Page 1 of 1
RIAA sues college students
Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 6:11 pm
by Mister Bushice
Yep, When I wanted a lot of money, a college student was always the first person I'd ask.
Where are these A holes getting the names and IP addresses from? There are so many providers and download programs out there, I wonder which ones the RIAAts have managed to coerce into giving up the names?
RIAA tells students: Pay up for downloads
Fri Mar 9, 7:02 AM ET
ATHENS, Ohio - The music industry is asking 50 Ohio University students to pay $3,000 each to avoid lawsuits accusing them of pirating songs off the Internet.
ADVERTISEMENT
The
Recording Industry Association of America asked the university to pass along letters to the students with Internet addresses accused of being involved with the illegal sharing of copyrighted music. The university notified the students on Monday.
"The downloading has occurred and we can't change that, but we can let them know what their options are," OU spokeswoman Sally Linder said Wednesday.
Patrick McGee, a local attorney the university arranged to meet with students, said $3,000 is the standard offer though cases have settled for as much as $5,000. He has represented four Ohio University students in file-sharing lawsuits.
Jenni Engebretsen, spokeswoman for the trade group, based in Washington, D.C., would not disclose or confirm what the standard settlement offer is. She did say no cases have gone to trial yet across the country.
As part of its ongoing copyright crackdown, the association has already sued about 18,000 computer users nationwide since September 2003. The figure includes 1,062 computer users at 130 universities.
The association said last month that it intended to sue more students and others on campuses in the next three months than it has in the past three years and that it would send 400 letters a month to computer users suspected of copyright infringement.
Letters were sent to 13 universities last week, giving students 20 days to pay a settlement.
A letter to one Ohio University student told her that she distributed 787 audio files, putting her total minimum potential liability at more than $590,000. The minimum damages under the law is $750 for each copyright recording that had been shared, the letter said.
Many students cannot even afford the $3,000, McGee said.
"I think the record company is smart enough to know that a lot of students do not have the money," he said. "They can't actually take them up on the offer."
Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 6:25 pm
by OCmike
I know that they originally went after Napster users by subpoenaing Napster records. Maybe they went the same route with some of the newer file distribution programs.
College students don't have the cash, but many are still considered dependents of the parents. I'm sure this is a ploy to get the parents to pony up the $$.
Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 6:34 pm
by Mister Bushice
Kazaa is also one of the ones they've got. Apparently the owner of Kazaa caved big time in the face of major fines and lawsuits.
Of the 18,000 or so lawsuits out there, only about a quarter of them have settled for some cash. Some people are fighting, and there are still over 60 million on line downloaders and growing.
and the RIAA still rakes in record profits worldwide.
As for the parents, it could probably be endlessly argued the parents are not liable, given the circumstances of the kids being away from home, over 18, and using the schools internet access.
Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 6:37 pm
by velocet
Among the metalheads I was ever around, Metallica was the gold standard of all metal. (btw- For some, that distinction belonged to Priest; when I heard that the singer is a 'Mo I had a hearty laugh imagining the reaction of the folks I knew)
Anyway, which of the members of Metallica was most responsible for the band turning into net-nannies and, in the process, making their legacy a mouldering pile of shit?
My guess: the drummer.
velocet
Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 6:42 pm
by Mister Bushice
Actually, the metallica thing was primarily aimed at the people who stole and distributed via napster their as yet unreleased album.
It was Lars Ulrich who was the bands spokesman on it and he did a piss poor job of it, too. Came across like a whiny bitch out to get users, but it was more anger at having their album stolen.
Their music is still being dl'ed but they aren't bitching anymore.
I was in their no cal studio a few months back, and in one of the storage rooms they had a Black T shirt that had "FUCK NAPSTER" Printed on it. :)
Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 6:47 pm
by Mikey
OCmike wrote:I know that they originally went after Napster users by subpoenaing Napster records. Maybe they went the same route with some of the newer file distribution programs.
