T1B

I even think mvscal is with me on this one. If you subscibe to an organized religious belief you are either lying to yourself or you are a complete idiot. It's 2008 people. No need for talking snakes or boats that hold all the world's biodiversity. Organized religion had its place in the development of civilizations but it's reached the point of diminishing returns. It's time to move on. As a people.

Q, West Coast Style wrote:It's time to move on.

Well I guess you've explained the "why" now fill in the rest.

To whom/what/where/how ?

Tom In VA wrote:
To whom/what/where/how ?

Science would be a good place to start

remember, knowledge is your friend, not your enemy

So in effect, "Science" is your organized religion ?

mvscal wrote:...he is an utterly insignificant squirt of protoplasm on a utterly unremarkable speck of dust among uncounted trillions of other specks of dust.

Do you regularly drive your friends and family to suicide?

It must really suck to know you in real life.

Q wrote:talking snakes or boats that hold all the world's biodiversity.

It wasn't a talking snake and the Ark didn't hold all the world's biodiversity.

poptart wrote:
It wasn't a talking snake and the Ark didn't hold all the world's biodiversity.

according to YOUR beliefs...

lots of thumpers think you're full of shit, not to mention all of the other religions that KNOW their beliefs are the truth

it's a crazy mixed-up world we live in

That's true, Felix.

Everyone can make their own determination as to truth.


Christians have disagreements on Noah's Ark, Genesis 3, and a VERY long list of other things, too.
In my estimation, these are not important issues.

Those who gathered in Mark's upper room to wait for the promised Holy Spirit were not fighting over silly issues.
They were instead unified in the truth which they knew.
The important truth being, Jesus is the Christ, the one who has finally destroyed the devastation that satan has brought to mankind.

poptart wrote:The important truth being, Jesus is the Christ, the one who has finally destroyed the devastation that satan has brought to mankind.

so when I die, do you think this is how it will go down....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FM8oeN-4LDo

lol

Science Bless that was funny Felix.

I had to change the link to the subtitled version because the original seems to have disappeared....in any event, Edward Current is a very funny guy that loves to harpoon religions in general


here's two more my favorites

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqJpZOljjG8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM1pHYiIOT0

mvscal wrote:As long as Man has an ego, he is going to have a difficult time accepting the fact that he is an utterly insignificant squirt of protoplasm on a utterly unremarkable speck of dust among uncounted trillions of other specks of dust.

I guess that depends on what you mean by ego...

Is belief or non belief in God a matter of psychology.....

Edging
God
Out

EGO

So we should be asking where does the ego come from and why....

That sounds pretty simple....

scientific phenomena.....

Interesting...

I was just commenting on the simple logic you used to gain your view on life.

Psychology is interesting....

Don't you think...

So relative and open to interpretation... errr I mean so clear and concise....

mvscal wrote:It is a function of self-awareness

Fat lot of good that has done anyone.

mvscal wrote: Your ridiculous attempt to explain scientific phenomena with the 3,000 year old musings of bronze age goat herders is duly noted.

Que ?

Tom In VA wrote: Que ?

Quebec? Yep, just keep driving east, past Kingston, you'll cross a bridge, folks will be speaking French...

Oh yeah, and the women will hold up their thumb and index fingers "closely" and giggle if you mention the words Atomic Punk.

Tom In VA wrote:

mvscal wrote:It is a function of self-awareness

Fat lot of good that has done anyone.

now you're just trolling

you know as well as I do that self-awareness provides human beings with accountability and conscientiousness, which in turn helps to create a sense of moral responsibility

ever heard of John Locke?

You should read some of his writings...mind blowing stuff

Ok. I was trolling .... sort of.

Ego gets people into trouble. Remember, "Pride goeth before the fall".

Locke also acknowledged that revelation and reason both exist. Reason to temper revelation. I suppose we could expound upon all that if you wish.

So I'll temper my "troll" with Ego, like revelation, - unchecked with God given ability to reason - has done us a fat lot of good.

I still don't see how Science conflicts with the existence of God. I can see how organizaed religion has attempted to dispute science.

Personally, if you think Science should replace organized religion, I can subscribe to that. Afterall, in my opinion, it's simply US putting neat names to things God created and discovering the way things God created works.

I would put forth the notion that Lockes notion of "revelation" might even inspire scientists to examine certain things and form a hypothesis and that "reason" is applied via the scientific method in order to temper and validate it.

