T1B

"My guest for Tuesday January 9, 2007 is investigative reporter Robert Parry, author of Secrecy and Privilege: Rise of the Bush Dynasty from Watergate to Iraq and proprietor of Consortiumnews.com on the topic of the U.S. government’s long term covert relationship with Saddam Hussein and the possibility of war against Iran."

Scroll down to Antiwar Radio: Robert Parry...

...then RIGHT CLICK on Mp3 here. SAVE LINK AS...

The interview is a little over an hour long, but Parry ties in Iran-Contra, The 1980 "October Surprise", Saddam's WMD program,
Oil-For-Food and April Glaspie's meeting with Saddam quite nicely.


Don't be fooled by the name. Anti-War.com is a paleo-conservative group with no mushy feelings towards
liberals.

Parry is a fucking founder of the black-helicopter, "Clinton circle-of-death" crowd.

He's a crackpot on his best day

Cuda wrote: He's a crackpot on his best day and insane the rest of the time

ftfy.....

Felix wrote:

Cuda wrote: He's a crackpot on his best day and insane the rest of the time

ftfy.....

Shut up, cunt-chops. Resume your role as the Spin Zone doormat.

Martyred wrote: Shut up, cunt-chops. Resume your role as the Spin Zone doormat.

go ahead and link me up there shorty......

Felix wrote:

Martyred wrote: Shut up, cunt-chops. Resume your role as the Spin Zone doormat.

go ahead and link me up there shorty......

You're beatings are legendary.

I'd expect no less from a Pelosi-crat like yourself.

I'd like to debate this further, but I'm sure you have some hand-wringing to do.

mvscal wrote:I'm sure he's plenty of time for that and leaving snail tracks on your ankles.

well given your entry into the thread I can only assume that you're a big fan of Parry's....that's super...really...

hey while were talking all friendly and all I was wondering if you could give me an update on how the corporate welfare scam otherwise known as the missile defense system is coming....

have they been able to get one off the ground yet......

This...



... is a corporate welfare scam.

Missile defense is not.

This is a government welfare scam, btw...

Felix wrote:
hey while were talking all friendly and all

Marty doesn't like it when one of his anti American trolling threads gets called out for being the POS that it is.

Mister Bushice wrote:

Felix wrote:
hey while were talking all friendly and all

Marty doesn't like it when one of his anti American trolling threads gets called out for being the POS that it is.

Listen to the interview, then call it anything you like.

Most of your stuff is either jew hating or american bashing, and rarely worth the effort.

Cuda wrote:
Missile defense is not.

really......

three questions then....

first, which country do you see attacking us with ballistic missiles (remember, there are only two countries confirmed that have missiles capable or reaching the US)......straight up answer-no bullshit....it's either Russia or China (the miserable failure of the Taepodong excludes N. Korea from the conversation)...so which one......

second, do you think Rockwell will ever get one off the ground....nevermind hitting anything....

just get it off the ground.....

third, do you have any idea of the amount of money that's been spent on this hairbrained scheme......

marty....you can participate too affording you the opportunity to lay one of those legendary ass-kickings/beatdowns on me......

Quick question about "corporate welfare" scams. Don't these corporations employ American people who then in turn spend money in their communities ?

Tom In VA wrote:Quick question about "corporate welfare" scams. Don't these corporations employ American people who then in turn spend money in their communities ?

It's the $500 hammers that we taxpayers get charged for that sticks in the throat.

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Tom In VA wrote:Quick question about "corporate welfare" scams. Don't these corporations employ American people who then in turn spend money in their communities ?

It's called "Trickle-Down Economics"...
...and yeah, it's a fraud.

Martyred wrote:

Tom In VA wrote:Quick question about "corporate welfare" scams. Don't these corporations employ American people who then in turn spend money in their communities ?

It's called "Trickle-Down Economics"...
...and yeah, it's a fraud.

Really. And it's a fraud ? So the money they're spending isn't real ? Holy shit, somebody should tell them that, they might go to jail. Good catch Marty.

mvscal wrote:
In 15 or 20 years? Could be anybody with the way missile technology is currently proliferating.

yeah no doubt......

but there's always that prickly question/dilemna that faces a country willing to attack us.....

