T1B

Posted: **Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:48 pm**

can we all agree that we need to just go ahead and give the heisman to mike hart?

dude has been incredible even when everyone in the world knows Michigan is going to run him.

who else? I think bradford could win one, but he is a freshman..

this guy didnt help his chances..

2) That DeSean Jackson is (clap-clap, clap-clap-clap) "over-rated". If "big-time players make big-time plays," as Santana Moss famously proclaimed, how do you explain Cal’s purported Heisman candidate producing a whopping four catches for 5 yards and one 12-yard punt return in the Bears’ crushing 31-28 loss to Oregon State? I realize Cal was playing with a backup quarterback, that receivers only get so many touches per game, that the Beavers were obviously loaded up to stop Jackson (hence, fellow receiver LaVelle Hawkins wound up with nine catches for 192 yards and two touchdowns) and that you can always punt away from him. But this wasn’t a one-time thing for Cal’s smack-talking superstar. His highlights this season have consisted of one big punt return (a 77-yard touchdown against Tennessee; he has a total of 30 return yards in his other five games) and one big receiving game (his 161 yards on 11 catches against Oregon exceeds his combined yardage of 156 in the other five games).

Jackson’s speed and playmaking ability is indisputable, but how much good is it really doing the Bears? A true, elite difference-maker finds a way to make an impact every week, not every third week. Perhaps Jackson only "gets up" for the big games (his two best performances have come against Cal’s two best opponents), but I doubt that’s the whole story. While Jackson loves to run in open space, watching him Saturday night it looked at times like he was trying to avoid contact like the plague. While the game will be remembered most for QB Kevin Riley’s ill-fated tuck-and-run with 14 seconds left, that play was set up by a pass-interference call Jackson garnered on third and long. If you watched the replay, you saw that Jackson was barely touched, but that didn’t stop him from sprawling on to the field like he’d just been struck by lightning and staying there for an extended period. Despite the defeat, Cal still controls its own destiny in its pursuit of that elusive Rose Bowl bid, but the Bears need Jackson on his feet, moving his feet, far more often than he has so far.

Posted: **Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:54 pm**

Jackson is a dynamic return-man but you have to be a good game-to-game player at your position as-well. Jackson has had some good games but some very meh games as-well at wr. He is not having a heisman year.

I'd agree about Hart, thus-far.

Posted: **Tue Oct 16, 2007 10:03 pm**

I was trying to see who else can hold a candle to hart. dude is amazing. especially after what has transpired during the Michigan season. it all comes down to if Hart can continue his success the rest of the season, and Nov 17 is critical.

If for some reason Hart doesnt continue his success, i think it could be a DB or some other unrecognized position.. (personally I want to see a OL win)

Posted: **Tue Oct 16, 2007 10:10 pm**

honestly, mcfadden is best player in CFB.

henne isnt anything special, but he atleast can make a few plays.

Arkansas best QB is mcfadden when he lines up behind center.

He has no help, absolutely none. He wont win it, but he is #1 cfb player this year.

Posted: **Tue Oct 16, 2007 10:18 pm**

If Oregon wins out with DD putting up big numbers despite his top 2 receivers and No. 2 running back lost for the year, I think he'll deserve serious consideration.

Posted: **Tue Oct 16, 2007 10:28 pm**

Lot of football to be played, but I think it's a virtual tie between Hart and McFadden right now. Hart is just an absolute beast.

Posted: **Tue Oct 16, 2007 10:31 pm**

If I had a vote, and I had to make it today...

Mike Freaking Hart, hands down.

I was sure impressed with the year Quentin Groves was having, but I believe he's done (?SEC Honk, help me out?).

Posted: **Tue Oct 16, 2007 11:10 pm**

http://www.ihearthart.com

Just sayin'

Posted: **Tue Oct 16, 2007 11:35 pm**

Matt Ryan

Posted: **Tue Oct 16, 2007 11:46 pm**

Mike Hunt

Posted: **Tue Oct 16, 2007 11:55 pm**

Top 5
1. Mike Hart: Michigan would be at or below .500 without him
2. Graham Harrell: His numbers are freakish...3151 yards, 31 TD, 3 INT, 74% pass completed
3. Sam Bradford: Best player on a title contending team
4. Dennis Dixon: Very efficient and has had to deal with injuries to some of his weapons
5. Ray Rice: Rutgers may be down but he's still one of the premier players in the nation; second in the nation in scoring

Honorable Mention: Rashard Mendenhall, Andre Woodson

Posted: **Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:31 am**

It seems under the Mike Leach system, a frozen pizza could put up "freakish numbers." Maybe Leach should get the Heisman. And McFadden may very well take home the hardware, yet he doesn't even make your honorable mention? Whoa.

