T1B

I open up Portland's local rag and the big story on page one is, "Get in Line for Gridlock," which is a story about the future grand opening of an Ikea store on july 25th.

Ikea article in OregonLive

The newspaper article is a little different than the link but it says they expect 150,000 people. The new store is situated out toward Portland International Airport and they warn travellers to expect delays on the freeway. They also said the store will hire out 40 Portland cops at the cost of $120,000 to direct traffic to and from the store.

WTF?

Someone explain to me why this is going to be such a big deal, as isn't an allen wrench the main tool to put the supposedly "cheap" furniture together? I'm not a big fan of modular furniture or the "limited assembly required" shit. Typically after a few years, I use the assembled stuff for firewood or stands for garage sales in our cul de sack.

The article said that seven years ago in NoCal a store opening caused a two week gridlock. Hell, in 1995 it said three people were stampeded to death at an Ikea opening in Saudia Arabia.

Anybody own any of this Scandinavian furniture and is it worth a crap?

Rip City

Luther wrote:I open up Portland's local rag and the big story on page one is, "Get in Line for Gridlock," which is a story about the future grand opening of an Ikea store on july 25th.

Ikea article in OregonLive

The newspaper article is a little different than the link but it says they expect 150,000 people. The new store is situated out toward Portland International Airport and they warn travellers to expect delays on the freeway. They also said the store will hire out 40 Portland cops at the cost of $120,000 to direct traffic to and from the store.

WTF?

They're paying for it, and not expecting the city to pay for it? Count your blessings.

Particle board furniture is the suck.

IKEA has good prices on some things. Expect to be dragged to the store by the wife, and to leave clutching a plastic cutting board or a pepper-grinder named BALTOK or something.

I have been to the one in Mass and it is cool. Everything is so cheap but actually decent quality. Putting it together sucks but it seems pretty sturdy. Doesn't feel cheap.

Don't get roped into the Swedish Meatball cafateria food they serve. That was crap.

Once the store has been open for a couple months the crowds die down. The first two months are sheer insanity though....

Luther wrote:The new store is situated out toward Portland International Airport

Why of course. Being right by the bridge, it makes it easily accessable to the Vancouverites.


And particle board crap is a huuuuuge step up from milk crates and cable spools.

Luth, we were in Portland last month and drove by the IKEA site. I swear to God my wifey got moist at the site. I'll probably be keeping the Boise to Portland Southwest flight running forever now.

Damn IKEA and women who spend 110% of what they make at that freaking store.

Oh, fuck...an Idahoan.

Next time you're in Portland, do us a huge fucking favor, and just take a cab everywhere.


Or at least pretend like you've been on a highway that has more than one lane each direction before.


As Oregonians(rated the best drivers in the country-btw), we kinda get the shaft from tourists. The Calis are legendary for their shit driving. And despite the californians' poor reputation as drivers, the can't hold a candle to the highway abomination that is Washingtonian(you actually have to special-order turn signals on a car in Warshington, and I believe they have a law against using them for lane changes if your speed is above 75MPH and traffic is heavy).


And then, there's the I-Duh-Hos.


Yes, Mr Potatohead, there are a lot of cars on the road. But driving through rush hour at 15MPH to avoid the imminent collision really doesn't help. In fact, it does the opposyite of "help," since we want to stop, get out of our cars, and fucking kill you people.

And it's not some isolated examples --it's every last fucking one of you.

Fuck, I can only imaging how you people drive when you crack age 70.


If you listen to the radio during rush hour 'round these parts, they'll break into a song that's playing with the Emergency Broadcast System---


BEEEEEEEEEEEEP!

This is the Oregon Department of Trasportation. At 5:15PM Pacific Daylight Time, ODOT recieved reports of a red, white, and blue striped license plate travelling on I-5 south near the Terwilliger Curves. Motorists in this area are warned to be extremely cautious, and ODOT recommends resticting your travel in the area to only emergencies.

This is not a test.


