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Best damn news for the Big East in years.

Of course you are correct PSU. I can't stand the guy.

i have to confess, what is the Big East? what is that "elemental"/atomic unit that makes the Big East the Big East.....because a 16 team league in hoops is kinda weird and football/non-football/Notre Dame is just the same. The WAC tried it.

what is it that non-Big East fan is supposed to line up and see as the quintessence of the Big East?

outside a lot of bunny humping in ESPN about Larry Fitzgerald or Doug Flutie *touting* the Big East's awesome Bowl Record every year (most of the games played before Christmas). Yes, i know West Virginia rolled OU. and that BC is now in the ACC. that ain't the point.

here in "fly-over country" what should we be thinking about the Big East....because to me it seems even less coherent than the short-lived 16 team WAC.

King Crimson wrote:Doug Flutie *touting* the Big East's awesome Bowl Record every year (most of the games played before Christmas). Yes, i know West Virginia rolled OU. and that BC is now in the ACC. that ain't the point.

With all the new Bowl games, most conferences play the majority of their Bowl games in December. The Big East is 3-0 in BCS games since the conference restructured, so it's hard to argue with the success in the biggest Bowl games.

I'll miss Tranghese. He invited USF into the Big East, so I cannot have any bad feelings there. I met him when he came to USF and spoke to our Athletic Department and we had good long conversation about the infancy of the Big East (I followed the league from when I was very young and living in NY).

MuchoBulls wrote: With all the new Bowl games, most conferences play the majority of their Bowl games in December. The Big East is 3-0 in BCS games since the conference restructured, so it's hard to argue with the success in the biggest Bowl games.

Pitt got rolled in the Fiesta Bowl by Utah, no? I guess that's scoreboard (3-0). but seems a little bit of a conditional stat more than decisive proof to me. I guess i'm not a big believer that the Big East is "all that" top to bottom...i could be wrong in the long run and maybe it IS a geographical prejudice based in ignorance on my part, but none of those wins are in the championship game and WVU smoked a "roll over and play dead (and no defense)" largely forgettable 2 loss OU team in the grand scheme of things and that's the conference's best BCS W that i can remember off the top of my head. Colorado and Texas Tech did the same thing. 3-0 there kinda reads like saying the conference is undefeated in the Sweet 16 but never made the Final 4. and keep in mind, this is not a bash the Big East cornfed huskerbrad type stuff...it's just, like, my opinion, man. (jesus, i sound like a combination of M2 trying justify Cal getting rolled by Texas Tech and SEC fan...that's scary...did i really say "top to bottom"...maybe i better re-think this... :D )

that said, i do think you guys will beat Kansas this year.

Is the Big East the long term home of the Bulls? Will they be there in 10 years? 15 years?

I think the Bulls are better than the Big East and should make their move in the next decade. Just MHO.

Mucho,

I'm glad to read you had a good experience with MT. That certainly trumps me...but he has a poor reputation with many others in northeastern collegiate athletics, largely because of earlier decisions.

On a similar note, I've had occasion to speak to Steve Pedersen, and I have found him to be quite affable. NO, Huskers, I'm not entertaining hit bids...

it's just, like, my opinion, man.

Nice.

King Crimson wrote:

MuchoBulls wrote: With all the new Bowl games, most conferences play the majority of their Bowl games in December. The Big East is 3-0 in BCS games since the conference restructured, so it's hard to argue with the success in the biggest Bowl games.

Pitt got rolled in the Fiesta Bowl by Utah, no?

That was the year before USF, Louisville and Cincinnati joined. The 3-0 in BCS games comes from the 2005, 2006, and 2007 season with the current league configuration.

Left Seater wrote:Is the Big East the long term home of the Bulls? Will they be there in 10 years? 15 years?

I think the Bulls are better than the Big East and should make their move in the next decade. Just MHO.

Where would USF go?

If there is a split amongst current league members, then maybe something would happen. The only 2 logical choices for USF would be the ACC (FSU and Miami would not let that happen) or the SEC (no chance).

I think a new conference with the other geographical outcasts of the Big East. Louisville, Cincy and USF would make a great start. Get WVU and it is even better. Then you grab a few from CUSA especially Central Florida. Heck in a couple years FAU or FIU will be where you guys were just a few years ago.

