delany wants to expand big 11 for sake of big 11 network

[Screw_Michigan]

per teh AP

Big Ten considers expanding to 12 schools, Delany says

DES MOINES, Iowa — Big Ten officials will likely discuss expanding to 12 schools to accommodate the new Big Ten Network, commissioner Jim Delany said.
The network, which is scheduled to launch Aug. 30, would benefit from an additional big-name university in a large television market, Delany said.
“I think we need to look at it in the next year,” he told the Des Moines Register on Wednesday. He offered no specific candidates.
“The broader (the network) is distributed, the more value (expansion) has. We have eight states. With expansion, you could have nine,” he said.
In football, a 12th school could mean two divisions and a postseason playoff. That’s an appealing concept to the startup network.
“Any television executive would do whatever they could to be able to air a game like the Big Ten championship,” said Mark Silverman, Big Ten Network president. “It would be worth a considerable amount of value.”
Coaches think otherwise, said Iowa head football coach Kirk Ferentz.
“I’ve not met anybody in coaching that really enjoys it,” Ferentz said of the divisional playoff format. “There’s a lot of downside to it, in my opinion.”
Among the concerns are missing out on a BCS bowl by losing the conference title game.
Delany said expansion would not guarantee the Big Ten would create an extra game.
“I could live with two divisions and a championship game, but I think that has a tendency to devalue the season-ending game and have a negative impact on your losing team in season-ending games,” he said.
“I don’t want us to tear ourselves apart over the structure of football for the sake of expansion.”
The Big Ten tried to lure Notre Dame into the conference in 1999, but the Fighting Irish chose to remain a football independent after lengthy discussions.
Delany said of Notre Dame: “There aren’t many universities that produce that kind of value.”
———
Information from: The Des Moines Register, http://www.desmoinesregister.com

this sounds fucking great. let's reduce the scU-M/osu game to just another regular season game for the sake of a fucking tv network that's going to show bottom-tier sports and probably won't be picked up by 85% of the cable providers in the nation.

yeah yeah: delany wants , but for the love of god and g0d, hasn't the acc proven to anyone yet that the two-division/championship game format is fucking retarded? 25k in jacksonville out front should have told you. reconfiguring your entire league for football is still lame.

the traditionalist in me won't back down from this. and since there is no fucking way the big 11 will add ND (for various, ahem, reasons), fuck expansion. delany should have done what the pac 10 did and made the 12th game a league game instead of a money game. fucking asshole.

[RumpleForeskin]

Fuck ND. THey will never give up the Ind. status. I mentioned in another thread that Iowa St. should move over to the Big 10 and Boise St. or UofH should move to the Big 12. YOu have to make the offer to a team that can profit from the deal and all of these schools would profit from something like this.

[Danimal]

I don't know if ISU makes that jump but I wouldn't care if they did. I'm a Boise fan. Though I'd prefer to dump Baylor and bring TCU in.

[King Crimson]

no way Boise joins the Big XII. what *else* are they competitive in? I'd bet Missouri before ISU.

[Degenerate]

Michigan and OSU are looking to add a real softie to the league without having to travel far for road games, so the Detroit Lions would be a natural fit.

[Terry in Crapchester]

I'm with King Crimson on this one. If a Big XII team jumps to the Big Ten, it's more likely to be Missouri than Iowa State. Missouri also has academic standards more in line with the Big Ten than Iowa State.

In that event, TCU would be the most likely candidate for the Big XII. Either Arkansas or Colorado State probably would be a better bet than either Houston or Boise State.

I could definitely see Boise State leaving the WAC, but in that event, the MWC is their most likely destination.

ND won't join the Big Ten, and wants to remain independent.