Posted: **Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:35 am**

mike hart should win simply b/c ppl prone to hating michigan even say so. truthfully, i was looking through i hart heart and couldn't help but thinking he could possibly be the best football player to play at umich and could very well end up with four losses against osu. that's something i wouldn't have wished upon troy smith.

Posted: **Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:00 am**

Dinsdale wrote:I was sure impressed with the year Quentin Groves was having, but I believe he's done (?SEC Honk, help me out?).

He dislocated the toes on his left foot but should return for LSU.

He's the next Dwight Freeney, don't you think?

Posted: **Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:13 am**

Carson wrote:
He's the next Dwight Freeney, don't you think?

I try to avoid "he's the next **Whoever**" comparisons, although I'm not without guilt in that department.

Don't know if he's the next Dwight Freeney, but I do enjoy watching that stud play football, and if I was an NFL GM, I'd have a close eye on him. Maybe the most "NFL ready" player in CFB. Granted, I don't know the first thing about his character, work ethic, or anything else... just what I've seen.

Posted: **Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:16 am**

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:It seems under the Mike Leach system, a frozen pizza could put up "freakish numbers." Maybe Leach should get the Heisman. And McFadden may very well take home the hardware, yet he doesn't even make your honorable mention? Whoa.

Honestly, what has he done that is Heisman worthy over guys like Hart, Rice and Mendenhall? Hell, your boy Ringer is having a bigger year than McFadden.

Posted: **Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:36 am**

Honestly, what has he done that is Heisman worthy over guys like Hart, Rice and Mendenhall?

Ummm, honestly you mean? Well, he currently sits 4th in the nation in total rushing. So he's kinda got that going for him. Which has him ahead of guys like Rice and Ringer...sadly. Although if Ringer didn't have Caulcrick to "compete" with, there's no telling how much more gaudy his numbers would be at this stage. McFadden is also running behind 4 new O-linemen this year...I believe.

Posted: **Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:45 am**

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:
Honestly, what has he done that is Heisman worthy over guys like Hart, Rice and Mendenhall?
Ummm, honestly you mean? Well, he currently sits 4th in the nation in total rushing. So he's kinda got that going for him. Which has him ahead of guys like Rice and Ringer...sadly. Although if Ringer didn't have Caulcrick to "compete" with, there's no telling how much more gaudy his numbers would be at this stage. McFadden is also running behind 4 new O-linemen this year...I believe.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/sortables ... 7&group=80

McFadden is 10th in rushing...he's ahead of Rice, who is 11th but he's got more total yards than McFadden and like I said, he's second in the nation in scoring behind the frozen pizza's favorite receiver, Michael Crabtree.

I saw the stats just today and I didn't realize Ringer had close to a thousand yards already and is just 3 yards out of 2nd in the nation. I knew he had a high average considering most of his runs have the potential of going the distance.

Hart has a healthy lead on the field and I don't see anyone catching him as long as he plays every game and puts in his customary 100-150 yards and 2 TDs each week.

Posted: **Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:12 am**

Ahh, you're citing ESPN.

NCAA.org, shoalz.

Either way, NCAA.org has them listed #4 and #5 respectively, so we're talking a diff of just 1, 2 still. The stats are basically a wash...you say scoring...I say McFadden has managed to actually rush for MORE yards on considerably LESS carries. The fact Rice has punched the ball in the endzone more isn't necessarily an indicator of "better player." Arky's ball distribution is more evenly spread around than Rutgers' is, as they have another RB who sees quite a few carries, which results in taking away TDs from McFadden, as opposed to Rice being Rutgers' entire offense, so naturally, he'll rack up more TDs...and quite frankly, he SHOULD be ahead of McFadden in total rushing considering that fact. Yet he's not. Anyway...toss all that aside for a moment and just WATCH both players. I'm confident you'll agree McFadden is the more talented back.