Left Seater wrote:I think a new conference with the other geographical outcasts of the Big East. Louisville, Cincy and USF would make a great start. Get WVU and it is even better. Then you grab a few from CUSA especially Central Florida. Heck in a couple years FAU or FIU will be where you guys were just a few years ago.

And that's supposed to be better? The only geographic situations that would work best for us would be the ACC or SEC. I don't mind the long travel we have now since I am from the Northeast. If the Big East decides to split, then look for the 9th football playing member to be Memphis since they will bring a strong basketball program with them. As long as the Big East maintains BCS membership they current football members will stay as is.

You take those schools and the Big East has no BCS membership. Further if you bring in Memphis you now have a 17 team conference for basketball and olympic sports. How do you make that work? Do you bring in another member to make it 18?

Plus in 10 years there will be a number of strong teams around you guys that would make a very strong conference.

Left Seater wrote:You take those schools and the Big East has no BCS membership. Further if you bring in Memphis you now have a 17 team conference for basketball and olympic sports. How do you make that work? Do you bring in another member to make it 18?

Plus in 10 years there will be a number of strong teams around you guys that would make a very strong conference.

Lefty,

My post was under the assumption that the non football playing schools eventually split from the football playing schools, thus having 8 all sports members. That's where Memphis would come in. Even if there was a split betwen the football and non-football member the BCS bid would still stay in tact.

Hard to predict the future, especially in regard to where FAU and FIU go, but I would rather USF be in the best position possible, which I feel would be the Big East.

I was unaware that there was talk or even a whisper of the football schools breaking away. I thought the guys like Syracuse, UConn, and Rutgers wouldn't walk away from Georgetown, Providence and Villanova, etc.

I would agree if you guys (football members) broke away that would be the best thing.

The rumor of a split has been there since the realignment took affect in 2005. I don't think anything will happen anytime soon because of the great TV deal that is in place for the next handful of years, but the new Commissioner might not see things the same way.

Unless some teams are going to move-up to 1A football like UConn did I think the best thing in the long term would be for those nonfootball-playing programs to have their own con. I think each side would be able to get a solid basketball tv-deal of their own. Then the Big East could focus on becoming full-fledged all-sport conference.

Responding to a couple of points in this thread, in no particular order . . .

1. I'm with Mucho on this one. I think the Big East is the best option for USF, unless the SEC, ACC or both implode, and somebody decides to form a new conference and wants USF onboard. Not much likelihood of that happening, especially with Florida, Florida State and Miami in the mix.

2. The notion that FAU and FIU -- the latter arguably the weakest team in 1-A -- bring more to the table as conference mates than UConn, Pitt, Rutgers and Syracuse is positively Schmickian. They'd reduce travel expenses for USF, but they wouldn't do anything for other conference members. And while I don't have a crystal ball, I don't foresee that changing in ten years, either. Florida has a lot of talent in-state, but so do Texas, Ohio and California, and all have a significant number of non-BCS programs in-state. With Florida now at seven 1-A programs, I suspect it'll be much the same for them. At least, I haven't seen anything yet that would allow me to differentiate Florida from the others in that regard. UCF could move up to the BCS level -- if the Big East wants them, that is -- but I suspect that would be the limit.

3. Basketball is a logistical problem for carving out a conference from certain Big East members along with other regional schools. Any new conference would have to have at least six members who have played in the same conference for at least five years, or lose an automatic NCAA bid for five years.

4. West Virginia would never leave the Big East for a new conference without Pitt. Pitt is the most important game on their schedule, hands down. For that matter, right now Syracuse is probably the #3 most important team on West Virginia's schedule (after Pitt and Maryland), although that could change in the future if West Virginia ever renews acquaintances with either Penn State or Virginia Tech, or if Cincinnati and/or Louisville develop into a more significant rivalry for West Virginia.

5. The rumors of a split on football/non-football grounds have been around at least since 2005, as Mucho says. A split on football/non-football grounds is at least two years away for basketball reasons (see above), however. More recently, I've also heard rumors of possibly trimming the conference down to 12 teams. If that happens, the football members stay together of necessity, and for my money, they'd also keep Georgetown, Villanova, St. John's and Notre Dame. That allows the Big East to retain some traditional basketball rivalries (e.g., Georgetown-Syracuse), as well as three long-time conference members who represent major metropolitan areas. It also allows for expansion on the football end, and keeps the door open to the possibility of ND eventually joining the Big East for football, although I don't think that'll happen anytime in the foreseeable future.