Fucking scary-assed son's-a-bitches.


Nice enough folks... just stay the fuck off our freeways if you can't act like you've driven on one before.


But, if it makes you feel better, Idahos -- it's the middle of summer. Which means Idaho drivers get knocked down a few spots on the ODOT Least Wanted List... because summer is the season of the British Columbians. By the hundreds of thousands. I guess they like to drive far enough south to where they can go to the beach and have the temperature break 60 degrees or something. But THOSE stupid, stupid fuckers will stop in the middle of the fucking fast lane to do their sightseeing.

So, I suppose by comaprison, it does get worse than Warshingtonians(learn to pronounce the name of your state-btw...there ain't no fucking "R" in "Washington"... alphabet out front should have told you) and Idahos.


Matter of fact, we could solve some financial problems in this state by selling hunting tags to allow the bagging of 12 canadians a year, btween the months of June and September. It generates revenue for the state, and it would make the roads safer for everyone(everyone not from canada, anyway).


Win/Freaking win.

Oregonians are the best drivers? HAHAHAHAHA. I don't care where you reference it, where you got it, or what you believe, but that is total horseshit. Would I buy that Oregonians are the "nicest" drivers in the world? Yeah, I'd give you that. Just because I spent a couple of hours behind a cruiser for a few decades doesn't make me an expert, but I'd have to say there isn't one cop in the metro area that would agree with that statement.

You ever been on the Sunset highway, the Banfield, I-5 and especially I205 when a guy has pulled over into the grassy area off the freeway (probably 50 feet from the road) during rush hour. People slam on their brakes and pretty soon you've got a backup all the way from Sunnyside Rd. all the way up to Vancouver...just to gawk at a guy changing a flat tire.

If you pull that shit down in SoCal you'd get shot by about 300,000 motorists, or by two helicopters hoping to spot some high speed chase. OJ would have capped himself in the back of the Bronco.

Dins, for crissakes, you're one of the best bullshitters this side of the Atlantic but that statement is fucking whack.

Rip City

Come on Luther, who do you expect us to believe when it comes to rating drivers,

a retired cop or an unemployed former deck builder/electrician/wine grape stomper/game show host/male prostitute/drug dealer?

^^^^ VERY unfamiliar with the supreme collection of fuckups known as the Portland Police.


BTW -- I've never worked as a game show host. But OF COURSE, being Dinsdale... I know one.

Anybody got a stop watch for some link to show up regarding accident involvement rates? Hell, when I left we weren't even required to file a police accident report unless people were either arrested, it was a hit and run or the person was classified as a "trauma" case by the ambulance crew. Crash your car, break your leg or your kids arm and it was just an exchange and let the insurance companies deal with it.

Biggest distorted pieces of information out there. Do you know what happens up here if we get an inch of snow? Close the schools down, the roads aren't safe for all these safe Oregon drivers. We might have a couple of months of sun during the summer and the first day it rains most people know that the accumulated build up of oil on the roads will make them slippery. What do Oregonians do? Peddle to the metal baby...soccer moms colliding with school buses, kids crying, but with no injury...but we've got a backup of gawkers from Troutdale to downtown Portland.

Rip City

Here's your link Luther.

http://salem-news.com/articles/june1520 ... 061507.php

And even with your liberal reporting rules, Orgeonians didn't fare very well.

Luther wrote:We might have a couple of months of sun during the summer and the first day it rains most people know that the accumulated build up of oil on the roads will make them slippery. What do Oregonians do? Peddle to the metal baby...

Bull. Fucking. Shit.

See, some of us are actually from here(sup not Luth), and I don't know one Oregonian that does that...not one. And I know a bunch of them... us natives tend to congregate.


The word you're looking for to describe those people is "transplants." It's pretty easy to identify Oregonians when the slick days come -- they're the ones driving reasonably, even the maniacs.

I used to work on cars for a living, and did so in a very "automotive" part of town(the old Canyon Strip). First rainy day of fall, and there wasn't even room to park cars at the body shops. And over 90% of those cars had something in common -- the frame holding the license plate on had the name of a dealership in california.