If this was an MVP award, I'd probably put Rice ahead of McFadden. But it's not. It's the nation's best player award.

Anyway, that debate is irrelevant as I still think Hart is the best player in the game right now.

Posted: **Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:29 am**

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:I say McFadden has managed to actually rush for MORE yards on considerably LESS carries.

Anyone who names McFadden is on freaking drugs. His freaking backup runs the same plays(for the most part) behind the same O-Line for the same team... and averages almost double the yards per carry. If you think that in any way qualifies McFadden as "the best player in the country," you're fucking crazy.

Posted: **Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:53 am**

Gee, could the fact that McFadden has carried the ball 81 more times than his backup have ANYTHING to do with the fact that his YPC is lower?

The fact that this guy has a backup who sees quality playing time, and yet he's STILL 4th in the nation in rushing is disgusting.

Posted: **Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:06 am**

Mike Hart
Matt Ryan
Andre Woodson

Posted: **Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:24 pm**

I disagree. Writers felt so highly of App St they put them in the top 25 for a week.

In any event, if Hart runs well against Ohio St and Michigan wins that game, that'll erase the App St loss. Fair or not.

Posted: **Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:39 pm**

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:If this was an MVP award, I'd probably put Rice ahead of McFadden. But it's not. It's the nation's best player award.

Actually, it has become the best player on a top 5 team award.

My top 3:

1. Hart
2. Harrell (kills me to say that, but 31-3 is a hell of a differential. taco tceh QBs have always had a lot of TDs, but the lack of INTs makes him elite.)
3. McFadden (distant 3rd)

Posted: **Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:12 pm**

IndyFrisco wrote:My top 3:

1. Hart
2. Harrell (kills me to say that, but 31-3 is a hell of a differential. taco tceh QBs have always had a lot of TDs, but the lack of INTs makes him elite.)
3. McFadden (distant 3rd)

Glad to see another person agreeing that his numbers are too great ignore. I want to vomit when I still hear all the honks for Brennan. Colt has 10 picks in 282 attempts...one in every 28 passes, which roughly works out to 2 or 3 per game. Harrell has 3 picks in 347 attempts...one pick in every 115 or 116 throws. And to have a completion percentage close to 75%...that's sick no matter what offense you're in.

Posted: **Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:32 pm**

Leach has had system qb's with Kingsbury, Cumbie, and the other guy who's name i forget....Harrell is the first to have been highly touted/blue chip out of HS.

the system is a necessary explanation for the gaudy numbers, but probably not a sufficient one.

Posted: **Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:13 pm**

If the Heisman were the same award it was 30, 25, 20, hell, even 15 years ago, I would think Hart would be the favorite. But it's not.

It's no longer enough to be one of the elite skill position players in college football to mount a serious Heisman campaign. Now your team has to be in contention for, if not a national championship, then at least a BCS bid.

That puts Hart in a somewhat precarious position. The two OOC losses pretty much eliminated Michigan from consideration for an at-large BCS bid. It's win the Big Ten or bust for Michigan as far as the BCS is concerned. At a minimum, Michigan needs to run the table up to the tOSU game for Hart to have a legitimate shot at the Heisman.

Ryan gets the benefit of a weak conference and probably doesn't even need his team to run the table for a shot at the Heisman. If BC does run the table, however, he's almost a lock.

Woodson could have a shot if Kentucky wins out, as could, for that matter, Tebow if Florida wins out. McFadden? Great player, but realistically, his best shot was last season. This year Arkansas has fallen into the middle of the pack in the SEC, and that won't be good enough.

Posted: **Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:51 pm**

Terry in Crapchester wrote:If the Heisman were the same award it was 30, 25, 20, hell, even 15 years ago, I would think Hart would be the favorite. But it's not.

It's no longer enough to be one of the elite skill position players in college football to mount a serious Heisman campaign. Now your team has to be in contention for, if not a national championship, then at least a BCS bid.

