T1B

Mods, go ahead and move this to the poli forum if it's too boring.
I'd put it in our LAW forum, but we have a thong barf forum instead.

Or maybe we need a C&P forum for Bobby, Paul, Cuda, Derron and myself to play in.
Think it over.

ty & i luv u ..... you always do what's right.


[web]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17874261/?GT1=9145[/web]


Myself, I think the teacher deserves a medal.
Or the Nobel Peace Prize.
Or cunnilingus.
Or at least a lovely parting gift.

I'm hot for teacher.


Your take .... ?

Outside of the pissing match between the teacher's and school board's attorneys, this story does not get to the crux of the issue.

The amount will be reduced on appeal, Btw. Bank on it.

Btw, aren't these the type of "frivolous lawsuits" you right-wingers despise so much?

Or is that only when it comes to doctors or corporations?

Notice I didn't say she should receive ..... $$$.

Yeah, the amount is absurd.
I don't like it.

But I don't see this as a 'frivolous' lawsuit.
She had a legit beef.

poptart wrote:She had a legit beef.

The story doesn't say why she gave Ds and Fs to most of the class.

And here we go,

Original story

Payne taught English at the St. Francisville school until she resigned in 2005. Court documents indicate she was known for her unique teaching methods — including asking students to dress in togas to study Shakespeare and starting a Renaissance Festival.

RACK her.

Sin,

m2

It's still true that we don't know nearly enough facts about the case.

We do know that the jury found that she was damaged.
So I'm assuming they determined that she wasn't just being a total hard-ass.

I think the educational system has gone so far into 'passing the kids through' that REAL learning and student accountability has been greatly diminished.

So on that basis, I salute her.

poptart wrote:I think the educational system has gone so far into 'passing the kids through' that REAL learning and student accountability has been greatly diminished.

So on that basis, I salute her.

I see ya workin', and if that's the case, I couldn't agree more.

However, I wouldn't exactly call dressing in togas and holding Ren Fests as "high standards." Sounds more to me like she had her own standards. Hey, if she wanted to immerse the kids in the "realism" of certain English lessons, I guess that's OK. But giving Ds and Fs to 70 percent of the class? I wonder what the exact circumstances were on that and her other methods.

Fine line between high standards/tough love and ego/power trip, on this one, imo, pop.

'Course I am bit biased when it comes to the power of teachers in public schools. Had a bad experience with a seventh-grade art teacher in Texas.

I'm thinking the teacher is a wierdo, and 90% of the kids probably wanted to poison her.
Teachers will pull off this 'creative' learning crap and pass if off as trying to make things interesting ....... to capture the kids' attention.
Yeah, yeah ......
Truth is they are usually trying to fulfill some bizarre fetish of their own.

I'm also betting this teacher was already not liked by her principal or other administrators.
But she had tenure and there was not a hell of a lot they could do about her.

So I hate to throw my support behind a Ren Fest loving wierdo, but I like the idea of jag-off kids getting slapped with Ds and Fs.


I didn't know art is allowed in Tejas .... ?

Is it ... ?

I have a feeling it would be if MtLR tought it. :wink:

poptart wrote:I like the idea of jag-off kids getting slapped with Ds and Fs.

Exactly!! Fuck them. Hey, wait a minute ...

Sin,

poptart wrote: Your take .... ?

What did you expect?

sin,

The "No Child Left Behind" law.


Some children in some schools will ALWAYS be left behind, unless the teachers grade on a smaller Bell.

Either that, or the school gets punished as a whole for failing to meet mandates.

education standards set for political gains is a train, heading for a "bridge out"

Nah, Bushice. The teacher and/or her pissing match with the school board, is most likely the culprit, in this case.

not from the schools POV. All of the other classes the students excelled in except hers, and she was pressured to lower grades?

Smells like NCLB to me. Either that or Teen Spirit.

Why would she be pressured to lower grades under NCLB?

If anything, teachers would want to keep them high, depending on state standards. Here, grades don't have shit to do with NCLB. It's test scores. And ONLY test scores.