College students don't have the cash, but many are still considered dependents of the parents. I'm sure this is a ploy to get the parents to pony up the $$.
I think it's more of a ploy to scare them into not downloading any more pirated files.
Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 6:49 pm
by Mister Bushice
Mikey,
Looks like Wolfgangs vault is heading for legal trouble, too:
http://p2pnet.net/story/11574
Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 6:52 pm
by Sky
1800 * $3000 = $54M
About half to the lawyers and the RIAA is taking home about $27M. Is that really worth alienating 1800 people plus their near and dear?
Has the RIAA tracked down any bt users yet?
Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:01 pm
by velocet
Thanks mr. b. Ulrich is the drummer, right? HA, whatta guess.
I remember back in the day imo reading the conversations of smackchatters discussing their fun on those file swapping things. Tunes were never important enough to me to even bother checking napster out. Nowadays I have Rhapsody and it is fuggin awesome dude.
I remember Madonna got all upset by the file sharing and from that kind of $$$ fixated piece-a-shit I could understand the rage. Metallica though... I dunno it was just counter-intuitive the way they represented.
Their image and schtick (and most of metal, I think) was something about rebellion etc if I remember right.
Anyway, I don't mind paying for tunes 'cause before file sharing I did (occasional dubbing, we all did that) and the stuff I like anyway isn't done by megamillionaires in the first place so yeah they HAVE to get something.
velocet
Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:01 pm
by Mister Bushice
Not from what I've read. BT is not a centralized server like napster was. Also, it looks like a group called P2P United, a peer-to-peer industry trade group that includes Grokster, StreamCast Networks, LimeWire and other file-trading software companies are fighting the RIAA.
There are a lot of options out there, always will be. The RIAA is stupid to think more lawsuits will solve anything.
Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:04 pm
by Tom In VA
I don't understand your point Bushice. Is your point that RIAA is silly going after people with no money ?
Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:37 pm
by Mister Bushice
Just the whole idea that litigation is an answer to a problem of this type. These people tried to get a court appointed guardian put in place so they could sue a 13 year old girl. The reason? To "set an example" for others.
It's stupid, it's a waste of time, money, the court system, and in the end accomplishes nothing. There are hundreds of millions of songs traded everyday. legally and illegally. Suing a handful of college students is a piss in the ocean, and only alienates the RIAA from the very generation that makes them rich.
I don't believe in mass thieving of songs for personal profit, but if DLing a song makes me a fan of the band I might be more inclined to listen to the radio station that plays their stuff, or go to a show, or buy the gear, or buy the album off itunes. All that benefits the industry and, more importantly, the musicians. The CD makes money for the RIAA. A very small percentage of the CD goes to the artists, and the cost to produce the CD vs the price charged is absurd.
Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:49 pm
by OCmike
Mister Bushice wrote:
I don't believe in mass thieving of songs for personal profit, but if DLing a song makes me a fan of the band I might be more inclined to listen to the radio station that plays their stuff, or go to a show, or buy the gear, or buy the album off itunes. All that benefits the industry and, more importantly, the musicians. The CD makes money for the RIAA. A very small percentage of the CD goes to the artists, and the cost to produce the CD vs the price charged is absurd.
The effect of the internet and file-sharing is something that the RIAA doesn't and probably never will get. Rather than pointing to it as the culprit for the decline in album sales, they should look to the retarded $18.00 asking price for piss-poor quality music. Most albums nowadays have 1 or 2 good songs MAX. Rather than charging in the neighborhood of $20 for this mess, they should look at putting out a better product for a more reasonable price...but they won't.
Another aspect of the file-sharing angle that they're missing is that many people (such as myself) used fs networks to get rare live recordings, good covers by favorite bands, or a few individual songs that I liked. In none of those case would I have bought the album. None of those downloads takes $$ out of their pockets, but still keeps the user interested in the musical groups. Stupid, stupid, stupid.
