T1B

...first of all, this is NOT an overreaction to a(nother) tough loss. I was thinking about starting this thread at the beginning of the game when we went down, and at the end when we were up.

Does Bob Stoops need to start worrying about his job...? This is three straight BCS bowl losses for him, two of them in National Championship games... When is he going to get us back to the top? Why do we keep losing these big games? Has the game passed Stoops and / or his coordinators by? These are the questions that we're going to start hearing.

Are they merited? I'm starting to think "yes."

the_ouskull

the_ouskull wrote:This is three straight BCS bowl losses for him, two of them in National Championship games... When is he going to get us back to the top?

How many AD's and boosters would give their left nut (sorry E) to have that?

Fuck, after all Stoops went through this season, he should have a JoePa contract

As long as he keeps getting to BCS games he's safe. But what the losses do is erode the goodwill he built up during the early years, and so if he has a non-BCS season he could be in trouble.

Staff changes may be in order but Stoops is still one of the best in the business. OU has been winning all year with band-aids and duct tape. It finally caught up to us against a very good team.

Remember, the Sooners could have folded down 18 in the third quarter.

Schools would be forming a line if OU did some stupid shit like firing Stoops. What an overreaction!

Stoops, no. FUCK NO, in fact.

Defensive coordinators, maybe. Defensive staff shakeup, definitely.

Offensive coordinator: Give OU one.

OU's survived on the better part of three years with an outstanding runningback.

Personally, the 2000 team got me so excited I was ready to cream my pants seeing them take the field with that spread offense AND a decent runningback in Quinton Griffon, every freakin' game. But that era is over, and has been for the last several years. The Wishbone days are over. OU needs to get back to the damn spread offense, with a QB who can throw the ball.

Yeah, yeah, I know they have one coming in from Michigan, but they need to get away from this bullshit power running game.

Sure, that crap works when you're playing Middle Tennessee State during the second game of the season, but it sure as fuck doesn't work against an effective passing team with a decent defense that can get a few stops.

Defense wins championships. But only if you can throw the ball, on offense, especially when you're behind. Power running games don't win championships in 2007.

I agree with all of you. But, I KNOW that we're going to start hearing the rumblings around here on sports radio, etc... "Has Stoops lost his mojo?" etc...

the_ouskull

OU's QB showed me nothing tonight. Get his ass outta there and take a chance on a smart QB. Unless he can run the wishbone, I'd say that guy needs to find another position.

Dude made so many poor decisions. He is surrounded by athletic talent to hide his flaws.

You don't watch a lot of CFB, do you? I'm not baiting... Just asking.

the_ouskull

Not much anymore othe than what we see on the West Coast. You DO know I was a walk on for OU back in the Switzer era right?

I've seen so much bullshit that the average fan wouldn't believe. It was a fun experience. When I read "fan speak" I can see their side while knowing they don't know shit.

I don't think OU is a power-running team in terms of general-identity. They were just better at rb than they were at qb and went with that strength.

Bob is still Bob but he doesn't have the staff he used-to. He's lost very good guys to HC-jobs in Leach, Mangino, and Mike. His "promote from within" strategy may ingratiate himself with the staff but I don't know if it is working well-enough. From what I have seen Bo Pelini is likely a better DC than Venables(both times Bo has had a defense TO HIMSELF dude has rocked), maybe Bo should've been the one to hold onto two years ago. Despite having Peterson back OU's O still couldn't impose their will on a freaking WAC-defense, hell WAC-defense is a freaking oxymoron if I ever heard one. Bob may have to re-evaluate his staff to see if he really thinks these are the guys to get him another MNC trophy. Maybe they are, just needing a little more honing and a legit qb to trot out there but maybe a couple alterations are needed.

Dan, you probably don't understand the mentality of OU Fan in Oklahoma and the mentality of OU Fan from around the country, given the decades of the fucking Wishbone. And given that I went up and lived in Lawrence for 10 years, before coming back in Dec. 99 ...

OU Fan still can't get over the fact that what OU needs is a spread offense. OU won the MNC with it in 2000, but even with it, you can't believe the amount of callers I heard on sports talk radio in Oklahoma, saying how "we" need to "run the ball more."

Fucking morons, especially given that OU won the MNC that year, and still were bitching about it.

Hell, OU has the talent, as far as protection goes, on both sides of the ball, especially on defense.

Danimal wrote:OU's O still couldn't impose their will on a freaking WAC-defense, hell WAC-defense is a freaking oxymoron if I ever heard one. hell WAC-defense is a freaking oxymoron if I ever heard one.

Exactly. And RACK.

Death
Taxes
Choklahoma choking in a BCS bowl

With all the pre season off the field issues and with Peterson going down with an injury he did a hell of a coaching job this season. It's not his fault that OU's QB played pretty poor last night.

