T1B

By "you guys" I am referring to those of you with programs who perenially make runs in the tourney. As an Aggie, I am used to not having a good basketball program. I've not been "spoiled' so to speak with great teams year in and year out. Last year LSU broke our hearts, but I was just happy to be in the tourney last year. I didn't think we were destined to win it. This year was different. I really expected us to win it, at least be in the final game.

After the game last night, I just sat there on the couch with my head in my hands. I was in complete denial. I kept saying to myself "It can't be over. This can't be it." That's what I don't see how some fans can, year in and year out, lose heartbreakers like these. I guess if you win just one championship, that will be enough to hang your hat on.

I do think we will be back next year. DeAndre Jordan is the real deal. Sloan has big shoes to fill. He''s not the ball handler Law is, but he is more athletic. Maybe that will be enough.

Gig'em.

think Jordan will follow Gillespie to Kentucky?

Wait until you really get surprised by a team like I don't know, let's say:

UTEP
Rhode Island
Bucknell
Bradley
Virginia
and others


You'll get used to it!

IndyFrisco wrote:I guess if you win just one championship, that will be enough to hang your hat on.

IndyFrisco gets it.

Sin,
1939

Mook wrote:Wait until you really get surprised by a team like I don't know, let's say:

UTEP
Rhode Island
Bucknell
Bradley
Virginia
and others


You'll get used to it!

Arizona in '97 was more devastating than all of those losses combined.

Besides a team has to get fairly lucky to win the whole thing. I still maintain that the '88 Kansas team was one of the five worst KU teams of the last 25 years, and they won the title. Weird.

Any given year there are 6-10 teams with a legitimate shot to win and only one can. Take this year for example. I think real cases could have been made for Ohio St, Florida, UNC, Kansas, UCLA, Wisconsin, aTm and maybe Memphis and Oregon to win the whole thing. So all except one team will be left with their dicks in their hands. It's not so bad as long as you're realistic about what constitutes a successful season. Frankly as good as teams are I believe that the Sweet Sixteen is a nice result for any team. Going beyond that means you have had an excellent year. Some may differ but that is what I believe.

And truly, even for really top programs they are lucky to have one of those truly special teams even once a decade. By special I mean a team that arguably "should" be in the Final Four and win a title. Since I've been paying attention Kansas has had those teams in 1985, 1997 and in my opinoin 2007. '85 and '97 didn't win. We'll see how this year turns out. Notice I didn't include several Final Four teams and numerous #1 seeds in that mix. Not because they weren't good, but because they were missing something that really made you think they were better than just about everybody.

Anyway, it's a fun time of year and it's always fun to be involved. And the upsets to the Bucknell's and Bradley's are what make this tourney so much fun. Even though it sucks when it happens to your team.

Indy,

I'd much rather feel the way you did last night than to be sitting at home the way USF has for the past 15 years.

I still to this day cringe when I hear any mention of Cleveland State or Richmond Spiders. I still to this day ponder the "what ifs" had Ted Valentine not taken his anti-Knight feelings out on the Hoosiers in the FF. Ditto the "what ifs" on Sherron Wilkerson's broken leg in the 94 tourney. Or Alan Henderson's knee in the 93 tourney.

That said, I still remember to this day where I was and what I was doing in 87 when IU pulled off the miracle against Dale Brown and LSU. I still remember in the 91/92 season carrying around in my wallet a blurb from the Washington Post after IU had been throttled by UCLA early in the year, and then the sheer joy I felt when in the Elite 8 IU got revenge by beating the absolute fuckpiss out of the Bruins.

And I'll say that after the final 4 years of the RMK era and the 6 years of the Davis error I long for the days of good seeds and tourney runs that go beyond the first weekend. But like Mook said, luck plays a factor in winning it all so even having a team that's capable of winning it all guarantees nothing and likely ensures some heartache. Glad to know I'll be getting back to those types of teams and feelings soon enough.

SAMPSON GETS ME LIFTED

Shine wrote:I still to this day cringe when I hear any mention of Cleveland State or Richmond Spiders.

The Cleveland State game was on ESPN Classic last week.

Hard to believe Dan Bonner has been a complete waste of airtime for 20+ years.

WAR Mouse McFadden

Shine, I agree with you on one point, only 10+ years ago...

Sampson GOT me lifted. (Not like, actually. That's probably be an NCAA violation or something. But I got lifted to watch a LOT of his games...:D)

The most painful basketball loss of my lifetime, at least so far, I feel trumps all of yours... 1988. OU vs. Danny Manningsas. The 3-0 series lead wasn't enough. (You feelin' me, Tejas football?)