6. Of the non-football schools, for my money Villanova is the most likely to make the jump up to 1-A football. But don't hold your breath on that.

Terry in Crapchester wrote:2. The notion that FAU and FIU -- the latter arguably the weakest team in 1-A -- bring more to the table as conference mates than UConn, Pitt, Rutgers and Syracuse is positively Schmickian. They'd reduce travel expenses for USF, but they wouldn't do anything for other conference members. And while I don't have a crystal ball, I don't foresee that changing in ten years, either. Florida has a lot of talent in-state, but so do Texas, Ohio and California, and all have a significant number of non-BCS programs in-state. With Florida now at seven 1-A programs, I suspect it'll be much the same for them. At least, I haven't seen anything yet that would allow me to differentiate Florida from the others in that regard. UCF could move up to the BCS level -- if the Big East wants them, that is -- but I suspect that would be the limit.

I think the Big East sees that a Conference Championship game is not going to be worthwhile, so they would basically look at one program to get to 9.

My guess would be Memphis. Yes, they suck in football right now, but they wouldn't take too long to build with membership to the Big East. They would bring in a very good basketball program. Most importantly, the Big East would get the Liberty Bowl tie in if it added Memphis.

MuchoBulls wrote:I think the Big East sees that a Conference Championship game is not going to be worthwhile, so they would basically look at one program to get to 9.

I suspect the only way you'd ever see the Big East consider a conference championship game is with ND as a member. Going to 12 teams, as things currently stand, would require diluting the conference too much.

Going to 9 teams would balance the conference schedules for every team. But the Big East can accomplish this only if it splits along football/non-football lines, or drops a few members, or adds a football-only member for its 9th football school.

The latter option is somewhat problematic, as most C-USA schools would be committing suicide on their basketball programs if they went to the Big East as a football-only member. ECU could get away with it out of necessity (the six school rule once again), but only for two years. The same goes for Memphis under the six school rule, but given that Memphis basically is C-USA basketball these days, the conference would be more accommodating to them. UCF or Marshall, either of whom would probably be preferable to ECU from the Big East's standpoint, would get dropped from C-USA in a heartbeat if they ever did this.

And the football-only options outside current C-USA membership are extremely limited. Temple had that role for 14 seasons; it's unlikely the Big East would have dropped them had the conference been happy with their football program. From what I hear, Navy is desirable to the Big East in this capacity, given their connection to ND. The problem is that, while there would be no adverse consequences on Navy's basketball team, it's not necessarily a good deal for Navy. As it is, Navy has a pretty sweet deal -- a guaranteed bowl bid if they're bowl-eligible every year. Joining the Big East means a scheduling upgrade plus competing with the rest of the conference for a bowl bid. Also, with annual OOC matchups vs. Army, Air Force and Notre Dame, a full conference schedule would limit Navy to only one open date per season.

My guess would be Memphis. Yes, they suck in football right now, but they wouldn't take too long to build with membership to the Big East. They would bring in a very good basketball program. Most importantly, the Big East would get the Liberty Bowl tie in if it added Memphis.

The Big East probably has a full bowl allotment right now, and I don't see an additional bowl even if they add one member. But the Liberty Bowl is a more prestigious tie-in than many of their current tie-ins, and probably would get the #3 Big East team.

UCF would also be a decent addition, albeit maybe not for the school you root for. If the Big East does scheduling right (admittedly something that can't be taken for granted), each of the other teams would get a road game in Florida every year, which undoubtedly would help the conference when it comes to recruiting.

Terry in Crapchester wrote:The Big East probably has a full bowl allotment right now, and I don't see an additional bowl even if they add one member. But the Liberty Bowl is a more prestigious tie-in than many of their current tie-ins, and probably would get the #3 Big East team.

UCF would also be a decent addition, albeit maybe not for the school you root for. If the Big East does scheduling right (admittedly something that can't be taken for granted), each of the other teams would get a road game in Florida every year, which undoubtedly would help the conference when it comes to recruiting.