Peddle that bullshit somewhere else, Luth. Some of us actually know just how full of shit that last attempt was. For fact. It was a running freaking joke amongst the body guys for many, many years, and it wasn't for no reason.


Simmah' down, Luth -- can't you see I'm trying to bait an Idahoan here?

YOU worked or knew somebody that worked in a body shop, somewhere, sometime? Who the fuck do you think got all the calls to these so called fucking intersections? I hated anything to do with traffic enforcement. I'd do my best to get out of writing a ticket or for God forbid actually be forced to investigate an accident. We had a traffic division and if it HAD to be investigated then I'd pray that they would be available.

I've towed more cars from crash sites than you've either driven in, been chauffeured in, or you've seen from that city bus you take. Californians, IMO, drive way better than we do. What they suck at is littering, politeness and patience. You stick some tard from SE Portland or Beaverton and jam his ass on a freeway during rush hour in SoCal and that area will plug up worse than a Rosie O terlit.

Bwahahaha.

Rip City

Um, Dins, check this out:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/AUTOS/05/24/gma ... index.html

Idaho has the country's best drivers according to this recent survey.

No, that survey indicates that Idaho drivers do the best on that particular test. Doesn’t really evaluate what they’re actually doing out there on the road. That survey has Wisconsin as 4th best in the country, which is absolute bullshit. Though as with most things, we’re probably better than Oregon.

Goober McTuber wrote:No, that survey indicates that Idaho drivers do the best on that particular test. Doesn’t really evaluate what they’re actually doing out there on the road. That survey has Wisconsin as 4th best in the country, which is absolute bullshit. Though as with most things, we’re probably better than Oregon.

Well Damn! I just read the headlines anyways.

So it says that Idahoans are smarter than Oregonians? Cool, but we already knew that, I suppose.

Anyways Dins, next time you see one of those dumbfuck Idahoan drivers screwing things up on your precious little freeway system, please let me know if there is a 2C on the plate. Those 2C (Canyon County) drivers are probably the worst in the world when it comes to some common freaking courtesy on the road.

Luther wrote: Californians, IMO, drive way better than we do. What they suck at is littering, politeness and patience. You stick some tard from SE Portland or Beaverton and jam his ass on a freeway during rush hour in SoCal and that area will plug up worse than a Rosie O terlit.

Bwahahaha.

Rip City

Rack that....Was in SoCal early March and my OL just about freaked every time we got on the freeway. I rented a Mustang and drove like a native Cali..fucking fast and hard...now the Calis may be a bit fucked up a few places, but they do now how to drive as a matter of survival.

Averge speed 85 and 100 not unseen at all, in fact I did it several times. Now being an Oregonian, but having been throught several times that famous if mediocore police pursuit course Luths former employers put on helped out a bit, but the Boundurant course was better and nothing says drafting better than the Petty school at Vegas speed way, helps but most Oregonian drivers cant' drive a fucking tricycle in the sunshine.

Then throw in the gooks and dot heads that are driving on the West side and it sucks. When we came back from 5 days in SoCal, we were on the Sunset heading home in my kids 4 x4 and both of us were amazed how slow and idiotic the drivers up here are, and we were one of them...

Then we can talk about the blue hairs, who nearly put Derron in his grave last week in a parking lot.

And you have to rack the CA and NV cops on accident invesitgation. Paint a couple of lines where the tires an dbodies are, push cars / drag bodies over to side of the road and open her back up pronto. Not in Oregon.. no fucking sir.. we got to get the entire CART team out if we even think there is a problem. Close that fucking road for 6 to 8 hours during rush hour.. fuck all the commuters, we got a fuckin job to do.

Then we can talk about the blue hairs, who nearly put Derron in his grave last week in a parking lot.

RACK the old coots, stepping up where Chucky D is struggling so mightily!

