T1B

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3142815

Does this mean Notre Dame is racist, Killian, or was it just a one way argument?



Note: I don't think Willingham's firing was racially motivated.

JayDuck wrote:http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3142815

Does this mean Notre Dame is racist, Killian, or was it just a one way argument?



Note: I don't think Willingham's firing was racially motivated.

No, it just means ND's brass had the balls to jettison that failure a year earlier than Washington. Now we'll get to see what he does with his guys.


And I'm sure if he were fired, some of the headlines would have been "Former ND coach fired at Washington".

Football standards aren't the same at Washington. Maybe they fear controversy, maybe they figure they'll just screw the pooch on the next hire too, or maybe they have a little faith. Maybe some of all three. Ty isn't a bad coach, but he I don't think he is good enough to turn a bad team around. This would be a good job for Turner Gill next year after he completes his Buffalo turnaround. Question is whether they'd be willing to give the job to two black coaches in a row.

Danimal wrote:Ty isn't a bad coach, but he I don't think he is good enough to turn a bad team around.

You have to coach, to be considered "bad".

And they have Jim Mora Jr. waiting and willing for that position.

JayDuck wrote:Willingham Staying at Washington

High five!

Q, West Coast Style wrote:

JayDuck wrote:Willingham Staying at Washington

High five!

How is the WSU-search going? The names I've seen mentioned haven't impressed me much. I'd say Hauck from Montana would be the best of the bunch.

Danimal wrote:

Q, West Coast Style wrote:

JayDuck wrote:Willingham Staying at Washington

High five!

How is the WSU-search going? The names I've seen mentioned haven't impressed me much. I'd say Hauck from Montana would be the best of the bunch.

Wulff from Eastern Washington (almost beat App State in playoff) and Christensen the OC from Mizzou still seem to be the favorites, but now John "THe coaches are screwin it up!" L Smith is in the mix along with the Ball State coach and the Cal D Coordinator. Don't know if Turner Gill is still in the running. Have heard suprsingly little re: "The Return" but I know he was or is being considered.

Danimal wrote:Football standards aren't the same at Washington.

???


Yeah, not like UDub was competing for the conference every single year in very recent memory.

Who's won a championship more recently again?

Oh.

So, if ND truly has higher standards, then they are the most miserable failures on planet earth.


I think the word you were looking for was "expectations," and that's inaccurate, too.

Dinsdale wrote:

Danimal wrote:Football standards aren't the same at Washington.

???


Yeah, not like UDub was competing for the conference every single year in very recent memory.

Who's won a championship more recently again?

Oh.

So, if ND truly has higher standards, then they are the most miserable failures on planet earth.


I think the word you were looking for was "expectations," and that's inaccurate, too.

Bullshit

Washington hired the guy that just got shitcanned at ND, that say says a lot about them compared to ND.

Washington had an era of success. They do not compare to the overall tradition of ND(VERY few do), not by a long shot. ND has their own network and them sucking is national news. Is Washington sucking news? Hell no.

If Washington was as hardcore as ND why is Ty still coach after three unsuccessful years? Answer me that? Why aren't they out breaking the bank for a big name?

Crickets chirping? Ya that is what I thought.

Of course Washington wants to win. They'll eventually make a change towards doing that. But I don't see how you can look at their actions, history, or fans and say they are as serious about it as ND. Otherwise Mora or some other stud would be in Seattle now instead of the mediocrity that is Ty Willingham.

Danimal wrote:Washington hired the guy that just got shitcanned at ND, that say says a lot about them compared to ND.

Washington had an era of success. They do not compare to the overall tradition of ND(VERY few do), not by a long shot. ND has their own network and them sucking is national news. Is Washington sucking news? Hell no.

If Washington was as hardcore as ND why is Ty still coach after three unsuccessful years? Answer me that? Why aren't they out breaking the bank for a big name?

Crickets chirping? Ya that is what I thought.

Bro, not to be rude, but I think those crickets you're talking about are rattling around your head.


Hello?


Who the fuck was UDub going to hire after Weasel?

Hello?


They were freaking suspended when they hired Willingham.


Which big-name coach do you figure they should have approached to offer a job that was obviously going to be watched like a hawk after two suspensions in 10 or 11 years, or whatever it was, a job that exculded TV appearances, and had no possibility of playing any bowl games for a couple of years(and if I remember right, they got docked schollies, too)?


Let's hear that big list of Hall of Freaking Famers that were lining up to take on a suspended program... or is that going to bring on the crickets?


But let's just stick with Danimal logic -- Now that Frontbutt's, rather that Ty's recruits are now NBC's Darlings, and ND just had its worst season because of it... why is Charlie Cheeseburger still there?

I mean, there's "football standards" to uphold, right? Shouldn't they be showing Weis the door after last season's sub"standard" performance?


Ohhhh.... I get it. It made sense when you typed it. Not so much now, eh?


Dude... brain first, keyboard second. Great rule-of-thumb.

Man, BtH, what's with you always being the voice of reason?

Believe the Heupel wrote: Notre Dame certainly has more tradition than UW. I don't think anyone sane would say they didn't-but UW does have a pretty solid foundation for a program and has had success in multiple eras.

Agree 100%. I wasn't trying to make it a major issue, although my "posting style" is prone to such things.

Danimal was just a little too quick to dismiss the "tradition" at UDub, was all. As you pointed out, it's a team with national championships(one kind of questionable), and has had success in multiple eras.


