T1B

buckeye_in_sc wrote:...I come in and out...

buckeye_in_sc wrote:Priorities for IU fan

1) Delusions of grandeur they're still a top 10 program

buckeye_in_sc wrote:Priorities for IU fan

1) Reliving basketball glory years
2) Reliving RMK glory years
3) Hiring deadbeat coaches
4) Not making it past the 2nd round in years
5) Stealing recruits from ILL
6) Basketball
7) Demean Wooden's accomplishments cuz without dickhead Knight, we would be known for absolutely nothing.

that about sums it up...we don't deserve Matta but we got him...IU could have went out and did something but they were too fucking busy giving Mike Davis more time...

I am not so much a basketball smack talker...so I guess I'd better get started...

buckeye_in_sc wrote:Priorities for IU fan

1) Reliving basketball glory years
2) Reliving RMK glory years
3) Hiring deadbeat coaches
4) Not making it past the 2nd round in years
5) Stealing recruits from ILL
6) Basketball

that about sums it up...we don't deserve Matta but we got him...IU could have went out and did something but they were too fucking busy giving Mike Davis more time...

I am not so much a basketball smack talker...so I guess I'd better get started...

Shine wrote:IU is not a top 10 program. We're a top 5 program.

Mace wrote:Indiana is not a top 5/10 team this year but they are one of the top 5 or 6 college basketball jobs/programs in the country in terms of tradition and prestige, imo.....right along with Duke, NC, Kentucky, Kansas, and UCLA.

Mace wrote:

Screw_Michigan wrote:

Shine wrote:IU is not a top 10 program. We're a top 5 program.

Give me a fucking break. Recent performance on the hardwood proves otherwise. Save the Davis excuses, which are obviously still the first few cards in your arsenal. I have respect for the IU program, but to say they are a top 5 program NATIONALLY when they aren't even in the top 3 in the Big 11 is just the most ludicrous thing I've heard in a long time.

Say, which are you most bitter about? Not even being a top 3 Big 11 program, being Purdue's bitch for years to come, or being the #5 team in the state behind Purdue, Notre Dame, Butler, and IUPUI?

Indiana is not a top 5/10 team this year but they are one of the top 5 or 6 college basketball jobs/programs in the country in terms of tradition and prestige, imo.....right along with Duke, NC, Kentucky, Kansas, and UCLA.

King Crimson wrote:Grant Teaff's Baylor teams were legit bowl teams inna day, but Rice was never a "big time" football program. I'll give you Tommy Kramer, but you'd have a lot of work to do to make that case in the last 50 years.

Shine wrote:IU is not a top 10 program. We're a top 5 program and anyone who doesn't acknowledge that FACT knows less about college hoops than I thought.

Degenerate wrote: Then again, you once tried to make the case that Mike Anderson would be a better coach than Nolan Richardson...

War Wagon wrote:

Degenerate wrote: Then again, you once tried to make the case that Mike Anderson would be a better coach than Nolan Richardson...

He's not?

:?

Shine wrote: Wooden cheated

"I hate to say anything that may hurt UCLA, but I can't be quiet when I see what the NCAA is doing (to other coaches) only because (they have) a reputation for giving a second chance to many black athletes other coaches have branded as troublemakers. The NCAA is working night and day trying to get (them), but no one from the NCAA ever questioned me during my four years at UCLA."

That quote comes from none other than Bill Walton, maybe the greatest Bruin of them all, in a 1978 book "Bill Walton: On the Road with the Portland Trail Blazers," which went on to detail how Sam Gilbert, a Los Angeles contractor the feds allege made millions laundering drug money, bought a decade worth of recruits for UCLA.

"It's hard for me to have a proper perspective on financial matters, since I've always had whatever I wanted since I enrolled at UCLA," Walton said.

That is the conundrum of UCLA and college sports as the Bruins go for their 12th NCAA title here Monday against Florida.

On one hand, UCLA has a tradition rich with success, class and glory. Good people, great stories, wonderful memories. On the other is the fact the Bruins eviscerated the rule book like no program before or after, but went largely unpunished by a NCAA that wanted no part of taking down its marquee team.

