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This has been an ugly year in recruiting

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 3:17 pm
by Killian
There has been more mud slinging than I can ever remember. Add to that the amount of kids that switched their commitments and I think we will see some changes instituted in the next year or two, specifically an early signing period.

Here are some interesting articles as they relate to Illinois and their recent recruiting "success". The mud slinging between them and ND has been pretty heavy.

The New York Times
nytimes.com

February 7, 2007

Illinois Has Rivals Fuming About Its Recruiting Coup

By PETE THAMEL and THAYER EVANS

Illinois, one of the worst teams among the major conferences in college football in recent seasons, has astounded experts and enraged rivals by putting together one of the nation’s best recruiting classes.

When recruits make their final commitments on national signing day today, Illinois Coach Ron Zook is expected to have collected one of the strongest groups in the Big Ten and among the country’s top 15. In several cases, the Illini won head-to-head recruiting battles against traditional powers like Notre Dame, Michigan and Ohio State.

Among those likely to sign with Illinois are Martez Wilson, a defensive end from Chicago who is seen as the country’s top prospect at the position, and Arrelious Benn, a wide receiver from Washington who is considered among the three best players at his position. Benn is already enrolled and taking classes on campus in Champaign. Both players had suitors like Notre Dame, Southern California and Ohio State.

The success at Illinois has left the world of college football abuzz with a question: How did a program that went 4-19 the past two seasons, including 1-15 in its conference, persuade so many top players to sign?

John L. Smith, who was recently dismissed as the head coach at Michigan State, expressed a view shared privately by many rival coaches and recruiters: “If they had a winning program and all of that, it would be a different deal. If they had the greatest facilities in the world, then maybe they could sell them. But what are they selling?”

He added, “Where there’s smoke, there’s probably fire.”

But Jim Delany, the commissioner of the Big Ten, made an unsolicited call to a reporter for The New York Times to say that “blogosphere smoke” was the reason for any suspicion surrounding the Illinois class. “Around signing day,” he said, “smoke does not equal fire.”

Tom Lemming, a longtime recruiting expert now with CSTV, said a recruiting class this good at a university like Illinois, with little recent tradition, was virtually unprecedented. “I’ve never seen anything like it in 28 years,” he said.

Neither have the assistant coaches who recruit in Chicago, the center of Big Ten recruiting and a city where the Illini have done well.

“If something is going on, they’ll get theirs,” said the Wisconsin assistant coach Randall McCray, who recruits in Chicago for the Badgers. “But if nothing is going on, it’s just jealous people that are getting beat in recruiting. I don’t know.”

Illinois has a long history of National Collegiate Athletic Association violations in basketball and football predating the arrival of Zook and his staff before the 2005 season. University officials dismissed complaints about this year’s class as the product of envy, and they said Illini coaches had thrived with a pitch of playing time and potential.

“Illinois is a pretty darn good place,” said Ron Guenther, the university’s athletic director. “And we’re going to roll up our sleeves and battle with the heavyweights.”

In a telephone interview Monday, Guenther said the university hired an outside law firm to investigate anonymous tips and complaints about suspected recruiting improprieties, and to determine the source of rumors about the program. He said the investigation had cost the university thousands of dollars.

Guenther also said he and Illinois coaches were convinced that another university’s coaching staff had leaked unflattering personal information about recruits to a Web site. He would not name the Web site or the university, other than to say it was not a Big Ten program.

“I take this stuff so seriously,” he said. “I have an interest in the coach’s and the program’s reputation. It’s defamation of character, and it’s got to be challenged.”

Illinois knew it was getting a strong recruiter, if not a top football strategist and disciplinarian, when it hired Zook. While he was the coach at Florida, he signed 20 of the 22 players who would become starters on the Gators’ recent national championship team. Zook declined interview requests, saying he would not comment until after signing day.

But with only three Big Ten titles since 1964, Illinois does not have nearly the recent tradition or the built-in fan support that the Gators enjoy. Nor does it have nearly the same fertile recruiting ground.

Still, Zook is once again showing how adept he is at navigating the murky world of attracting high school prospects.

For every blockbuster signing at Illinois, there is a logical link.

Benn, for instance, is from Washington, where the Illini’s offensive coordinator, Mike Locksley, has strong ties. Locksley recruited the same area for Maryland, including as its recruiting coordinator from 1998 through February 2003. (Locksley was still the recruiting coordinator at Maryland when an assistant coach was caught giving cash to a high school prospect, Victor Abiamiri, who ended up going to Notre Dame. Locksley was not accused of wrongdoing.)

Benn’s decision to join Illinois was considered a huge surprise outside Champaign. He had talked eagerly throughout his recruitment about playing at Notre Dame with the country’s top-ranked quarterback prospect, Jimmy Clausen. Instead, he chose to play in the Big Ten’s worst pass offense with Isiah Williams, who completed less than 40 percent of his passes last season and was statistically one of the country’s worst passing quarterbacks.

In the case of Wilson and other Chicago-area prospects, Zook landed him partly because of the strong local connections of the assistant coach Reggie Mitchell. When Zook was hired, he lured Mitchell from Smith’s staff at Michigan State.

The Illini also landed a player who originally committed to Florida, D’Angleo McCray, from Jacksonville. The Illini assistant coach Dan Disch was a high school coach in that city for years.

In attracting McCray and Benn, the Illinois staff first received commitments from high school teammates who were not nearly as highly regarded as a way to help show their interest.

“There’s no real formula outside of just plain, hard work,” Guenther said. “He gets in early, and the staff has contacts in different areas. And he’s just so darn competitive.”

