T1B

I think so. Now, don't get me wrong...it's not like the Big East receives SEC-level hype and I'm still talking about underrated. On the contrary. It routinely gets trashed by people all around the country and this puzzles me a bit. Sure, heavy hitters Va Tech and Miami are gone but the newcomers -- Louisville, South Florida, UCONN, Cincinnati are real salty, competitive teams which have filled some of those voids, albeit in a different kind of way. I tend to think it's more impressive to have a lot of good teams than a couple of dominant teams. Rutgers has pulled itself from irrelevance into a team to be feared because they do it right with a sharp focus on defense and running the ball. Obviously a DickRod-led WVU carried much of the league's success on its back with some huge bowl wins, and he's now gone but it remains to be seen how WVU will be without him. I've definitely got to think they'll be knocked down a rung, but it's evident he built a foundation for success there and the program should remain at a relevant level. Pitt is...well, Pitt. They bring a pretty steady diet of mediocrity but rarely an embarrassment to the conference, and do have a nice bit of history. Syracuse has been the conference's worst team for a number of years now. But...this isn't your typical doormat. It's a doormat with some rich history and definitely has the capability of bouncing back.

The conference has only 8 teams, but it's a benefit. None of that hokey conference championship crap. Like the Pac 10, it's guaranteed to produce a legitimate conference champion since everybody plays everybody.

Oh, and 2-1 vs the SEC in BCS games.

All in all, not too shabby. I say cut the Big East some slack.

Thanks for a very interesting topic Mgo. Obviously, I have been a very big defender of the Big East since USF joined in 2005. I think the reason why the league doesn't get more mention, or credit, is due to only have 8 football playing programs. I think the Big East is just like any other league; very good team at the top, real crap team at the bottom, and some strong teams in the middle. The only difference is that there is a lesser number of these.

While I would fully support the league looking to add one more football playing member, I would like for them to choose wisely. Tranghese is spot on in his proclamation that there are no viable options that would help the league (unless ND came aboard, but that isn't happening) and there is not going to be an all sports program that is added while the league is under its current membership.

The Big East still has a ways to go to get to where the SEC is, but I think you can make a very solid case that the league as a whole has been better than the ACC since Vt, BC, and Miami left. Having won each BCS game since the 2005 season has helped as well.

I would say that the Big East probably is underrated, at least among the denizens of this board. And as Mucho pointed out, in an amazing bit of irony the Big East actually has been a better overall conference than the ACC since '05.

Among the powers that be in college football, I don't think the conference is quite as underrated as it is on this board. There was talk, at one time, of the Big East losing its automatic BCS bid, but that talk has gone by the wayside recently. I don't think you'll here much about it in the future unless the conference takes a significant downturn for an extended period of time.

Obviously a DickRod-led WVU carried much of the league's success on its back with some huge bowl wins, and he's now gone but it remains to be seen how WVU will be without him. I've definitely got to think they'll be knocked down a rung, but it's evident he built a foundation for success there and the program should remain at a relevant level.

The foundation was already built. He just improved on it. To me, Rodriguez = Kirk Ferentz. I know, you're laughing but that's because right now he's the "girl with the curl". Kinda like Ferentz was a few years ago. The difference was RichRod was coaching in an easier conference and he got himself a couple of BCS wins. But still, we're talking about a couple of guys that had great 3-4 year runs.

I'm going to let you all in on a little secret about RichRod....

1.He's considered a great coach because he's been successful the last few years. Ferentz was being talked by many as one of the top 2-3 coaches in the country. But now that he's struggled he sucks and forgot how to coach.

2.He has very few wins over good teams. When I say good, I'm talking about Top 15-20 teams. The majority of his wins have come across mediocre teams.

3.He is 33-5 in 3 years at a Big East school. Ferentz went 31-7 from 2002-2004 at a Big-10 school.

4.Sorry for posting facts on this board. I'll stick to copying ESPN and basing my arguments on pure homerism from now on. Again, my apologies.

5.Ferentz sucks and RichRod is totally awesome cuz RichRod is winning now and Ferentz has proven his 3 year run was just a blip on the radar whereas RichRod has proven he's not just a 3 year wonder cuz I said so.

You forgot #6 - Coaches come from around the country to learn DickRod's systems. Nobody does for Kirk Ferentz.