"how can we launch a ballistic missile attack on the US and avoid having our country turned into a glass parking lot"

that's a tough one........

mvscal wrote:
Would you prefer a full scale nuclear exchange or a little fizzle over the ocean? Make your time.

FTFY

mvscal wrote:And if they don't care? Or simply don't believe we would actually have the sack to retaliate?

You've used that "what if they don't care" argument before and it's no more valid than it was when you used it previously.....which country wouldn't "care"....and don't tell me Islamist fundys...they don't and never will have ballistic missiles.....

Would you prefer a full scale nuclear exchange or a little fizzle over the ocean? Take your time.

a little fizzle over the ocean...fuck dude, they can't get one off the launching pad.....

when you start throwing "decoy or phantom warheads" into the discussion the problems with developing a land based missile defense system are compounded exponentially....

and again, what country's could engage us in a full scale nuclear exchange? only ones capable are Russia and China.......and those are the only two countrys that will ever possess that capability......

or are you now going to tell me that the US will allow a country like Iran or Syria to develop a nuclear arsenal equal to that of Russia or China....

mvscal wrote:
Iran already has ballistic missiles as does Pakistan.

yeah, but neither of those countrys have nor will they ever possess enough nuclear weapons to engage the United States in a full scale nuclear attack.......

you yourself have stated that the US will never allow Iran (or anybody else) to develop a nuclear arsenal.....

Israeli's won't allow it either.....

so, which of the countrys that currently possess a nuclear arsenal capable of engaging us in a full scale attack are going to launch a nuclear strike on us....it's really pretty simple....

you've got two choices.......

A: China
B: Russia

mvscal wrote: Neither does China for that matter. Your insistance that there can only be two possibilities reaching far into the future is contrived and idiotic.

so you're disputing my assertion that the US will never allow a country that doesn't already possess nukes to develop a nuclear arsenal.......

go ahead, make your case......

(this I've got to hear)

mvscal wrote:
Your assertion has already been shitcanned by North Korea

they're too busy trying to raise giant rabbits for food...

India

yep, one of our most feared enemies.......

and with that vast ballistic missile lineup they have it makes them that much more dangerous.....unfortunately, they care about living....

Pakistan.

yeah, another avowed enemy....exactly what are their ballistic missile capabilities....

I can see your struggling here so let me lay the ground work for you

the country you identify first and foremost must not care whether they're evaporated from the face of the planet......

second, they must possess a big enough nuclear arsenal to fully engage us in a nuclear war.....

third, they must possess ICBM capable of reaching the United States.....

fourth, they must be able to pull all of this off without the US becoming wise to it.....

that should narrow it down significantly.........

mvscal wrote:Go fuck yourself, dipshit.

your surrender is duly noted.......

mvscal wrote:Check back in when you're capable of having an intelligent and rational discussion on the subject.

okay, point out which post you consider to be unintelligent and irrational....and provide an explanation of why

You are a fucking moron and your "conditions" are asinine.

you assert that India and Pakistan pose nuclear threats to the US and you're calling me asinine???

yukin it up here bud.....

Uhhhh....Felix?

PSSSST!!!!!

India and Pakistan both have approximately twice as many(or more) nukes than China.

China could barely engage Los Angeles, much less the United States.

Yukin it up here, bud.

mvscal wrote:
The entire thing top to bottom is irrational and pitifully stupid. The fact that you require an explanation of the simple fact that the world as it is this moment will bear no relation to the world as it will be in the future underscores your imbecility.

so what you're saying here is that in 15 to 20 years potentially things will be significantly different (insofar as our relationships with other countries, technology, etc.). Okay, that explains why were dumping so much money into technology that in 15 or 20 years will be essentially of no use.....great idea.....

Now..this very second? Probably not. In ten years, who knows? It is easily conceivable that radical Islamists could seize power in Pakistan.

yet we're spending money like drunken sailors on technology that will be useless in the same time frame.....schweet.......

now I've asked you this before and you've never answered.....which do you think is the more likely scenario....for us to be attacked by one of the countries capable of launching ballistic missiles at us......or for some fucking nut job fundy to smuggle a nuke into the US and detonate it.......

answer that and you'll know where I feel the US should be spending their security money.....

Dinsdale wrote:Uhhhh....Felix?

PSSSST!!!!!