And the truth is, neither image is wrong. And neither one is right. This is college athletics, yesterday, today and probably forever, no matter how sweet the package, now matter how pretty the bow.

It is how Wooden, universally hailed for his remarkable grace and humility, has wound up seemingly beyond reproach. No matter how dirty his program, today he sells books, speeches and financial planning commercials based on his image of trust and honesty.

The question is always why would UCLA have to cheat, what with its tremendous academics, beautiful campus and proximity to talent. But it is telling that it took Wooden, arguably the greatest coach of all time, 15 seasons to win a national title. Before Gilbert got involved and the talent arrived, the Bruins weren't the best. Which ought to tell you what the competition was up to.

Maybe it is Wooden's class that has kept talk of tainted titles to a minimum. But none of this is a secret in basketball. In the late 1970s, after Wooden retired, the Los Angeles Times did an investigation of Gilbert and the NCAA was forced to sanction UCLA, but never vacated any championships. Then there is Walton's book, which couldn't be more damning.

The NCAA never bothered to investigate UCLA during Wooden's time, part of its history of selective enforcement. During the 1960s and '70s, the organization, run by old white men, was too busy going after small, upstart programs that dared to play too many African-Americans, launching inquiries into Texas Western/UTEP, Western Kentucky, Centenary and Long Beach State.

Apparently a team capturing 10 titles in 12 years, putting together undefeated season after undefeated season, recruiting high school All-Americans from all over the country to sit on the bench, yet never having them transfer or declare hardship wasn't enough for it to dawn on anyone at the NCAA that, gee, maybe they're cheating?

But that is your NCAA.

And that is your college athletics, where corner cutting doesn't make a guy a bad person; it makes him a successful coach.

In Wooden's defense, some, including Walton, have argued that he wasn't aware of Gilbert's largesse, or at most just looked the other way. But other coaches in Southern California at the time, most notably Jerry Tarkanian, laugh at that, claiming Gilbert proudly boasted of his payouts. Tark claims Gilbert once offered to pay one of his Long Beach State stars, Robert Smith, just because he liked the way he played.

"You couldn't be more obvious than Sam," said Tarkanian. "He just laughed about it. Everyone in America knew."

Moreover, in a striking 2004 interview with Basketball Times, Wooden described confronting players Sidney Wicks and Curtis Rowe in 1969 about expensive new clothes he suspected Gilbert had purchased. "Did you get this from Sam Gilbert," he asked. "I don't like this."

"People want to say this is tainted," Wooden told BT, before folding his arms in a rare bit of anger. "I don't care. I don't believe that."

The truth of college athletics is that winning, let alone at the championship level, without rule breaking is nearly impossible. Fans and apologetic media don't want to admit this about the icons of the games, but nothing about this has changed for decades. And it probably never will.

There are no angels in this business, no white hats and black hats as the NCAA would like people to believe with its public relations campaign of a rule book. Everything is a shade of grey. Everything is situational ethics. Everything is pick your poison.

Even the great UCLA legacy. Even the great John Wooden.

There's a reason a team picked by nearly everyone to finish last in their league STILL: gets ESPN coverage at Midnight Madness

is asked to be the first game in the new Lucas Oil Stadium

maxes out on national TV games

lands a top 10 national recruiting class

draws more fans for an intrasquad scrimmage than teams like tO$U do for their home opener, etc.

Again, programs are built and lost over the long haul.

Screw_Michigan wrote:Link to the source of any of that crap?

Wooden either understood everything the mysterious benefactor was doing or looked the other way, which can be argued is a far more serious offense.

This isn't meant to belittle all the good Wooden did on the court and beyond its bleachers. Hardly. His teachings and elegance are unmatched on countless levels, and his words have been used to educate athletes of all ages and skill levels on how best to approach sports and life.

To question his integrity would be irresponsible given all he has offered the game and the many thousands of lives outside it. But to pen his UCLA legacy as one of absolute purity would be just as careless.