The biggest difference I think between DickRod and Ferentz is that once DickRod got things rolling he never took that dive into .500 or below. Consistency, and beyond. He seemed to be progressing whereas Ferentz has dropped off. That's not to say Ferentz can't get back there, but if you're honestly arguing there hasn't been a dropoff in the last few years you're freaking insane.

You forgot #6 - Coaches come from around the country to learn DickRod's systems. Nobody does for Kirk Ferentz.

Yes, but NFL teams come calling for Ferentz every year. Many people in New England think he'll be Belichik's replacement someday because Belichik will recommend him for the job. Most likely will be between Charlie, Romeo, and Kirk as long as Bill doesn't get banned by the league for cheating. Ask NFL coaches what they think of Kirk and what they think of DickRod. I'll guarantee you they'd speak more highly of Kirk than DickRod.

The biggest difference I think between DickRod and Ferentz is that once DickRod got things rolling he never took that dive into .500 or below. Consistency, and beyond. He seemed to be progressing whereas Ferentz has dropped off. That's not to say Ferentz can't get back there, but if you're honestly arguing there hasn't been a dropoff in the last few years you're freaking insane.

Oh, I know it's dropped off. Such is life at a 2nd tier Big-10 school. It's a lot easier to sustain success in the Big Least. The conference has improved, but it's still clearly the 6th best conference. And remember, the first few years WVU was in the Big Least, that conference was barely above 1-AA in terms of talent. There are no Ohio State's and Michigan's in the Big East.

TheJON wrote:Yes, but NFL teams come calling for Ferentz every year.

Totally irrelevant in a discussion about the college game. DickRod doesn't run a style that would be at all suited for the NFL. He could win BCS titles for the next 3 years in a row and still wouldn't get a sniff at an NFL job because of that.

Oh, I know it's dropped off. Such is life at a 2nd tier Big-10 school. It's a lot easier to sustain success in the Big Least. The conference has improved, but it's still clearly the 6th best conference. And remember, the first few years WVU was in the Big Least, that conference was barely above 1-AA in terms of talent. There are no Ohio State's and Michigan's in the Big East.

What do you want me to say, JON? That I think Ferentz is a better coach? I don't think he is. Michigan could've went knocking on Ferentz's door if they thought he was so great. They didn't. They knocked on RichRod's.

What do you want me to say, JON? That I think Ferentz is a better coach? I don't think he is. Michigan could've went knocking on Ferentz's door if they thought he was so great. They didn't. They knocked on RichRod's.

No, I'm not saying I want you to say he's a better coach. I'm not even attempting to do that. I'm saying that DickRod is getting more love than he's deserved right now. Like I said, he's the "girl with the curl" right now.

And Mgo, you may wanna get your facts straight.......Michigan DID come calling for Kirk and according to numorous sources he was originally the guy they wanted but he turned it down because of 2 reasons....1.Michigan wouldn't match his salary at Iowa and 2.His son is on the Iowa team. They did everything outside of the media only the media in Iowa and that Mgoblog (or whatever it's called) caught wind of it. A lot of people think Kirk was their #1 choice but turned it down like he does NFL jobs every year because of the money he's getting at Iowa. He makes about double the amount Lloyd Carr was getting.

Did Michigan make an official offer to Ferentz? I knew there were rumors, but I didn't realize an offer was actually made. Not saying you're wrong, just don't remember that. Perhaps some of the Michigan guys can clarify.

Depends on your definition of "official". Like I said, it was all done behind the scenes. Both parties will deny everything if asked. Well, Kirk didn't deny it......he just refused to answer any questions. If you read through everything and understand how coaching searches are conducted it's not too hard to put 2 and 2 together.

Basically from what I understand is Michigan's people gave Kirk an informal salary quote and his people came back with a counter offer. Michigan either declined or came back with a counter that Ferentz' agent didn't like and then discussions halted.

The truth is, no one knows exactly what went on. You have to put everything together and understand how coaching searches are conducted to really figure it out.

