T1B

Anyone dealing with putting their folks in assisted living or retirement communities?

My dad is almost 80 and is now suffering from mild dementia / alzheimers.
He's forgetting important stuff, like his luggage, paying bills, etc.

I've broached the subject about going to a nice sunnyvale type facility and he's telling me no - or just hanging up the phone
He's not to the point I can have him declared incompetent, or have power of attorney so that's out for now.
Being that he's in FL and I'm here, it makes it real tough just to check up on him.

Anyone else dealing with this yet?

Over under for tard throwing up ice floe pic - 3 posts

I guess you could threaten to let him live with you in Kansas City. I'm sure if he were faced with that prospect he'd sign off on the nursing home in nothing flat. ;)

I'm not dealing with this yet. But as the only one of my siblings left in the same city as my parents, I'll be reading with some interest.

Yep, my Parents are both 80, still living on their own, but the time is coming soon when that will end. They aren't quite as sharp as they used to be, but still able to be independent and no dementia, just a little forgetfulness now and then.

We're planning on one or both of them (depending) living with my sister in a few years once her kids are off to college, but who knows? Most likely what will happen is they will be forced to over spend what is left of the money they saved in their life on some assisted living place, then be forced to deal with medicare and medicaid from there on out.

We've been looking at buying them a place in an elderly community where they have 24 hour assistance, but haven't really found anything yet they'd want. It's a big step down from what they've got now - total independence - and I'm sure they'd be hating it. Soon there won't be as many choices.

Check your PMs

Scott, I dealt with the same situation with my father a few years back. He suffered from Parkinson's and had multiple additional health issues. He went through a couple of different state run facilities before landing in a group home run by a family friend. The group home ended up being a godsend. The state operated "apartments" were crap however.

pm if you want or need details.

There are many different levels of care.

"Assisted living" and "nursing home" are quite different types of facilities. A lot of assisted living facilities have basically full-sized apartments with full kitchens and staff available to help if needed. They would also probably have a common dining room, but the choice of where to take meals is up to the resident. The first place my in-laws moved to was like this and, to tell you the truth, I was tempted to follow them. Just not quiet old enough yet.

They really enjoyed living there because of the social atmosphere. A lot of people of similar age and interests.

A lot depends on how much they can afford and how much care is required.

Yep, Mikey is spot on. Nursing homes are for those who need full time nursing care of some level and have no money. Assisted living places can be everything from duplexes to condo type apartment buildings, are usually run by private corporations or non profits and can be very nice places compared to nursing homes.

Small care homes are also quite good. I had a great aunt end up in one of those, and it was a family run place with 6 residents so they got very personal care in a residential home setting.

mvscal wrote:Just mail him one of those "I've Fallen And I Can't Get Up" bracelets. He'll be fine.

You can be alone, without ever being alone.

Mister Bushice wrote:Nursing homes are for those who need full time nursing care of some level and have no money.

Nursing homes are damned expensive to the tune of 70+K/year... and these are places for people with "no money?" You really think these people with "no money" carry the insurance requisite for full coverage? If your parents are going to live out their final days at a nursing home, they better be damned prepared to put up their house as collateral. Medicare covers like the 1st 100 days and then that's it.

Furthermore, nursing homes are for people who need skilled care... not "some level." You make it sound like the nurses in these places wipe asses and that's about it.

Good Lord.

Stick to being a horrible stand-up comic, you humorless fuck. I know this is going to be hard to believe, but you actually suck less at comedy when compared to your knowledge of assisted living.

ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2 wrote:

Mister Bushice wrote:Nursing homes are for those who need full time nursing care of some level and have no money.

Nursing homes are damned expensive to the tune of 70+K/year... and these are places for people with "no money?"

The 70k ones are kind of on the level of those motels on COPS where they do the prostitution stings. Even a good nursing home is a shit hole. The ones for people without that kind of money make the places homeless people live seem nice.

You really think these people with "no money" carry the insurance requisite for full coverage? If your parents are going to live out their final days at a nursing home, they better be damned prepared to put up their house as collateral. Medicare covers like the 1st 100 days and then that's it.