The Big East has enough bowls right now, but I know they want to get out of the International Bowl (Toronto) ASAP. Getting the Liberty Bowl by taking Memphis would put that scenario into motion. I'd hope that once the 4 year Gator/Sun deal ends after the 2009 season that Gator Bowl will go back exclusively to the Big East. Imagine how much more the Gator Bowl would have benefitted from taking USF last season and the Sun Bowl would have benefitted by taking Texas Tech. The Meineke Bowl (vs. ACC) is a good bowl and the PapaJohn's.com Bowl is now stronger with the Big East vs. SEC matchup. I am not too keen on the St. Petersburg Bowl (vs. C-USA) since they may take USF even if we win 9-10 games to get the attendance spike and because of the opposition the Big East team would be facing.

UCF has enough to worry about with the black cloud looming over their program due to the death of Ereck Pancher and the apparent cover up by O'Leary. They don't have the basketball program Memphis does and that would hurt them.

You mention Navy and I'd be all for them, but I do agree with you that their current deal is pretty sweet and going to a conference might not be in their best interest.

MuchoBulls wrote:The Big East has enough bowls right now, but I know they want to get out of the International Bowl (Toronto) ASAP. Getting the Liberty Bowl by taking Memphis would put that scenario into motion. I'd hope that once the 4 year Gator/Sun deal ends after the 2009 season that Gator Bowl will go back exclusively to the Big East. Imagine how much more the Gator Bowl would have benefitted from taking USF last season and the Sun Bowl would have benefitted by taking Texas Tech. The Meineke Bowl (vs. ACC) is a good bowl and the PapaJohn's.com Bowl is now stronger with the Big East vs. SEC matchup. I am not too keen on the St. Petersburg Bowl (vs. C-USA) since they may take USF even if we win 9-10 games to get the attendance spike and because of the opposition the Big East team would be facing.

If the Big East gets the Liberty Bowl bid, they'd face either the C-USA champion or the SEC #6 team. More likely the latter, if Memphis were the impetus for the change in that bowl bid. If that's the case, the most likely bowl bid for the Big East to lose would be the PapaJohns.com Bowl, since that would also be a Big East-SEC matchup. If the Liberty Bowl were to keep the C-USA champion, the St. Petersburg Bowl would make the most sense as the bowl to leave the Big East package.

I don't think the Big East gets out of the International Bowl without pulling the plug on the game entirely. Cold-weather bowl sites only work if both tie-ins have something of a geographic relationship with the bowl site. The only other conference which even arguably could replace the Big East in the International Bowl would be the Big Ten, but there's already one Big Ten-MAC bowl matchup (Motor City Bowl), not to mention a slew of regular-season OOC matchups between those two conferences. Syracuse would be a natural for the International Bowl, but unfortunately for the International Bowl and the rest of the Big East, Syracuse has been in a bit of a tailspin the last two seasons.

UCF has enough to worry about with the black cloud looming over their program due to the death of Ereck Pancher and the apparent cover up by O'Leary.

Not really familiar with this.

They don't have the basketball program Memphis does and that would hurt them.

Agreed, and they'd certainly be cellar-dwellers in the Big East in the early going. But if they're looking to upgrade their program, a move to the Big East would help over time. My post actually concerned the possibility of UCF as a football-only member, in which case C-USA probably would drop UCF from the rest of the conference. That also would hurt the basketball program, perhaps moreso in the long run than biting off more than they can chew in the Big East would.

Terry in Crapchester wrote:

UCF has enough to worry about with the black cloud looming over their program due to the death of Ereck Pancher and the apparent cover up by O'Leary.

Not really familiar with this.

They don't have the basketball program Memphis does and that would hurt them.

Agreed, and they'd certainly be cellar-dwellers in the Big East in the early going. But if they're looking to upgrade their program, a move to the Big East would help over time. My post actually concerned the possibility of UCF as a football-only member, in which case C-USA probably would drop UCF from the rest of the conference. That also would hurt the basketball program, perhaps moreso in the long run than biting off more than they can chew in the Big East would.