On the field, however, Zook’s teams have not been so competitive. He was fired halfway through his third season at Florida after a loss at Mississippi State in October 2004. Along the way, he lost twice to the University of Mississippi and finished with a 23-14 record.

Perhaps his defining moment was when he had a verbal altercation with members of a Florida fraternity in September of his final season. That year, seven of his players had brushes with the law. Of the 70 players Zook recruited at Florida, 32 left the program, transferred, or were kicked off the team. That does not include players who left for the N.F.L.

Florida’s coach, Urban Meyer, stressed off-the-field discipline from the moment he stepped on campus.

The most highly regarded player in the Illini’s recruiting class from last season, defensive lineman Melvin Alaeze, left the university for personal reasons in the fall. Alaeze was charged with attempted murder in December in his native Maryland. Illinois took Alaeze after Maryland rescinded his scholarship offer following a marijuana-related arrest and his struggles to qualify academically.

Guenther said allowing Alaeze a scholarship was a “character risk.”

Kevin Johns, an assistant coach at Northwestern, said: “We’re recruiting two different types of character, two different types of kids. They can get in almost any kid that they want. We have to go through academic admissions.”

To recruits who have committed to, visited and considered Illinois, much of the appeal comes down to the opportunity to play right away and to the allure of turning around a losing program. None of the eight recruits interviewed for this article said they had been offered anything illegal by Illinois coaches or staff members.

“A lot of people think just because they’re getting big-name recruits in that there’s got to be something dirty going on,” said Josh Brent, a defensive tackle from Bloomington, Ill., who picked Illinois over Ohio State, Michigan and Wisconsin. “Me, speaking personally from going through the recruiting process at Illinois, I have never been offered anything. I have never seen anything of that sort.”

Marvin Austin, a defensive tackle from Washington considered among the best at his position, visited Illinois but has since narrowed his list to North Carolina and Florida State.

Austin said numerous recruits from the Washington area had taken an interest in Illinois because of Locksley. Austin said that the Illini had done a good job of recruiting in urban areas and that recruits were realizing they could go to less successful programs, where they could earn playing time early and more exposure.

“People are scared of what they don’t understand,” Austin said. “And I don’t think they understand why kids are going to Illinois.”


When the Word Isn't Quite Final

By Alan Goldenbach
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, February 7, 2007; E01



Today it becomes official. The nation's top senior high school football players will formally sign letters-of-intent accepting scholarship offers. For many, the ritual only reaffirms an oral commitment made to the college sometime over the past 18 months.

Players make oral commitments early in the recruiting process because they believe it stifles the almost incessant communication between the athlete and the schools vying for his talents. In the NCAA's "contact period" in late November, December and the weeks leading up to signing day, recruits can expect calls from coaches every day, right up until today, not to mention countless text messages from colleges at all hours of the day through the season, and constant queries from friends and family of "Where are you going to go?"

But committing early rarely halts the badgering. Not only do other programs continue to recruit players who have already "verbaled" to a school, but players and coaches say the dynamic between recruit and school changes after the oral commitment is made, and communication that once was warm and glowing can get downright nasty.

"I thought I'd make my decision and that would be it," said Arrelious Benn, who announced his commitment to Illinois on ESPNU on Nov. 9 before graduating from Dunbar in December and enrolling in Champaign last month. After the commitment? "That's when it got worse. These are grown men. Why can't they live with the decision I made?"

Throughout his junior school year, Benn said he had considered Notre Dame his top choice, but when he felt as though the Fighting Irish coaching staff was putting too much pressure on him to commit he stopped considering the school. Once Benn orally committed to Illinois, Notre Dame assistant Peter Vaas continued to pepper Benn with text messages and voice mails, some of which Benn provided to The Post:

"FYI, ILL is telling Robert Hughes that they will build their offense around him? Didn't they tell you that?

Coach Vaas," Vaas wrote Benn on Dec. 17.

Earlier that month, Vaas left this voice message on Benn's phone: "You don't want to do anything except bury your head in the sand. . . . I guess you're not tough enough to compete at the big level."

Vaas, who was let go as quarterbacks coach by the Irish after their 44-14 loss to LSU in the Sugar Bowl, did not deny leaving the messages. He said last night that even though Benn made his announcement on national television, that isn't necessarily a recruit's final word.

"Did he say [he was going to Illinois] to me? Did I see him on TV?" Vaas said. "There's an awful lot of rumors or innuendo out there . . . and kids change their minds after they do that. A lot of times, it depends upon what kind of conviction a kid has about a place. You know how you read between the lines? As a recruiter, I have to hear between the lines."

A Notre Dame spokesman declined to comment last night.

There are plenty of times when the pressure works, and players change their commitments.

"When we find out a kid's orally committed," said Allen Wallace, who founded SuperPrep magazine in 1985 and is now national recruiting editor for the Web site Scout.com, "one of the first things I ask is, 'What are the percentages that the kid is going to follow through?' I ask if he's going to take any more visits or accept calls.

"Some of them treat their commitment as a fall-back position, like, 'At least, I'll have somewhere to go.' " Wallace estimated between 5 and 10 percent of all oral commitments are broken, but added, "It's hard to keep track of because it's so prevalent."

Sometimes a player will make a commitment, but then see his recruiting stock rise, either through strong summer workouts or a standout senior season, which will attract scholarship offers from higher profile schools.

Coaches said an oral commitment only shows a player is in demand.

After the oral commitment "people know who the competition is," Connecticut Coach Randy Edsall said. "Once that kid gives you a verbal commitment, you can't relax and stop recruiting. If you do, someone will say, 'When was the last time you heard from that school?' Then they come in and start recruiting him."