What I know is Kirk mysteriously went missing for a couple of weeks during the Michigan hiring process. Word got out on Mgoblog that Michigan had made an offer and was rejected by Ferentz. It was kind of like having your friend ask a girl out back in middle school for you. That's how coaching searches begin. Michigan's people asked Ferentz' people if he has any interest. Ferentz then figureatively writes on a piece of paper the word "yes" or "no". Then they come back to his people with a salary offer if he is interested and he writes back on that paper either a "go fuck yourself" or a counter offer. If their salary offer is within Kirk's ballpark, then they'll formally meet to interview for the job. But, according to sources, it wasn't so they went no further.

One other thing that was reported here in Iowa at least was Ferentz wanted the job without actually having to go there to interview. Reason being, he didn't want word to get out that he was interviewing at Michigan because if he didn't get the job he'd have to explain to his fan base why he went to interview at a rival Big-10 school. Seemed like Michigan didn't like that so much. Michigan didn't want word about him turning down the job because it looks bad that Iowa's coach turned them down and Ferentz didn't want word to get out that he was pursuing another Big-10 school. If Les Myles turns them down it's not so bad, because he's the LSU coach. Doesn't look bad on the program.

I'll tell you this.....here in Des Moines we have maybe the biggest Michigan fan in the world on sports talk radio (though he's recently moved to Political Radio and does a sports show on TV once a week) and he has ties to the Michigan program and he says that without a doubt Kirk Ferentz was Michigan's #1 choice and the administration never wanted Les Myles. He loves the RichRod hire, but says that he was maybe their 3rd or 4th choice. He's a flat out UM homer so I'll take his word on it.

MuchoBulls wrote:While I would fully support the league looking to add one more football playing member, I would like for them to choose wisely. Tranghese is spot on in his proclamation that there are no viable options that would help the league (unless ND came aboard, but that isn't happening) and there is not going to be an all sports program that is added while the league is under its current membership.

That, in a nutshell, is the Big East's dilemma. Adding one more football-playing member would give the conference an even number of conference games. But aside from ND (which won't join the Big East for football) there isn't a program that will help the conference. Added to that is the impact an all-sports member would have on the basketball conference, as well as the dilemma for potential football-only members: do you take the BCS revenue in exchange for being relegated to a lesser basketball conference than the one you're in?

Memphis, perhaps, could avoid that because they are the premier basketball program in C-USA.

Terry in Crapchester wrote:do you take the BCS revenue in exchange for being relegated to a lesser basketball conference than the one you're in?

East Carolina was rumored to be all over that type of scenario.

if the quality of football in the Big East was played in a low population density region like the MWC, then it would be underrated. as is: you have ESPN and even Doug Flutie talking about how great the Big East is 24/7 (yes, i know BC is in the ACC now) and all the lower bowl victories and the "we're not really playing for anything" BCS stat is nice: but as long as the Big East is getting ESPN love, i wouldn't call it "underrated".

maybe it's better than the ACC. it's not better than the Big 10, Pac, SEC, or Big XII. I think most CFB fans rank it behind those conferences which is about where it belongs.

King Crimson wrote:if the quality of football in the Big East was played in a low population density region like the MWC, then it would be underrated. as is: you have ESPN and even Doug Flutie talking about how great the Big East is 24/7 (yes, i know BC is in the ACC now) and all the lower bowl victories and the "we're not really playing for anything" BCS stat is nice: but as long as the Big East is getting ESPN love, i wouldn't call it "underrated".

We must be watching two different ESPN's because from what I've seen the station can't get the SEC's dick out of its mouth long enough to spend any appreciable amount of time talking about another conference. I would expect a BC homer in Flutie to give praise to the conference. Nothing to see there. Is the network as a whole gushing over the Big East? I'm not seeing it.

The conference has 7 fairly quality programs right now and 1 cellar dweller. We can argue the finer points of "quality" -- as it's open to interpretation -- but we're talking all but one team as having competitive, bowl-quality programs. And the conference on the whole has shown pretty well in the bowls since realignment.

NO

they are a poor conference. they go 2 deep, WVU and USF. The rest are below average to mediocre teams. The conference is getting so bad, that the bottom dwellers in BCS conference will be scheduling cinccy,pitt,uconn,rutgers, etc as cream puff wins.

Hell, the MAC is/has getting BCS wins, by scheduling bad Bigeast teams.