Old people in nursing homes don't have insurance, they have Medicare- which as you said, only pays the first 100 days. As I recall, they only pay 100% for the first 20 days after a qualifying hospital stay and I think 70% for the remaining 80 days. Anything beyond that first 100 days is strictly on a cash in advance basis for a month at a time.

Furthermore, nursing homes are for people who need skilled care... not "some level." You make it sound like the nurses in these places wipe asses and that's about it.

The nurses absolutely don't wipe any asses- that's for the Assistants to do... if they feel like it. All the nurses do is hand out medications (which was probably what made AP want to become a nurse 2 or 3 careers ago)

Cuda wrote:All the nurses do is hand out medications (which was probably what made AP want to become a nurse 2 or 3 careers ago)

Whatever happened with that? Is Androgynous Panties making his $100K a year yet and dating multiple hottie nurses simultaneously, as promised?

mvscal wrote:

Cuda wrote:The nurses absolutely don't wipe any asses- that's for the Assistants to do... if they feel like it. All the nurses do is hand out medications (which was probably what made AP want to become a nurse 2 or 3 careers ago)

I thought he was in it for the ass wiping?

He was, initially, but they quickly discovered he was a little too willing...

ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2 wrote:

Mister Bushice wrote:Nursing homes are for those who need full time nursing care of some level and have no money.

Nursing homes are damned expensive to the tune of 70+K/year... and these are places for people with "no money?" You really think these people with "no money" carry the insurance requisite for full coverage? If your parents are going to live out their final days at a nursing home, they better be damned prepared to put up their house as collateral. Medicare covers like the 1st 100 days and then that's it.

My friends grandfather ended up in a nursing home at the age of 89 with congestive heart problems. He could have stayed at home for longer, but he was so damned independent he kept kicking out the visiting nurses until the family forced him to go. It cost 7K a month for a private room, if you have insurance they'll pay first but not for a private room, when that runs out,then you pay. After that there is Medical if you require any level of medical help that you can't live on your own and are approved. He had enough cash for a couple of years, after that ran out Medi-cal would have pick up the cost, and he would have been moved to a multi bed room, which are much cheaper. He never made it that far.

Furthermore, nursing homes are for people who need skilled care... not "some level." You make it sound like the nurses in these places wipe asses and that's about it.

Not true. Some low end nursing homes are for people who can't live on their own but aren't necessarily so sick they need hospitalization, and have no family to take them in, and not enough money to afford much better. My Wife worked at a SNF years ago when she first started out where they took in just about anyone who had no where else to go, as long as they got paid by someone, and they got paid thru insurance, private family pay, and ultimately Medical if the patient needed any level of care, which they always seemed to manage to get. There was a woman living there who was legally blind, but other wise was ok. Medical picked up that tab. Diabetics missing a leg could qualify. The owners of that place milked the system like no other. They'd charge private room rates and put the demented ones in multi bed rooms until the familes came to visit, then they scrambled to get the demented one into a private room before the family arrived. They simply required the families to call first before coming. Quite the scammers.

Cuda wrote: The nurses absolutely don't wipe any asses- that's for the Assistants to do... if they feel like it. All the nurses do is hand out medications

Like hell. They cut back on CNAS LVNS and Aids all the fucking time to save money and let the nurses do everything. It's even worse in the hospitals.

Some of you fukks have parents that are alive?

Wow! Mine died during the Ike administration.

sin,

wolfman

smackaholic wrote:Some of you fukks have parents that are alive?

Wow! Mine died during the Ike administration.

sin,

wolfman

Was that Ike Adams or Ike Jefferson?

I looked at quite a few - most don't have any pricing listed.

This one looked real nice and is close to where dad lives now: http://www.actsretirement.com/com-FL-at.asp

But the "Entrance Fee" is a killer: http://www.actsretirement.com/PDFs/fees ... _sheet.pdf

158K Entrance fee for a 1 bedroom w/ a bathroom + 1,900 a month?

Damn - that's steep

You operate from the misguided assumption my father ever saved a dime.

I'll be picking up the tab for wherever he ends up

Damn, Scott. Thats going to get quite pricey no matter what you do. If he's diagnosed with Alzheimers he might qualify for medical, and you might have a tough decision to make.

