T1B

Defend our culture, defend our honour...

DEFEND OUR MOTHER!

Your mother is a flag?

Prolly got them with small arms fire.

"It's in the interests of the United States to extend a helping hand to Georgia. Russia is fighting a war with us in our own territory," Saakashvili said in an interview with CNN.



Yeah...American help is on it's way, dear ally...





You suckers sold your souls for a bag full of magic beans. And now you think your "daddy" will come and bail you out?



Enjoy the fireworks display, you jizz-buckets.

Yesterday...



...and today.

Much like Tim Duncan, my boys rebound well. You'll see.

More like the Russians are have had enough of Mini-Me thumping his chest, bringing in American arms and singing the freedom song. I'm wondering what took so long.

Just another big fat dud in the 'global democratic revolution'.

From what I've read, lots of money, some US helicopters, Czech rocket launchers and some Israeli equipment that isn't specified. Most of their equipment is antiquated soviet stuff. I can only guess that NATO is under the influence of American foreign policy - which in it's embryonic form comes from 1992, it's an anachronism that's survived to this day. Completely bizarre.

40 tanks, huh?

Yeah...sure...

They've just sunk the Black Sea fleet aswell - it's on yahoo news.

Entire divisions swallowed up in the Georgian "quagmire".

Who knew that the Georgians were French?

Georgia says its forces have withdrawn from the separatist region of South Ossetia to positions at or south of those held when hostilities began.

Meanwhile, Georgia's President Mikhail Saakashvili called for an immediate ceasefire to stop what he described as an "annihilation" of his country's democracy.

Georgia vs. Russia in a war of attrition.


GEORGIA
Total personnel: 26,900
Main battle tanks (T-72): 82
Armoured personnel carriers: 139
Combat aircraft (Su-25): Seven
Heavy artillery pieces (including Grad rocket launchers): 95

RUSSIA
Total personnel: 641,000
Main battle tanks (various): 6,717
Armoured personnel carriers: 6,388
Combat aircraft (various): 1,206
Heavy artillery pieces (various): 7,550
Source: Jane's Sentinel Country Risk Assessments


Looks like Russia can afford the loss of 40 tanks and 10 planes more than Georgia can.

I think this one depends solely on how much Russia wants Georgian territree.

If they want it, it's theirs. It's just a matter of cost. Looks like Russia has a lot more to gamble with than Georgia.

mvscal wrote:Yes, things are going swimmingly. Clockwork precision no doubt...

Georgia 'pulls out of S Ossetia'
"Georgia has said its troops have pulled out of the breakaway region of South Ossetia and that Russian forces are in control of its capital, Tskhinvali."



Here's the heroic "war president", Saakashvili, issuing battle plans from his command center...

Martyred, I wonder if mvscal was in the Keele and Wilson area when he read that report..