PSUFAN wrote:

Then we can talk about the blue hairs, who nearly put Derron in his grave last week in a parking lot.

RACK the old coots, stepping up where Chucky D is struggling so mightily!

Yeah .. not the way I want to go out... thrown over the truck lid of a Buick flying backwards out of a parking spot...and I was on the far side of the lane too..but then again.. D ain't got a chance for me PUSSUCKER.. got to many chance for your ilk..

Mikey wrote:Come on Luther, who do you expect us to believe when it comes to rating drivers,

a retired cop or an unemployed former deck builder/electrician/wine grape stomper/game show host/male prostitute/drug dealer?

:choke: don't do that, man.

Dinsdale wrote:^^^^ VERY unfamiliar with the supreme collection of fuckups known as the Portland Police.

BTW -- I've never worked as a game show host. But OF COURSE, being Dinsdale... I know one.

...... but... you have engaged in activities which prevent you from donating blood?

D ain't got a chance for me PUSSUCKER.. got to many chance for your ilk..

Really, D - don't say this too loud. The Origin of the Species really isn't complete until you're among the Has-Mouth-Breathed...

Risa wrote:you have engaged in activities which prevent you from donating blood?

News to me.

Luther wrote:I'd do my best to get out of writing a ticket

Umm, please send some U&L cops this way.

Sin,
Ohio

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:
Umm, please send some U&L cops this way.

Sin,
Ohio

Be careful what you wish for.

Sin,
A roll averaging about one dead civilian per month and by far more bullets-fired per officer than anywhere in the country



They do a good job of keeping unarmed mentally ill people off the streets, though.


Then, there was that time a few years back(quite a few by now) when some crazy dude was holding a knife to the throat of a 12 year old boy. Bear in mind, I said "knife," not "gun." Portland Popo used their usual techniques in that situation -- they "protected and served" the kid by having about 10 cops unload their Glocks in the general direction, ventilating the kid much worse than the perp.

Because that is how they roll.


The public outrage at their conduct is chilling things out lately, though.

I'm sure the boy would have wound up on welfare anyways, so its a good thing they took care of him early to save you some tax dollars.

Easily during the last year or so before I retired, I let everyone know that I didn't want to spend one second in traffic court after I retired. At that time my commander was a "bean counter" type of boss who wanted every little category filled out by his troops. Even though he liked me, I think he wanted me to set some type of example for the younger people. But writing tickets just wasn't ever my bag.

I had a friend who worked down in the stats division and he told me that "warning citations" count just the same as a moving violation ticket. I asked him if I could write a warning ticket for a parking violation and have it count. He said, "Yep." Bwhahahhaa.

So with a month to go I went out and wrote 100 parking ticket warnings and didn't even leave them on the windshields of cars. You know, the typical parking ticket in a residential neighborhood that people get; Over a foot from the curb, wrong side of the street, expired registration, oversized vehicle on the street etc. I'd drive slowly down the street and fill out the warning and in a few cases people would come up and say, "You writing me a parking ticket?" I'd tell them no, that it was just a warning, no fine, no appearance. I got smiles, a couple of cookies, and one lady said, "You come around here next month and it is my birthday. We are having a BBQ and you're invited." I told her I was going to be retired in less than a month and she teared up and said, "Ok, well, God Bless." I turned in the stack of warnings (I did them all in one day) on the desk and said, "I'm done, now leave me alone."

Bean counters kind of are a pain in the ass. I worked a district that was butt full of crankers, theives, burglars, suicidal tards, auto theives, and the ever popular domestic problem makers that a)Love to beat on their wives and, b.)Love to resist and get beat by the po po. The place was known as Tard Town, Felony Flats, Squirrel Heights, whatever. And the bean counter wanted tickets.

When I went and gave away my "pinch book" (leather pouch that held tickets and shit) to some new kid, the kid's training officer opened it up and bust up laughing. "Shit Luth, you got tickets so old that they've all turned yellow...plus, one book of tickets is still with the pre-printed date of 19__."