Said Virginia Tech associate head coach Billy Hite, who is beginning his 30th season with the Hokies, "You have to recruit him as if he hasn't committed to you until the national signing day."

An oral commitment is by no means binding, and schools have been known to back out as well. They may lose interest in a recruit, realize they made a poor evaluation before offering him a scholarship, or just recruit other more talented players at that position.

In June 2004, Northwest running back Tony Nelson orally committed to Clemson, and fielded a steady stream of calls from the Tigers' staff throughout football season. But for the last three weeks of December, Nelson never heard from Clemson.

"With Tony, the line of communication was open," Northwest Coach Randy Trivers said, "and then it was a dark period. That's when I knew something was up."

On Jan. 4, four weeks before signing day, Clemson recruiting coordinator David Blackwell called Trivers to say Clemson had withdrawn Nelson's scholarship offer because Nelson had not yet qualified academically. Left with few options, Nelson signed with Division I-AA Massachusetts, where he qualified academically, but redshirted as a freshman.

Pulling offers can be risky for colleges, however, because it can affect the way they deal with future recruits. Wallace said it happens enough, though, that players will continue to talk to other schools after orally committing to a program.

"They can always say, 'Hey, schools can pull my offer,' " Wallace said.

Ballou senior offensive lineman Lamar Milstead committed to North Carolina last June, but he knew it was far from firm. He soured on his top choice, Virginia, when the Cavaliers' recruiter, Ron Prince, left to take over at Kansas State. Milstead said he wanted to orally commit somewhere to be safe, and see how the situations at the other schools that offered him shook out during his senior season.

"I figured I'd get this over with, catch up on my [school] work and then get back to the recruiting later," Milstead said. "I wasn't entirely sure about [my commitment] but I wasn't going to tell [North Carolina] that. Just like they told me what I wanted to hear, I told them what they wanted to hear. It's just to get them off your back. You want the whole pursuing thing to stop. You just want to be the one to make the decision."

After North Carolina fired coach John Bunting during last season, Milstead said he realized he wasn't in the Tar Heels' plans when new coach Butch Davis didn't call him for two months after being hired. Milstead said he called Virginia two weeks ago, and asked if its scholarship offer still stood. When told it did, Milstead accepted it.

Milstead knows he got lucky. The majority of BCS conference programs hope to complete the large majority of their recruiting several months before signing day. Hite said Virginia Tech has 95 percent of its slots filled eight months before signing day. Edsall said Connecticut had 21 players orally committed before Christmas.

"We would have loved to have had those kids signed and off the market," Edsall said, "but now we've got kids who we've got commitments from who are still getting calls."

Said Hite, "Obviously, it's a big problem in college football, and I'm not so sure that they shouldn't have an early-signing period because of it."

Unlike most other sports, football does not have an early-signing period. Basketball recruits, for example, can sign during a week in November, just before the start of their senior season.

"I'm in favor of an early-signing period," DeMatha Coach Bill McGregor said. "That would stop all the nonsense."

Grant Teaff, executive director of the American Football Coaches Association, said his membership is considering drafting a proposal to the NCAA for an early-signing period. One stumbling block, though, is when that period should be. Offering it before the start of a recruit's senior season would be tough because NCAA rules prohibit recruits from taking official visits -- all-expense trips paid for by the university -- until the first day of classes of their senior year.

Junior college transfers can sign football letters-of-intent beginning Dec. 20. Edsall said he thinks high schoolers should be allowed to sign at that time, as well. Even six weeks ahead of regular signing day, he said, would make a big difference.

"You're giving a chance to students to end the process in December," he said, "and as a coach, if you have a kid and he doesn't want to sign in December, that should tell you something. Everybody calls each other's bluff a little bit."


Accusations lead to hostility in recruiting battles

By Teddy Greenstein

Chicago Tribune

CHICAGO - ``Nasty" was the word of the day.

And not "nasty" as in the way Charlie Weis promised his Irish would play when Notre Dame hired him.

This was a day in which whispered accusations gave way to outright hostility, a day on which two prominent recruits dissed Notre Dame and Illinois was left defending its recruiting practices after signing a top-15 class.

The tone was set early by a New York Times story headlined: "Illinois Has Rivals Fuming About Its Recruiting Coup."

Fired Michigan State coach John L. Smith questioned how a school whose team went 4-19 during the last two seasons could attract such a top-notch class, telling the newspaper: "If they had a winning program and all of that, it would be a different deal. If they had the greatest facilities in the world, then maybe they could sell them. But what are they selling?

"Where there's smoke, there's probably fire," added Smith, whose Spartans were the Illini's only Big Ten victim this season.

Northwestern even entered the fray, with Wildcats receivers coach Kevin Johns telling the paper: "We're recruiting two different types of character, two different types of kids. They can get in almost any kid that they want. We have to go through academic admissions."

Illinois coach Ron Zook downplayed the controversy, saying during an interview on ESPNU: "Today is a day for our players. I know this: If that's all (the Times) can find after all the time they spent, that just makes you feel that much better about the program."

In December Zook told The Tribune: "There are no skeletons in our closet."

During a Wednesday conference call Zook said accusations of "impropriety ... the notion that not all was up to snuff (are off base).

"For people to say those things. ... One, we're not going to have people like that in our program. Two, if you get to know our people, you'll realize they are not that way," Zook said. "For the most part we know where (the accusations) are coming from. It's a shame for people to throw things out there and try to take away from a great university and program."

Illinois officials wouldn't acknowledge it, but there's little doubt they suspect Notre Dame is behind the accusations.

The two teams battled over the last few months for three prominent recruits: Washington, D.C., receiver Arrelious Benn; Simeon defensive end/receiver Martez Wilson and Hubbard running back Robert Hughes.