That puts Hart in a somewhat precarious position. The two OOC losses pretty much eliminated Michigan from consideration for an at-large BCS bid. It's win the Big Ten or bust for Michigan as far as the BCS is concerned. At a minimum, Michigan needs to run the table up to the tOSU game for Hart to have a legitimate shot at the Heisman.

that's not necessarily true. all you need is the media to latch onto your cause, and in michael hart's case, the two losses probably boost his chances as far as the media narrative is concerned. if michigan was undefeated and hart's numbers exactly the same, all we'd hear is about is a better back would break bigger runs, but since they did lose the media has focused on his leadership and how michigan would probably be 0-7 without him.

Posted: **Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:52 pm**

I agree. A loss to a d-1aa is very damaging. If Michigan wins out, the media will run wild with stories about how Michigan could've packed up the season, but Mike Hart fought and brought the team back, carried them on his shoulders, etc.

The poor start could actually work to his advantage.

Posted: **Fri Oct 19, 2007 2:39 am**

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:I agree. A loss to a d-1aa is very damaging. If Michigan wins out, the media will run wild with stories about how Michigan could've packed up the season, but Mike Hart fought and brought the team back, carried them on his shoulders, etc.

The poor start could actually work to his advantage.

Hart had 188 yards on 23 carries with 2 TDs against App State...his second highest rushing total this season. The loss obviously crushed Michigan as a team but Hart had the big TD run that game to put them ahead and it wasn't his play that is blame for them losing. It would be another thing if he had 50 yards on 23 carries in that game.

I will say this, his best days this season have been against Michigan's weakest opponents...215 yards vs. EMU, 188 yards vs. App State and 187 yards vs. ND. His best game in my view was the 153 yards on 44 carries against Penn State...he had the only TD in the game.

Posted: **Fri Oct 19, 2007 2:57 am**

Killian wrote:Matt Ryan

We all just went and had a collective circle jerk, just thinking about it.

Sin,

ESPN

Posted: **Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:14 am**

I know Ryan is on a top 5 team but he's the 37th rated passer in America. He's having a nice year but anyone picking him for the Heisman is crazy.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:Ahh, you're citing ESPN.

NCAA.org, shoalz.

I don't know you're looking at on that site but he is listed 4th...but in yards per game. He has only 822 net yards in and that stat page doesn't allow you to sort by net yards. He's not 4th in the nation in rushing yards.

http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/natlRank.jsp ... h&site=org

Posted: **Sun Oct 21, 2007 7:35 pm**

as of now,Tebow.

Posted: **Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:43 pm**

DiT wrote:as of now,Tebow.

He's definitely in my top 5 now and Harrell is long gone...Hart, Tebow, Dixon, Bradford and Rice in no particular order.

Posted: **Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:26 am**

Q, West Coast Style wrote:If Oregon wins out with DD putting up big numbers despite his top 2 receivers and No. 2 running back lost for the year, I think he'll deserve serious consideration.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/heisman07/index

Posted: **Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:32 am**

interesting

Michigan has won a couple big games for without Hart, right?

top in no order
dixon
mcfadden
daniel
tebow 4th

still think mcfadden, pending these next games will win, he's coming on like a freight train!

Posted: **Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:56 am**

While it doesn't always work out in practice, in theory the Heisman is supposed to go to the best player.

Sorry, but McFadden ain't even the best freaking running back ON HIS OWN TEAM. Kind of nixes the whole "best player" argument.

Posted: **Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:04 am**

I still say Tebow.
even in the Gators losses he's still scoring touchdowns.
Dixon closing hard though.

Posted: **Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:21 am**

1 Dixon
2 McFadden
3 Chase Daniel

Posted: **Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:25 am**

Dinsdale wrote:While it doesn't always work out in practice, in theory the Heisman is supposed to go to the best player.

To take that sentiment a bit further, and without naming names...

Just my opinion, but the Heisman winner should be the cat who has the best chance of making it BIG at the next level. It shouldn't be a freaking MVP popularity contest based on a certain CFB teams success during the current season.

We've all seen how that works out in the NFL. It sucks to see a former Heisman winner not live up to expectations.

So use that consideration when judging who's the best player and most deserves the award.

Chase Daniel? :roll:

Martin Rucker or Chase Coffman, maybe.

Oops, I named names.

T1B

the heisman..

the heisman..