Rip City

Actually, I think they kid was terminally ill at the time, so it was no big loss(cops didn't know that at the time).

Luther wrote:So with a month to go I went out and wrote 100 parking ticket warnings and didn't even leave them on the windshields of cars. You know, the typical parking ticket in a residential neighborhood that people get; Over a foot from the curb, wrong side of the street, expired registration, oversized vehicle on the street etc. I'd drive slowly down the street and fill out the warning and in a few cases people would come up and say, "You writing me a parking ticket?" I'd tell them no, that it was just a warning, no fine, no appearance. I got smiles, a couple of cookies, and one lady said, "You come around here next month and it is my birthday. We are having a BBQ and you're invited." I told her I was going to be retired in less than a month and she teared up and said, "Ok, well, God Bless." I turned in the stack of warnings (I did them all in one day) on the desk and said, "I'm done, now leave me alone."

But did you do it in a rich neighborhood, or a poorer neighborhood?

Risa wrote: But did you do it in a rich neighborhood, or a poorer neighborhood?

It's really going to bum you out to find out the Luth's old patrol neighborhood is approximately 0.00% black, and nearly 100% white dregs of humanity.

Sorry to deflate your latest attempt at racebaiting, troll.

Yeah, Dins, I remember that. I knew all the guys there, plus we all got to know that family pretty well after that. It was a horrible thing that just didn't work out well at all. The asshole had done a burglary or something in the neighborhood and was running from the police. He broke into the families home and took the boy as hostage. At knife point.

It wasn't one of those "talk to the perp over the phone" or "communicate through a door" without seeing anybody. He kept saying he was going to kill him, and one of the cops took the shot. One shot at least was through the window...the asshole face was alongside the kids face. I wasn't there. I could recount 100 heroic stories about some of my cohorts but that wouldn't persuade you would it, Dins?

Guess old Luth fails you too...Mrs. Flynn said I should of basically "John Wayned" my way out of her son with his cocked gun in my face incident. One of us was extremely lucky in that incident and it wasn't her son. You probably remember all those fucking Po Po stories that the Oregonian did...at least every year. I always got glumped into the stories too. We're not talking about a stupid four inch article buried in the back of the Metro Section either...how about a special insert called the Guardian Series or something like that.

Sometimes we fail, Dins.

Rip City

Luther wrote: Sometimes we fail, Dins.

The failure rate is probably much higher when you try and save a kid held at knifepoint by firing 100 handgun rounds in the general direction of the kid, eh?


Yes, accidents do happen, and mistakes do get made. No one is perfect.

What I don't think the Popo ever caught the grasp of is that Average Joe realizes this, but it is/was the COMPLETE AND UTTER lack of accountability the cops had. Never admit a mistake, never apologize to the public -- just tell the public who pays their wages that they're idiots who weren't there and don't know what they're talking about, and they've never done anything wrong in their lives.


Liars are always judged more harshly by history. And the "investigation" process doesn't help. To wit, James Chasse. Crazy dude gets beaten to death in a boot-party in broad daylight on a crowded street with many witnesses. The grand jury hears it, and many, many eyewitnesses tell the exact same story. None of the cops present can get their stort straight, and their accounts vary greatly.

OF COURSE -- no charges, no punishment, and no accountability.

Over and over and over and over.


95% of Portland Police shootings are justified and neceessary. And a 5% margin of error is WAY too high.


"BUT SHE RAN OVER MY TOE!!! SHE DESERVED ONE TO THE BACK OF THE HEAD!!!!!"

Yeah, thats what it was. You got me Todd, figured me out and broke me down.

You're the smartest machinist out there. Dins and his paint bucket and Risa and whatever her racist agenda is for the day made this a great trolling thread. Bwah.

Rip City

Dinsdale wrote:Liars are always judged more harshly by history.

We know Dins...we know.