Grades are derived from Tests. Her tests are harder, meaning lower scores.

plus:

No Child Left Behind requires states to create an accountability system of assessments, graduation rates, and other indicators. Schools have to make adequate yearly progress (AYP), as determined by the state, by raising the achievement levels of subgroups of students such as African Americans, Latinos, low-income students, and special education students to a state-determined level of proficiency.

Each state determines appropriate levels of proficiency for its students. If a single group within a school fails to reach proficiency, the entire school is considered to have fallen short.

and:

the overwhelming focus on standardized testing as the means of assessment encourages "teaching to the test". That is, teachers are encouraged to teach a narrow subset of skills that will increase test performance rather than focus on deeper understanding.

In addition, because each state can produce its own standardized tests, states could compensate for inadequate education programs by making the standardized tests easy enough that their results are on par with those from other states with average or above average education programs.

I ain't making this shit up. :)

Probably not, but it may or may not have shit to do with this thread. :wink:

What the hell. I enjoyed myself. :)

I'm curious as to the precise reasons why she gave 70% of the kids D's and F's. Does her course place a huge weight on writing assignments, which the students either don't do or don't do well? Does she assign frequent, rigorous homework, which (once again) the kids either don't do or don't do well? Or does she place an inordinate amount of weight on "class participation" and is using the low grades to force kids to jump into her play-acting methods?

If the latter, I'd have a problem with her grading system, but I think (hope?) that the jury would not have ruled in her favor if that were the case.

Speaking from the experience of my own district, I know that our English and social studies teachers are pulling out their hair trying to get kids to truly READ literature and to write (using proper spelling, grammar, essay construction, analysis). Many of the students can pass or even do well in the sciences and math courses without having to write well, let alone with depth - the courses focus primarily on processes, computation, memorization, etc. The humanities courses, OTOH, force the kids to have to read and analyze, using higher-order processing. Most of the kids CAN do it but refuse to because...it requires work.

Teenagers on average are frigging lazy as hell and not willing to do their own work. They try every damned way they can to avoid reading the assigned material, try to scam their way out of writing original papers (so much so that many teachers require electronic versions of assignments so we can electronically check for plagiarism), text message each other during tests/quizzes to "share" answers, divvy up homework assignments (Bob does the odd questions, Bill the even ones, and they share their efforts), and they steal crap off of Wikipedia all the time. The irony is that their cheating usually winds up costing them MORE effort than if they had actually done the assignment honestly and well on their own. Not a semester goes by that I don't nail two or three kids for this crap, and what truly galls me is that the kids honestly try to argue that it's totally OK. They have little or no grasp of their dishonesty being a problem.

And, in my experience, the problem is FAR greater in the so-called "honors" kids. These pampered, coddled kids have been immersed in their "special" status for so long that they and their parents assume that the teacher is infallible as long as their offspring continue to get (padded) A's, but go after the teacher with a vengeance -often claiming a personal vendetta or incompetence on the teacher's part- when their little prince/princess gets a low grade. I know for a fact that there are a hell of a lot of parents who scream for a teacher's head if their little darling suddenly stops getting unearned A's or gets a referral for behavioral issues/cheating. School board members can often be the worst examples of this when THEIR kids are treated like every other student. We get leaned on BIG TIME by parents (I had one who called me at home at 7:30 in the morning on a Saturday to bitch). Thank God my principal trusts my judgement and backs me.

As far as this particular case, I don't have enough info to say one way or the other, but since 'tart tossed it out there, my first impression is that the teacher may have been one of the few to not inflate grades and "play the game." I disagree with the size of the $$$ judgement, however. It'll hopefully be reduced.

Thank God my principal trusts my judgement and backs me.

Must be nice !! All too many of the "administrators" I worked with over the years were quick to toss the teacher to the lions if it meant making them look good.
I used to set traps to catch cheaters too. Keep up the good work !

Wolfman wrote:Thank God my principal trusts my judgement and backs me.

Must be nice !! All too many of the "administrators" I worked with over the years were quick to toss the teacher to the lions if it meant making them look good.

