T1B

A few interesting questions regarding 'tapegate'. If the Patriots are found guilty without question:

1. How does this affect the rest of the league in general? I don't honestly believe that New England would be the the only team involved in such a risky enterprise, the potential benefits are just too great. Not defending it - just a thought.

2. Doesn't anyone else find it interesting that Mangini's team was the one to blow the whistle?

3. Will the assistant of the Patriots rat out anyone else in the league in an effort to save his own skin?

4. What is just punishment for the Team - Coaches - Players involved?

5. How will the Patriots respond on the field for the rest of the season?


Discuss . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

I see all questions and no answers. Have a take. Don't suck.

Mike Golic said take a first and third rounder......it'll never happen again.

I agree!

Th wrote:4. What is just punishment for the Team - Coaches - Players involved?

Just have those cheating fucks give back all of their Lombardi trophies.

Th wrote:1. How does this affect the rest of the league in general? I don't honestly believe that New England would be the the only team involved in such a risky enterprise, the potential benefits are just too great. Not defending it - just a thought.

Just like in MLB, sign stealing is probably attempted by every team in the NFL. The Eagles had 2 bench players holding up towels around the coach who was making the defensive hand calls from the bench against the Packers. The issue with the Patriots isn't that they were trying to steal signals, but the way they were going about doing it. I guarantee every team has a spotter whose sole job is to catch the defensive and offensive signals and try to tie them to the formations they see on the polaroids. But having something on video provides an almost instant ability for a team to adjust their play calling, probably within a series or 2.

2. Doesn't anyone else find it interesting that Mangini's team was the one to blow the whistle?

I didn't get the impression that Mangini blew the whistle rather the NFL made the bust themselves.. with the stories about this possibly happening before with the Patriots, it sounds like it was a sting.

3. Will the assistant of the Patriots rat out anyone else in the league in an effort to save his own skin?

Doubt it. His job isn't in jeapordy.

4. What is just punishment for the Team - Coaches - Players involved?

Make the team forfeit the win and this videotape bullshit will stop immediately. A hefty fine would be nice too.

5. How will the Patriots respond on the field for the rest of the season?

They'll probably just go back to using a spotter with binoculars like everyone else.


How sad that the Patriots, with all that offensive firepower, still had to resort to using video so that they could anticipate blitzes and man/zone coverages etc..

Th wrote:A few interesting questions regarding 'tapegate'. If the Patriots are found guilty without question:

1. How does this affect the rest of the league in general? I don't honestly believe that New England would be the the only team involved in such a risky enterprise, the potential benefits are just too great. Not defending it - just a thought.

The biggest effect will be the introduction of radios given to the defensive signal caller. The league tried to get that implemented this year, but the proposal only generated 22 of the necessary 24 votes. Curiously, the Pats voted NO.

2. Doesn't anyone else find it interesting that Mangini's team was the one to blow the whistle?

Not at all. Crennel's Browns have yet to play the Pats.

3. Will the assistant of the Patriots rat out anyone else in the league in an effort to save his own skin?

Who's he going to rat out? And how is he going to provide evidence against other teams?

4. What is just punishment for the Team - Coaches - Players involved?

IMO, they should forfeit the game and loose their 1st and 3rd round draft pick next year. The coaches involved should be suspended four weeks, as if they were found to have used performance enhancing drugs.

5. How will the Patriots respond on the field for the rest of the season?

It depends on what coaches are suspended and for how long.

Filddlesticks.

Every team does this, just the Pats got caught. if I can Google map my mother gardening in her backyard, then it should be no surprise to the rest of us and the league that teams are capable of doing this and are probably really creative when they think of ways of hiding it. Hell, fax printouts come out on the sidelines after a series is over, so how hard is it to look at a fax print out of the coverage and then look at the signal the coach sent in for the defense on that fax printout and figure out whre the blitz is coming from or what type of coverage will be on the next play. Its simple with today's technology.

mvscal wrote: You don't have a fucking clue.

I don't? Please. Every coach is worried about their job and they will do whatever it takes to secure their job. Morals and ethics don't even enter into it. Do I think this is fair? Hell no. But are there other teams out there who have pulled this stunt? Hell yes. I agree the Pats need to be made an example of, but don't sit here and tell me that they are an isolated incident.

Commons sense, mv.

mvscal wrote:Conspicuously absent from your post was a single solitary shred of evidence that any other team is involved in this let alone every other team.

You are a clueless douchebag.

I don't need evidence. Are you going to tell me that the Patriots are the ONLY immoral and unethical team to pull a stunt like this? If you truly believe this, then let me know how your pancreas looks with that front row seat you have with your head up your ass.

You are by far the dumbest person I have ever come across on the interwebs. There is always a first team to get caught and the Pats are the culprit in this case.