Sin,

The rest of T1B

Just buy an extra Beer Fridge Luth, Furniture is overrated.

http://www.mentalhealthportland.org/doc ... TO_DIE.pdf

Well, Dins was close I guess. The boy got hit with two shots. The mindset of training is convoluted to say the least. Scenarios after scenarios, hours upon hours, years of it and yet sometimes bad things happen. I can remember we had some "civilian" volunteers who wanted to "see" and go through some of the scenarios one year.

One scenario was the typical family disturbance...wife and husband arguing. Two cops (civilians in this case) are there with those training guns that fire/bang out an innocent type of projectile. Anyway, the couple is arguing and the civilians are trying to calm them down. Then the male half of the argument calmly walks over to this nightstand and says something like, "Let me show you this..." and suddenly he opens the drawer just as the civilians say, "Don't do it." Guy comes out with a gun and POW POW POW POW POW before the civs get a round off. Probably two dead cops/civilians. The whole episode is videotaped and everybody gets to critique it. What should you have done, where should you have stood, should you have handcuffed them both at the start?, should you just handle the family beef with your own guns out?

They do the same scenario again...this time the guy reaches in and comes out with a wallet. POW POW POW POW POW, but this time it is the civs guns going off. Now we got a dead husband at the scene of a family beef with a Penny's wallet in his hand. One civilian puked.

They have these training scenarios all the time...Some are sophisticated active/shooter types of deals where you fire at a video screen and it records where your shots went and the time expended from the time of each round to what is happening on the screen. Pretty intense shit. I'm sure Rack Fu has done the same types of crap. Some have you doing a traffic stop and you're standing just behind the drivers door talking to the guy behind the wheel. You tell him to keep his hands in plain sight and he dives down into the glove box, fast...totally ignoring all the screaming of "STOP, STOP NOW OR YOU'LL BE SHOT"...sometimes he comes out with a license, sometimes he comes out with a Glock. Most of the grand juries will side with the police if the commands are loud and clear. Me? Several times shit like that has happened, made stuff that close...sometimes I dive for cover, sometimes you crush his head/body to the wheel...

I guess it is a really tough gig. I was not so hot with the "terminal" aspect of commands per se. If I shot every tard that stuck his hands in his pockets or ran after committing a felony then I'd have killed several thousand people, easily. You stop a stolen car, you pull your gun. You come across a bloody beef and a guy's holding a Louisville slugger or a knife, you pull your gun. Basically about felonies...and there wasn't many days that I didn't break leather out there. You get a call on a broken out window with a ladder next to it, dark basement...guess what...gun comes out. Some tard steps out from behind a door with a crow bar or a knife or a club, whatever, in his hands and you yell, "Freeze" and he takes a step...all in about.023 seconds...in the dark? Is it POW POW POW and you just saved your life or your partners life or did you just shoot the janitor checking out the situation?

Many people have asked me if I would do it again. I said if it was the early 70's again, then maybe. Would I take the job now? No.

Rip City

p.s. Y2k, haha...yeah. Thanks, a fridge would be nice.

Luther wrote:The mindset of training is convoluted to say the least.

I'd say if you're shooting at a child to save him, the training isn't "convoluted," it's "fucking retarded."


"There was no doubt in their minds" dude was cutting on the kid.


Hmmm... "no doubt in their minds" ... even though it never happened. If you need that translated to English, that means "they made it up."


Dude, they shot at a kid to save him from a knife.

And are you catching on to the disdain for the local cops yet, Luth? The answer is in your own post... you made excuses for them.

Is that "lack of accountability" light coming on yet?

Of fucking course it was a tricky situation. More than likely, someone was going to die. What an outstanding bit of judgement that was used to determine that it should be the kid, as well.


It wasa a MONUMENTAL fuckup. Just horrid decision making.

And how did the cops respond?

An apology to the family AND community?

A request for citizen input on how to avoid such things in the future(you know..."citizens"...the ones writing the paychecks)?

Any sort of acknowledgement of error?

Accountability?


Nope. Not a fucking chance.