The second most painful came at the hands of Shine's beloved Indiana in 2003. They played a great game, and I'm not taking anything away from them...

(Do I really need to say the word? I mean, most of you have already formed it without scrolling down...)

BUT

...I felt like the officiating in that game didn't let us play our game; a physical, but clean, game. When we were agressive, it was a problem, but, because Indiana wasn't seen as an aggressive team, their aggression was "allowed." And maybe that was Mike Davis' gameplan... (I'll pause for a second while everybody catches their breath because I said "Mike Davis" and "gameplan" in the same sentence...)

to take us out of our game, but I doubt it. I think that, if we'd have been allowed to play our game, we'd have won the National Championship that year. We'd already beaten that Maryland team once...

So yeah, having to watch our team play like someone else's team for 40 minutes was pretty shitty too.

the_ouskull

Just for the sake of accuracy, IU beat OU in the 02 Final Four.

And while I don't doubt for one second your anguish at the 88 Danny and the Miracles it is merely equal to my 92 "Burn in Hell Ted Valentine" game pain/memories.

the_ouskull wrote:The most painful basketball loss of my lifetime, at least so far, I feel trumps all of yours... 1988. OU vs. Danny Manningsas. The 3-0 series lead wasn't enough. (You feelin' me, Tejas football?)

I still maintain that the '88 Kansas team was one of the five worst KU teams of the last 25 years, and they won the title.



This game and the effect it had on Skull and myself (as the quotes so readily illustrate) defines the NCAA Tourney and the opposite ends of the spectrum fans of any given team can feel year in and year out.

1988 is my most painful sports loss. Manning could have shot players in the head and there was no way he was going to foul out of that game.

a close second is the 85 Waymon Tisdale/CHoo Kennedy/Tim McCallister/David Johnson loss to Dana Kirk's Memphis State criminals with Keith Lee in the round of 8. Both of whom are or at one time in jail, IIRC.

for some reason, Kelvin's loss to Indy State still bugs me to all hell. Nolan Johnson was one made front end from putting that one away.

King Crimson wrote:a close second is the 85 Waymon Tisdale/CHoo Kennedy/Tim McCallister/David Johnson loss to Dana Kirk's Memphis State criminals with Keith Lee in the round of 8. Both of whom are or at one time in jail, IIRC.

Kirk got one year in federal prison for obstruction of justice and income tax evasion. I did a quick search of the internets and couldn't find anything to suggest Lee had done prison time, but considering that he was a college stud, he definitely had a lousy NBA career.

Since we're talking about heartbreaking losses, #1 for me all-time is still Danny Ainge driving the length of the floor and putting up the buzzer beater against us in the Sweet 16 round of 1981. A close second is the first-round loss to Arkansas-Little Rock in '86 when we had pulled a 3 seed, but that was just more shocking than anything else. Number 3 would be the loss to North Carolina in the second round in '85 when, after David Rivers got past Kenny Smith and in position to get us the game winner, the refs failed to call a kicked ball on Joe Wolf, and we lost on a turnover.

tyus edney

northern iowa


several debacles by Norm Stewart, with teams that were tourney ready, several had high seeds and flopped.

Terry in Crapchester wrote:

King Crimson wrote:a close second is the 85 Waymon Tisdale/CHoo Kennedy/Tim McCallister/David Johnson loss to Dana Kirk's Memphis State criminals with Keith Lee in the round of 8. Both of whom are or at one time in jail, IIRC.

Kirk got one year in federal prison for obstruction of justice and income tax evasion. I did a quick search of the internets and couldn't find anything to suggest Lee had done prison time, but considering that he was a college stud, he definitely had a lousy NBA career.

.

maybe i was wrong about Lee. he was a tremendous scholar-athlete though i'm sure. and had a wicked geri-curl.

IndyFrisco wrote:After the game last night, I just sat there on the couch with my head in my hands. I was in complete denial. I kept saying to myself "It can't be over. This can't be it." That's what I don't see how some fans can, year in and year out, lose heartbreakers like these. I guess if you win just one championship, that will be enough to hang your hat on.

When I lived in Lawrence ('89-'99), I saw more than my fair share of this, among many friends and folks who worked and went to school at KU. And no, one championship won't do it.

Big 12 Fan feels Aggie Fan's pain. I know there were a ton of KU and OU fans pulling for aTm. And yesterday was a fucking TOUGH loss, bro. Any fan, if their team went down in that close of a game involving high seeds, would feel the same.