The husband of my parents life long friend got Alzheimers at 83, and he was calling 911 at 2am saying the house was on fire. They had to put him in a secured assisted care facility after he walked off one day and they found him a few miles down the road a couple of hours later. He doesn't recognize most people that he's known all his life anymore.

Alzheimers is progressive. He will continue to get worse and at some point your choices will be quite limited.

We wouldn't allow our parents to suffer the indignation
of assisted-living, dementia, and daily pant-loading.



RACK us!

Mister Bushice wrote:Damn, Scott. Thats going to get quite pricey no matter what you do. If he's diagnosed with Alzheimers he might qualify for medical, and you might have a tough decision to make.

The husband of my parents life long friend got Alzheimers at 83, and he was calling 911 at 2am saying the house was on fire. They had to put him in a secured assisted care facility after he walked off one day and they found him a few miles down the road a couple of hours later. He doesn't recognize most people that he's known all his life anymore.

Alzheimers is progressive. He will continue to get worse and at some point your choices will be quite limited.

Dad is a Veteran so he qualifies for the VA homes - if worse comes to worse.
Problem is they have rules against smoking, and possesion of firearms, so he might last there 2 weeks at most.
The state social workers dropped by on him a couple weeks ago, and they said he's coherent enough that there is nothing I could do to move him, if he didn't want to go. My options are really limited right now.

I thought if I found a nice looking place with golf, fishing, etc. - took him to visit, maybe he'd be open to it.
As mentioned though, the "nice" looking place will set me back 158K to get him in the door.
His retirement and SS would be enough to cover the monthly fee.

Check out the rules on people who get Alzheimers. There might be restrictions.

KC Scott wrote:You operate from the misguided assumption my father ever saved a dime.

I'll be picking up the tab for wherever he ends up

Then snap up the $1800/month & figure you're getting over (you are at that price) Big Time

Or you could put him in your spare bedroom & bill him the $1800/month yourself. Look in on him every couple days and he'll get just as good care as he'd get at an assisted living hovel. Look in once-a-fortnight and you'll be giving him the same care as he'd get at a good nursing home. If you want to make it a VA hospital experience, just brick-up the door & windows & call it even.

You'll have the added bonus of collecting both his SS check & medicare payments until he croaks.

KC Scott wrote:
Dad is a Veteran so he qualifies for the VA homes - if worse comes to worse.
Problem is they have rules against smoking, and possesion of firearms, so he might last there 2 weeks at most.

Alzheimers and guns don't mix.

Mikey wrote:

KC Scott wrote:
Dad is a Veteran so he qualifies for the VA homes - if worse comes to worse.
Problem is they have rules against smoking, and possesion of firearms, so he might last there 2 weeks at most.

Alzheimers and guns don't mix.

Actually, they do. If I last long enough to get that dreaded disease, I hope somebody does me a favor and blows my brains out.

It's unfortunate that our fukked up legal system doesn't allow for people to opt to have themselves whacked in a less messy way. Your family is fukked in this situation. They have to either deal with watching you stumble around in a walking coma or risk going to jail because they helped you out of it.

Why is it we won't allow animals to suffer this way, but, we'll do everything possible at enormous expense to see that we/our families suffer for as long as possible?

smackaholic wrote:Why is it we won't allow animals to suffer this way, but, we'll do everything possible at enormous expense to see that we/our families suffer for as long as possible?

What if next year they find a cure for Alzheimer's? How would you feel if you put a loved one down then?

Depends on what my inheritance was.

Have you watched a loved one, or a complete fukking stranger, for that matter, go through it?

You could play what if fukking games all day long. Fact of the matter is, forcing a person to go on existing like this is torture. Torture to the person and his family. And it is putting a big strain on medical care costs.

As for cures, it really don't look like anything is even close. They have things that slow it up a bit, but nothing that even comes close to reversing it.

I am not saying that the gubmint needs to come bust down your door, give you an alzheimer's test and whack you if you fail it. It needs to be a decision made by one person and one person only, the victim. They can put it in a living will and decide who will be the executioner errr executor.