Just "yeah, that was a lame deal. Tough to be a cop in that situation." Thanks for that, Sgt. Marcus Allen.


The police around here could do so much better, but I guess it's the quality of individual that takes the job -- it's some huge thing to admit to being human and making a mistake.

And that incident was a massive mistake, showing a deploranble level of incompetance by the officers involved.

Did they fire the proven-incompetant officers?

HELL NO! They shuffled them behind the Blue Wall and made excuses for them, even though they just proved they had no business being police officers.

No accountability is always going to equal no respect in the community. I feel bad for the qualified, hardworking cops out there, which is the majority. The organizations that represent them are absolutely deplorable, and they take away any chance at respect in the community the officers have.


How about "we made a mistake"... just once. It would go a loooong way, and it's not like they haven't had plenty of chances to admit them. They just won't.


Working on skyscapers, if you fuck up, you die. Working as a lawyer and fucking up -- disbarred. Doctors get sued to the point they can no longer carry malpractice insurance.


You fuck up as a cop -- you get a pass. Those who they're allegedly there to "protect and serve" don't get that same luxury at their job(the taxes from which pay cops' wages). THAT'S why the community has no patience for the lack of accountability and the rampant fuckups. And that's what the police just can't seem to understand. Maybe getting a different job for a while would do something for them, so they can learn that the same leeway is nonexistant in every other aspect of life, and maybe they can see through the eyes of the people that pay them.

Dinsdale wrote:I'd say if you're shooting at a child to save him, the training isn't "convoluted," it's "fucking retarded."

No one intentionally shot at the child.

"There was no doubt in their minds" dude was cutting on the kid.Hmmm... "no doubt in their minds" ... even though it never happened. If you need that translated to English, that means "they made it up."

Dins, French had his knife pressing into the kids neck, there wasn't probably a fraction of an ounce of pressure before blood was to be shown. He's not waving the knife around, he's got it pressed up HARD.

Dude, they shot at a kid to save him from a knife.

The kid got shot, but he wasn't intentionally shot at. They meant no harm to the kid, they meant to save his life.

Of fucking course it was a tricky situation. More than likely, someone was going to die. What an outstanding bit of judgement that was used to determine that it should be the kid, as well.

Here is your fucked up reasoning, Dins. No one made a judgement or determination that it should be the kid. To this day I don't know who's weapon was responsible for the shots that killed Nathan. The cops were there to save the kid, shots got fired and they killed the kid. Probably all of them would have easily exchanged that result with their life. Was just wounding French a better move and then have him just sink the knife in because he's suicidal anyway? Maybe, but we'll never know. Had no shots been fired and French garroted Nathan like they did Daniel Perl what would you say then, Dins? Fucking cops didn't do shit, didn't have the balls to take the initiative, didn't try to save the kids life. Fucking cops just watched...it wasn't their life, right Dins? But that comes with the job, the people like you and your feelings that a band of rogue cops just stroll up and kill the kid, target the kid. YOU stated the cops shot at a kid. Big difference between shooting at and getting shot even though the distance between French and the boy was minimal.

It wasa a MONUMENTAL fuckup. Just horrid decision making.

It was indeed a fuckup.

And how did the cops respond? An apology to the family AND community? A request for citizen input on how to avoid such things in the future(you know..."citizens"...the ones writing the paychecks)? Any sort of acknowledgement of error? Accountability?

Yes, all of the above. Personal family meetings, police apologies, specialized training, the Thomas family was involved. Ask them.

No accountability is always going to equal no respect in the community. I feel bad for the qualified, hardworking cops out there, which is the majority. The organizations that represent them are absolutely deplorable, and they take away any chance at respect in the community the officers have.

There was a ton of accountability in the Nathan incident. Maybe attorney's got involved and told everyone to shut up, but when it was all said and done later the responsible parties came together and reached something together.