JaysFan wrote:Martyred, I wonder if mvscal was in the Keele and Wilson area when he read that report..

~~~ shudder ~~~

Probably having a few vodkas with some Polish revisionists on Roncesvalles.

Wow, are you a member of the American Enterprise Institute? Dramatic scenario.

How about the Russians just break the handle on the field marshals slingshot and leave him to play in his sandbox?

mvscal wrote:

Tom In VA wrote:I think this one depends solely on how much Russia wants Georgian territree.

Actually it has more to do with how much the Georgians will make them pay for it and from the looks of things the past three days, it won't come cheap. In any event, the Russian economy can't support a war of attrition. Quite frankly, their army can't either. Logistics has historically been a glaring Russian weakness and it remains so today.

South Ossetia is worth more to Georgia than to Russia. Its only value is that it offers excellent defensive terrain against approach from Russia. Of course Russia wants it to keep their pimp hand strong.

Perhaps if we were to equip the Georgians with top of the line anti-tank missile systems....

True, strictly looking at numbers here might be a static analysis of the situation. Factor in all what you said, umm .... we'll see. Russia does have a strong pimp hand though. No matter how much of their ordnance and equipment in Jane's list is rotting away somewhere.

However wouldn't providing Georgia with material support be a continuation of Bush's reckless strategy ?

Black Gold
Texas Tea

The Amish shall inherit the earth.

Looks like "Pappy" McCain is ready to jump in. If somebody can find him a used A4E somewhere in mothballs he might just be able to save the day all by himself.

mvscal wrote:I'm really not sure what the fuck the Georgians thought they were doing.

They gambled and lost... it was just a bad bluff. A really, really bad bluff. The fact they did it while Putin and Bush were both in Beijing is hilarious... as if Big Brother was going to stop Russia from putting the hammer down.

As for Bushs' current saber rattling, it's all about that oil pipeline, so that's to be expected. No wonder he wanted Georgia to be allowed to join NATO, and no wonder Russia doesn't want that presence in their own backyard.

I've supported Bush all these years, but I really have to wonder if he didn't grant tacit or even explicit permission for this dipshit move. If he did, this blunderous mess is on him.

Well, for what it's worth there were a thousand US troops in Georgia last month on a joint exercise:

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/ ... 9920080715

which the Russians accused them of preparatory measures for this.

And another British exercise scheduled for next month - which has been cancelled:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080809/wl ... inmilitary

Dr_Phibes wrote:Well, for what it's worth there were a thousand US troops in Georgia last month on a joint exercise:

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a fucking duck.

So much for Dubya trying to "reach out" with palm fronds during the dying embers of this administration.

This was a premeditated incursion, plain as day, and it backfired.

Dumbfucks.

Bush needs to STFU at this point and just let it play out. The last motherfucking thing we need right now is a standoff, verbal or otherwise, with Russia.

This is the sort of thing John Bolton predicted would start happening when Chimpy insisted on recognizing an independent Kosovo (what exactly was out national interest in that?) and expanding NATO eastward (why, because the western euros were too bloated, weak & corrupt to hold up their end of the deal and new blood was needed?) So now, NATO is going to... lie back and enjoy having Putin beat off right in their faces and say "you know you want to suck it", seeing as how it's enevitable and all.

heh heh!

mvscal wrote:Coordination and communication does not happen spontaneously.

To a completely outrageous degree, you really need to get these things sorted out if you're going to run a proper alliance. The lack of communication between such close allies is shocking - completely amatuerish.

mvscal wrote: They did have 2,000 troops in Iraq, so it stands to reason that we would be training with them. Coordination and communication does not happen spontaneously.

C'mon, you don't really believe that was the reason?

This was nothing more than Bush trying to toss his lapdog, Georgia's "democratically elected" president, a bone in the way of South Ossetia, and hoping they'd get away with it.

It didn't work.

And now Bush is in default position, feigning outrage, when he had to have been complicit in authorizing this in the first place.

Holy Fuck!

I know we want to protect our vital oil interests, but going into this dogs backyard and trying to steal is beyond audacious. It's reckless.

Just guessing on my part, but I'll say that the American rationale behind this lies with the Soviet/Afghan conflict myth.

A protracted unconventional war that will drain the country. The only problems I see with this are:

Georgians aren't muslims. They're not nuts.

Saakashvili is a thug and a cunt, he's mumbled the usual crap - freedom, democracy, supply and demand, the invisible hand etc - but no-ones life has actually got any better since the [insert colour coded revolution name here].
Other than that, he doesn't really stand for anything, just joining NATO - and I can't see the Georgian people growing big, fuck off beards and living the guerrilla life in the mountains because they can't be in NATO.

=

Latest update: Russia stopped their offensive in Georgia. Some time after this, Chimpy demanded that they stop their offensive in Georgia.

mvscal wrote:

War Wagon wrote:

mvscal wrote: They did have 2,000 troops in Iraq, so it stands to reason that we would be training with them. Coordination and communication does not happen spontaneously.

C'mon, you don't really believe that was the reason?

Yes, I do. Having personally been through numerous instances of pre-deployment train ups, I know what it goes into it. New allies or even National Guard units, for that matter, have to be brought up to speed before they can be deployed to an active theater of operations. This is critical when you are working with a relatively new ally with whom there aren't any well established protocols.

So, no, I don't believe we gave the green light for this operation especially considering that 2,000 of their best trained troops were deployed in Iraq. They aren't equipped to challenge a numerically superior foe nor are they properly trained for the task.

But consider the intellect of our CiC.

mvscal wrote: So, no, I don't believe we gave the green light for this operation especially considering that 2,000 of their best trained troops were deployed in Iraq. They aren't equipped to challenge a numerically superior foe nor are they properly trained for the task.

Hmmm.... good point.

What seemed so obvious on the surface at first glance... maybe not so much. So what we're left with is that the Georgian president really fucked himself and what's left of his country over, and now he's crying for somebody else to come save his ass.

mvscal wrote:
So, no, I don't believe we gave the green light for this operation especially considering that 2,000 of their best trained troops were deployed in Iraq. They aren't equipped to challenge a numerically superior foe nor are they properly trained for the task.

No-one will ever know for certain, but I find it impossible to believe that there is no form of communication, no information sharing on something like this - that's completely ridiculous.

It might well have been that whatever projections were written down on paper, or whatever ideas went through the minds of the higher ups as to what was supposed to happen, had little resemblance to what took place, wether in Georgian execution or Russian reaction. What were the American full-time trainers doing while the Georgian army was assembling on the border? You'd think they would have noticed as it was a weekday, they weren't off for the weekend.

Having been through numorous pre-deployment train ups, you'd know that an operation like that doesn't develop overnight and it doesn't escape the notice of the ranks.

Nobody listens to him anymore.

Yes, but he listens to other people.

But they didn't attack the Russians, they were razing population centres - they had adequate air power for that.

Again:

what was supposed to happen, had little resemblance to what took place, wether in Georgian execution or Russian reaction.

Remember, you are talking about the same people who completely disbanded the Iraqi Army upon taking the country.