I used to use Napster back when it first came out and did so for several years. When they started suing users, I stopped, both because it wasn't worth getting sued and because the quality of about 50% of the stuff that I'd download wasn't good enough. Many songs were either missing parts of the beginning or end or just weren't of the best quality. I now use iTunes when I want to purchase and individual song.
Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 8:53 pm
by TenTallBen
Mister Bushice wrote:It was Lars Ulrich who was the bands spokesman on it and he did a piss poor job of it, too. Came across like a whiny bitch out to get users, but it was more anger at having their album stolen.
Rack the campchaos cartoons they did back in 2000 ripping on those sellouts.
NAPSTER BAD!
http://www.campchaos.com/blog-archives/ ... r_bad.html
http://www.campchaos.com/blog-archives/ ... icops.html
Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:31 pm
by ElTaco
Its not very hard to find out who you are, especially when there are BS laws that work for the 'industry'. Most people get on their computers and go download songs. So if you are the 'industry', all you have to do is set up some sites and nab IP addresses of people who connect to you to download songs or get on the service and nab IP addresses as you connect to servers. Alternatively, they can try to get the information out of the companies who run the system. I mean honestly, finding 10,000 people who are doing this and not doing anything to protect themselves is nothing compared to the millions out there who get on these services.
Also don't forget that universities are an easy target. Lots of kids. You can get on there and look for shared folders or scan for people who have the P2P programs going. Most universities don't protect their networks nearly as much from scans vs companies and ISPs. Not to mention that a while back the RIAA sued some universities to get them to allow these idiots to have access to the networks to find people sharing music. Once you have an IP address, all you have to do is go online, find out who owns it and send them a letter requesting it to be delivered to the owner of that IP address.
Basically, if you are on a univerisity network and you are still sharing a ton of music locally or on one of these services on your own computer, you are an idiot and you just painted a huge bulls eye on your back.
Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 1:57 pm
by PSUFAN
These are preemptive shots sent out to kids in the hopes that 1) the headlines and 2) the reactions will do the bulk of the work for them.
Yes, universities are easier targets than commercial ISPs. Universities don't have the resources dedicated to protecting their network users from egregious lawsuits, because they are trying to use their money on education.
ISPs must strive to protect their users more, because that gets to the very nature of their business.
As for Lars Ulrich...if he spent half the energy he did slamming filesharing on slamming the record company executives for maintaining absurdly unfair conditions for 99.999% of their artists, then he'd be getting somewhere. But, he happens to be one of the few artists who has been able to hammer out a little bargaining power with his overlords. Much of that would depend on selling CDs, though...thus his yelping.
Ulrich = pussy.
This link seems pertinent here:
http://negativland.com/albini.html
Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:57 pm
by Mister Bushice
EXACTLY, PSU.
That linkoutlines clearly why the RIAA members are going after file sharers, as that is where they get their billions. It isn't at all about the artists, because the artists (unless they're well established and can make a better deal for themselves) don't get shit from the sale of the music CDs. The average artist gets popular with good product and ears to hear it.
A classic example of that attached file is the rap group TLC (you might remember dead Lisa "Left eye" Lopes who burned down Andre Risons mansion) :)
They were the top female Groups of the 90's, and one of the biggest selling of all time, and yet at the end of the 90's they were personally broke. They sold over 15 million CDs, yet they had nothing to show for it in the bank.
This same shit happened in the 80's when cassette tapes started bleeding profits, so they came up with overpriced CDs.
I hope this all comes down to bite them in the ass hard. Not only are they intent on pumping out as much shit music as they can, they still expect people to over pay for it.
Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 6:44 pm
by Diego in Seattle
OCmike wrote:Mister Bushice wrote:
I don't believe in mass thieving of songs for personal profit, but if DLing a song makes me a fan of the band I might be more inclined to listen to the radio station that plays their stuff, or go to a show, or buy the gear, or buy the album off itunes. All that benefits the industry and, more importantly, the musicians. The CD makes money for the RIAA. A very small percentage of the CD goes to the artists, and the cost to produce the CD vs the price charged is absurd.
