T1B

"I had an uncle who was one of the, um, who was part of the first American troops to go into Auschwitz and liberate the concentration camps. And the story in our family is that when he came home he just went up in the attic and he didn't leave the house for six months."
--Barack Obama, Memorial Day speech, Las Cruces, NM.
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-che ... chwit.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In an attempt to burnish his credentials with America's veterans, Barack Obama has frequently talked about his grandfather "who served in Patton's army." He has now added a new episode to his World War II repertoire: the uncle who liberated Auschwitz. Unfortunately, the story shows that the presumptive Democratic nominee has a poor grasp of European history and geography.

The Facts
UPDATED TUESDAY 5:30 P.M.

Auschwitz is located in southern Poland, near the city of Krakow. It was liberated by the Red Army on January 27, 1945. At the time, U.S. armies were still on the western borders of Germany, a thousand miles away, regrouping after the Battle of the Bulge. The Americans had not even crossed the Rhine at this point.

The Obama campaign now says that Obama was referring to his great-uncle on his mother's side, and the camp in question was not Auschwitz, but Ohrdruf, which was part of the Buchenwald camp system in Lower Saxony. Ohrdruf was the first camp to be liberated by the Americans on April 4, 1945, and it was visited a week later by Generals Eisenhower, Patton, and Bradley. Eisenhower later wrote to his wife that he "never dreamed that such cruelty, bestiality and savagery could really exist in this world."


********************
OOOPS!!

Why would he lie when he had the democrat vote in the bag?

This will hurt him. It won't stop him from winning the democrat election but it will leave a mark.

It only hurts him with people who were looking for items to hurt him with.

From what I'm reading online, many Jews* are not happy that anyone is trying to turn this against him, because anyone who helped during the 'Shoah' is a hero. So it doesn't matter if he got the name wrong, as one Jewish man put it 'Auschwitz has become the generic name for all the horror, but every camp was horrible so it doesn't matter if in the retelling the name was gotten wrong, as long as the other facts are true'. I may try to find some of the links about this.

From what I understand, Obama told the story to illustrate the dangers of untreated post traumatic stress disorder in returning veterans. He told the story to say that we need to do better by our returning veterans, and after bullshit like that VA hospital which was in the news for several months for extremely poor facilities and service.................

Anyway, anyone who tries to get on Obama's ass for calling his grandmother's brother 'Uncle' is being completely dishonest. I know that the black community is NOT the only community in which grandparent's siblings are called Uncle and Aunt -- and these were his white relatives. Do you (or did you) call your grandparent's siblings Great-Aunt and Great-Uncle? or just Aunt and Uncle?

Also, word on the street is that not only did his Uncle (or Great-Uncle for the anal) free a sub-camp of Buchenwald, but he was part of the force which was the first Americans to free ANY concentration camp in Europe. So so what if the Russians freed Auschwitz? His Uncle (or Great-Uncle for the anal) was among the first Americans to free ANY.

Bad things happened in the camps. There is NO way that this 'gaffe' is comparable to any of Hillary Clinton's lies, or John McCain's 'what's the difference between a shiite and a sunni can you help me out Joe/I don't know anything about the economy' bullshit. And that last will definitely affect policy more than Obama affectionately calling a relative 'Uncle' like most normal people do, instead of being unnaturally overly formal (for this culture) and thus distant from the very story he's trying to relay.

And people online with a hell of a lot more political acumen than I, agree with me.



*I will be interested in reading what Jews (active and ethnic) who post here, what their opinions on this are, however.

Edit: Jack, mvscal beat you by however many hours, in the political forum: http://www.theoneboard.com/board/viewto ... 10&t=28145" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; I would never have expected mvscal to go down this path. I would never have expected mvscal to flail on something like this. Trying to hang this on Obama's head just doesn't seem up to mvscal's standards. I think that's good for Obama, but bad at the same time because now people are being less careful with the things they try to tear him down with.

I always called my grandparents siblings "aunt" or "uncle". In fact, I don't know anybody who doesn't.

BSmack wrote:I always called my grandparents siblings "aunt" or "uncle". In fact, I don't know anybody who doesn't.

who gives a fuck?

Sirfindafold wrote:

BSmack wrote:I always called my grandparents siblings "aunt" or "uncle". In fact, I don't know anybody who doesn't.

who gives a fuck?

Jack and mvscal do.

(I take it you're not allowed to post doggy danish pictures in the main forum, and that's why you didn't repeat last night's performance in the political forum here?)

Risa wrote:

Sirfindafold wrote:

BSmack wrote:I always called my grandparents siblings "aunt" or "uncle". In fact, I don't know anybody who doesn't.

who gives a fuck?

Jack and mvscal do.

(I take it you're not allowed to post doggy danish pictures in the main forum, and that's why you didn't repeat last night's performance in the political forum here?)