MuchoBulls wrote:With all the pre season off the field issues and with Peterson going down with an injury he did a hell of a coaching job this season. It's not his fault that OU's QB played pretty poor last night.

Couldn't have said it better. Stoops lost an exhibition game to a team that went unbeaten...don't get bent out of shape. They've got a blue chip QB coming in next year...Stoops has done too much in bringing that program back to be let go after last night. How about we just fire every coach that lost their exhibition game this year.

the whole premise is kind of ridiculous. i mean, as i posted in different thread, OU hasn't exactly been blowing people out. close wins against Mizzou, Tech, ATM, OSU and NU....and was going to get caught eventually with the dependence on the blitz they'd developed.

this was a good team that overachieved in some ways. not a great team.

BSU made some great plays and won. OU showed a lot of heart being down 28-10, but that doesn't make the gravy at the end of the day. it hurts, but the sun came up today.

I don't mean to make fun of communities that just have college sports and treat their college football and basketball teams like pro teams...they are probably the most overreacting and knee jerk fans of them all. Stoops should be held in high regard in Norman for what he's done. If you fire him, who is going to do a better job than what's done?

Stoops is one of the best in the game. Yeah, he has lost 3 straight BCS games, but how many schols have gone to 3 straight? He won the Big 12 w/ a WR at QB ands his horse on the shelf for 6 games.

I just think Boise State wanted came out of the gate w/ a little more fire.

Shoalzie wrote:I don't mean to make fun of communities that just have college sports and treat their college football and basketball teams like pro teams...they are probably the most overreacting and knee jerk fans of them all. Stoops should be held in high regard in Norman for what he's done. If you fire him, who is going to do a better job than what's done?

i haven't seen anything about Stoops' job security on any Sooner boards (possibly there's some idiot at OUInsider, but i don't read that football board). so, don't break your back feeling bad about your no-pro sports/college bumpkin mentality thesis*. i'm putting this one on Skull, who i respect but i think lost his better judgment last night.

*like, pro sports fans don't call for coach's head on a pike after every loss? please.

King Crimson wrote:

Shoalzie wrote:I don't mean to make fun of communities that just have college sports and treat their college football and basketball teams like pro teams...they are probably the most overreacting and knee jerk fans of them all. Stoops should be held in high regard in Norman for what he's done. If you fire him, who is going to do a better job than what's done?

i haven't seen anything about Stoops' job security on any Sooner boards (possibly there's some idiot at OUInsider, but i don't read that football board). so, don't break your back feeling bad about your no-pro sports/college bumpkin mentality thesis*. i'm putting this one on Skull, who i respect but i think lost his better judgment last night.

*like, pro sports fans don't call for coach's head on a pike after every loss? please.

First off, don't put words in my mouth...I didn't say "bumpkin" so let's put out that fire before it gets out of control and I have every fan from college-only areas on my ass.

I think we all do the same thing...overreact after each win and loss. For me living where I'm at, I've got 4 pro teams and two major colleges here. I don't kill each individual coach after each loss because everyone loses...especially in the pros and there are way too many games. The two guys in Michigan who get the most heat are probably Matt Millen and Lloyd Carr...Tommy Amaker is probably up there too but Michigan is primarily a football school at this point. John L is gone so he's no longer in the picture.

It seems to me coaches that win regularly and then start to lose a little get probably as much heat as those who don't win at all. Look at Larry Coker...the guy goes unbeaten for his first two years and his winning perecentage is among the best during his tenure but he's out on his ass after a .500 season. Granted, Miami has problems but on field performance alone, Coker was one of the best coaches in the nation while he was there.

you didn't say bumpkin, but you did say that places without pro sports teams were more prone to irrational overreacting. which, i think is wrong. i've lived in Denver or the Denver area for almost 15 years and i think, if anything, the pro "fire the coach" mentality is far more prevalent. at least equal.

Coker is a great guy, but not a great coach.

Tommy Amaker is killing me in the hoops pick'em. but i blame myself.

Yes, OU should fire Stoops.

Sin,
A&M Fan in need of a coach

I'll weigh in on the pro vs. college sports debate.

I think Shoalzie is right in part, in that the "fire the coach" mentality seems, at least to me, to be more present in college sports fans. Having said that, I don't think it's the "bumpkin" effect at work here. Rather, it's the game that decides the mentality.

As we all know, losses are magnified in college football. A single loss may knock you out of the national championship picture; two losses definitely will. By contrast, in the NFL, the best teams in the league usually lose at least 2-3 games per season. And in MLB, the best teams lose approximately 3 out of every 8 games.

College football and basketball have shorter seasons than their professional counterparts, and a more restrictive playoff. So where college football is king, you're more likely to see an overreaction to a single loss.