BSmack wrote:

smackaholic wrote:Why is it we won't allow animals to suffer this way, but, we'll do everything possible at enormous expense to see that we/our families suffer for as long as possible?

What if next year they find a cure for Alzheimer's? How would you feel if you put a loved one down then?

Yeah, and what if the following year they found a cure for old age as well?

If they found a cure for dumbfuckery most of this board would be unrecognizable.

War Wagon wrote:Yeah, and what if the following year they found a cure for old age as well?

Who's to say they won't? Old age is a result of cellular breakdown. Stop or reverse cellular breakdown and old age doesn't happen. Scientists are doing amazing things when it comes to cloning cell tissue.

Smackaholic wrote:Have you watched a loved one, or a complete fukking stranger, for that matter, go through it?

I've seen Alzheimer's, but I've also seen worse. Try watching a stroke victim slowly die as their lungs continually fill with fluid. It's like watching someone be waterboarded for months at a time.

BSmack wrote:

Smackaholic wrote:Have you watched a loved one, or a complete fukking stranger, for that matter, go through it?

I've seen Alzheimer's, but I've also seen worse.

I would think it a blessing for anyone related to either of you. Eventually they wouldn’t know who you are.

smackaholic wrote:It's unfortunate that our fukked up legal system doesn't allow for people to opt to have themselves whacked in a less messy way.

That is unfortunate.

Sin,
49 States Not Named Oregon

My mother and her siblings opted to put my grandparents in an "Assisted Living" home. A few months after that my grandfather's health (Alzheimer's, Kidney Failure) degraded to the point where he could no longer stay there. After reviewing the other options, nursing homes, VA hospital, etc.. etc.. the decision was made that since he was so close to death, my parents would house him and my grandmother.

This was May 2006 and pop was close to dying, very close, last rites were administered. The docs didn't seem to think he'd make it through the summer. The old soldier is still with us though. Albeit, it's very tough for my folks.

The general conclusion is that had they not taken him into their house, he'd be dead. For several reasons. One, most important reason, is the level of care and attentiveness to detail is somewhat lacking in one of these homes. I don't believe it's a lack of caring, but it's a matter of logistics. The people who administer medication are given a list, a dose, and times. They have to keep track of lots of folks and cannot be focused on just ONE patient. Mistake happen. Whereas my mother will ask questions when a prescription doesn't look correct, in these places, the people do not have the time to check, double check, stay on hold, and pursue what's best for the "patient". Also, there's something to be said of the psychological impact of being "stored" in one of these homes. To take a man, an officer in the U.S. Army, who struggled and earned his way out of the rought streets of Brooklyn through track, the Army, St. Johns, OCS, etc.. etc.. and tell him he is no longer capable of taking care of himself. And to take a woman who stood by him for half a century and tell her she is no longer able to care for her husband, has to have an impact on the psyche. It's sad and makes one wonder if we're even supposed to live that long, I guess that's one of the costs of "cheating" or delaying death.

Anyway, the impact this has on the caretakers is heavy.

I don't think my parents realized what they were getting into when they took this decision. While they dont' regret it, they have made comments such as "Prisoners in their own home". Newly retired themselves, my parents were hoping to travel a bit more and enjoy the fruits of their own labor for a few years while still young enough to enjoy them. My mothers siblings try to assist but with her sister in NJ and the other two in the area still working, it's mostly a solo job. I don't think they understand fully, that you can't re-educate a man -- once an epitome of manners, decorum and self-discipline -- so that his continuous hocking of lungers wherever he pleases is a direct result of the degenerative effects of alzheimers. His beligerence in having to adhere to a very strict and regimented intake of food and fluids (He's been on dialysis for almost a decade now) causes many of the difficulty. No longer can he simply walk up, grab a glass of water, or munch on some peanuts at will. When confronted he gets outright hateful at times. Dismissing the fact it will kill him, while at the same time saying "I don't want to die".

In recent months, incontinence has set in. No fabric covered surface is safe. He'll fart, or think he's farting, and then you're running for cleaning supplies.

While I've tried to help the above experience is some first hand experience and some just my take on what I've witnessed. I don't know that I can truly appreciate nor convey everything thing that is involved in the decision making, care-taking, and cost both financial and personal involved in this matter.