Benn and Wilson signed with Illinois; Hughes is bound for South Bend.

Notre Dame contends Benn gave one of its coaches an oral commitment months ago that wasn't publicized. Those are considered "silent" commitments.

Last week Justin Trattou, a defensive end from Ramsey, N.J., who had committed to Notre Dame in May, switched to Florida. A key factor in his decision was Greg Mattison, Florida's co-defensive coordinator and former Irish defensive coordinator.

The Irish lost two more players Wednesday: Greg Little, a receiver from North Carolina who committed to the Irish in November, announced he would play for the Tar Heels.

Nothing, though, can top the tale of Chris Little, a 6-foot-5-inch, 342-pound lineman from Georgia who's not related to Greg.

Little committed to Florida State on live TV during the Jan. 6 Army All-America Bowl. Then he switched to Notre Dame, explaining that he was confused about his mother's preference. On Wednesday he declared he would attend Georgia.

"All's fair in love and recruiting," CSTV analyst Tom Lemming said, "but I've never seen anything like this. Some kids are more of a pain than they're worth. The self-entitlement of some players now is completely out of control.

"Committing early now just means that one school is the leader. It's a bull's-eye and tells the other coaches which school they should bad-mouth."

For his part, Weis said the word "commitment" needs to be redefined in recruiting.

"If you're married," he said, "you shouldn't be looking at other women."

Weis said he would push for the creation of an early-signing period, so players who commit early would not be hounded by rival coaches. Weis would like that period to culminate with an Aug. 1 early signing date.

Even if the American Football Coaches Association cannot gain approval on that from the NCAA, Weis said he would change the way he solicits commitments in the future.

"No soft verbals, no silent verbals, no quiet verbals, OK?" he said. "Either you're committed or you're not committed. ... I think we have to define exactly what the rules are."

But Notre Dame took a shot from Benn in that regard. He told the Washington Post in a story published Wednesday that Irish assistant Peter Vaas, whom the school let go after the season, peppered him with text messages and phone calls after he had committed to Illinois.

Benn provided one such text message to the Post dated Dec. 17. It read: "FYI, ILL is telling Robert Hughes that they will build their offense around him. Didn't they tell you that? Coach Vaas."

Weis' reply?

"You ask me if coach Vaas sent him texts. Sure he sent him texts," he said. "You probably could go ask the kid if he committed to us beforehand too_see what he says to that one. It comes down to those silent verbals, all that other type of stuff.

"I don't think coach Vaas was trying to do anything unethical. ... I think (Benn) should wish him well and not point a finger."

Speaking of pointing fingers, ESPNU analyst Mike Gottfried angrily defended Zook over the New York Times story. Gottfried apparently remains close to Zook, whom he hired as his defensive coordinator at Cincinnati in 1981 and at Kansas in 1983.

After calling the story a "cheap shot," Gottfried held up a copy of it and said, "This is not true. The Bill O'Reilly (program) on Fox (News), he has been after the New York Times all year about getting on President Bush ... inaccurate facts and all that. This is inaccurate also.

"What has happened is there's a Midwest university that's out there that has lost some players to Illinois. They're crying, they're complaining: `There must be cheating going on because why wouldn't the players come to our school and why are they going to Illinois?'

"I wouldn't wrap dead fish in this paper, the New York Times. I don't care about it, and it's wrong."

It was that kind of day.

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 3:47 pm
by Goober McTuber
UW football: Bielema a proponent of recruiting to the final whistle

By Jim Polzin

The recruiting process wasn't finished for David Gilreath in mid-August when he verbally committed to play for Minnesota.

Actually, it was only just beginning for the standout prep receiver from the Minneapolis area.

Word travels quick in the recruiting world, and it didn't take long for the members of the University of Wisconsin coaching staff to discover a prospect they coveted had committed to a rival school.

"I was kind of shocked how fast they found out," Gilreath said. "I heard from them that night."

The Badgers staff wanted to make it clear they weren't ready to give up on Gilreath.

"They just wanted to know why I did it," Gilreath said. "They weren't mad at me. They just said they were going to still recruit me. I was like, 'OK.' "

And so it went - tight ends coach Bob Bostad, who recruits the state of Minnesota for the Badgers, led the pursuit of Gilreath until he eventually changed his mind. Gilreath verbally committed to the UW last month and was expected to sign a letter of intent today on college football's national signing day.

Gilreath's story was far from the exception in the 2007 recruiting class that Badgers coach Bret Bielema and his staff assembled. The UW's refusal to take no for an answer helped it build a strong class and also, in a few cases, steal the thunder from some of its Big Ten Conference rivals.

Including Gilreath, five UW recruits jumped ship after previously making non-binding verbal commitments to other programs. Defensive back Mario Goins (Arizona), safety Quincy Landingham (Michigan State), and linebackers Kevin Rouse (Iowa) and Blake Sorensen (Northwestern) all had pledged their respective allegiances elsewhere before changing their minds and choosing the Badgers.

What fans on opposing schools message boards might call dirty tactics, Bielema calls perseverance.

"Until they tell you, 'Hey, I don't want you to call here anymore,' or the (high school) coach or someone tells you, 'Stop doing this,' we don't see it's in our best interest (to stop)," Bielema said. "There's a reason there's a signing day. It's open recruiting until then."

Of course, it can work both ways. Two players who originally had committed to the Badgers - defensive backs Donte Neal and C.J. Peake - changed their minds during the stretch run of the recruiting process. Neal is headed to Missouri, while Peake was expected to sign with Louisville.

