it's share of cupcakes...again glass houses much?

Until all this gets settled on the field or the NCAA mandates that intersectional scheduling this argument ain't going away...

And if most SEC teams played in the Big 10, they likely wouldn't go undefeated or finish with one loss. You know, because they would get smacked in the mouth and play more physical teams.

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RACK!

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don't forget the 1986 kick off classic as well 16-10 Bama over tOSU...and you call yourself a fan...nice that we are talking about shit 20 and 30 years ago...

tell me again how Bama fared in the what 2K Orange Bowl against Michigan? I believe Michigan won that one...tell me again how Sconsin fared last year against Auburn (the supposed best team in the SEC)...tell me again how Georgia fared against WVU last year in the Sugar Bowl...again the speed element has permeated every major conference and most teams...but yeah I guess you are right BODE SEC...

minorthreat,

I didn't forget Gallery. He is a horrible NFL offensive lineman. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen a crappier left tackle. Using Gallery as a part of my argument would be silly.

As for Wiegman, does he prefer having Trent Green or Damon Huard touch his ass? I'm just curious.

GO CHIEFS!!!

[web]http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/ ... id=2724984[/web]

Sudden Sam wrote:

buckeye_in_sc wrote:
tell me again how Bama fared in the what 2K Orange Bowl against Michigan? I believe Michigan won that one...

Oh, that was a great game, wasn't it?! I remember it well. Tough, tough loss.



The sixth-ranked Crimson Tide (10-3) lost in their 50th bowl game, an NCAA record. .