A friend of mine, our former chem teacher. got thrown to the lions by the superintendent this past year. The chem teacher was strict and tough and once the "honeymoon" period with the honors juniors was over and the kids saw that she expected them to do high-quality work (and independently), the kids went after her. She was willing to give up her lunch periods, stayed after school, came in early, etc. to give the kids help (and some of the kids took her up on it and succeeded), but the bulk of the spoiled honors kids (who were also all cheerleaders) rebelled and started feeding complaints to mommy and daddy, who then leaned on our principal. The principal backed the teacher, who had 2 1/2 years of stellar evaluations in our district and another 3 from a private school prior to coming to us.

Well, one kid concocted a story about the chem teacher "gossiping" about her to another student. Complained to mom, who then insisted on a meeting with the teacher and an administrator. At the meeting, the mom demanded that the chem teacher apologize to her daughter publicly. The chem teacher refused, since the kid made the story up. The mom took umbrage at her daughter being called a liar, the tension escalated, and the chem teacher left the meeting, refusing to continue the debate. Dumb move on her part.

Mom stormed down to the superintendent's office and demanded that the teacher be shitcanned. Mom also happened to be the wife of a local conservative talk show host and wields considerable local political clout on her own. Superintendent was a new hire to the district and had never been a superintendent before. She was obviously under some serious pressure in her new role.

Chem teacher, who was untenured (had 6 months to go) got shitcanned the next day. Untenured teachers can be dismissed without cause.

Not a damned thing that the principal, the union, the students, or the parents who loved the chem teacher could do. She was escorted out of the building, only being allowed to return to collect her stuff after students were dismissed. The "official story" that the principal was forced to spew was that the chem teacher "resigned on her own due to health concerns."

The student who started the whole thing, btw, proceeded to brag to the other kids about how she and her cheerleader buds got "another" teacher fired. They'd apparently done this years ago under another superintendent. The older siblings of these kids also went after the earth science/physics teacher years ago, making false claims of sexual harassment. He was lucky and, after a lengthy investigation in which his name was dragged publicly through the mud, exonerated.

The days of 'To Sir, With Love" are over.

WOW---
watch your behind Mike--- I doubt if I have to tell you things like:
keep the classroom door open and sit near it when you have a student alone with you (especially a female)
etc. etc.
however---
do not back down from the standards you have set--
you will gain the respect of the kids and solidify your
position as a respected teacher !
BTW--are you anywhere near tenure ?? I have lost
track of time.

Wolfman wrote:WOW---
watch your behind Mike--- I doubt if I have to tell you things like:
keep the classroom door open and sit near it when you have a student alone with you (especially a female)
etc. etc.
however---
do not back down from the standards you have set--
you will gain the respect of the kids and solidify your
position as a respected teacher !
BTW--are you anywhere near tenure ?? I have lost
track of time.

Tenured two years ago. I breathed a HUGE sigh of relief when the school board sent me the letter.

I also dig the fact that I teach a course required by NYS (you can't graduate from a NY high school without taking biology -or as it's known now, Living Environment) and am the only bio teacher. Toss in the AP bio I started teaching last year and my infectious disease elective, which has a waiting list due to the number of kids signed up, and I'm feeling pretty good. Oh, and my direct supervisor, the high school principal is a phenomenal boss - great leader, makes tough decisions when he has to, is fair, and supports his people. Despite all this, I'm not cocky,....I know how to watch my back, be careful what I say and to whom, avoid being SEEN with malcontents and "rebel" teachers.

Concur with not backing down from the standards. I've successfully forced kids (and parents) to adhere to my policies, and fortunately the kids have succeeded, often exceeding their parents' expectations (THAT part is one of the highlights of this career). I've also successfully fought off attempts by holy rollers to go after my teaching evolution in both bio and AP bio. For added measure, I advised the class that successfully campaigned to bring back the district's "Blue Devil" mascot. That demonic face is now plastered all over the school. Makes me frigging laugh - the holy rollers tried banning the mascot to "save" the kids, and instead the battle wound up giving the kids and sane members of the community a rallying point and school pride. The new superintendent digs that I had a visible role in that. But like I said....I'm always watching my back.