They are. In fact, your favorite poster tarnished one of my archive worthy threads with that particular pic.

Sirfindafold wrote:They are. In fact, your favorite poster tarnished one of my archive worthy threads with that particular pic.

on what planet have you ever created an archive worthy thread? things may change during my bannings, but that ain't one of them.

When Senator Obama said, "Legend has it ...", my mind wandered away to thoughts of Sasquatch.

Just me, maybe.

poptart wrote:When Senator Obama said, "Legend has it ...", my mind wandered away to thoughts of Sasquatch.

Just me, maybe.

Goony goo goo.

sin

Aunt Bunny

poptart wrote:my mind wandered away to thoughts of Sasquatch.

So, on Lincoln's birthday is Obama going to tell us a tale about his great-great-uncle who was involved in the infamous fused bullet fiasco of 1864?

mvscal wrote:It was a complete fabrication from top to bottom.

My faith in humanity and our system of gov't has been shaken to its core. Politicians lie? I ain't buyin' it.

I think you're reaching a bit mvscal. There is a W.C. Payne in the list.


You would know better than I. Military records back then weren't always accurate AND couldn't he have been attached to the 89th from some other unit ?

The "uncle" would also have had to be white, seeing as how combat units weren't integrated until the Korean conflict. Blacvks were assigned to the motor pool, or the kitchen, not combat

Cuda wrote:The "uncle" would also have had to be white, seeing as how combat units weren't integrated until the Korean conflict. Blacvks were assigned to the motor pool, or the kitchen, not combat

Not entirely true during the the last few months of the war.

mvscal wrote:He was going to bring change and hope and change you can believe in...hopefully.

mvscal wrote:
Only in Italy.

Well, maybe it was actually an Italian death camp

mvscal wrote:

Tom In VA wrote:

Cuda wrote:The "uncle" would also have had to be white, seeing as how combat units weren't integrated until the Korean conflict. Blacvks were assigned to the motor pool, or the kitchen, not combat

Not entirely true during the the last few months of the war.

Only in Italy.

Not accurate either according to the history of the 761st Tank Battalion.

There's actually a few more units and some integrated units that saw combat towards the end of the war in Europe. If you're intested I'll let you know who and what some other time.

While I think revisionists like Spike Lee and the South Park people are wrong, I think revisionists neglecting the contribution of black soldiers are wrong too.

Doesn't exactly sound like they liberated any death camps either

During the Battle of the Bulge, German soldiers who had raided American warehouses were reported to have disguised themselves as Americans guarding the checkpoints in order to ambush American soldiers. Patton solved this problem by ordering black soldiers to guard the checkpoints, and gave the order to shoot any white soldiers at the checkpoints

There's also this...

However, like many military officers of the era, Patton expressed his doubts about using black men in combat. On returning to headquarters following the review, he remarked, "They gave a good first impression, but I have no faith in the inherent fighting ability of the race." He only put this sentiment aside and accepted the 761st when he desperately needed all the ground power he could get. Even after the war, Patton was not inclined to reform his perception of black soldiers. In War As I Knew It, he relates the interaction described above, and comments, "Individually they were good soldiers, but I expressed my belief at the time, and have never found the necessity of changing it, that a colored soldier cannot think fast enough to fight in armor."[

Tom In VA wrote:South Park people are wrong

Blasphemer!

mvscal wrote: No record of Charles W. Payne serving in the 89th Division.
drip, drip, drip...

Let me tell you something ass-eyes, don't you be smearing my ancestors that way, or I'll be on you like white on rice in a glass of milk on a paper plate in a snowstorm. I'm gonna put my foot so far up your ass, the water on my knee will quench your thirst.

mvscal wrote:Their contribution in terms of actual fighting was utterly and completely insignificant.

But the contributions existed. To speculate one way or another as to it's significance or lack thereof is an exercise in mental masturbation.

... cue the Eddie Murphy music...

... wookin' pa nub in aaa da wong paces...

Smackie Chan wrote:

Tom In VA wrote:South Park people are wrong

Blasphemer!

I love the show. Stone or Parker was commenting on the use of an all black platoon as a "human shield" in Bigger Longer and Uncut as SOP for the U.S. military.

I'll see if I can dig up the interview some time.

mvscal wrote:

Tom In VA wrote:

mvscal wrote:Their contribution in terms of actual fighting was utterly and completely insignificant.

But the contributions existed. To speculate one way or another as to it's significance or lack thereof is an exercise in mental masturbation.

It isn't neccessary to speculate on their significance. The record speaks for itself.

That's what I said. The record is what the record is.