[King Crimson]

actually, i don't ever see Colorado State in the Big XII either. they had a nice little run in football in the late 90's, but don't draw well, kind of an invisible fan base around metropolitan Colorado and don't contribute much else in terms of athletic programs. doesn't really add much to the Denver media market to have both schools--which would be the best argument. Denver just isn't much of a college sports market. OU is on TV here more often than CU. In fact, i think Utah or BYU would be a better play than CSU.

i doubt Arkansas leaves the SEC. i think they had their fill of playing in a conference where half your games are in the state of Texas. appears to be NO love lost there.

mizzou to the big 10, CU to the pac 10 (they've been wanking about it for years around here)....bump OU and OSU into the North. Big 10 and Big XII switch names. we keep the roman numeral.

the only fallout is what happens with OU-UT every year. but, OU-NU is back.

i don't see TCU or Houston as any improvement over Baylor. Baylor is competitive in spring sports--baseball, golf, etc.--and won the womens hoop NC. they hurt in revenue sports, but do represent elsewhere. TCU is good in football *right now* but don't have any sustained success historically--at least since Bobby Layne and Doak Walker were Frogs. i don't see much else compelling about TCU. baseball, maybe.

[Terry in Crapchester]

CU to the pac 10 (they've been wanking about it for years around here)....

IIRC, the Pac-10 offered CU a few years back, and CU rejected them. Has something changed since then?

bump OU and OSU into the North. Big 10 and Big XII switch names. we keep the roman numeral.

the only fallout is what happens with OU-UT every year. but, OU-NU is back.

If you drop to ten teams, you lose the divisional alignment and the conference championship game.

[King Crimson]

CU to the pac 10 (they've been wanking about it for years around here)....

IIRC, the Pac-10 offered CU a few years back, and CU rejected them. Has something changed since then?

this is (by now) a subject of much internet lore concerning the formation of the Big XII. the picture (hearsay, since i don't think any official offers were made) that people talk about were CU and UT to the Pac 10 and OU and ATM to the SEC. and the rest of the Big 8 and SWC to fend for themselves. it's hard to differentiate what really happened and what is wishful thinking. every fan base involved has a different variant of the story.

to be honest, CU prolly isn't that attractive to the Pac 10 now since the athletic department is in the red, not terrificly supported, and running at the bare minimum of sports to stay at D-I. they cut Men's tennis last year. and the football team is not a top 10-top 25 type team as it was in the mid 90's. not to mention the bad press and "scandal" of 2004. after a pretty complete housecleaning, i do think things are on the upturn at CU, but it's going to take some time for results on the field/court.

bump OU and OSU into the North. Big 10 and Big XII switch names. we keep the roman numeral.

the only fallout is what happens with OU-UT every year. but, OU-NU is back.

If you drop to ten teams, you lose the divisional alignment and the conference championship game.

you are right. my divisional logic would be unnecessary. though, i'd much prefer a conference where everyone plays one another every year and home-home in hoops. I can certainly live without a conference championship game. though, i realize that my preferences as a fan are NOT what drive this train.

[SoCalTrjn]

what would they call it since there is already a big 12?

The Mid East 12?

[Terry in Crapchester]

what would they call it since there is already a big 12?

The Mid East 12?

Considering that they didn't change the name when Penn State joined and they went to 11 teams, I'm thinking that they'll keep the Big Ten name regardless of the number of teams they have. That's not a totally unique situation, either. The Atlantic 10 Conference has retained that name, even though they have 14 members. Admittedly, though, the Atlantic 10 is not a 1-A football conference.

If they change the name? Dunno, Great Lakes Conference, maybe. It'd make sense (somewhat) from a geographic standpoint. For geopolitical reasons, no college conference will ever refer to itself as "Mid East" anything.

[Cornhusker]

Two words...TV revenue
That'd be Rutgers or Louisville. Missouri may fit the bill but Iowa St offers notta.
The conference that can't count would never consider ISU.
While Rutgers doesn't have a traditional deep fan base, the locale screams possibilites.

[Terry in Crapchester]

Two words...TV revenue
That'd be Rutgers or Louisville.

The exit fee in the Big East by-laws (5 years notice or $5 million) may make a move out by any of those teams unaffordable. That won't stop Penn State from lobbying for Pitt, of course.