Athletes decommitting isn't exactly a new phenomenon, but it seems to be a growing trend in recent years. The most high-profile decommitment involved Eric Gordon, who's currently one of the top players in this year's senior basketball class. After originally choosing Illinois, the Indianapolis native backed out of that commitment and chose Indiana after being wooed by the Hoosiers' new coach, Kelvin Sampson.

Gordon's decision drew the ire of Illini faithful and caused considerable tension between Sampson and Illinois coach
Bruce Weber.

The Illini football program had a decommit this week as well, but this one was understandable: Clint Brewster, a quarterback from Denver, decided to attend Minnesota, where his father Tim recently was named coach.

"You'd like to think that a kid's going to make an educated decision, and if he makes it early on, that's where he wants to go," said Todd Bell, the director of media relations for the American Football Coaches Association. "But it's a tough choice for an 18-year-old kid to pick where he wants to go to college. That's going to affect the rest of his life, really. It's part of the process, unfortunately."

Also fueling that process is the pressure cooker of being a Division I-A coach whose job depends on bringing talented players into the program.

"These coaches are salesmen," said Derek Fisher, Gilreath's coach at Robbinsdale Armstrong High School in Plymouth, Minn. "They want to get the best, and it's win at all costs. Their jobs depend on it. There's a lot of pressure."

Change of heart

Pressure is just one of the reasons players feel the need to make college decisions before they may be totally ready to do so.

That's what happened in the case of Sorensen, who committed to Northwestern last summer because he felt like his offer from the Wildcats might be pulled if he didn't commit right away.

"I had some doubts," Sorensen said. "There was some pressure to commit there, and I didn't really know how the Wisconsin deal was going to work out. Luckily, I got an offer from Wisconsin, so I changed."

It's certainly not uncommon for players to jump at the first scholarship they receive, in part to protect themselves in case of injury. It also puts the athlete in the driver's seat, in some regards.

"Some (prep) coaches will tell a kid, 'If you get an offer, take it. Now you've got a bird in hand. Now you can start looking to see where you really want to sign,' " said former UW coach Barry Alvarez, who's now the school's athletic director.

For Gilreath, it was a case of deciding too soon. Back in August, he was almost positive he wanted to play for the homestate Gophers - "90 percent," he said - but a trip to Madison for a game, combined with seeing the Badgers pile up victory after victory each week en route to a 12-1 season, caused a change in heart.

He said it also meant a lot that Bostad and Co. kept recruiting him.

"That played a big part," Gilreath said. "A lot of teams could have just dropped off but they stayed with it."

Sometimes, no really does mean no

Persistence didn't always work for the Badgers. Bielema and his staff tried to pry another recruit away from Iowa, but Bryan Buluga, a highly regarded offensive lineman from Woodstock, Ill., refused to budge.

Buluga committed to the Hawkeyes back in May, but that didn't stop the Badgers, among others, from pursuing him. Buluga said the UW finally gave up about three weeks ago.

"You make a commitment, that's huge," Buluga said. "I think it's a big judge of character once you commit. It showed the Iowa staff they could trust in me."

Every time he got a call from the UW, Buluga had the same thing to say. Thanks, but no thanks.

"I would tell them I'm a solid commit," Buluga said. "They'd just say, 'We'll keep going until you sign.' I understood. You know, things happen. Guys change their minds and second-guess their decisions."

Not Buluga. And not Josh Oglesby, the prized recruit in the UW's class.

Oglesby, an offensive tackle from St. Francis who's considered one of the top players in the nation, picked the Badgers over a host of top programs back in April. At the time - and since then - Oglesby has made it very clear that he was sticking to his original decision.

It didn't matter. One school, Florida State, was still contacting Oglesby until last month, when it finally stopped.
"I just told them I was 150 percent with my decision," Oglesby said.

Ironically, the team that recruited Oglesby the hardest after he made his verbal commitment was Wisconsin.

"They still recruited me as if they were still trying to get me, and I told them, 'Don't exhaust your resources on me, because I'm coming and that's that," Oglesby said. "I'm like, 'Be sure we have a great class coming in.'

"But I'd still get mail from them all the time. And every time I'd go over there, they'd still roll out the red carpet, stuff like that."

Two signing days?

For a guy like Oglesby, who has been sure of his decision for over 10 months, today's signing day couldn't come soon enough.

"I would have loved to sign on the dotted line the day I told Coach Bielema I was coming," Oglesby said.

For years, there has been talk about adding an earlier signing day in college football. The additional date would give those athletes who have made up their mind the chance to officially end the recruiting process, thus stopping the constant barrage of sales pitches from other coaches.

"I've been here 12 years, and that comes up almost annually," the AFCA's Bell said of the proposal for an earlier signing day. "The problem is, there's no real consensus on whether we should have one or not. And then, even among the people who are in favor of it, there's no consensus among that group when it should be."

Bell said dates in August, October and December have been tossed around, with the latter choice being the most popular.
Alvarez said he'd be in favor of a Dec. 1 date, citing cost containment as the major factor.

"If we get a commitment from a kid in the summer, our (coaches) are going to be there every week," said Alvarez, referring to the six-week stretch following the season where coaches can make in-home visits to prospects. "Because if you're not there every week, if you don't treat them like he hasn't committed, then somebody else is going to move in there and give him more attention."

Opponents of an early signing day could point to a player like Gilreath, who was still committed to Minnesota on Dec. 1 and may have felt pressured to sign with the Gophers at that point. In that case, Gilreath would have eliminated UW, the program where he eventually decided he'd feel most comfortable.

"The whole recruiting period gives you a lot of time to think and evaluate everything," said Gilreath, who along with Sorensen received an intense sales pitch in recent weeks from the new coaching staff at Minnesota. "I guess that's why they give you all this time instead of a couple months.