But on the subject -- I think it would be absolutely punk for them to fire Ty. He took on a program in disasterous disarray, which in and of itself should count for something. He had to start recruiting from scratch, and was trying to sell the program to kids who wouldn't be seeing a bowl game for a couple of years at least. He eventually managed to recruit some fairly decent-ranked recruiting classes(for what those rating systems are worth). If he recruited players to play in the system he wants to run, and is now getting some of those players into the system, shouldn't he be given a chance to show what his recruiting combined with his coaching can do?


Now don't get me wrong... I HATE the Fuskies with all of my heart and soul. No one has enjoyed their recent problems more than I have. And I even have a slight beef with Ty, just for taking on such a dubious job. But what kind of message are you sending out if you can him 3 years into what the best-case scenario would be a 5-year rebuilding process?

Danimal mentioned Mora. What would it say about UDub's athletic department if some guy who was publicly campaigning for an occupied position were hired? Think that one through -- so what if Mora doesn't do well? Since at that point, UDub's atletic department/AD would have proven beyond all doubt that they were disloyal pieces of poo, what kind of hire are you going to get after that? After you show yourself as a backstabber, don't look for too many people to show you their back in the future.


It would be one thing if Ty was making egregious coaching errors(sup Joe Gibbs), but that's not the case, to the best of my knowledge. But if you hire a guy to resurrect a program that just took a rapid nosedive straight into the crapper, it's fair, just, and the right thing to do to let him at least get through Phase One of his plan, don'tcha think?


Of course, as a fan of their archrival, I'd love to see them bring in Mike Stoops, Dorrell, or someone of that caliber. Hell, bring in Isiah Thomas, for that matter(he can't be any worse a football coach than Mike Stoops). You know, some proven winner like that.

Charlie Cheeseburger has a job because:

1. ENORMOUS BUYOUT-If he was cheap to get rid of things could be different.
2. He has had one shitty season, the previous two were good, better than expected.
3. He is recruiting incredibly-Ty was an average recruiter

When I said the standards were different I wasn't bagging on Washington, just noting that in the college football pantheon they aren't Notre Dame. Washington has some damn good years, ya they won a championship. But so did Geogia Tech, Clemson,a and Colorado. They aren't Michigan, USC, Ohio State, OU, or Notre Dame.

I never said Washington didn't have tradition. They do. They are a good program with a good history. But we are talking Notre fucking Dame. My 'skers have a lot of tradition but we aren't Notre Dame. Washington football has been plenty big but it has never bordered on religion. The expectations at ND are lofty as fuck-maybe they aren't fair or realistic but they are there nonetheless.

Ya Wash was coming off of some problems but that didn't make ND's reject their only option. It wasn't so much desperation as just a bad decision. If you disagree with that fine. IMO a better hire could've been made.

I wasn't trying to rag on Washington, if it appears so I apologize. I know they take their football seriously but I don't think they have the mania of Notre Dame. Notre Dame for better or worse is a different kind of animal.

Believe the Heupel wrote:

Dinsdale wrote:Man, BtH, what's with you always being the voice of reason?

Medication.

ours or yours

Dinsdale wrote:

Danimal wrote:Crickets chirping? Ya that is what I thought.

Bro, not to be rude, but I think those crickets you're talking about are rattling around your head.

Don't let the folks from KC see this. They'd be all over you for cutting in on their IKYABWAI? action.

Dinsdale wrote:He had to start recruiting from scratch, and was trying to sell the program to kids who wouldn't be seeing a bowl game for a couple of years at least. He eventually managed to recruit some fairly decent-ranked recruiting classes(for what those rating systems are worth). If he recruited players to play in the system he wants to run, and is now getting some of those players into the system, shouldn't he be given a chance to show what his recruiting combined with his coaching can do?

This is one of the major points of contention when it comes to Ty. He doesn't recruit. He doesn't put in the hours that many other coaches do on the recruiting trail. Lockler fell into his lap, but other than that, his recruiting has been awful where ever he has gone. After Brady Quinn's class (which was a very good class, to give Ty credit) Ty signed 17 players. Coming into their senior season, 7 players remained. Out of the total of 17, only 5 players started a game, one of which was 1 start for a trick play. Think about that for a second. 17 players, only 4 started more than one game. His next class (the Ty/Weis mix) was no peach either.

Dinsdale wrote:It would be one thing if Ty was making egregious coaching errors(sup Joe Gibbs), but that's not the case, to the best of my knowledge. But if you hire a guy to resurrect a program that just took a rapid nosedive straight into the crapper, it's fair, just, and the right thing to do to let him at least get through Phase One of his plan, don'tcha think?

He's not making egregious coaching errors, but he's keeping assistants who refuse to make half time adjustments. Watch any number of games that Washington or Notre Dame (when Ty was there) was close at the half and ended up getting their doors blown off. Or games they are winning by 2 scores that they ended up losing. He is a terrible game day coach.

And on this point:

Dinsdale wrote:But let's just stick with Danimal logic -- Now that Frontbutt's, rather that Ty's recruits are now NBC's Darlings, and ND just had its worst season because of it... why is Charlie Cheeseburger still there?

As it has been pointed out, this awful season was following two seasons in which ND qualified for the BCS, something they never did under Ty. And the whole recruit thing, any coach starting the majority of his players in his second season wouldn't be doing very well, unless they also had JUCO's.