[PSUFAN]

Paterno has said he think Pitt would be a good addition. The first time I heard it suggested, I thought it was silly...but now I think Pitt would be a good choice. In all honesty, The JON convinced me of it.

Rack Screw_Michigan's post. I'm not a fan of Delaney. Right now, he's got moneybags on the brain. It's gross to see him foaming at the idea that they could expand their market share. What he's not realizing is that a lot of cable providers are not falling over themselves to get the BTN. A lot of folks are locked in to contracts with cable providers that carry prohibitive exit penalties. In one article I read, he says that people can just switch providers...glad to hear you've thought this through, Delaney.

This whole Big Ten Network thing is a debacle.

[MuchoBulls]

Two words...TV revenue

That would certainly fit the bill for Missouri, or Maryland for that matter.

Terry is correct about the Big East exit fees and I'd have a hard time believing that any of the Big East teams would want to bolt anyways.

JoePa wants nothing to do with having Pitt in the same conference as Penn St.

[PSUFAN]

What makes you say that, Mucho? Recently he stated that he thought Pitt made sense as an addition (I'm googling, trying to find the article)

[RumpleForeskin]

I like the idea of Mizzou moving over to the Big 10 and TCU sliding into the Big XII. Except, how would they allign the divisions? TCU can't be in the North division, can they?

Anyways, in the big scheme of things, both conferences wouldn't see that much more revenue being generated from either one of those schools, but its an easy solution b/c there would be very little red tape.

[MuchoBulls]

What makes you say that, Mucho? Recently he stated that he thought Pitt made sense as an addition (I'm googling, trying to find the article)

The same guy who dropped Pitt from the schedule because they weren't "competitve enough" now wants to put them back on the schedule hypothetically? That's surprising.

It would really surprise me to see that PSU would want to help Pitt.

[PSUFAN]

The same guy who dropped Pitt from the schedule because they weren't "competitve enough"

Firstly, I am in favor of a permanent home-and-home with Pitt. I have been critical of those who offer financial reasons why the game can't be played. It's odd to be in the position of defending Paterno on this issue, but I think there was more to the ending of the series than how competitive Pitt was(n't).

From June 20: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07171/795565-143.stm

Paterno answered that question the way he always has, bringing up his attempt at forming an all-sports eastern conference which was nullified when Pitt joined the Big East for basketball in 1982. That forced Penn State to join the Big Ten a few years later, and eventually, in 2000, the series ended. There have been no serious talks on renewing the series, and Paterno reiterated that Pitt would have to play the series on Penn State's terms.

"Financially, we have to have seven home games," Paterno said. "Now, if Pitt would say tomorrow that we'll play twice up at your place and once down here ... The last time we came to Pitt, they charged more money for our game than any other game.

"I'd love to play, but we have to think about some things in our place. We're going to play Virginia, Nebraska, Notre Dame. We have fans all over the country now, and they all want to see us in intersectional games. Saying that, I was with Dave Wannstedt, Marty Schottenheimer and Foge Fazio in Hershey last week. That was the topic sentence ... I love Pittsburgh, but we have economic things we have to consider. We're going to try to raise a billion dollars. We have to go to California to see people. We have to make a presence in a lot of different ways. I personally would like to have a home-and-home series with Pitt, but I don't think it's realistic right now."

That section raises a few questions for me...but I think that Joe would not be adverse to playing Pitt given the right circumstances.

[MuchoBulls]

PSU, what that basically says to me is that there is not going to be any 1 for 1 deal with Pitt. PSU's terms would be something along the lines of a 2 for 1, or 3 for 2 deal, which I be surprised if Pitt agreed to it.

That article just reaffirms my opinion that there is no way PSU would want to be in the same league as Pitt.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

That article just reaffirms my opinion that there is no way PSU would want to be in the same league as Pitt.

I think it's entirely possible to not want to play Pitt out of conference, but to want to have them established as a conference foe. Paterno's reaction suggests he's interested in reserving out of conference game dates for teams that occupy various regions of the country, in order to showcase PSU nationally. Pitt doesn't exactly qualify in that regard.