OU should absolutely crush Cinccy. USF vs Kansas is the tru test of the conference. USF gets beat at home, the conference is worse than we all thought. take USF and WVU out, and no one in Bigeast could finish top2 in MWC or WAC, possibly not even top3.

they desperately need to add at least 2 teams.

Louisville is and will always be a flavor of the decade team. KEntucky can't compete but a couple times a decade and they have the conference(SEC) recruiting for them.

taking a couple of Conference USA teams would do nothing. they need 2 big programs(or former big programs) to move in.Desperately.

they found the teams to fill for basketball, might have to make a big play for a couple of teams for football.

MuchoBulls wrote:

Terry in Crapchester wrote:do you take the BCS revenue in exchange for being relegated to a lesser basketball conference than the one you're in?

East Carolina was rumored to be all over that type of scenario.

EC is playing good ball under Skip Holtz, they and Central Florida could make solid additions.

The big thing the East has to start doing is holding on to the quality coaches.

re: michigan and ferentz, michigan didn't want ferentz; sailboat bill wanted ferentz because he's white and boring and would guide michigan to perpetual 8-4, 9-3 records for the next 10-15 years. from what i understand of the search, jon's description of things is accurate. dickrod, on the other hand, was not michigan's 3rd or 4th choice. he wasn't available when the search began and basically fell in their lap. so perhaps he was the 4th guy to be offered the job/want the job/tentatively have the job [schiano], but if all were options from the word go he'd probably be the 3rd or 4th choice because we're still talking about sailboat bill.

MuchoBulls wrote:

Terry in Crapchester wrote:do you take the BCS revenue in exchange for being relegated to a lesser basketball conference than the one you're in?

East Carolina was rumored to be all over that type of scenario.

I heard that too. And from East Carolina's perspective, it makes a little sense. They're the only non-BCS FBS program in-state, so jumping up to the Big East, even in a football-only role, closes that gap. OTOH, they don't have the basketball tradition to match up with the Tobacco Road schools, so a drop-off in basketball doesn't hurt them all that much.

The problem for East Carolina is that they bring little to the table to the Big East other than a warm body. If the Big East is going to add a team or two from C-USA, Memphis, UCF or even possibly Marshall would make more sense from their perspective.

Adelpiero wrote:Hell, the MAC is/has getting BCS wins, by scheduling bad Bigeast teams.

Aside from Bowling Green beating Pitt last weekend (hang that one on Wanny), what MAC teams have beaten Big East teams in the regular season in the past 3 years? Not calling bullshit on you per se, but I honestly don't remember any others.

they desperately need to add at least 2 teams.

Louisville is and will always be a flavor of the decade team. KEntucky can't compete but a couple times a decade and they have the conference(SEC) recruiting for them.

taking a couple of Conference USA teams would do nothing. they need 2 big programs(or former big programs) to move in.Desperately.

Therein lies the crux of the dilemma: who do they add?

I'm not saying that you'll never see any more realignment in college football, but the days of the ground-shaking moves are over, or nearly so.

Let's look at the possibilities.

1. Notre Dame. The last remaining major independent in college football. And if ND ever does decide to join a conference for football, the Big East might have a good shot for the following reasons: (a) ND already plays in the Big East in most sports other than football; and (b) there's a history of bad blood between ND and the Big Ten, such that much of ND's fanbase would never want ND to go there. But ND will hold onto its football independence as long as it can, I don't think that comes as a surprise to anyone by now.

2. Penn State. Geographically speaking, Penn State would be a better fit in the Big East than in the Big Ten, and joining the Big East would allow Penn State to resume the rivalries they lost when they joined the Big Ten (Pitt and West Virginia, and to a lesser extent, Syracuse). But Penn State's relationship with the Big East mirrors, on a smaller scale, ND's relationship with the Big Ten. Also, the Big Ten is more than just an athletic conference, it's also a loose consortium of academic institutions, and Penn State would lose (I believe) its share of the CIC money if it left the Big Ten. And they would be leaving the Big Ten for what they consider an inferior athletic conference. I don't think Penn State even considers this unless/until (a) JoePa retires/dies and (b) ND is already onboard with the Big East; and even then it wouldn't be a given by any stretch of the imagination.