For Christ's sake, you're talking about a war where dead homeless Brits played significant roles in the success of some operations. The contribution of black soliders, in combat, is what it is and need not be minimized NOR blown out of proportion. To say "We would have lost the war if they hadn't been there .... " is as immaterial as saying "We would have won the war whether they were there or not".


knowhwatimsayin' g ?

mvscal wrote:

Tom In VA wrote:Stone or Parker was commenting on the use of an all black platoon as a "human shield"

That has never been the case.

That's why I said they were wrong.

mvscal wrote:

Tom In VA wrote:To say "We would have lost the war if they hadn't been there .... " is as immaterial as saying "We would have won the war whether they were there or not".

knowhwatimsayin' g ?

I disagree. Not all contributions are equal. You can easily draw conclusions about the significance of a unit from its record.

Take my grandfather's second unit (106th Infantry), for example. They arrived in France on December 1st 1944. They took up their positons in a nice quiet section of the Schnee Eifel in the Ardennes on December 11th. On December 16th, they were blown to pieces by the Fifth Panzer Army. On December 19th, Gramps was on his way to a POW camp. Two weeks in Europe and the division was just gone. Vaporized. Mopped the fuck up. Not exactly the stuff of legend.

Well the Allies were caught with their pants down in the Ardennes that's for sure. Sure, the argument could be made that as a fighting unit some were more significant than others. , But there was strategic significance to every detail - including the presence of a green unit in a specific location that the Germans had to expend time and resources to defeat. Kind of like the bait and switch the Allies did with Patton prior to Normandy, a significant strategic move.

Your pop, did he know Kurt Vonnegut ?

So to bring the story up to date... Onignog didn't have a blacvk uncle in the military at all, and his white uncle was in the navy. Now if that uncle only piloted a russian underwater nuclear tank, we could bet that Onignog would have a tarp-sized panty fetish.

mvscal wrote:No. It was a hodge-podge unit. Gramps joined the National Guard before the war and was with the 138th Regiment which was assigned to the 35th Division for duty in the Aleutian Islands campaign. That unit was deactivated in July of 44 and he was assigned to the 106th. It made him one of the few who have a campaign ribbon from both the Pacific and European theaters.

I'm pretty sure Vonnegut was one of the ASTP momma's boys who got the rug pulled out from under them and stuck in the infantry...for the good of the service and all.

I doubt he was a momma's boy after cleaning up Dresden.

You've probably been all over the net before, just in case, this site is interesting. It's a Belgian site dedicated to the 106th.

http://www.the106thinfantrydivision.be.tt/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


I thought the 10th Mountain did the Aleutian Islands.

War is hell. So is this thread.

mvscal wrote:It was a lot bigger than just one division, but Guadalcanal got all the press. The 138th Regiment (Missouri NG from St. Louis) was detached from its parent unit for that operation.

I don't think the 10th Mountain had been trained by that time. I'm pretty sure they fought in Italy for the most part.

My bad, you're absolutely correct. The reason I raised the 10th Mountain Division was because my buddy's unit the 87th Infantry Regiment was activated and used in the assault on Kiska. After that, it was attached to the 10th and subsequently sent to Italy.

Risa wrote:Edit: Jack, mvscal beat you by however many hours, in the political forum: http://www.theoneboard.com/board/viewto ... 10&t=28145" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; I would never have expected mvscal to go down this path. I would never have expected mvscal to flail on something like this. Trying to hang this on Obama's head just doesn't seem up to mvscal's standards. I think that's good for Obama, but bad at the same time because now people are being less careful with the things they try to tear him down with.

He's a Republican shill, and he's worried about the election. His party has nominated someone who isn't terribly popular with the party's base, the current President (who is popular with the party's base) has a disaster of an Administration, and his party has even been denied its preferred opponent (Hillary). That's why he went down this road.

And it doesn't surprise me in the least.

mvscal wrote:

Terry in Crapchester wrote:He's a Republican shill, and he's worried about the election.

You're projecting again, dumbfuck. I don't give a rat's ass about John McCain. I'm not voting for that cocksucker.

Not yet anyway. Terry just mentioned that McCain is an "anti-catholic" bigot in the Spin Zone. I told him you might just be compelled the lever for McCain now.

I think Obama is confusing grampa stories.

He spent 6 months in the attic.....when he found out who was tapping his little girl.

It's assumed that 'the media' wanted Kerry over Bush.
How'd that work out?

Some of the 'owners' of America will benefit a whole lot if the war efforts are continued and/or expanded.

But oh well, no matter which 'tard is elected the American people are bent over.

mvscal wrote:

Terry in Crapchester wrote:He's a Republican shill, and he's worried about the election.

You're projecting again, dumbfuck. I don't give a rat's ass about John McCain. I'm not voting for that cocksucker.

But, as BSmack pointed out in The Spin Zone, you have not attacked McCain with anywhere near the ferocity or frequency with which you have gone after Obama. Whether you intend it or not (and I personally think you do), your posts leave a clear message that you prefer McCain over Obama.