The effect of the internet and file-sharing is something that the RIAA doesn't and probably never will get. Rather than pointing to it as the culprit for the decline in album sales, they should look to the retarded $18.00 asking price for piss-poor quality music. Most albums nowadays have 1 or 2 good songs MAX. Rather than charging in the neighborhood of $20 for this mess, they should look at putting out a better product for a more reasonable price...but they won't.
Rack.
And who the fuck do they think they are lecturing about "stealing" when they've been doing exactly that for decades from both artists & the public?
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:40 pm
by PSUFAN
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:01 pm
by Mister Bushice
RACK the UoW.
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 1:51 pm
by PSUFAN
Rack this judge!
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20 ... ngelo.html
BTW, a troll has been posting this around the internet, pretty funny stuff (If you can read, that is)...
I know you hate the RIAA. But they help us too. For instance, I own a record store, and my business faces ruin. CD sales have dropped through the floor. People aren't buying half as many CDs as they did just a year ago. Revenue is down and costs are up. My store has survived for years, but I now face the prospect of bankruptcy. Every day I ask myself why this is happening.
I bought the store about 12 years ago. It was one of those boutique record stores that sell obscure, independent releases that no-one listens to, not even the people that buy them. I decided that to grow the business I'd need to aim for a different demographic, the family market. My store specialised in family music - stuff that the whole family could listen to. I don't sell sick stuff like Marilyn Manson or cop-killer rap, and I'm proud to have one of the most extensive Christian rock sections that I know of.
The business strategy worked. People flocked to my store, knowing that they (and their children) could safely purchase records without profanity or violent lyrics. Over the years I expanded the business and took on more clean-cut and friendly employees. It took hard work and long hours but I had achieved my dream - owning a profitable business that I had built with my own hands, from the ground up. But now, this dream is turning into a nightmare.
Every day, fewer and fewer customers enter my store to buy fewer and fewer CDs. Why is no one buying CDs? Are people not interested in music? Do people prefer to watch TV, see films, read books? I don't know. But there is one, inescapable truth - Internet piracy is mostly to blame. The statistics speak for themselves - one in three discs world wide is a pirate. On The Internet, you can find and download hundreds of dollars worth of music in just minutes. It has the potential to destroy the music industry, from artists, to record companies to stores like my own. Before you point to the supposed "economic downturn", I'll note that the book store just across from my store is doing great business. Unlike CDs, it's harder to copy books over The Internet.
A week ago, an unpleasant experience with pirates gave me an idea. In my store, I overheard a teenage patron talking to his friend.
"Dude, I'm going to put this CD on the Internet right away."
"Yeah, dude, that's really lete [sic], you'll get lots of respect."
I was fuming. So they were out to destroy the record industry from right under my nose? Fat chance. When they came to the counter to make their purchase, I grabbed the little shit by his shirt. "So...you're going to copy this to your friends over The Internet, punk?" I asked him in my best Clint Eastwood/Dirty Harry voice.
"Uh y-yeh." He mumbled, shocked.
"That's it. What's your name? You're blacklisted. Now take yourself and your little bitch friend out of my store - and don't come back." I barked. Cravenly, they complied and scampered off.
So that's my idea - a national blacklist of pirates. If somebody cannot obey the basic rules of society, then they should be excluded from society. If pirates want to steal from the music industry, then the music industry should exclude them. It's that simple. One strike, and you're out - no reputable record store will allow you to buy another CD. If the pirates can't buy the CDS to begin with, then they won't be able to copy them over The Internet, will they? It's no different to doctors blacklisting drug dealers from buying prescription medicine.