"I could have committed to Minnesota and found out later I made a bad decision. They gave me all this time to think and go over a lot of things, and I feel like I made the right decision."

So does Sorensen, who may have spoken for hundreds of his counterparts around the country when he described his feelings on the eve of signing day.

"It's been long and pretty stressful at times," he said. "It's good to finally get it over with."

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:08 pm
by Cicero
I agree Killian. It has gotten out of hand fast. Negative recruiting stinks and some schools do it a lot worse than others. Pimp your school but don't fill some 18 year-old kid's head w/ lies just so you can get him to sign w/ your school. The Terrance Tolliver issue comes to mind.

He was down to LSU and UF.

Negative Recruiting

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:23 pm
by TheJON
Every recruiting season that passes I get more and more sickened with college athletics. Whatever happened to class and integrity over winning??? I had wondered how a school like Illannoy could be landing this type of class, but Zook doesn't seem like the cheater type to me. He's a fucking shitty football coach and a complete douchebag, but I just can't see him cheating. He has a lot of integrity and everyone talks about what an honest guy he is. But seriously......how the fuck is he getting these guys? Illinois is right smack dab in the middle of a goddamn cow pasture. They play in a crappy stadium, the campus isn't anything to see, and the facililities are rather shitty by Big-10 standards. On top of all of that, they've finished at the bottom or near the bottom of the Big-10 for most of the last 10 years. I've always said coaches are responsible for their program and if things are going on behind the scenes they are responsible. So if a player is taking gifts/cash from a booster/friend of the program then the coach is just as responsible in my mind. However, this would be the exception to that rule. Zook is a fucking dolt. The guy is the dumbest coach I've ever seen. You could have an assistant coach fork over an open suitcase of cash to a player right in front of the Zooker and he wouldn't even know what just happened. If Zook recruited a kid from the ghetto and that kid started showing up to practice in an SUV wearing gold chains (hey Illini fan, this has never happened at your school, right?? RIIIIIIIIIIIGGGGHTTTT!!!!) he wouldn't even think twice about it. In fact, he wouldn't even think once about it because thinking actually requires having some sort of brain capacity and Zook clearly does not possess that.

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:25 pm
by MuchoBulls
TheJON wrote:Every recruiting season that passes I get more and more sickened with college athletics.
While I agree with where you were going, it's also sickening how large the egos of these kids become during the recruiting process.

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:32 pm
by Killian
TheJON wrote:Zook doesn't seem like the cheater type to me. He's a fucking shitty football coach and a complete douchebag, but I just can't see him cheating. He has a lot of integrity and everyone talks about what an honest guy he is. But seriously......how the fuck is he getting these guys?
Zook has zero integrity. His tactis are dirty, as are his coaches.

How did he get these players? I'll give you a hint:

Benn: Don't be surprised to see his brother in an IL uniform in two years. Is he currently a sophomore? Nope. He'll be out of jail in two years. And he's never played football.

Martez Wilson: Bagman.

Those two I know for sure, not sure about anyone else.

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:34 pm
by TheJON
I blame the media/internet for those egos. We're talking about 17 year old kids. If I was 17 and the country was jerking off to me, I'd probably have a big ego too. How many humble 17 year olds have you ever met?

By the way, Mucho, McCarney now an assistant at USF. Good hire for them. Got anymore Hawkeyes you want to hire!? And I saw that Kareem McKenzie (ILB) transferred to USF from Iowa State. Good pickup for them. He had a good year last year on a bad defense. Good tackler and good speed.

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:17 pm
by T REX
Cicero wrote:I agree Killian. It has gotten out of hand fast. Negative recruiting stinks and some schools do it a lot worse than others. Pimp your school but don't fill some 18 year-old kid's head w/ lies just so you can get him to sign w/ your school. The Terrance Tolliver issue comes to mind.

He was down to LSU and UF.

Negative Recruiting
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that UF is a better school academically than LSU. Academic smack? I thought I was going to read something actually underhanded.

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:21 pm
by Killian
T REX wrote:
Cicero wrote:I agree Killian. It has gotten out of hand fast. Negative recruiting stinks and some schools do it a lot worse than others. Pimp your school but don't fill some 18 year-old kid's head w/ lies just so you can get him to sign w/ your school. The Terrance Tolliver issue comes to mind.

He was down to LSU and UF.

Negative Recruiting
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that UF is a better school academically than LSU. Academic smack? I thought I was going to read something actually underhanded.
That's not a long limb to go out on. And I don't consider coaches pointing out horrible graduation rates as negative recruiting.

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:24 pm
by MuchoBulls
TheJON wrote:I blame the media/internet for those egos. We're talking about 17 year old kids. If I was 17 and the country was jerking off to me, I'd probably have a big ego too. How many humble 17 year olds have you ever met?

By the way, Mucho, McCarney now an assistant at USF. Good hire for them. Got anymore Hawkeyes you want to hire!? And I saw that Kareem McKenzie (ILB) transferred to USF from Iowa State. Good pickup for them. He had a good year last year on a bad defense. Good tackler and good speed.
Certainly agree with you about the media/internet creating the egos of these kids.

I'm very happy about the McCarney hire. I hope he sticks around here for a while. He would probably take over as the D Coordinator if he stays here a couple of years since Burnham has hinted at retiring in the next couple of years.

McKenzie is seeking a hardship waiver, so if we were to have him ready in 2007 he would fill one of the holes left by the graduation of Nicholas and St. Louis. McKenzie does look like he's a good player and he would be a perfect fit for our D.