[King Crimson]

losing Missouri and gaining TCU would be a huge loss for the Big XII. TCU offers next to nothing-except current (see my previous post) football success in a middle tier conference. Missouri is an original Big 8 member (solid in football, basketball, and baseball). The power dynamic shifting further to the old SWC schools is a move back into the same backwards "We're Texas" parochialism that sank the SWC.

[MuchoBulls]

That article just reaffirms my opinion that there is no way PSU would want to be in the same league as Pitt.

I think it's entirely possible to not want to play Pitt out of conference, but to want to have them established as a conference foe. Paterno's reaction suggests he's interested in reserving out of conference game dates for teams that occupy various regions of the country, in order to showcase PSU nationally. Pitt doesn't exactly qualify in that regard.

That's a good point. The only thing that could be questioned is if JoePa still hold a grudge about what Pitt did 25 years ago.

[RumpleForeskin]

King, I think moving replacing Mizzou with TCU would enhance more scholarship opportunities in the other sports for TCU. I think they lack in other areas because of the unknown conference they play in. If TCU can stamp Big XII on their uniform sleeves, then they will gain some notoriety and most likely be more competitive in baseball, basketball, and the other various sports.

[King Crimson]

King, I think moving replacing Mizzou with TCU would enhance more scholarship opportunities in the other sports for TCU. I think they lack in other areas because of the unknown conference they play in. If TCU can stamp Big XII on their uniform sleeves, then they will gain some notoriety and most likely be more competitive in baseball, basketball, and the other various sports.

you mean like it did with Baylor? actually, i'm kinda goofin' ya. Seriously, it's a good point you make. but it's still trading a known for an unknown in addition to losing a much larger alumni base and state base. Most TCU fans went to TCU or are from Fort Worth I'd guess. MU commands loyalties (no real instate rival) in an entire state with two metropolitan areas--KC and STL.

and it's hard for me to imagine Missouri losing a conference rivalry with KU. it's a a lesser known one nationally, but as mean-spirited and fierce as any in the country. going back to the Civil War. those people hate each other.

[RumpleForeskin]

All very good points. That is why ISU should get bumped and UofH should join. They're baseball team is competitive, basketball finished 2nd or 3rd in conference the last 3 years, and their track and field are always ranked near the top. They also have enough talent in the big city of Houston to stay competitive even with rivals such as Texas A&M, Texas, and LSU just a few hours away.

[King Crimson]

i think Houston has a better "resume" than a lot of people will give them credit. as long as they can keep him, Briles is a good coach. While I'm not a huge fan of Tom Penders (a poor man's Billy Tubbs), he's a coach who has had success at more than one place. it's a pretty good pair of coaches in the men's revenue sports. and, as you say baseball and track and field.

like i say, i don't see TCU--or, say Boise--offering that kind of competitive, more comprehensive program.

i don't think ISU is going anywhere, though. no real options. they have a small, but rapid fan base. especially for hoops. they represent.

[PSUFAN]

The only thing that could be questioned is if JoePa still hold a grudge about what Pitt did 25 years ago.

There's no doubt that he does. However, that didn't prevent PSU from scheduling Pitt for 4 games in the late 90s.

MGO is right - if Pitt was a conference foe, it would be a different matter. The PSU AD doesn't see a spreadsheet reason to schedule Pitt as a home-and-home non-conference opponent. They are looking to maximize revenue at every opportunity.

Now: this is something that I harp on constantly at the PSU Scout message board. As a fan who grew up in the times where Pitt/PSU was a really strong rivalry, I think that it could be that again. Therefore, I wish PSU would resume a permanent home-and-home with Pitt, and I wish that as a Football Fan. A lot of PSU fans will discount that and give more prominence to what such a decision would do to revenue. I call these folks Spreadsheet Fans.

Football Fan: I want to see PSU play competitive games wherever possible. Let the finances solve themselves, or at least let the spreadsheet geeks on the payroll in the Athletic Department figure it out. The 12th game should be used to schedule compelling opponents, both home and away, because that would make for good football games.