I have just written a letter to the RIAA outlining my proposal. Suing pirates one by one isn't going far enough. Not to mention pirates use the fact that they're being sued to unfairly portray themselves as victims. A national register of pirates would make the problem far easier to deal with. People would be encouraged to give the names of suspected pirates to a hotline, similar to TIPS. Once we know the size of the problem, the police and other law enforcement agencies will be forced to take piracy seriously. They have fought the War on Drugs with skill, so why not the War on Piracy?
This evening, my daughters asked me. "Why do the other kids laugh at us?"
I wanted to tell them the truth - it's because they wear old clothes and have cheap haircuts. I can't afford anything better for them right now.
"It's because they are idiots, kids", I told them. "Don't listen to them."
When the kids went to bed, my wife asked me, "Will we be able to keep the house, David?"
I just shook my head, and tried to hold back the tears. "I don't know, Jenny. I don't know."
When my girls ask me questions like that, I feel like my heart is being wrenched out of my chest. But knowing that I'm doing the best I can to save my family and my business is some consolation.
Some people are offended by my blacklist system. I may have made my store less popular for pirates and sympathisers, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make to save my industry from destruction. I am inspired by artists such as Metallica that have taken a stand against the powerful pirate lobby. When everyone believes 2 + 2 = 5, to simply state the truth, that 2 + 2 = 4, is a courageous act.
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:35 pm
by PSUFAN
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:11 pm
by Dinsdale
You know...I think that anyone who ain't smart enough to figure out how to get a group together and share a FTP server probably deserves to have their money taken from them.
That's how me-and-mine have been doing it for years. And no one will ever know.
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:57 pm
by Donovan
PSUFAN wrote:BTW, a troll has been posting this around the internet, pretty funny stuff (If you can read, that is)...
I wish I could say I was amazed how ignorant that record store owner is. From not knowing how easy it is to trade books online (it's very easy, it's just not done often because people still prefer paper books), to using [sic] on a spoken word, he just makes himself look stupid. I won't even get into how much "skill" the war on drugs is being fought with.
The guy deserves to be bankrupt, along with anyone else unwilling to do business in the new digital economy. Fortunately the big labels are starting to get it. EMI is allowing iTunes to sell their music
without DRM and at better quality than previously available. Let's hope the others follow suit, although I'll probably stick with other services, like emusic, which cater to indie labels.
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:14 pm
by Dinsdale
OK, I'll see if I can help --
Donovan wrote:PSUFAN wrote:BTW, a troll has been posting this around the internet, pretty funny stuff (If you can read, that is)...
I wish I could say I was amazed how ignorant that record store owner is. From not knowing how easy it is to trade books online (it's very easy, it's just not done often because people still prefer paper books), to using [sic] on a spoken word, he just makes himself look stupid. I won't even get into how much "skill" the war on drugs is being fought with.
The guy deserves to be bankrupt, along with anyone else unwilling to do business in the new digital economy. Fortunately the big labels are starting to get it. EMI is allowing iTunes to sell their music
without DRM and at better quality than previously available. Let's hope the others follow suit, although I'll probably stick with other services, like emusic, which cater to indie labels.
I guess no one has ever accused you of having a particularly sharp wit.
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:23 pm
by Donovan
Thanks, Dins. I blames the ephedrine.
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:41 pm
by Dinsdale
You Upper Mexicans still get ephedrine?
You best go back and edit that out, since if word gets out, the residents of Vancouver, WA will be heading your way in droves...
On second thought, you shouldn't edit that out at all. I'm going to print out this thread and spread it on a lawn in Spuncouver, and watch it turn pink.
Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 12:28 am
by Donovan
Dinsdale wrote:You Upper Mexicans still get ephedrine?
I think it's been replaced with pseudoephedrine here as well, but I have to be in really bad shape before I'll take cold medication so I'm no expert. Either way, I'm really out of it (more than usual).
Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 2:38 am
by PSUFAN
I'm just happy you're here, Norte.