3. One of the former Big East teams. Looking at these options:

a. I don't think there's any way that Virginia Tech comes back. They were all over the move to the ACC, which they considered a better fit for themselves. Short of being drummed out of the ACC (and that's not likely to happen anytime soon), I don't think they'd ever consider coming back to the Big East.

b. Miami is a somewhat more likely candidate for return than Virginia Tech, but not by much. They're now in the same conference with the school they consider their principal rival (Florida State). And Florida State, having won the power struggle with the Tobacco Road schools over expansion, is unlikely to leave the ACC either. I think the only way Miami would consider a return to the Big East is either as a package deal with Florida State, or if Florida State were to leave for the Meatgrinder, and the Meatgrinder showed no interest in Miami.

c. From the perspective of each former member of the Big East, I think Boston College would be the most likely to return. They're geographic orphans in the ACC, and they didn't get placed in the same division as the only other current ACC member (Miami) with whom they have anything approaching a significant rivalry. But BC left the Big East on especially sour terms. Recall that they signed a pledge to remain in the Big East before they left (Virginia Tech and Miami did not). I don't think they come back into the Big East unless the Big East is willing to forgive and forget a lot.

4. Other members of BCS conferences. As you alluded, it might be possible to lure a member of another conference that's something of an outlier within that conference and within or near the Big East's geographic footprint, such as Maryland (ACC) or Kentucky (SEC). But neither of those schools would bring to the table what you think the Big East needs. In fact, they'd be mid-pack programs in football at best, and would bring much more to the table in basketball than in football.

Maybe there's some other possibility I'm missing, but I don't think so.

Honestly

if they bring in Penn st and Notre Dame, that would the be perfect combo. both make sense, and i'm sure Big East would bend over for ND and PSU. allowing them huge % of the money to come.

you would have to sell the conferences soul for them, but it would be worth it.

they need to make that kind of big move.

Penn State and Notre Dame are too good academically for that conference. No offense, but those are some of the worst schools amongst BCS conferences. Not all of them, but a lot of them.

Penn State isn't leaving the Big-10 anyways. Notre Dame, you can't pay them enough to join a conference. Why would they? They're competing for national titles every year. Conference titles are meaningless when you win national titles every single year. Just ask Killian.

TheJON wrote:Penn State and Notre Dame are too good academically for that conference. No offense, but those are some of the worst schools amongst BCS conferences. Not all of them, but a lot of them.

Pitt, Syracuse, Rutgers, UConn, and even Cincinnati are all very good-to-decent academic schools. And ND already plays in the Big East in most sports other than football.

Let's ease up on the academics routine. Some of PSU's best athletic talent these days bears no resemblance to some of PSU's best academic talent. Academics is no reason to sneer at the Big East.

Terry in Crapchester wrote:Pitt, Syracuse, Rutgers, UConn, and even Cincinnati are all very good-to-decent academic schools. And ND already plays in the Big East in most sports other than football.

I am a little surprised that you left USF off of the list. USF is a rising academic institution that is a Tier 1 research University, receiving more funding than all state universities other than UF. That gap is also narrowing in terms of research dollars.

MuchoBulls wrote:

Terry in Crapchester wrote:Pitt, Syracuse, Rutgers, UConn, and even Cincinnati are all very good-to-decent academic schools. And ND already plays in the Big East in most sports other than football.

I am a little surprised that you left USF off of the list. USF is a rising academic institution that is a Tier 1 research University, receiving more funding than all state universities other than UF. That gap is also narrowing in terms of research dollars.

I wasn't aware of that.

I know the Big East has helped certain of its members improve their reputation academically. Miami and BC, in particular, left the Big East with better academic reputations than they entered with. I suspect the same will be true for the more recent members.

Academic argument = bitch

I still can't believe Northwestern has more conference titles than Penn State since the Nittany Lions joined the conference. Who'da thunk that back in 1993 (or was it 1992)? Hard to believe they've only got 1 title since joining the league and very little success.

I enjoy playing Penn State in football so I don't want them to leave the conference. That's why I want ND to join the Big-10 because I'd love to play them. Always wanted to see an Iowa-ND matchup. The only way that will happen is in a bowl game or if they joined the conference. It would make sense for Iowa to want to play ND in the non-conference but not for ND to play Iowa.....at least not a home and home agreement and there's no way Iowa would accept anything else.

I'd love to see the Big-10 comprised of 2 6 team divisions....