Spreadsheet Fan: 12th game? Great! We can use that to make more money. We can't play a team like Pitt, because we'd fail to make the most possible money for the program in that matchup, unless they agree to coming to University Park as much as possible. Non-conference play should be reserved for games where we can fill up Beaver Stadium. It doesn't matter if the non-conf. opponents are Temple, the University of Buffalo, or even 1-AA teams - home games are home games, and the stadium will still mostly fill up even if we play Woodland Hills High School.

I guess I fall in the first category. I basically assume, as a fan, that the books are balancing. I'm not of the opinion that PSU Football is teetering on the edge of financial collapse. If they were, and we had to drop a few of the smaller sports, then, as a Football Fan, so be it - and obviously that starts into a dialogue about Title IX, one that we've explored credibly here in the past...

PISS on Title IX.

Rack it!

[MuchoBulls]

Good points PSU.

I just don't see how you would be helping yourselves by scheduling Pitt. You already draw well enough regardless of who you play. The only ones you are helping is Pitt because they know that PSU fan would travel en mass to Heinz Field. I'm sure you saw the article in the Post Gazette today about Pitt and their ticket selling woes for this season.

[PSUFAN]

I sure did. http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07208/804869-194.stm

I'm not a fan of Bob Smizik's writing, but he nails this one utterly.

Pitt's 2007 home schedule:

Eastern Michigan
Grambling
Connecticut
Navy
Cincinnati
Syracuse
South Florida

Season tickets are going for $120.00. You can add a second for an additional $10.00. Don't snap your CC in the rush to get it out of your wallet.

No offense to USF. I will enjoy watching that game - I may even attend, especially if you are in town...

[MuchoBulls]

That game is on Thanksgiving weekend, so I would have say that I will not be attending that game. The only way I would be going is if a win won us the Big East Championship and I don't think we're there just yet.

[Adelpiero]

king

i think it would be a bad move for mizzou

baseball, they would excell, be one of top programs, in wrasslin, they are already a top 3 program, and had the 2nd best recruiting class in nation, but u lose a lot, heres why

st.louis is already a big10(city is split) market nothing gained, but maybe a couple more st.louis recruits

kc is a big12 city, u could lose the kc kids and some of the southern mo and northern Mo kids.

a plus: kids want to be on tv and big10 is on tv all day, every fuckin team, wether on local access on tv here in st.louis, or espn,abc, espn2, etc.

its taken a while to get nebraska fan thinking about mizzou football again, and they could take a big step this season, going to the big10 would not exactly help their football program. basketball? sure, baseball? sure, wrasslin, i say equal, although big10 is a muther of a conference in wrasslin, they usually go 7-8 deep.

and fuck having KU be a OOC game, it means more when it matters, especially this year.

[Terry in Crapchester]

Upon further review, I'm all but convinced that the Big Ten wouldn't get any Big East school to jump ship. Several factors come into play.

First, as has been mentioned already, the Big East made it much more difficult, from a financial standpoint, for any of its members to leave than was the case in 2003. Second, two of the Big East schools which have been mentioned so far (West Virginia and Louisville) would not meet the Big Ten's academic standards. Third, and perhaps most importantly, why would any of those teams give up the opportunity to be (at least potentially) an elite member of the Big East in favor of an also-ran (at best) in the Big Ten? The only way that analysis possibly changes is if the Big East loses its automatic BCS bid after this season. But that possibility looks a lot less likely now than it did at this time two years ago.

88 was correct that ND won't go to the Big Ten, and probably won't even receive serious consideration this go-round. However, his analysis completely ignores the history between ND and the Big Ten. Simply put, for those who remember the analogy portion of the SAT's, Notre Dame : Big Ten :: Penn State : Big East. Only for a much longer period of time, and on a much larger scale. Nor, for that matter, was ND exactly thrilled about the possibility of being placed in a division with Wisconsin (last played in 1964) and Minnesota (last played in 1938), while being placed in the opposite division from Purdue (continuous rivalry since 1946) and Penn State (only northeastern school in the Big Ten).