India and Pakistan both have approximately twice as many(or more) nukes than China.

China could barely engage Los Angeles, much less the United States.

Yukin it up here, bud.

yeah, unfortunately neither of those countries has the capability of delivering them to the US in the form of an ICBM......

and to be perfectly honest, we really don't know exactly what China is capable of.....

damn......

technological advances within the last five years have been pretty significant.....

what do you think they'll be in 15 to 20 years?

India and Pakistan don't have to target the USA with nukes...they only have to ignite a local nuclear exchange (which is the most likely case for nuclear war currently) to set off a greater conflagration.

Loosing your oil supply (Persian Gulf) and major trading partner (China/Japan/Korea) is bad enough.

Felix wrote:technological advances within the last five years have been pretty significant.....

what do you think they'll be in 15 to 20 years?

And how many of those technological advancements have come around due to R&D efforts, typically initiated and funded by DoD to large corporations to invent some new weapon or anti-weapon ?

Rephrased and put in YOUR context ... .How many technological advancements today are a result of "lessons learned" or unforeseen consequences of "corporate welfare" programs.

The money the Fed has thrown around looking better ways to communicate, kill, detect, hide, and otherwise gain a strategic advantage over enemies has put a lot of American kids through college, put food on tables, and stimulated the economy.

Oh, it's also yielded things like DARPANET, cellular technology, video games, etc.. .etc..

Tom In VA wrote:
Rephrased and put in YOUR context ... .How many technological advancements today are a result of "lessons learned" or unforeseen consequences of "corporate welfare" programs.

You can easily be making the case for Mengele and Nazi medical experimentation with that statement.

Think before you speak.

Martyred wrote:

Tom In VA wrote:
Rephrased and put in YOUR context ... .How many technological advancements today are a result of "lessons learned" or unforeseen consequences of "corporate welfare" programs.

You can easily be making the case for Mengele and Nazi medical experimentation with that statement.

Think before you speak.

Totally out of context and kindly refute my assertion with facts rather than appeals to emotion such as that.

Felix wrote: yet we're spending money like drunken sailors on technology that will be useless in the same time frame.....schweet.......

30-35 years ago, the Soviets spent money like drunken sailors on space-mounted nukes. 30 years later, they're still the baddest ass offensive weapon there is. Less than 20-30 minutes to turn American targets to ashes.

What both the Soviet and American defensive sytems(neither country perfected anything, nor are they particularly close), and the offensive systems as well(since the offensive weapons are cirtually the only defensive weapons) have in common, is they are/were designed for upgradibility, since believe it or not...the guys who come up with that shit are pretty familiar with the idea that technology evolves.

As far as the Russians...the Soviets could have pushed a few buttons and could have nearly rendered the US ground based ICBM arsenal useless, due to much, much more pinpoint guidance systems. Since the end of the Cold War, this isn't the case, and the US has equalled, or surpassed the Russian pinpoint accuracy of delivery(the Avergae Joe doesn't realize how vastly far ahead of the US the Soviets were in this department throughout the Cold War)...until recent years, a 75 meter target area was a pipe dream for the US, and a standard for the Soviets...and the 75 meter difference(US capability topped out at about 150 meters during the Cold War) in capabilities makes a major-league difference when attacking silos -- a 150 meter-away strike is very hit-or-miss, a 75 meter strike is 90%+ effective. And if they started dropping the space weapons, the US wouldn't even get the silo doors open before the missile was useless). If they saw no need to do this while they were ahead of the game, it defies any logic why they would start now, now that they're behind. With the US precision guidance systems of today, and the array of weapons and superior bombers, and the unstoppable Tomahawk(the early incarnation of which the Soviets got fits of laughter out of, but it's been vastly improved), that leaves "equality" in only the sea-based leg of the triad, and the equality is questionable. If it didn't sound like a winner to the Ruskies then, it surely sounds like suicide now.


The point is, military technology doesn't become outdated nearly as quickly as civilian technology.


Sin,
Spent way too much time studying this shit


Bottom line...only a fool or a radical group(but I repeat myself) would step to the US with nukes. And a radical group couldn't get ahold of enough of an arsenal to do anything besides make for one very tragic day...for which MANY would pay, defeating their cause. Despite what many believe, while the US may not be able to defend against a quick attack, or a smuggled nuke(good luck with that), they have some pretty serious contingencies in the case of that emergency to ensure it would be limited.