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:27 pm
by T REX
Killian wrote:
T REX wrote:
Cicero wrote:I agree Killian. It has gotten out of hand fast. Negative recruiting stinks and some schools do it a lot worse than others. Pimp your school but don't fill some 18 year-old kid's head w/ lies just so you can get him to sign w/ your school. The Terrance Tolliver issue comes to mind.

He was down to LSU and UF.

Negative Recruiting
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that UF is a better school academically than LSU. Academic smack? I thought I was going to read something actually underhanded.
That's not a long limb to go out on. And I don't consider coaches pointing out horrible graduation rates as negative recruiting.
Thanks twice in one day. I will be the first to question Urban or his methods. I know all coaches recruit and use different tactics but asking about academics? Are you kidding me?

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:42 pm
by Cicero
Killian wrote:
T REX wrote:
Cicero wrote:I agree Killian. It has gotten out of hand fast. Negative recruiting stinks and some schools do it a lot worse than others. Pimp your school but don't fill some 18 year-old kid's head w/ lies just so you can get him to sign w/ your school. The Terrance Tolliver issue comes to mind.

He was down to LSU and UF.

Negative Recruiting
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that UF is a better school academically than LSU. Academic smack? I thought I was going to read something actually underhanded.
That's not a long limb to go out on. And I don't consider coaches pointing out horrible graduation rates as negative recruiting.
Well I do. Hype up your school. It's up the athlete to graduate.

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:43 pm
by TheJON
McKenzie is seeking a hardship waiver? Based on what? From my understanding, he transferred because he didn't like Gene Chizik. I don't think you can get a waiver because of that. I know he started his career at Michigan State and lost a year as a transfer, so maybe the NCAA would let him play in 2007 because of that.

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 7:01 pm
by Killian
Cicero wrote:
Killian wrote:
T REX wrote: I'm going to go out on a limb and say that UF is a better school academically than LSU. Academic smack? I thought I was going to read something actually underhanded.
That's not a long limb to go out on. And I don't consider coaches pointing out horrible graduation rates as negative recruiting.
Well I do. Hype up your school. It's up the athlete to graduate.
I guess it's semantics, but I don't think a coach pulling out graduation rates to compare with theirs is negative recruiting. Nor is telling a WR that you had a top 10 offense and compare it to other schools.

The shit I don't like is the outright lies (if you go to ND, you have to go to church 7 days a week, they don't offer minority support, etc.) and when schools tell kids to not be above board with a school they are committed to. The last one though, that falls on the kid as much as it does the coach of the school recruiting them.

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 7:18 pm
by Cicero
^^

That's bullshit if other schools are telling ND recruits that.

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 7:24 pm
by Killian
Telling them what? The church thing? A lot of schools do that and have for years. The minority support thing? A huge bullet used when Julius Jones flunked out and they fired Willingham.

It's the same thing with FSU. They will use Bobby against himself and recruits until he retires.

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 7:46 pm
by 420
First off, I'd like to state that this writer is a complete idiot!

Washington is in the U&L... and has nothing to do with this story! Fuckin' east coast twits!!!

Feel free to type the oh so strenuous D.C. next time, idiot!




The New York Times
nytimes.com

February 7, 2007

Illinois Has Rivals Fuming About Its Recruiting Coup

By PETE THAMEL and THAYER EVANS


Guenther also said he and Illinois coaches were convinced that another university’s coaching staff had leaked unflattering personal information about recruits to a Web site. He would not name the Web site or the university, other than to say it was not a Big Ten program.

Gee, I wonder what school that would be??? :giant eyerolls:

I'd even bet sissyroo could figure that one out.


Marvin Austin, a defensive tackle from Washington considered among the best at his position, visited Illinois but has since narrowed his list to North Carolina and Florida State.

Austin said numerous recruits from the Washington area had taken an interest in Illinois because of Locksley. Austin said that the Illini had done a good job of recruiting in urban areas and that recruits were realizing they could go to less successful programs, where they could earn playing time early and more exposure.

“People are scared of what they don’t understand,” Austin said. “And I don’t think they understand why kids are going to Illinois.”


Sounds about right... Zook is a strong recruiter. Look at the talent Meyer used at Florida this year. Pretty much every contributor in the NC game (with the exception of Harvin) was a Zook recruit.





When the Word Isn't Quite Final

By Alan Goldenbach
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, February 7, 2007; E01

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 7:51 pm
by MuchoBulls
TheJON wrote:McKenzie is seeking a hardship waiver? Based on what?
His mother is ill

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 7:52 pm
by Killian
420 wrote:
Guenther also said he and Illinois coaches were convinced that another university’s coaching staff had leaked unflattering personal information about recruits to a Web site. He would not name the Web site or the university, other than to say it was not a Big Ten program.

Gee, I wonder what school that would be??? :giant eyerolls:

I'd even bet sissyroo could figure that one out.
Actually, it was Michigan. But Illinois knew it wasn't smart to point the finger at one of the Big 2 so they passed it off on ND. 3 schools from the Big 10 sent letters to Jim Delaney questioning the tactics used by Zook.

And I don't know if the writer is an idiot or it's the fact that it's the NY Times and they don't usually have articles about recruiting, and may not realize that Benn is from DC, not the state of Washington.

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:05 pm
by 420
Killian wrote:
And I don't know if the writer is an idiot or it's the fact that it's the NY Times and they don't usually have articles about recruiting, and may not realize that Benn is from DC, not the state of Washington.
Ohhhhh, you can be assured he's a fuckin' idiot!

He talks about Benn, then mentions Maryland twice in the same paragraph.

The writers an idiot.