This is like HGH. A lot of players are doing it in the NFL, but the only ones getting caught are the ones who don't purchase it through an alias (sup Rodney). Everyone knows this, but nothing can be done about it unless they can trace THE order of it. Teams know other teams are stealing signs and coming up with more creative ways to pull it off. You ever wonder why coaches use their playsheet to cover their mouths? Last I checked, Patriots were not the opponent of every fucking coach who was using that tool to eliminate giving away their plays.

RumpleForeskin wrote:Filddlesticks.

Every team does this, just the Pats got caught.

If this refers to other teams using video cameras, I'm pretty sure you're wrong. The Pats were the only team to be mentioned in previous rumors to have been using a camera.

But if this refers to signal stealing in general, I agree. I'm sure 99% of the time teams are trying to read and interpret hand signals and read lips. Why do you think coaches/coordinators cover their mouths with the play chart when they call in a play? As a pointed out earlier, the Eagles had 2 players holding up towels around their defensive coordinator Sunday and it wasn't because the dude was taking a shit on the sideline. They obviously felt the Packers were trying to steal some signals.

Any attempt to hack radio signals or use cameras isn't just unsportsman like, it's taking cheating to a new level that teams can't necessarily protect against.

I’ll agree with mvscal on this one. Absolutely no proof whatsoever that any other team is doing what the Patriots were doing.

The logical move is to always adopt the position opposite Rumple’s.

It would never happen but on NFLN last night Terrel Davis had an interesting take. He said to make it like in CFB when a team gets probation and rule that the Pats, regardless of record, wouldn't be allowed to participate in the postseason. Said that would ensure nobody ever did it again.

I think loss of multiple draft picks (say a 2 and a 4) and a monster fine (say $500K) would be appropriate, with the lost draft picks going to the Jets. Don't just take away picks but give those picks to the team that was cheated on. Any second offense would result in no draft picks for 2 years, a $5 mil reduction in team salary cap, a $2 mil fine and an 8 game suspension of the head coach.

Shine wrote:It would never happen but on NFLN last night Terrel Davis had an interesting take. He said to make it like in CFB when a team gets probation and rule that the Pats, regardless of record, wouldn't be allowed to participate in the postseason. Said that would ensure nobody ever did it again.

I think loss of multiple draft picks (say a 2 and a 4) and a monster fine (say $500K) would be appropriate, with the lost draft picks going to the Jets. Don't just take away picks but give those picks to the team that was cheated on. Any second offense would result in no draft picks for 2 years, a $5 mil reduction in team salary cap, a $2 mil fine and an 8 game suspension of the head coach.

WAY too much punishment to fit the crime. Fine them, suspend The Hoodie for a couple of games, and call it even.

mvscal wrote:

BSmack wrote:Curiously, the Pats voted NO.

Surprise, surprise, surprise!

The Patriots* should forfeit the game and Belichick should be suspended for the entire year if not banned from the game. This is no different than point shaving.

Rack.

For all of you baseball tards, this is the NFL, not baseball. It's a sport where players actually have to work and not just trot out onto a field somewhere, after shooting up (allegedly), only to trot back in, more often than not -- night after night.

Frankly, I'm surprised Goodell didn't make the Pats forefeit the game, outright.

RumpleHusband wrote:Filddlesticks.

Most likely the gayest thing ever written on a smack board. Your fat, fucking wife is turning you into a faggot, which may be progress, for you.

RadioFan wrote:

mvscal wrote:

BSmack wrote:Curiously, the Pats voted NO.

Surprise, surprise, surprise!

The Patriots* should forfeit the game and Belichick should be suspended for the entire year if not banned from the game. This is no different than point shaving.

For all of you baseball tards, this is the NFL, not baseball. It's a sport where players actually have to work and not just trot out onto a field somewhere, after shooting up (allegedly), only to trot back in, more often than not -- night after night.

Frankly, I'm surprised Goodell didn't make the Pats forefeit the game, outright.

Rack Rack and Rack!

The NFL needs to crack down hard on this… I say the Patriots should have to forfeit the game and have an early round draft pick taken away. As far as a fine goes, FUCK that, the team would just screw the Fans next season to make it back.

RadioFan wrote:Most likely the gayest thing ever written on a smack board. Your fat, fucking wife is turning you into a faggot, which may be progress, for you.

Fuck off dick-tickler. Its evident you don't know shit about football considering the state you reside in.

The league dishing out punishment for rules violation isn't a funny concept or anything.

Well, the integrity of the game must be protected.

The office will take some punitive measures against the Gaytriots, sure.
They'll take just enough action to satiate mr fool sheep fan.
However they will neVar take action, or make implication, that the Chowds Super Bowl winning seasons are tainted in any way.