Maryland and Missouri are both intriguing possibilities, although each has a problem. While each of them have the potential to form rivalries with existing Big Ten schools (Illinois and Iowa for Missouri; Penn State for Maryland), both of them have their current biggest rival in conference (Kansas for Missouri, Virginia for Maryland). And while there's no reason that either series could not continue as an OOC matchup, there's a real possibility that either rivalry might lose something in translation were it to become an OOC, rather than conference, game.

I think 88 might actually have stumbled onto the best possible solution, from the Big Ten's standpoint, although he was not quite as forceful about making the point as he should have been. BC would make the most sense, on many levels. BC is currently in a conference in which it doesn't have a true rival (Miami is the closest thing to an historic rival in the ACC for BC, and Miami is well over 1,000 miles away from BC, not to mention not playing BC every season under the current ACC alignment). BC would undoubtedly accept the proposed North/South alignment in the Big Ten without complaint, provided that they were guaranteed Penn State as their annual crossover rival. Penn State would get the one thing it hasn't had since joining the Big Ten, a true conference rival (Penn State will always play second fiddle to Michigan as a rival in the eyes of Ohio State, and the Penn State - Michigan State "rivalry" has always struck me as being just a tad contrived, to put it extremely charitably). And this wouldn't be the first time BC joined a conference as that conference's second choice for a 12th member after ND. :wink:

If the ultimate choice is BC, or even Maryland for that matter, the question arises as to what happens to the ACC. The Florida State - Tobacco Road partnership strikes me as being an uneasy one, to put it mildly. The ACC would lose its conference championship game, which undoubtedly would trouble Florida State. I think the first choice for a twelfth member would be either Syracuse or UConn, both traditional basketball powers who would fill the bill as the ACC's token northern member. But Jim Boeheim expressed qualms about Syracuse joining the ACC last time. And UConn was one of the schools that was being threatened with the possibility of being left high and dry last time. It would be interesting to see how they'd react with the shoe on the other foot. Also, as I mentioned earlier, there are the Big East by-laws about exiting the conference, which make that rather difficult. Temple, perhaps, to replace BC in that event?

[Danimal]

I think Pitt moving could be a reasonable option. WV and Louisville are poised for national-power status, why risk that? If 88 is correct then Cinci isnt' an option. If the East has really tightened their grip on their teams though it might be tough to get Pitt.

I am a Patterson fan, I think TCU could definitely hang in the 12 with him at the helm. But I don't really see anyone in the 12 moving away. If the 12 was to approach a 12-team it probably would be Mizzou.

[Qbert]

i'll throw it out for "fodder"....we know it won't happen.

NDbc acquires the New bIg 10 Network....bringing ND into the BIG 10.

NDbc can move ND games back and forth based on ND's sucktitude...ERRRR playing Northwestern and Indiana: and put on a viable bIg 10 Game instead.

FVCK this ESPNPlus stuff starting @ Noon.

i SAID it was "fodder."

ND should've joined the bIg 10 before Penn State.

[Terry in Crapchester]

ND won't join the Big Ten. ND cherishes its independence, and there's too much bad blood between ND and the Big Ten for ND ever to join that conference.

As for BC, while the move would make sense in some ways, there are some things militating against such a move as well.

First, while BC has no natural rivalries in the ACC, let me submit the name of a team which has potential to be a huge rival down the road: North Carolina State. The reason is quite simple: Tom O'Brien jumped ship at BC and landed at NC State. It's almost unprecedented for a head coach to leave one school to wind up at a school at the same conference, particularly where the new school doesn't have a demonstrably better tradition of success than the old school. I have no doubt that Fredo fan resents that turn of events.

Second, while BC has no natural rivalries in its conference at present, that doesn't mean that BC considers itself to have no meaningful rivalries. And the series which means the most to BC is evident from even the most cursory observation of the program: Notre Dame. Unfortunately for them, the ND series is ending in the near future. I suppose BC has three options in response: (a) work to get back on ND's schedule ASAP; (b) try to get revenge on ND; or (c) forget about it and move forward.