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:50 pm
by Adelpiero
this has been happening every year for decades.

some schools whine,cry, and pout(notre dame) and other programs just play the negativity as a positive to recruits.They roll with the punches.


christ, noone makes up more shit about programs, especially when they have trouble, than KU(basketball) and Nebraska(football).

Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 12:59 am
by SoCalTrjn
Killian wrote:
TheJON wrote:Zook doesn't seem like the cheater type to me. He's a fucking shitty football coach and a complete douchebag, but I just can't see him cheating. He has a lot of integrity and everyone talks about what an honest guy he is. But seriously......how the fuck is he getting these guys?
Zook has zero integrity. His tactis are dirty, as are his coaches.

How did he get these players? I'll give you a hint:

Benn: Don't be surprised to see his brother in an IL uniform in two years. Is he currently a sophomore? Nope. He'll be out of jail in two years. And he's never played football.

Martez Wilson: Bagman.

Those two I know for sure, not sure about anyone else.
Funny coming from a Cheesesteak charlie supporter



Here is an excerpt from a Washington Post article about Aurelious Benn's recruitment:

Throughout his junior school year, Benn said he had considered Notre Dame his top choice, but when he felt as though the Fighting Irish coaching staff was putting too much pressure on him to commit he stopped considering the school. Once Benn orally committed to Illinois, Notre Dame assistant Peter Vaas continued to pepper Benn with text messages and voice mails, some of which Benn provided to The Post:

"FYI, ILL is telling Robert Hughes that they will build their offense around him? Didn't they tell you that?

Coach Vaas,"
Vaas wrote Benn on Dec. 17.

Earlier that month, Vaas left this voice message on Benn's phone: "You don't want to do anything except bury your head in the sand. . . . I guess you're not tough enough to compete at the big level."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01649.html

Glass houses...

Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:05 am
by Vito Corleone
Killian wrote:
TheJON wrote:Zook doesn't seem like the cheater type to me. He's a fucking shitty football coach and a complete douchebag, but I just can't see him cheating. He has a lot of integrity and everyone talks about what an honest guy he is. But seriously......how the fuck is he getting these guys?
Zook has zero integrity. His tactis are dirty, as are his coaches.

How did he get these players? I'll give you a hint:

Benn: Don't be surprised to see his brother in an IL uniform in two years. Is he currently a sophomore? Nope. He'll be out of jail in two years. And he's never played football.

Martez Wilson: Bagman.

Those two I know for sure, not sure about anyone else.
Jarvis Moss chose Florida over Texas because his GF got a scholarship there as well.
John Brantley switched commitment from Texas after they offer his GF a full ride Scholarship.

I don't know if it is dirty but if Florida recruiting were a plate, I wouldn't eat off it.

Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:59 am
by T REX
Uhhhhh....they live in OCALA, which is a hop, skip, and a jump from G-ville. ALSO, she got a Tennis schollie FIRST. I'm sure vittles you've never heard of the Gator tennis program being one the best in the nation year in and year out. Every article I could find said Brantley FOLLOWED her there......

What's with you people?

Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:17 pm
by Terry in Crapchester
Killian wrote:The shit I don't like is the outright lies (if you go to ND, you have to go to church 7 days a week, . . .)
It's a little hard for me to envision someone falling for that one. Then again, we are talking about 17-18 year old kids. Some of them aren't worldly enough (although they think they are) to realize that someone might lie to them to advance their own self-interest. And many of them certainly have very little understanding of how a Catholic school operates.

I'm told that was once a requirement at ND, but it predates even me.

Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:38 pm
by Killian
SoCalTrjn wrote: Funny coming from a Cheesesteak charlie supporter



Here is an excerpt from a Washington Post article about Aurelious Benn's recruitment:

Throughout his junior school year, Benn said he had considered Notre Dame his top choice, but when he felt as though the Fighting Irish coaching staff was putting too much pressure on him to commit he stopped considering the school. Once Benn orally committed to Illinois, Notre Dame assistant Peter Vaas continued to pepper Benn with text messages and voice mails, some of which Benn provided to The Post:

"FYI, ILL is telling Robert Hughes that they will build their offense around him? Didn't they tell you that?

Coach Vaas,"
Vaas wrote Benn on Dec. 17.

Earlier that month, Vaas left this voice message on Benn's phone: "You don't want to do anything except bury your head in the sand. . . . I guess you're not tough enough to compete at the big level."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01649.html

Glass houses...
Listen douche pump, first learn to spell the kids name correctly, seeing as how it's in the fucking story. Second, Vaas was let go after the bowl game because he fucked up Benn's commitment and then wouldn't leave him alone.

This isn't a glass house case you fucking idiot. Tell me one time in the past three recruiting cycles where ND/Weis was even rumored to come close to an NCAA violation. Poodle Pete thinks he has something on Charlie, but he doesn't have shit.

Try harder to actually add something to this board.

Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:42 pm
by Killian
Terry in Crapchester wrote:
Killian wrote:The shit I don't like is the outright lies (if you go to ND, you have to go to church 7 days a week, . . .)
It's a little hard for me to envision someone falling for that one. Then again, we are talking about 17-18 year old kids. Some of them aren't worldly enough (although they think they are) to realize that someone might lie to them to advance their own self-interest. And many of them certainly have very little understanding of how a Catholic school operates.

I'm told that was once a requirement at ND, but it predates even me.
You'd be surprised how they use ND's catholic affiliation against them. Almost worked with Ryan Harris when a few schools told him that they wouldn't be open to a muslim on campus and would actually try to convice him to convert to catholicism.

Oh and Adelpiero, you're right. All ND did was whine, cry and pout. They didn't sign a better class than IL and take their top RB target away from them at the last minute. Great call.