As far as Stoops is concerned, Shoalzie is right. Any bowl game other than the national championship game is a glorified exhibition game, and Boise State is a very good team. Stoops got OU back to where the program expects itself to be after a rather extended trip in the wilderness. There's no way OU should even consider firing him, not for a minute.

Terry: that's not what shoalzie said: he said places where there aren't pro sports have this mentality, not "college football" fans. it's a categorical difference. there are places where there are "college football fans" in places with pro sports.

I'm not running down shoalzie....he's a solid poster....but let's get the terms right.

losses in CFB have a symbolic quality--like losing to TCU or BSU is a "shame" on OU (apparently)....that has results in being ranked wherever or not.

a loss in the NFL is just a number. a loss to the patriots or a loss to the raiders counts the same.

Terry in Crapchester wrote:I'll weigh in on the pro vs. college sports debate.

I think Shoalzie is right in part, in that the "fire the coach" mentality seems, at least to me, to be more present in college sports fans. Having said that, I don't think it's the "bumpkin" effect at work here. Rather, it's the game that decides the mentality.

As we all know, losses are magnified in college football. A single loss may knock you out of the national championship picture; two losses definitely will. By contrast, in the NFL, the best teams in the league usually lose at least 2-3 games per season. And in MLB, the best teams lose approximately 3 out of every 8 games.

College football and basketball have shorter seasons than their professional counterparts, and a more restrictive playoff. So where college football is king, you're more likely to see an overreaction to a single loss.

As far as Stoops is concerned, Shoalzie is right. Any bowl game other than the national championship game is a glorified exhibition game, and Boise State is a very good team. Stoops got OU back to where the program expects itself to be after a rather extended trip in the wilderness. There's no way OU should even consider firing him, not for a minute.

Well said...

I never said that Stoops should lose his job, and, in fact, stated that my opinion wasn't a knee-jerk reaction to a touch loss...

What I DID say was that I think that the people who are going to start (just wait, it'll happen) to question Stoops ability to coach in the "big games," etc... are going to have a lot of merit behind their questions. I don't think that Stoops is the kind of guy who would take questions like that as an insult rather than a challenge, but who knows for sure? I've seen him rip on sideline reporters who did AND didn't have it coming. (Adrian Karsten ALWAYS has it coming...)

That kind of unpredictability has carried over into his coaching. When all the chips are in the middle, we no longer know which Bob Stoops will show up, because, make no mistake about it, in terms of adjustments and motivation, we were out-coached last night. At Oklahoma, that is simply not acceptable.

I don't care if we lost Kelly early, if Paul turned the ball over 3? 4 times? I don't care. We kept doing things that weren't working because we expected them to work eventually, and, by the time Stoops had conceded that they would NOT work, we were in too big a hole to come back from... (Yes, I know we came back...but not really, eh?) He needs to seriously consider re-vamping his staff, especially his offensive staff. I think that, if we're not in the same position next year, you'll REALLY start to hear it, and, if we're in the same position next year, again, and lose... again, then the grumbles will become yelling.

Losing is tough, but not as tough as knowing that your $3 million man and his staff got outcoached by a coach whose team plays on a blue fucking field.

the_ouskull

Has the game passed him by? You kidding? He's in his mid 40's. Explain to me how his system is no longer a successful one?

Maybe you can say the defense underachieved this year, but hasn't the D gone downhill ever since his brother left for Arizona? Go get Pelini back, maybe that will help.

I don't like in OKC, but I can tell you that we watched the first half of the game at a sports bar in OKC on the drive home last night and the OU fans I talked to seemed to love Stoops. I'm just taking their word for it. Never did anyone mention to me that there were starting to be rumblings about his job security. And if there is, that's ridiculous. He's won probably 75% of his games, has a national title, played in 3 national championship games, and completely turned around a program that had been down for the better part of a decade all in an 8 year period. He did a great coaching job this year considering what he was dealt on offense. Boise State just showed some serios cajones last night and they got outcoached. Give Chris Peterson some props for that. Some of the playcalls he made last night......there was no way OU could have been expecting that.

If I were Lloyd Carr, I'd be a lot more worried about my job security than Bobby Stoops.

the_ouskull wrote:Adrian Karsten ALWAYS had it coming...

FTF the recently deceased

the_ouskull wrote:When all the chips are in the middle, we no longer know which Bob Stoops will show up, because, make no mistake about it, in terms of adjustments and motivation, we were out-coached last night. At Oklahoma, that is simply not acceptable.

Even the best coaches get out-coached on occasion. Lombardi certainly didn't win every big game he coached, and while I wasn't there to observe, I'd venture a guess that his team lost at least a few of those games because he got out-coached.

TheJON wrote:If I were Lloyd Carr, I'd be a lot more worried about my job security than Bobby Stoops.

Lloyd isn't going anywhere unless he's caught at a panty raid of the Omega Moos.