The sham must go on ..........

poptart wrote:The sham must go on ..........

Just like with what you guys are trying to pass off as football up there in Chokeland, right? Hey, I am not at all happy with my team being called cheaters but I can't imagine that its much worse than watching it lose at home to the Lions by 15 points.











Anyway . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . back to the point:


My response ~

1. Although the league hasnt ruled yet I feel that the effect of this on the league, at least in one respect, has become apparent. It has brought the issue of cheating, and its proponderance throughout the league, to everyone's attention. Even if you live in denial that it goes on across the NFL in one form or another - it does. This may change how its viewed and dealt with league wide.

2. Mangini likely knew about it due to his own involvement in it when he worked for BB and Co.

3. I firmly believe that this assitant will not give anyone up but will be severely punished.

4. With Goodell at the helm, I am confident that the punishment will fit the crime.

5. Two schools of thought on this. If there really was a 'distinct' advantage from whatever the Pats where doing then it should be gone on Sunday night. If that is true then they will get their asses handed to them on a plate by the Chargers, right? BUT - What if it goes the other way? What if the Patriots go on to beat the Bolts and have a very successful season with all this scrutiny and distraction? What we we all think of them then?

I just want to say that I am saddened and embarassed by "tapegate" and Rodney Harrison's HGH use.

I understand that the Patriots aren't the only ones to have taken unfair advantages in their efforts to win but they are my team and I don't care how many "others" have cheated. They are my team and they cheated.

I am saddened!

As much as it hurts me, I agree, the first game against the Jets should be a forfeit!

*********************************

..................

If you can meet triumph after defeat
And to receive these two liars of a same face,
If you can preserve your courage and your head
When all the others lose them,
Then, kings, gods, the chance and victory
Will be forever your subjected slaves
And, which is better well than the kings and glory,
You will be a man, my son.


Rudyard Kipling

Th wrote:It has brought the issue of cheating, and its proponderance throughout the league, to everyone's attention.

No, what has been brought to everyone's attention is that the Gaytriots are cheaters.

You can stop with the 'everyone is guilty of it' talk until you can link us up to some evidence of that.

poptart wrote:

Th wrote:It has brought the issue of cheating, and its proponderance throughout the league, to everyone's attention.

No, what has been brought to everyone's attention is that the Gaytriots are cheaters.

You can stop with the 'everyone is guilty of it' talk until you can link us up to some evidence of that.

Not that sign stealing is the only form of cheating but here is some pretty clear evidence on that one point as I wrote about in another thread:



Here's a link to an article from 2002 where even 'Master Splinter Shanahan' admitted to sign stealing. Again, not defending what the Patriots did as right, just saying that none of this is new.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside ... of_reilly/

Master Splinter 2002 wrote:It's no rumor, pal. "Our guy keeps a pair of binoculars on their signal-callers every game," says Broncos coach Mike Shanahan. "With any luck, we have their defensive signals figured out by halftime. Sometimes, by the end of the first quarter."

Now I am sure all you Patriot haters want to climb up on your high horse and stay there - thats all well and good but dont forget that the climb isnt as high as you would like to believe it is. Cheating is prevalent around the league whether you want to believe it or not.

Is sign stealing, absent the use of electronic equipment, illegal?

Why don't we just let the other team hack in to the radio frequency and listen in on the radio to the offense calls. Same thing, right. Same as trying to read lips? How about the other team uses parabolic dish mics to hear the coaches on the other bench? Fuck that whole cover your lips, bullshit. Set up some laser mics to hear right through the paper. that's cool, right? Listen to the bench coaches give their players keys to look for, and change your play calling based on that. All cool, right?

There is a distinct difference between trying to read a guys lips, and sending a fucking spy to the other teams sidelines.

Headhunter wrote:Why don't we just let the other team hack in to the radio frequency and listen in on the radio to the offense calls.

don't think some teams haven't thought about it

There is a distinct difference between trying to read a guys lips, and sending a fucking spy to the other teams sidelines.

so what you seem to be saying here is that there are "degrees" of cheating wherein some forms are acceptable and some are not...trying to lip read a coaches call is cheating.....trying to steal hand signals is cheating, but some how these forms of cheating are not as bad as videotaping an opposing benches coach trying to pick up on their opponents hand signals....

there are no "degrees" of cheating......

the NFL needs to come down HARD on the patsies

Th wrote: 5. Two schools of thought on this. If there really was a 'distinct' advantage from whatever the Pats where doing then it should be gone on Sunday night. If that is true then they will get their asses handed to them on a plate by the Chargers, right? BUT - What if it goes the other way? What if the Patriots go on to beat the Bolts and have a very successful season with all this scrutiny and distraction? What we we all think of them then?