Despite all the work, stress and strain, I think all parties involved are grateful that pop is here. In his "non-alzheimers" flare ups, he is very expressive of his gratitude. The family feels better that when he does die, he will go, amidst those that love and honor him.

I do hope that I can be as loving and caring as my parents are and have the resources to do what they're doing for both them and my in-laws, though.

Rack the hell outta your parents, Tom for their dedication.

Let's say you could tape a typical day with grampa and go through a time warp back to whenever he was still with it. Then play this for him and say, this is your life in 2007, gramps. I would bet anything he'd say, the fukk it is, throw me under a bus or something. You could then say, but gramps, a couple times a week when your diaper is changed and you were able to sneak some peanuts, you'll be kinda nice. "I don't give a fukk, kill me" would probably be his response. I know it would be mine.

When are we gonna come to the realization that it is cruel to put people through this bullshit. And save the playing god, BS. If we left it all up to god, many of us wouldn't even sniff retirement age.

Racque Poptart, btw

Assisted living places are kind of nice and seem to do fairly well with keeping the elderly occupied and seemingly happy. They tend to be cleaner, have things to do and of course their own places. As someone who regularly goes into both assisted living places and nursing homes. There is a big difference. I've only been to one Nursing home that I could have seen myself staying in, the rest are all shit. The Nurses don't know what the hell they are doing, the aids are even bigger idiots. They usually don't pay attention or let things slide. Sometimes a person will fall in the afternoon or evening and we don't get a call until the middle of the night.
Obviously some of the problems have to do with the fact that these facilities are over run with a ton of old/sick people, most of which have trouble communicating. Even in EMS you get to the point where you sometimes question obvious things because you see it so much and because most of the time its just BS. Of course in most places (hospital, fire/rescue) you have checks and balances that tend to keep you relatively honest. Unfortunately, these places don't get the best minds and most people end up getting burned out fairly quickly.

the good news is, most of the people who live in these places don't really know any better. They could be in Hawaii for all they know, sitting in a Jacuzzi instead of their own shit.

BSmack wrote:I've seen Alzheimer's, but I've also seen worse. Try watching a stroke victim slowly die as their lungs continually fill with fluid. It's like watching someone be waterboarded for months at a time.

My dad had 3 heart attacks and 2 strokes. Unfortunately for him, medicine these days kept him alive for about 2 years longer than he or my family would have wished. He was a human frigging humpty-dumpty. Doctors always putting him back together and shit. The last two years of his life sucked ass. His 2nd stroke left him paralyzed on the left side of his body. About six months before he passed, even though he couldn't talk, he'd tell me with his eyes every damned day that he just wanted it to end. About two months before he passed, he became catatonic and slipped in and out of a coma until he mercifully stopped breathing. There's no shittier feeling in the world than signing off on a DNR for the man who was, and still is, your hero in life.

Good luck, Scotty......

Now that's the kind of Kevnic post I'd like to see more of...

Apparently this guy didn't care for the "being put out to pasture" option.

http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/new ... etail.html

CRANBERRY TOWNSHIP, Pa. -- An elderly man shot and killed his ailing wife in a hospital and then killed himself, Pennsylvania State Police said today.

ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2 wrote:

BSmack wrote:I've seen Alzheimer's, but I've also seen worse. Try watching a stroke victim slowly die as their lungs continually fill with fluid. It's like watching someone be waterboarded for months at a time.

My dad had 3 heart attacks and 2 strokes. Unfortunately for him, medicine these days kept him alive for about 2 years longer than he or my family would have wished. He was a human frigging humpty-dumpty. Doctors always putting him back together and shit. The last two years of his life sucked ass. His 2nd stroke left him paralyzed on the left side of his body. About six months before he passed, even though he couldn't talk, he'd tell me with his eyes every damned day that he just wanted it to end. About two months before he passed, he became catatonic and slipped in and out of a coma until he mercifully stopped breathing. There's no shittier feeling in the world than signing off on a DNR for the man who was, and still is, your hero in life.

Good luck, Scotty......

Wow Ucant, that was a GREAT post.