UCF had a player pass away during a workout some months back. 4 unidentified players came forth in a newspaper article in the Orlando Sentinel to dispute what actually went on in the workout. The players all claimed that O'Leary was dogging Plancher during the workouts while he showed distress during the drills. They went as far as to claim that O'Leary singled out Plancher for lack of hustle, then cursed him out right before he passed out and eventually passed away. The players also mentioned that O'Leary was at the workout and coaching them, which he was not supposed to be based on NCAA rules. I have some pretty good knowledge of the situation because Ereck Plancher's cousin plays for USF and he has told some of the coaches what is going on, so it would be hard to think he would be fabricating the story.

I doubt UCF would join as a football only member since they finally have gotten all their sports into the same conference. Conversely, I don't see the Big East inviting a football only member as well.

MuchoBulls wrote:
UCF had a player pass away during a workout some months back. 4 unidentified players came forth in a newspaper article in the Orlando Sentinel to dispute what actually went on in the workout. The players all claimed that O'Leary was dogging Plancher during the workouts while he showed distress during the drills. They went as far as to claim that O'Leary singled out Plancher for lack of hustle, then cursed him out right before he passed out and eventually passed away. The players also mentioned that O'Leary was at the workout and coaching them, which he was not supposed to be based on NCAA rules. I have some pretty good knowledge of the situation because Ereck Plancher's cousin plays for USF and he has told some of the coaches what is going on, so it would be hard to think he would be fabricating the story.

god, that's truly horrible. if true, there aren't words for it.

MuchoBulls wrote:UCF had a player pass away during a workout some months back. 4 unidentified players came forth in a newspaper article in the Orlando Sentinel to dispute what actually went on in the workout. The players all claimed that O'Leary was dogging Plancher during the workouts while he showed distress during the drills. They went as far as to claim that O'Leary singled out Plancher for lack of hustle, then cursed him out right before he passed out and eventually passed away. The players also mentioned that O'Leary was at the workout and coaching them, which he was not supposed to be based on NCAA rules. I have some pretty good knowledge of the situation because Ereck Plancher's cousin plays for USF and he has told some of the coaches what is going on, so it would be hard to think he would be fabricating the story.

Taking this at face value, if true it's not exactly surprising when it comes to O'Leary. I heard (again, rumors on the interwebs) that while he was the coach at Georgia Tech, he had a twist on the old "bulldog" drill in practice, in that he would send several players, sometimes from completely different directions, at the bulldog at the same time. Apparently, several players were injured during this drill.

If the Plancher story is true, I think UCF needs to get rid of him.

I doubt UCF would join as a football only member since they finally have gotten all their sports into the same conference. Conversely, I don't see the Big East inviting a football only member as well.

The Big East had at least one football-only member from the time it began playing football in '91 up through the '04 season. It's only been the last three seasons without one or more football-only members.

When the last round of realignment occurred, the Big East discussed the possibility of having one football-only member to give the conference a balanced football schedule. UCF, perhaps in part because of its conference alignment at the time, was considered a leading candidate for that slot until C-USA offered full membership.

Unless the Big East either splits along football/non-football lines (which won't happen for at least another two years, due to NCAA basketball tournament rules) or drops 2-4 non-football members from the basketball conference, the only way to expand the football conference would be to add a football-only member. On the other side of the coin, certain schools that have been mentioned as potential members probably would only be considered as football-only members. Navy, for example, would have a very tough time competing in the Big East in basketball unless another David Robinson-type situation were to emerge.

Terry in Crapchester wrote:The Big East had at least one football-only member from the time it began playing football in '91 up through the '04 season. It's only been the last three seasons without one or more football-only members.

When the last round of realignment occurred, the Big East discussed the possibility of having one football-only member to give the conference a balanced football schedule. UCF, perhaps in part because of its conference alignment at the time, was considered a leading candidate for that slot until C-USA offered full membership.

Unless the Big East either splits along football/non-football lines (which won't happen for at least another two years, due to NCAA basketball tournament rules) or drops 2-4 non-football members from the basketball conference, the only way to expand the football conference would be to add a football-only member. On the other side of the coin, certain schools that have been mentioned as potential members probably would only be considered as football-only members. Navy, for example, would have a very tough time competing in the Big East in basketball unless another David Robinson-type situation were to emerge.

I remember those discussions and some were very interesting, especially the Army/Navy talk.

The "split" is not coming anytime soon, if ever. I was at one of our donor events last night and our AD pretty much stated that the league is in such a great financial position because of the new TV contract that there is no reason for a split, nor is a split likely.