People have actually put some thought into this before now. And if you read the works of people who were involved in nuclear warfare planning, or have made it their life's work, the strategies of nuclear war are suprisingly simple -- basically a simple tiered-system of deterrence and response.

Tom In VA wrote:

Martyred wrote:

Tom In VA wrote:
Rephrased and put in YOUR context ... .How many technological advancements today are a result of "lessons learned" or unforeseen consequences of "corporate welfare" programs.

You can easily be making the case for Mengele and Nazi medical experimentation with that statement.

Think before you speak.

Totally out of context and kindly refute my assertion with facts rather than appeals to emotion such as that.

Out of context? Pot meet fucking kettle, Tom.

So the by-product of your military misery is sweet, wholesome goodness, but the Nazi's was death and despair?
You're ashamed to recognize that it's two sides of the same coin.

The way of peace is an entirely different coin. I choose the way of non-intervention, and by extension, peace.

okay, lets sum it up here.....

you all are arguing that we should be spending billions of dollars on a program that has absolutely no possibility of ever being a success.....now if you want to read why it won't work, you can find it here

http://www.ucsusa.org/global_security/m ... -work.html

click over on the right hand side of the page and you'll find the technical data, videos, etc. The study was developed by two physicists from MIT......

What I'm arguing here is that we're wasting money on this hare brained bullshit when we should be spending it on making our country more secure from some Islamic fundy smuggling a nuke into downtown Detroit and setting it off (not that evaporating Detroit would necessarily be bad).....

but the prospect of some nutcase detonating a nuke in one of our larger cities to me is a much more realistic possibilty than one of the few countries possessing the capabilites of reigning down a nuclear attack on the US....knowing full well that such an act would result in said countries total fucking annilihation.....

Martyred wrote: Out of context? Pot meet fucking kettle, Tom.

So the by-product of your military misery is sweet, wholesome goodness, but the Nazi's was death and despair?
You're ashamed to recognize that it's two sides of the same coin.

The way of peace is an entirely different coin. I choose the way of non-intervention, and by extension, peace.

Well you're a saint Marty. Personally I'm not aware of medical science benefitting from Dr. Mengele. If you have facts you'd like to share, please do.

As for how DoD contracting works, employing people, employing lots of people in R&D efforts and technology that might not have met it's intended purpose being used in other commercially viable means, I'm somewhat aware of them.

So again, do you have some facts Marty ? To help you focus, facts about any benefits to mankind that Dr. Mengele's experiments brought. I have the hot sauce and pepper ready if I have to eat crow, I don't mind eating crow, I'd just like to see YOU bring something other than b.s. to the table. Bring me some crow, dog.

TIA

mvscal wrote:It isn't an either or proposition. We're perfectly capable of doing both.

it's called PRIORITIES dumbfuck......

Spare me the "it will never work" bullshit.

Fucking Christ, we'd still be living in caves if we listened to idiots like you.

seriously, if you want to dispute what they've written, then lay it out.....you and you're handwringing buds are the ones that keep telling us these guys are coming to get us....and now you're telling me that we're better off spending our time and money on the horseshit proposition as opposed to spending our time and money securing our borders.....

is that what you're trying to sell me here.....

damn bud, you are fucking tedious to say the least....

mvscal wrote: Missile defense is an engineering and R&D problem.

I'll tell you what.......seeing as how you're so big on this horseshit money grab.......

I'll make you a wager right now....

I'll bet you $500 that they won't be able get the thing to work within the next 5 years.......by work, I mean a confirmed hit on a target that isn't preprogrammed into their ground based radar detection system.......

you game........

You should define the distance...

Mister Bushice wrote:You should define the distance...

any fucking distance.....it doesn't matter....

the thing won't fucking work....even if they get one to fly (highly doubtful), the system simply cannot adapt for the countermeasures (which sad to say, the Russians are now retrofitting onto their existing missiles......the Chinese will follow suit no doubt......)

what this has done is it's pretty much guaranteed that if there was an accidental launch of a Russian missile, there's virtually no hope of the US ever shooting it down, because it will be equipped with the countermeasures designed to defeat any land based missile defense system.......

IT WON'T FUCKING WORK.......