If option (a) is what they consider their best bet, they would have done best to remain in the Big East, although hindsight is 20/20. And in particular, in that regard ND pretty much already has a full slate of Big Ten schools, given that the Big Ten wants its members to play ND in the month of September. BC would then be at the mercy of Michigan, Michigan State and Purdue. It's doubtful that either Michigan State or Purdue would agree to anything more than, at most, a temporary hiatus in their series with ND. So that takes it down to Michigan. At best, BC could expect nothing more than occasional future appearances on ND's schedule if they joined the Big Ten.

Option (b) is a waste of time, and at any rate, as the new kid on the block, it's doubtful BC could accomplish that in the Big Ten. If option (c) is their objective, then the Big Ten makes more sense than the ACC.

Third is public perception. I'm assuming Delany wants to add a 12th team in relatively short order. If it's BC, that would make BC's third conference in less than a decade. That would only cement BC's reputation as a conference-jumper (essentially the reason they've earned the gloss Fredo on the ND homer boards).

[RumpleForeskin]

First, while BC has no natural rivalries in the ACC, let me submit the name of a team which has potential to be a huge rival down the road: North Carolina State. The reason is quite simple: Tom O'Brien jumped ship at BC and landed at NC State. It's almost unprecedented for a head coach to leave one school to wind up at a school at the same conference, particularly where the new school doesn't have a demonstrably better tradition of success than the old school. I have no doubt that Fredo fan resents that turn of events.

That is why I think the Alabama/LSU rivalry will be only second to OSU/Michigan for the next few years. Saban kind of did the same thing; just indirectly.

All the more reason why the team to move to the Big 11 is Pitt or a Big XII school (ISU or Mizzou). ISU makes the most since geographically because it fits the Midwest mantra that is the Big 11 and I think ISU will have a better chance at stabilizing their competitiveness in football when joining a conference that is consistently competing unlike the Big XII North. ISU's only real rival is Iowa...Nebraska has Colorado, Mizzou has Kansas and Kansas St. and vice versa. ISU sticks out like a sore thumb in the Big XII. Although, the struggle to compete for the first couple of years in football would be noticeable, they would be able to snatch up more in-state talent away from Iowa and Nebraska b/c they would be playing for the Big 11 and not the less popular Big XII north. And its not like ISU would be the bottom dwellers of the Big 11 in football, because they can definitely compete against Indiana, Illinois, Minnesota, Northwestern, Iowa, and Purdue.

The Big XII North needs a change bad and moving one team out and bringing another team in can maybe spark more interest in that division. Maybe Colorado St., Boise St., TCU, or UofH can make that happen. Who knows?

[SunCoastSooner]

king

i think it would be a bad move for mizzou

baseball, they would excell, be one of top programs, in wrasslin, they are already a top 3 program, and had the 2nd best recruiting class in nation, but u lose a lot, heres why

st.louis is already a big10(city is split) market nothing gained, but maybe a couple more st.louis recruits

kc is a big12 city, u could lose the kc kids and some of the southern mo and northern Mo kids.

a plus: kids want to be on tv and big10 is on tv all day, every fuckin team, wether on local access on tv here in st.louis, or espn,abc, espn2, etc.

its taken a while to get nebraska fan thinking about mizzou football again, and they could take a big step this season, going to the big10 would not exactly help their football program. basketball? sure, baseball? sure, wrasslin, i say equal, although big10 is a muther of a conference in wrasslin, they usually go 7-8 deep.

and fuck having KU be a OOC game, it means more when it matters, especially this year.

As someone involved in USA Wrestling and Sunkist Wrestling club all I can do is make a huge hardy laugh at Missouri being a top 3 program in wrestling. I hope you meant only if they move to the Big 10 in their conference you might (and I stress might heartly) be a top three program in the conference.

Missouri's wrestling program isn't even comparable traditionally to....
Oklahoma State
Iowa
Oklahoma
Iowa State
Minnesota
Penn State
Pittsburgh
Colgate
Nebraska
Arizona State
Cornell
Hofstra


Missouri has had a nice little run here recently in wrestling with Oklahoma and Nebraska being down in conference but traditionally Misery is now the traditional step child since Colorado and Kstate no longer have teams.

The Big 12 has over 60 national team titles from its member instituitions in wrasllin' (as you put it) and none of them have been won by Misery.

If Misery is a top 3 wrestling program in the country please do explain why there are only 3 kids who attended the University of Misery on any United States International squad ladder?

Misery might be able to edge out Michigan State for the forth best program in the Big 10.

[SoCalTrjn]

if the BCS conferences were that concerned about Notre Dame joining a BCS conference, they would just stop allowing BCS teams to schedule the Irish. You think NBC is going to pay that type of money to air games between Notre Dame and Marshall?
Take USC, Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, Stanford and then all of the BCS Conference schools that arent anual opponents of the Irish off of the Irish's schedule and the network leaves, the recruits leave and the Irish alumn will be forced to decide if they want to me a mid major independent playing a home and home with Boise State every year or if they want to join a conference

[Terry in Crapchester]

All the more reason why the team to move to the Big 11 is Pitt or a Big XII school (ISU or Mizzou). ISU makes the most since geographically because it fits the Midwest mantra that is the Big 11

I don't think Pitt makes the jump. I think it's too costly with the Big East exit fee now at $5 million. The Big East is likely to retain its BCS automatic bid, and Pitt has a better chance at competing for the Big East title than it does for the Big Ten title anytime in the foreseeable future.

As for Missouri or Iowa State, from the Big Ten's standpoint Missouri makes more sense for a few reasons. First, Iowa State doesn't have the academic standards the Big Ten wants. Second, the state of Iowa is already represented in the Big Ten. And third, the state of Iowa doesn't have any media markets that are even remotely comparable to St. Louis and Kansas City. Between those two choices, the only question would be whether Missouri wants to make the jump.

88 might be right about westward Big Ten expansion, but from a geographic standpoint, it makes the most sense. From a geographic standpoint, the logical split in the Big Ten is east/west, not north/south, and adding a team to the west gives you a natural divisional split, the Indiana/Illinois border.

East: Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Penn State, Purdue.
West: Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota, Missouri, Northwestern, Wisconsin.

Of course, that divisional alignment would place Michigan and Ohio State in the same division, so we know it's not going to happen.

The Big XII North needs a change bad and moving one team out and bringing another team in can maybe spark more interest in that division. Maybe Colorado St., Boise St., TCU, or UofH can make that happen. Who knows?

Boise State is not a good fit in the Big XII, geographically or otherwise. If Boise State winds up in a BCS conference, I see the Pac-10 as a more likely destination than the Big XII. TCU or Houston would be a better fit as a replacement for Baylor than for a North division school.

if the BCS conferences were that concerned about Notre Dame joining a BCS conference, they would just stop allowing BCS teams to schedule the Irish. You think NBC is going to pay that type of money to air games between Notre Dame and Marshall?
Take USC, Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, Stanford and then all of the BCS Conference schools that arent anual opponents of the Irish off of the Irish's schedule and the network leaves, the recruits leave and the Irish alumn will be forced to decide if they want to me a mid major independent playing a home and home with Boise State every year or if they want to join a conference

Ahh, therein lies the crux of at least some of my opposition to ND joining a conference. Most conference advocates seem to think it's necessary to appease the BCS. To that, I say why should ND sacrifice 120 years of tradition to appease an entity that didn't even exist 10 years ago, and might not exist 10 years from now?

I seriously doubt that the BCS wants any part of such a chicken fight. I suspect that if it were to happen, ND would dig in and try to do away with the BCS. If public opinion sided with Notre Dame, and it very well might, that would be the end of the BCS.

The only entity with the necessary muscle to force ND into a conference is the NCAA, not the BCS. So far, the NCAA has not shown any interest in doing that.