One thing I do agree with you is that many cops should have been fired over my career for different things. Whether it was for poor judgement, for criminal acts, for lying, whatever. I can list a bunch for you. But unions, state laws on termination, this and that makes it too hard and it makes those of us who try to do the right thing look bad. Remember the cop popping all those rounds off at the guy in/on that bus, and never hit him once. Kind of a blind knowledge of maybe a bunch of houses around, whatever. I thought he should have been fired, and he was. But unions and termination this and that and civil hearings and he got his job back. Much like people in other jobs. The fucked up termination system.

Rip City

So, Portland cops are much like KC cops... and cops everywhere. Cold blooded, murderous thugs with a license to kill, who then get a pass because they wear a badge, and it's just another ho hum day at the office. What's for dinner tonite, hon? Did you take the dog to the vet?

:bigshocker: it is not. Afterall, they're just doing a job 'protecting' the community, right?

Luther wrote:[q

The kid got shot, but he wasn't intentionally shot at. They meant no harm to the kid, they meant to save his life.


No one made a judgement or determination that it should be the kid.

I beg to differ.

By gross incompetance, they did indeed make that judgement.

It was a knife. The report you linked indicated there were several officers on scene. OBVIOUSLY a bum-rush would have been sound judgement in that situation, and it's an abomination that it wasn't what was done.

And no, I'm not a "it's always the cops fault" guy -- quite the contrary, as mentioned earlier. Most of those shootings aren't just justified, they're a public service.

Now, if dude was holding a GUN to the kid's head, and there was no rifle available on that short notice, then ONE cop would want to go for a headshot to save the kid's life. Another OBVIOUS judgement call. But it was a knife -- what bit of Einsteinesque reasoning leads one to believe that when "another ounce of pressure" is going to start cutting carotids and whatnot, then even if you did take him down with a shot/shots that that pressure wouldn't have netted the same outcome?

Common fucking sense.

Is it tough to make such judgements in the blink of an eye?

Fuck yeah it is. And that's what we pay them for, and offer up all that "convoluted training" at taxpayer expense.

And in the case of those officers, when it came down to brass tacks, that training was all for naught. They fucked up. Period. Buh-Freking-Bye. Never to be employed as a cop again, since their judgement can't be trusted.

Unfair?

Probably.

Right?

Definitely. It's the job they signed up for, and it's a service the taxpayers pay them for. If they prove an inability to not perform at a high level, then to hell with them.

To reiterate -- I believe the overwhelming majority of Portland Police(and I've grown pretty familiar with their act over the years, unfortunately, by my own hand) do a great job. I'm guessing you did too. But the protection afforded to the ones who don't absolutely destroy the credibility of the entire department, which you somewhat alluded to.

And that's one incedent. There was of course the dumb bitch who forgot that whole "Constitution" thing she was sworn to uphold, and decided she knew better. Hearsay from a neighbor without affidavit suddenly became "probable cause"(could have sworn this is covered in the Bill of Rights) to start breaking people's doors down without warrants.

You know what I'm talking about, Luth.

One less rogue cop to worry about... paid for her crime with her life. I'm sad for those she left behind, but she broke the law.

BTW -- sweet coverup the Popo pulled by killing that guy in the hospital. Couldn't feed himself, pee, or sit up in bed under his own power for days. First time he was left unsupervised for a few minutes, he magically hanged himself in a way that's logistically impossible. I think ther official report went something like "suicide, because we said so." And when his lawyer tried to open an investigation, they threatened him with jail. He decided to persue it anyway, and something happened to shut him up in a big hurry.


Accountability?

Nope. Blame the "perp" for excercising his Constitutional right to defend his property from armed intruders.

Why?

Because his neighbor accused him of a crime they didn't witness, and wouldn't sign their name to.

Did the other cop get fired?

Nope. Probably got promoted.

Blame everyone else.

It might be time to start holding cops personally responsible for financial liability.


But rhetoric aside -- if the cops can't police themselves, it's asinine to expect the public to trust them in any other aspect of policework. A zero-tolerance policy when bad judgement results in major injury or death to a civilian would be an outstanding start.