Shine wrote:Just for the sake of accuracy, IU beat OU in the 02 Final Four.

Oh. Cool. I was pretty, uh... Sampsoned during that whole time frame... :D

the_ouskull

King Crimson wrote:maybe i was wrong about Lee. he was a tremendous scholar-athlete though i'm sure. and had a wicked geri-curl.

No doubt.

And now that you mention it, I remember reading an expose on academic issues confronting those Memphis State teams while I was in college. ND has a basketball tournament called the Bookstore Basketball Tournament, open to anyone affiliated with the school (i.e., student/faculty/employee) who wants to play and gets a team together. The team names were often pretty clever, and sometimes a little risque. I remember my senior year (the year after their Final Four team) naming my team after Memphis State's academic woes. Every year the school newspaper did an article about the best team names in the Bookstore Basketball Tournament. That name made the article that year.

Also, IIRC, the reason they dropped "State" from their school name was an effort to dissociate the school from the Kirk/Lee era.

Indy-
It's fun, isn't it? I've been going through it for about 30 years now with a pretty decent team that's usually in the mix. When they get deep into the tournament and lose in a close game, it really rips your heart out and takes a couple of days to get over. And I have several of those to choose from. Hmmm.....2004 comes to mind.....Duke playing out of their ass and leading UConn by about 8 with two minutes left and Luol Deng decides, sure...why not throw up a couple of 3 pointers? Clang.....loss. Ouch. Or 1994, I think it was Scottie Thurman hits a bomb with time running down for the Hogs to go ahead and Chris Collins comes back for Duke and launches a prayer from about 30' with plenty of time left on the clock. Clang...loss. I could go on. 1986.......1999....even 1978, when I got my first taste of elation/agony.

After a while, just getting to the Final Four isn't enough. And that's kind of an unfair standard to hold your team to. But that's what it's come to. Next to the Stanley Cup, this might be the toughest trophy in team sports to win. Everything has to go right and like mook said, you have to have a bit of luck. I've said it many times, but look at all those awesome teams Carolina had that didn't win it all. Injuries, matchup problems, poor shooting nights, etc....there are so many things that can derail your team and leave you with jack squat.

When Texas got to the Final Four in 2003, I was so stoked. I couldn't believe that we made it. To watch that team was a gift. Then we met Carmelo. That sucked. But you never forget the feeling. In 2000 I had some really good friends that went to UNC and the regional was in Austin. We got tickets and hit the games. UNC made it to the final four and these guys were all teary eyed. I was in awe. They told me to wait unti lTexas gets there and you will understand. They were right. That is what made last year so tough. We were an OT away from the Final Four.

Anyways......here's to Durant staying and the 3 incoming freshman that are all over 6'8. We got outrebounded like a mofo all year.

speaking of Keith Lee, that region had Tisdale/Karl Malone in the Sweet 16 and then Tisdale/Lee in the regional final. pretty stout group of college post players for one region.

Since we're taking a trip down memory lane . . .

These days, it's a major accomplishment for ND to make a bowl game played on or after New Year's Day and qualify for the NCAA tournament in the same academic year. We pulled that feat off this year for the first time since '00 and only the second time since '90. Thing is, I'm old enough to remember when that wasn't the case.

Being born in 1964, I began following sports in the early 1970's. The 70's were a great time to be a ND fan. Two national championships in football and a Final Four appearance in basketball. ND ended UCLA's still-record 88-game winning streak in '74, and became that year the first school ever to be ranked #1 in both football and basketball in the same academic year. In '77-'78, we won a national championship in football and reached the Final Four in basketball, I believe (could be wrong about this) that we were the first school ever to pull that off in the same academic year.

The 70's were the glory days of ND basketball, what with Austin Carr (second-leading all-time career PPG's, behind only Pistol Pete), Adrian Dantley, John Shumate, Gary Brokaw, Dwight Clay, etc. It was also the last decade-long glory days period of ND football (you could call the period from '88-93 a glory days period of ND football, but it would be a HUGE stretch to call the entire decade of either the '80's or '90's the same).

With respect to basketball, our lone Final Four team started three freshmen and a sophomore (Tripucka, Jackson, Woolridge and Hanzlik, respectively). So I was expecting plenty more where that came from. Alas, it was not to be. And like I said, Danny Ainge stuck a dagger in me that still hasn't healed more than a quarter century later.

Damn, I'm pissed just typing this. I want ND sports back where they used to be in the 70's. :brad: