T1B

So as I'm rising at noon today with the mother of all hangovers, I think to myself "self, why the hell did you drink so damn much last night?" I mean what could have happened to make me go on a bender worthy of Otis of Mayberry fame? So the fog begins to lift, and I get this vision. Some little sonofabitch is streaking down the field in the Big House as the clock winds to zero and the visiting team is celebrating a massive upset. Whew, what a nightmare. What did I eat that would cause such night terrors. Surely this could never happen to the winningest program in the history of CFB......wait a minute. It was not a dream. The whiskey, beer, and jager only prolonged the pain. As I awake now I realize that my Wolverines suffered the most humiliating loss in their 120+ year history. The most humiliating loss in the glorious history of the greatest sport in the history of mankind. Don't let me understate it, there is no way to overstate it. I am still stunned. For the season to be regarded as meaningless by 4:00 pm on the first of September is more than I can get my pee brain around.

Where do we go from here?

I've been a Lloyd Carr supporter. I believe that he is a great charachter guy who has given the University, the football program, and the community so much in his nearly 30 years of loyal servitude. Sadly though, the game has passed him by. I think it's time for the program to go outside in search of the coach to lead the maize and blue into the future. Many around the school have prematurely tapped Ron English as Lloyd's successor. I think this would be a mistake. This is Michigan dammit. Let's go out and get the biggest name available. I don't know who that may be, but if he's currently a HC in a major conference and he's got the skill, go get him. Money should be no object. There aren't many jobs that rank as high as Michigan, and there are none that rank above. There may be 5-10 guys who are untouchable, we know who they are....Mack, Urban, Fatty, Vest, Pete, and very few others. The Rutgers guy (Schiano?), Rodriguez in WV, hell Petrino after he suffers through this years media circus in the ATL, any and all top flight candidated should be in the cross hairs. The program has stagnated. What fails to change, dies. This day has been coming for some time. I remember a nail biter vs. Utah before Urban had the high octane Utes hitting on all cylanders. There was a game, the opener, a few years back where it wasn't over until the end (must have blocked out the team, can't recall). The bottom line is that we need a decent recruiter (face it, enough great players will always want to come to Michigan), a solid developer of talent, an x and o guy, who's a great game day coach. A tall order? Maybe. But the next captain of the ship will be the most important hire since 1969, the last time we went "outside" the program. I think that worked out well.

How do we as Michigan fans face the remainder of the season?

I'm glad you asked. I haven't decided what approach to take. I know I won't watch sportscenter for at least a week. I haven't looked at the paper today, and won't for a bit. My favorite UM blogs and websites will be too painfull to check out for a couple weeks. As for my outlook on the team, the season is over, as far as I'm concerned. Run the table you say? I could care less. If they go 12-1, beating the likes of ND, Oregon, OSU, PSU, and Wisky, leaving only the one blemish on their resume...fuck em. The gutless performance (except for Hart and Crable IMO) sickened me to the point of writing off the rest of the year. I'll watch. Hart's senior campaign alone is worth tuning in. But my expectations are shot.

Hell, I'm in Florida. Maybe I'll adopt a second team. I have experience with this. I'm a Lions fan. So every years NFL playoffs go on without my team and I choose a team to bandwagon. Gators...no thanks. Trix makes it impossible to root for them. Noles, crowntibcicero knocks them out. Thug U, please. Tampa's only an hour north. I've been to Raymond James stadium for many a Buc game. Maybe the Bulls of USF could use my support. Mucho's a deece cat. Seems level headed. Plus I'd be getting in before their run to prominence. Food for thought.

Sorry for rambling, I got alot to sort out.

Go Blue!

At lease you can fire your coach we just gave Mack a lifetime contract. Actually all Texas really needs to do is realize that Vince Young is gone and Colt is not him. Move Jamal back to the I and run a pro style offense and we will be ok. but damn that was ugly last night. I sure hope Arkansas State is the real deal or this is going to be one ugly season.

I'm already bracing my self for a ass kicking next week and the Season over guy to come calling.

^^
After this, there was no greater pain for me.

I understand how you feel. It's going to be a rough week of practice for U-M.

It sucks to be on the receiving end of a game like that but that is what makes college football so great. Thats the risk you take by scheduling 1AAs though. Sooner or later it was bound to happen. Texas fan has to be a little rattled as well. I didn't watch the game but 21-13 is a little scary if you're in Austin right now.

Texas must have given up late points because they were ahead 21-3 into the 4th quarter. Maybe looking ahead to TCU next weekend,.

Steve, it might be time to come to RJS for a Bulls game this season. Let me know if you're going to come to any games.

Bobby42 wrote:

^^
After this, there was no greater pain for me.

I understand how you feel. It's going to be a rough week of practice for U-M.

i know it's fun to laugh at us right now, but patronizing is a bit too much.

[you don't know how many times i used the delete button in this post. i'm drunker tonight than i was last night. fucking bitch ass carr bitch players bitch team fuck them]

Bearcat92 wrote:It sucks to be on the receiving end of a game like that but that is what makes college football so great. Thats the risk you take by scheduling 1AAs though. Sooner or later it was bound to happen. Texas fan has to be a little rattled as well. I didn't watch the game but 21-13 is a little scary if you're in Austin right now.

i shit myself when they scheduled this game. not b/c i thought asu would actually win, but b/c they're a legitimately better team than a hefty amount of d-1a schools. i mean, cfb is smoke and mirrors to a certain extent. sure, you have to actually win the bowl game you scam yrself into, but if yr going to pay out for an easy win, ask western michigan or some other shitty mac team to lube up. app state would probably win the mac [witness marshall's rough transition to d-ia], but for some reason it's more credible to beat up on akron than it is to eek by app state. nevermind, that's just a chimera. aside from the obvious reasons - actually liking michigan - i hope we run the table and the next best team has 14 losses - or how ever many we'd need to qualify for the bcs - so we win the bcs. add to that app state's national championship of their own so we can discuss a dream d-ia vs. d-iaa championship. michigan would no doubt win, a neutral field and all..

I think losing to a d1-aa automatically makes Michigan ineligible for the BCS title game..

Vito Corleone wrote:At lease you can fire your coach we just gave Mack a lifetime contract. Actually all Texas really needs to do is realize that Vince Young is gone and Colt is not him. Move Jamal back to the I and run a pro style offense and we will be ok. but damn that was ugly last night. I sure hope Arkansas State is the real deal or this is going to be one ugly season.

I'm already bracing my self for a ass kicking next week and the Season over guy to come calling.

season over guy isn't as much of a douche as you'd like to think. when i'm near death and lamenting the time i could've used more productively, i'll no doubt remember 2006, when it took umich till late december to let on to what what a fuck-twat bunch of frauds they were. 2007, not so much. my lawn will be much more manicured this fall than it's ever been. saturday's are worry free when you know you support a large vagina.

peter dragon wrote:I think losing to a d1-aa automatically makes Michigan ineligible for the BCS title game..

i think being lloyd carr makes you ineligible for life, let alone the bcs game. i just want the d-ia champ to have lost a head-to-head with the d-iaa champ. michigan could win every game by 800 this year and it would only add emphasis to the only thing worth remembering about it.

WolverineSteve wrote:.......

i've been a lloyd supporter for years to guard against being too reactionary over losses, but eventually you realize the guy just can't manage a game and has been building his reputation off of the school's. umich is at a point where they still command the type of respect when it comes to recruiting [most of us on this board could land quality recruits for michigan - as long as you can keep straight who deals gmc's in the aa area and who deals fords] that the coach needs only involve himself in actually preparing for game situations, say when the other team throws in a wrinkle halfway through tthe second quarter. or better yet, when yr team wants to kick a fg. anyway, fuck that guy. he has parkinson's anyhow and obviously doesn't appear fit to coach a college football team, d111 included.

As an OSU fan.. its really hard to laugh and feel sorry for Michigan Fan.. This loss is the type of loss that could be program altering. The kind that teams don't come back from. I mean, I live in Ohio, and every once in a while you see that guy. Ya know the guy who lives in Ohio and he is walking around wearing his MICHIGAN T-shirt, with his chest all poofed out and acting like his shit dont stink. And up till Saturday, I always just nodded to him and kept walking. He knew I was a Buckeye fan, and I know he's a traitor, but we have that mutal respect for each other. The kind of respect that makes the OSU v. Michigan game what it is. But now, what is left. I have good friends that are Michigan fans who will no longer take my phone calls. Not because Im going to make fun or pick on him, it because they are in this massive drunken stupor. Like the world is no longer on kilter. So what happens now? I only hope that the Michigan boat can be rightened and the the team can move on... and hopefully choke away games in the future to only the sweater vested stud..

well fuck, there's not much of a precedent, is there? we'll all have to see where this one goes. straight to san antonio, i suppose...

anecdote: i talked to my sister after the game, who's a passive umich fan. she didn't quite follow my point: umich lost to APPALACHIAN STATE! isn't that some saturday night live skit?, she asked.

this girl is going to appalachian st. apparently she's much smarter than carr, eh.

WolverineSteve wrote:Surely this could never happen to the winningest program in the history of CFB

Might wanna amend that to "the winningest team in D1 history."

Since they're not the "winningest program in the history of CFB"... that would be the D3(used to be MAIA) Linfield Wildcats, of McMinnville, OR. Working on consecutive winning season #52, if'n I'm not mistaken.

Sure, it's D3 -- but 51 straight winning seasons is freaking impressive regardless what level you're playing.


Other than that... nice rant. I can hardly wait for the Michigan meltdown that's going to come after an 0-2 start.

peter dragon wrote:I think losing to a d1-aa automatically makes Michigan ineligible for the BCS title game..

In the past it used to take them two or three games before they broke our collective hearts...I'm glad they got it out of the way now. The stress out of winning these final 11 games won't be so bad. Plus, if Michigan does beat someone, that team will be the team that lost to the team that lost to a D-IAA team...gotta look on the bright side.

M Club wrote:but if yr going to pay out for an easy win, ask western michigan or some other shitty mac team to lube up.

the problem with that logic, dipshit, is that scU-M has allowed WAY TOO MANY of their mac opponents to play them tough and down to the wire in recent seasons at that funeral parlor you call the big house. ball state, miami, and niu are clear fucking cut examples. it was only a matter of time before a mac team (or any other school on a comparable level) would beat scU-M in their own sterile barn. app state just happened to jump the gun and finish business.

and shove your face-saving "shitty mac team" smack up your fucking ass. nice backhanded slap towards the mac, though. eastern michigan would have smoked you pussies saturday, as well would have any other team in the mac. i'm pretty sure louisiana-monroe and new mex state would have handed you your asses as well.

your football program is the down right disgrace of the college football world. suck on that.

and if you are "too much of a LLLLLloyd supporter to be reactionary over losses," then that just shows how fucking foolish you really are. the same fucking mistakes that were being made in 98 are being made today, and only the culture of self-fellatio and "MICHIGAN MEN" would be ignorant enough to not notice that, or even more foolishly, ignore it.

go fuck yourself. enjoy being 0-2 when hosting 0-2 notre dame in two weeks in the battle for most overrated home football atmospheres in all of college football. there is no better televised entertainment than listening to the collective silence of the quietest 108k people ever collected in a stadium or watching nd students sing the alma mater after getting beat by 30.

Screw_Michigan wrote:

M Club wrote:but if yr going to pay out for an easy win, ask western michigan or some other shitty mac team to lube up.

the problem with that logic, dipshit, is that scU-M has allowed WAY TOO MANY of their mac opponents to play them tough and down to the wire in recent seasons at that funeral parlor you call the big house. ball state, miami, and niu are clear fucking cut examples. it was only a matter of time before a mac team (or any other school on a comparable level) would beat scU-M in their own sterile barn. app state just happened to jump the gun and finish business.

and shove your face-saving "shitty mac team" smack up your fucking ass. nice backhanded slap towards the mac, though. eastern michigan would have smoked you pussies saturday, as well would have any other team in the mac. i'm pretty sure louisiana-monroe and new mex state would have handed you your asses as well.

your football program is the down right disgrace of the college football world. suck on that.

and if you are "too much of a LLLLLloyd supporter to be reactionary over losses," then that just shows how fucking foolish you really are. the same fucking mistakes that were being made in 98 are being made today, and only the culture of self-fellatio and "MICHIGAN MEN" would be ignorant enough to not notice that, or even more foolishly, ignore it.

go fuck yourself. enjoy being 0-2 when hosting 0-2 notre dame in two weeks in the battle for most overrated home football atmospheres in all of college football. there is no better televised entertainment than listening to the collective silence of the quietest 108k people ever collected in a stadium or watching nd students sing the alma mater after getting beat by 30.

your life seems miserable. sorry.

M Club wrote:anecdote: i talked to my sister after the game, who's a passive umich fan. she didn't quite follow my point: umich lost to APPALACHIAN STATE! isn't that some saturday night live skit?, she asked.

this girl is going to appalachian st. apparently she's much smarter than carr, eh.

OMG that girl is a moron. I hope that pretty face works for her because she doesn't have anything else to work with.

M Club wrote:your life seems miserable. sorry.

Screw is an okay dude but when his screen name is "Screw Michigan", do you expect anything glowing about the maize and blue to come from his direction?

Shoalzie wrote:Screw is an okay dude but when his screen name is "Screw Michigan", do you expect anything glowing about the maize and blue to come from his direction?

True, but what's with the vitriol directed at ND? Other than generalized hatred of ND, of course.

On second thought, he writes for the newspaper that most in here would consider ND's "hometown" newspaper. I suppose that could be difficult for somebody who is not a ND fan. Also, throw in the fact that the most prominent Michigan State alum on this board AFAIK is actually a ND fan, which I'm sure does not sit well with him.

Screw does just fine. He just REALLY hates Michigan.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:Screw does just fine. He just REALLY hates Michigan.

What gives you that idea?

Q, West Coast Style wrote:

BlindRef wrote:

Thanks for the reminder. If ol Ryno puts a little more air under that ball WSU goes up 14-0 and Michigan doesn't catch 'em. The bad news for you is that since that didn't happen LLoyd Carr's still got that National Championship goodwill keeping him in Ann Arbor.

Like I was saying.

If this had happened to any other team in the Big Ten, I'd be disappointed. I'm a supporter of the conference and like to see them out-perform the other BCS conference teams. Hell, I'd rather see a Big Ten team lose to an App St than say, LSU or Miami.

But I'm happy to see anything that might humble the Michigan fanbase, and if this won't do it, nothing will. Every year I hear that the expectation is to win a MNC. Not even just a blind hope or a want. But it's EXPECTED. Yes, with inferior coaching, and inferior talent (not by a wide margin mind you) they still expect to just walk away with the trophy as if it's just graciously handed to them like a drink ticket at a JTR singles convention. And the moment this possibility falls through, then nothing else matters. The Big Ten championship? Nah, totally worthless. All that's left now is the Ohio St game. But after that? Nope, doesn't matter. Let's just disregard the fact that continuing to win, and winning bowl games especially, dramatically increases your chances of winning in the future. Winning big games on tv = more blue chip talent will sign with you.

Your team has been the most mediocre "elite" program in several years. By that I mean you manage to stay up in the polls, you manage to maintain media hype and stay relevant in the news world, you land solid blue chip out of state recruits, yet you don't win big games. You can't figure out how to win consolation bowl games or beat Jim Tressel, yet the expectation is to win national titles? Give me a break. Figure out how to be the best in your own conference before you start crying about one loss seasons equating to absolute "failures." I don't think MichiganFan, by and large, is classless. That's not where I'm going with this. They have a quiet arrogance about them, and a "holier than thou" mentality, and it's definitely nice to see them brought back a couple rungs. 1997 was an entirely different era. You can't coast on that success forever. Time to man up and realize your team is just another Big Ten school competing for Big Ten titles. And if you win more than that? Hey, consider it a freaking bonus.

Yes, I'm one of those digusting fans that wants a championship every year...damn, I'm so awful.

When you go into every season in college football, you're eligible to play for the national title until you lose a game, so you have to look at winning every game you play to get that opportunity. It's not like basketball where losing 5 games it still makes you a #1 seed in the Big Dance. In college football, you lose once (in most cases) or twice and you're left picking up a door prize at one of the 25 "traditional" corporate-sponsored holiday football bonanzas.

As a fan of any team, am I supposed to get off on a 4-loss season and bid to the Outback Bowl or should I hope for an unbeaten or a great one loss season and play for the glass football? I guess it just depends on what your reasonable expectations are and what you consider to be a satisfactory season. Yes, not winning a national title in a season isn't disastrous and the end of the world but you're left playing for secondary and tertiary rewards in a sport where I still think the top goal is to win the championship. If you playing for a national title at the end of the season, it's a given you've won your conference...Michigan last year didn't win the Big Ten and they were rightfully left out of the big game in Glendale in spite of their one loss regular season.

This year's Michigan team was probably not a top 5 team going into the season in my mind but then again, I didn't know of 5 teams on paper that were better than them going into the season. You just don't know how much teams change from year to year until you see them actually play. You don't honestly know how good most of these top teams are until you watch a few games. Once you get through the first four or five games, you get an idea of what teams are elite that year and who are the also-rans. Michigan in 2007 is an also-ran because they lost. Had they made that field goal at the end beat the Mountaineers and avoided embarassment and then turned around this week and got beat by two TDs by Oregon...I think they're title hopes are just dead as they are now. You're left to rooting them on through the conference season and beating the chief rivals and getting into the highest profile holiday game as you can.

Given the magnitude of this loss and the reaction this has brought out nationally. You're feelings as a fan has become polarized...do you hope this team rebounds and they beat their main rivals and win a Big Ten title or do you hope they lose 5 or 6 games and Llllloyd finally leaves? Since you're not playing a national title any more, your priorities do change as a fan. Considering the head coach is under fire, do we as Michigan fans want an 11-1 season and give the embattled coach a reason to stay another year just to disappoint us another season? It's tough to hope your team fails after the highest hopes are out the window for the season. I don't want to see this team crash and burn but then again, I think for the long term future of this program, a change at the top is what I probably want as much as I want a championship. I'm just not confident that Carr can lead a team to another season like '97 because he's not winning the big games.

Shoalzie wrote:Yes, I'm one of those digusting fans that wants a championship every year...damn, I'm so awful.

I wrote:Every year I hear that the expectation is to win a MNC. Not even just a blind hope or a want. But it's EXPECTED

We've debated this for the better part of a year. It seems in all this time you still cannot differentiate between the concepts of "want" and "expect."

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:If this had happened to any other team in the Big Ten, I'd be disappointed. I'm a supporter of the conference and like to see them out-perform the other BCS conference teams. Hell, I'd rather see a Big Ten team lose to an App St than say, LSU or Miami.

But I'm happy to see anything that might humble the Michigan fanbase, and if this won't do it, nothing will. Every year I hear that the expectation is to win a MNC. Not even just a blind hope or a want. But it's EXPECTED. Yes, with inferior coaching, and inferior talent (not by a wide margin mind you) they still expect to just walk away with the trophy as if it's just graciously handed to them like a drink ticket at a JTR singles convention. And the moment this possibility falls through, then nothing else matters. The Big Ten championship? Nah, totally worthless. All that's left now is the Ohio St game. But after that? Nope, doesn't matter. Let's just disregard the fact that continuing to win, and winning bowl games especially, dramatically increases your chances of winning in the future. Winning big games on tv = more blue chip talent will sign with you.

Your team has been the most mediocre "elite" program in several years. By that I mean you manage to stay up in the polls, you manage to maintain media hype and stay relevant in the news world, you land solid blue chip out of state recruits, yet you don't win big games. You can't figure out how to win consolation bowl games or beat Jim Tressel, yet the expectation is to win national titles? Give me a break. Figure out how to be the best in your own conference before you start crying about one loss seasons equating to absolute "failures." I don't think MichiganFan, by and large, is classless. That's not where I'm going with this. They have a quiet arrogance about them, and a "holier than thou" mentality, and it's definitely nice to see them brought back a couple rungs. 1997 was an entirely different era. You can't coast on that success forever. Time to man up and realize your team is just another Big Ten school competing for Big Ten titles. And if you win more than that? Hey, consider it a freaking bonus.

i find this cogent and well-reasoned, but i also read it with a calibrated understanding of where you live. maybe you should move down to tennessee or somewhere else to research if other fan bases are just as delusional. i certainly don't expect to contend for an mnc every year, let alone win it, but we're definitely not the most mediocre elite program out there. we're just the most mediocre elite program in michigan. go through a list of other "elite" programs and explain how michigan's any different. aside from usc, of course, or even ohio st.

oklahoma
texas
florida
auburn
lsu
miami
notre dame
tennessee
penn state
florida state
nebraska
alabama

some of those programs have had a fall from grace, but for the most part each of these teams might win 9-10 games a year, compete for a conference title, consider it a bad year if they lose four times, and occasionally, only occasionally, do things fall in place for them to enjoy a year or two at or near the top. michigan resides in this tier, so when it looks like things line up well like they did this year - offensive nucleas coming back, favorable schedule, couldn't possibly lose four straight times to osu - you might forgive the optimism. seriously, look at that list, add a team or two, remove another, and then explain how michigan isn't elite and why they're mediocre. i mean, it's about every year you check the big ten standings and find their 5-3 or 4-4 record jockying for position with minnesota for that fifth big ten bowl bid, non?

Shoalzie wrote:Given the magnitude of this loss and the reaction this has brought out nationally. You're feelings as a fan has become polarized...do you hope this team rebounds and they beat their main rivals and win a Big Ten title or do you hope they lose 5 or 6 games and Llllloyd finally leaves?

is that an actual question? i can't wait to go up to e.lansing and get crushed. too bad michigan plays on turf, else i'd get to see ohio state plant their flag above the block m at midfield. bye, carr...

i'm hoping for 12-1 and a carr retirement. i'm not lying about that parkinson's thing.

M Club wrote:

Shoalzie wrote:Given the magnitude of this loss and the reaction this has brought out nationally. You're feelings as a fan has become polarized...do you hope this team rebounds and they beat their main rivals and win a Big Ten title or do you hope they lose 5 or 6 games and Llllloyd finally leaves?

is that an actual question? i can't wait to go up to e.lansing and get crushed. too bad michigan plays on turf, else i'd get to see ohio state plant their flag above the block m at midfield. bye, carr...

i'm hoping for 12-1 and a carr retirement. i'm not lying about that parkinson's thing.

I say that only because there are some who hate Carr so much, they would like to see him leave under any circumstance. Had he won this game, I don't think the venom would be there but this game is a rallying cry for the hardcore Lloyd haters and I don't really see this momentum dying down regardless of how this season ends. This was the last straw for that crowd.

If your goal at the begginning of the year is not to win it all, then why pull on the jockstrap? Shooting for +.500, or becoming bowl eligible, or winning against our in-state rival, doesn't fill the bill in Ann Arbor. If that's arrogance then color me so. Does Texas shoot for conf. titles? USC? OSU? I know winning the SEC is more impressive than a MNC, but you see where I'm headed. Michigan has won more Big10 titles than any other school, it's not that extraodinary. If Indiana wins the conf., it's an accomplisment, do you see why some schools have differring expectations?

It's well documented that the goal in AA during the Bo regime was to win the Big Ten title and go to the Rose Bowl. Way before the BCS ruined the postseason, winning the conference and repping the B10 in the grandaddy was the best UM could ask for. Not to mention, winning the conf. was/is the only way you could be considered for a MNC. Good bad or indifferent, Lloyd is a hold over from those days. I think he has moved with the times in that he has elevated the overall expectation to loftier heights. 1997 had much to do with that, but things are different now, BCS and all.

Michigan will still win 8 games i think--it's not the goal, but you have to play it out. it sucks with all the NC and Heisman splitting talk about Henne and Hart....but, hey, in 05 i remember sending emails hoping OU would be bowl eligible. end up beating Oregon in the Holiday Bowl.

and John Blake had 3 losing seasons in a row. prior to, OU hadn't had back to back losing seasons since the 30's or something. Howard the Drunk went 5-5-1....so you have 4 years where Oklahoma goes without a winning season.

when i was kid; hell, when i was in college....you told me there would be a day OU would lose to a bad Tulsa team at home, win 3 games in a year, go winless at Owen Field in a season.....i'd still be laughing.

it happened. i used to drink beers with a CU fan at Boulder's legendary Sink on Sunday afternoons in the mid 90's.....and it was all i could do to "man up" and show in those years.