West
Iowa
Wisconsin
Minnesota
Purdue
Notre Dame
Indiana

East
Michigan
Ohio State
Penn State
Michigan State
Illinois
Northwestern

TheJON wrote:West
Iowa
Wisconsin
Minnesota
Purdue
Notre Dame
Indiana

Cool. Wisconsin would own that division.

Yep. As long as you keep hiring Iowa guys to coach your team, you should be pretty good.

TheJON wrote:Yep. As long as you keep hiring Iowa guys to coach your team, you should be pretty good.

Last time I checked he's a Florida guy, who happens to have ties to some programs in the midwest.

Seriously though, Coach Leavitt has spoken very highly of Coacy Fry on numerous occaisions.

Mucho,

Was responding to Goober in reference to Wisconsin.

TheJON wrote:Mucho,

Was responding to Goober in reference to Wisconsin.

My fault. I shouldn't have gone right through to page 2.

I think it would be funny if Ferentz got fired or left because then we'd go up to Madison and steal Goober's coach away.

Let's see.....similar type of program. Double the salary. He's an alum/former coach at Iowa. He's got a Hawkeye tattoo on his ankle. Gee, I wonder if he'd take our offer!!

TheJON wrote:I think it would be funny if Ferentz got fired or left because then we'd go up to Madison and steal Goober's coach away.

Let's see.....similar type of program. Double the salary. He's an alum/former coach at Iowa. He's got a Hawkeye tattoo on his ankle. Gee, I wonder if he'd take our offer!!

Bielema would leave that little slice of heaven known as Madison, Wisconsin to move to the shithole known as Iowa City? No, and I doubt that Iowa’s going to pony up $3 million a year for their next coach. Keep dreaming and wallowing in your mediocrity, tool.

MuchoBulls wrote:

TheJON wrote:Yep. As long as you keep hiring Iowa guys to coach your team, you should be pretty good.

Last time I checked he's a Florida guy, who happens to have ties to some programs in the midwest.

Seriously though, Coach Leavitt has spoken very highly of Coacy Fry on numerous occaisions.

He has some major ties to Missouri and KST

Terry in Crapchester wrote:


2. Penn State. Geographically speaking, Penn State would be a better fit in the Big East than in the Big Ten, and joining the Big East would allow Penn State to resume the rivalries they lost when they joined the Big Ten (Pitt and West Virginia, and to a lesser extent, Syracuse) - and Coastal Carolina. But Penn State's relationship with the Big East mirrors, on a smaller scale, ND's relationship with the Big Ten. Also, the Big Ten is more than just an athletic conference, it's also a loose consortium of academic institutions, and Penn State would lose (I believe) its share of the CIC money if it left the Big Ten. And they would be leaving the Big Ten for what they consider an inferior athletic conference. I don't think Penn State even considers this unless/until (a) JoePa retires/dies and (b) ND is already onboard with the Big East; and even then it wouldn't be a given by any stretch of the imagination.

Obviously, I'm having a hard time getting over that match-up.

Goober McTuber wrote:

TheJON wrote:I think it would be funny if Ferentz got fired or left because then we'd go up to Madison and steal Goober's coach away.

Let's see.....similar type of program. Double the salary. He's an alum/former coach at Iowa. He's got a Hawkeye tattoo on his ankle. Gee, I wonder if he'd take our offer!!

Bielema would leave that little slice of heaven known as Madison, Wisconsin to move to the shithole known as Iowa City? No, and I doubt that Iowa’s going to pony up $3 million a year for their next coach. Keep dreaming and wallowing in your mediocrity, tool.

By mediocrity, do you mean the same amount of success as Wisconsin's having except for a longer period of time?????

Bielema would leave in a split second. Why do you say we wouldn't pony up $3 million for him. You clearly don't know our boosters and the amount of cash our athletic department has at their disposal. It took us all of maybe 5 minutes to fund a $90 renovation for the football stadium and a $30 million renovation of the basketball stadium. What makes you think we couldn't pony up $3 million for a coach?

Moose Koegel, CC's AD, was a team captain for Paterno. Playing CC was a favor to him, nothing more. Myself, I'd prefer games against 1-AA were prohibited, or short of that, I wish PSU's AD would choose to benefit other PA schools with such matchups.