FLW Buckeye wrote:

TheJON wrote:If I were Lloyd Carr, I'd be a lot more worried about my job security than Bobby Stoops.

Lloyd isn't going anywhere unless he's caught at a panty raid of the Omega Moos.

True...the only thing he does to disgrace the school or the program is not beat Ohio State. Lloyd is a good person at his core but he's in a success-driven business and not winning key games could catch up with him at some point.

I can assure you that if you polled the entire non-Michigan Wolverine homer media what they though of Lloyd, they'd say he's a fucking asshole and they hope he gets fired.

Lloyd isn't going anywhere, but if he loses to tOSU next year.......uh-oh!

Calling bowls basically "exhibition games" is just moronic, Some OU-fans were calling the bowl that over on their scout.com board as-well. Exhibition games are what NFL teams play in August where the main-goal is to not get any starters hurt and to analyze who should be on the team. Bowl games count on your record, OU is now 11-3, if they had won they would be 12-2. Exhibition games aren't counted, bowls are. Bowls are highly-rated games played in front of a national audience, including the kids you want to sign next month. Acting like winning or losing one doesn't matter because it isn't for the MNC is just dumb. Bowl games count for reasons official and unofficial.

the_ouskull wrote:Losing is tough, but not as tough as knowing that your $3 million man and his staff got outcoached by a coach whose team plays on a blue fucking field.

the_ouskull

If Bama signs Saban, you better get ready for Stoop's corresponding pay raise.

Yeah. No doubt.

the_ouskull

Danimal wrote:Calling bowls basically "exhibition games" is just moronic, Some OU-fans were calling the bowl that over on their scout.com board as-well. Exhibition games are what NFL teams play in August where the main-goal is to not get any starters hurt and to analyze who should be on the team. Bowl games count on your record, OU is now 11-3, if they had won they would be 12-2. Exhibition games aren't counted, bowls are. Bowls are highly-rated games played in front of a national audience, including the kids you want to sign next month. Acting like winning or losing one doesn't matter because it isn't for the MNC is just dumb. Bowl games count for reasons official and unofficial.

I think they mean more to teams like Boise State who really got their name and program out there with their game. Does Michigan and USC worry about their national image when they played that game last night. From a pride standpoint, I'd think neither side would like to lose but at their core, these games don't mean a whole heck of a lot. To me, they're pretty much an encore game for teams who had .500 or better seasons. They win or lose doesn't make or break their season...their regular season should've determined where they stood in the big picture. The bowl season is football glutton's dream being able to watch games every day for a two or three weeks. If it's Troy vs. Rice or USC vs. Michigan...the hardcore fans sit in their easy chair and eat it up. I'm not killing those who watch the games and care about them...I'm just in the minority that don't find the reason why these games need to be played in the first place.

RadioFan wrote:Stoops, no. FUCK NO, in fact.

Defensive coordinators, maybe. Defensive staff shakeup, definitely.

Offensive coordinator: Give OU one.

OU's survived on the better part of three years with an outstanding runningback.

Personally, the 2000 team got me so excited I was ready to cream my pants seeing them take the field with that spread offense AND a decent runningback in Quinton Griffon, every freakin' game. But that era is over, and has been for the last several years. The Wishbone days are over. OU needs to get back to the damn spread offense, with a QB who can throw the ball.

Yeah, yeah, I know they have one coming in from Michigan, but they need to get away from this bullshit power running game.

Sure, that crap works when you're playing Middle Tennessee State during the second game of the season, but it sure as fuck doesn't work against an effective passing team with a decent defense that can get a few stops.

Defense wins championships. But only if you can throw the ball, on offense, especially when you're behind. Power running games don't win championships in 2007.

completely disagree on the running game, Texas won the MNC last year by running the ball down peoples throats, yes they had a good passing game but it was really opened up by everyone stacking the line to stop our running game.

Everyone knew Peterson wasn't 100% and Thompson doesn't scare anyone, I wouldn't blame this loss on the offense they scored 42 pts, the defense gave up 43 look no further than that.

Shoalzie wrote:I think they mean more to teams like Boise State who really got their name and program out there with their game. Does Michigan and USC worry about their national image when they played that game last night. From a pride standpoint, I'd think neither side would like to lose but at their core, these games don't mean a whole heck of a lot.

While I see where you are trying to go with this, and to a point I agree with your assessment on teams like Boise State and lower ranked BCS and Non BCS teams, I think if you asked any player or coach on Michigan and USC if their game didn't "mean a whole heck of a lot" they would have wholeheartedly disagreed with you.

Put the pipe down skull, we don't want Bob going anywhere.

If Ferentz leaves for the Steelers job, I would love to see Stoops get fired from OU! I'd even send each one of you Sooner fans a nice fruit basket for running him out of town!