This silly question can be answered before the game kicks off on Sunday. The Patriots would beat the Jets 9 out of 10 times without any espionage involved. I bet a friend of mine 4 days before the game the Pats would win by 21 or more. The Jets are NOT a good football team and the luck from last year was destined to not continue this year. Sunday night will be a straight up game between two very good football teams and the outcome could go either way. You give the edge to NE because they'll be at home and Norv Turner will be across the field coaching. But SD has enough talent that it isn't far fetched to think they could win the game. Win or lose NE is a good team and will have a successful season. They don't need to cheat to have success which makes the fact they did it that much worse IMO.

poptart wrote:Is sign stealing, absent the use of electronic equipment, illegal?

Not at all. What is illegal is recording the signs for future use.

So, is it safe to assume the Pats had a spy on the Iggles sideline during the SB? The Pats seemed to know where the Eagles where the blitz was coming from in the 3rd Quarter...

In my book the Eagles championship draught is over as the Patriots forfeit that SB win on grounds of suspected cheating..

:D:D

(I wish)

The Patriots got got caught cheating so they should definitely be punished for it. Especially since teams were sent out a memo right before the season warning them not to do what the Patriots did. However screw all the fans, players, and coaches with your holier than thou attitude. Cheating goes on everywhere in the NFL. If other teams do not videotape defensive coordinator hand signals it is only because they are afraid to get caught and so they cheat another way. It is not because they are above doing it too. That goes to the radio signals too. In fact I would bet other teams do the same thing. If you think otherwise than I have a bridge to sell you. The Patriots were just dumb with where they taped the signals. At least you guys can use this as cop out on why the Patriots have been the best overall team these last 6 year.


In closing I don't give a shit if everyone thinks there should be 10 giant asterisks next to their 3 Superbowl championships. And lol at the suggestion they should have to forfeit that game either. A hefty fine and the loss of a couple of draft picks sounds about right.

I so love the spin....

RSoxFan wrote:In closing I don't give a shit if everyone thinks there should be 10 giant asterisks next to their 3 Superbowl championships. And lol at the suggestion they should have to forfeit that game either. A hefty fine and the loss of a couple of draft picks sounds about right.

As long as the draft picks are 2 of 3 first day picks and the fine is over 5 million and counts against next year's cap, I could agree with that. And the league should donate the money to the old time players pension fund.

Bucmonkey wrote:I so love the spin....

It's called the truth.

BSmack wrote:

RSoxFan wrote:In closing I don't give a shit if everyone thinks there should be 10 giant asterisks next to their 3 Superbowl championships. And lol at the suggestion they should have to forfeit that game either. A hefty fine and the loss of a couple of draft picks sounds about right.

As long as the draft picks are 2 of 3 first day picks and the fine is over 5 million and counts against next year's cap, I could agree with that. And the league should donate the money to the old time players pension fund.

The first and last part of your statement I would have no problem with. The fine counting against the salary cap, no.

Or they could do New England like F1 just did Ferrari -- $100,000,000.


Bet they won't do the spying-thing again.

What the Pats have been doing is NOT cheating.

It's part of a long and honored tradition in the NFL.

This stupid "rule" that all you amateur lawyers are clinging to was put into place because other teams were pissed that the Pats had a leg up on all of them, so instead of manning up and including video scouting in their repetoire, they lobbied the league to try and stop the Pats instead.

This is bullshit.

Belichick thinks it's bullshit and that's why he's standing up to the NFL and forcing a showdown.

Belichick put Estrella out in the open for a reason.

He wanted this battle against the league and he wanted to fuck Mangini.

He's achieved both things brilliantly plus provided the best sort of motivation for his team this year.

It's gonna be so sweet watching him take the Lombardi Trophy from Goodell and then give the finger to all the haters, whiners and losers.

A pure football gods moment.

mvscal wrote:

BSmack wrote:Curiously, the Pats voted NO.

Surprise, surprise, surprise!

The Patriots* should forfeit the game and Belichick should be suspended for the entire year if not banned from the game. This is no different than point shaving.

When did you become a spineless pussy ?

Did it happen this week ?

I am shocked.

[quote="upstart"][/quote]

Upstart hit Thursday happy hour up pretty good tonight.

NEW YORK (AP) -- New England coach Bill Belichick was fined the NFL maximum of $500,000 Thursday and the Patriots were ordered to pay $250,000 for videotaping an opponent's offensive and defensive signals.

Commissioner Roger Goodell also ordered the team to give up next year's first-round draft choice if it reaches the playoffs and second- and third-round picks if it doesn't.

"This episode represents a calculated and deliberate attempt to avoid longstanding rules designed to encourage fair play and promote honest competition on the playing field," Goodell said in a letter to the Patriots.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=a ... &type=lgns