Felix wrote:so when I die, do you think this is how it will go down....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FM8oeN-4LDo

I think it'll be about 3% like that.

The Bible shows us that hell was created by God for ... satan.

In your own case, because you've been told about the problem of mankind, and you've been told about the Christ, and you rejected it and went about following darkness instead, you then follow that darkness to where it goes.
And that end place God has prepared for satan is hell.

Of course you could change your fate at any moment, bring yourself to light, and lift yourself from the inevitable failure of your current life.

poptart wrote:
the inevitable failure of your current life.

I love when thumpers insist that unless I adhere to their particular set of beliefs that somehow my life is a failure....

and people want to know why I despise this type "holier than thou" attitude....

but insofar as the video goes, yeah your probably right...I'm sure god will find a kinder and more gentle way to cast me into the tortureous fires of eternal damnation....

after all, he loves me

The failure is this, Felix ...

God told man that in the day he left Him he would surely die.
Adam and Eve didn't die physically that die.
They did die spiritually that day.
Mankind became spiritually captured by satan that day.

This is why we see people doing all the atrocious and unimaginable things they do ... every day.

Jesus spoke to the Pharisees, who were SUPER PIOUS in their day.
Outstanding people.
And He said they came from ... their father, the devil. (John 8:44)

Imagine that.

It doesn't matter what kind of a life you think you lead or what sort of level you attain.
The end is failure, inevitably.

You have surely died.

poptart wrote: You have surely died.

Hardly, I live my life to the fullest because I know my time here on earth is limited, which gives me a sense of urgency and a sense of purpose-when I die, all that will remain of me is what I've left for those that follow me....I adhere to what has been termed the Atheists creed* which consists of the following:

1) I believe in being honest and compassionate towards others not because I’m told to or of being punished if I don’t, but because I believe it’s the right thing to do.

2) I believe it’s wrong to discriminate against people based on race, gender, religion, or sexual orientation.

3) I believe everyone has the right to freedom of speech and freedom of thought.

4) I believe adults have the responsibility to treat their children fairly and to teach them a sense of right and wrong. To instill in them, honesty and compassion for their fellow man.

5) I will not believe in doctrines based on blind faith. I will strive to keep an open mind and make deductions and conclusions based on evidence.

6) I will not be dogmatic or unwilling to change my mind if new evidence contradicts my basic understanding.

7) I will not fill in gaps of knowledge with guesswork, speculation, or blind belief. I will not be afraid to say “I don’t know”.

I will oppose laws and policies based on religious dogma especially when they infringe on a persons right to freedom of speech and freedom of thought.

9) I will stand up against bigotry and injustice and I will fight intolerance.

10) I will strive to bring people together through common humanity and to end division over religious differences.

*With thanks to my austere Aussie friend

Felix wrote:

poptart wrote: You have surely died.

Hardly, I live my life to the fullest because I know my time here on earth is limited, which gives me a sense of urgency and a sense of purpose-when I die, all that will remain of me is what I've left for those that follow me....I adhere to what has been termed the Atheists creed* which consists of the following:

1) I believe in being honest and compassionate towards others not because I’m told to or of being punished if I don’t, but because I believe it’s the right thing to do.

2) I believe it’s wrong to discriminate against people based on race, gender, religion, or sexual orientation.

3) I believe everyone has the right to freedom of speech and freedom of thought.

4) I believe adults have the responsibility to treat their children fairly and to teach them a sense of right and wrong. To instill in them, honesty and compassion for their fellow man.

5) I will not believe in doctrines based on blind faith. I will strive to keep an open mind and make deductions and conclusions based on evidence.

6) I will not be dogmatic or unwilling to change my mind if new evidence contradicts my basic understanding.

7) I will not fill in gaps of knowledge with guesswork, speculation, or blind belief. I will not be afraid to say “I don’t know”.

I will oppose laws and policies based on religious dogma especially when they infringe on a persons right to freedom of speech and freedom of thought.

9) I will stand up against bigotry and injustice and I will fight intolerance.

10) I will strive to bring people together through common humanity and to end division over religious differences.

*With thanks to my austere Aussie friend

'I believe in being honest and compassionate towards others'

funny how atheists break their first rule towards religious folk...

titlover wrote:
'I believe in being honest and compassionate towards others'

funny how atheists break their first rule towards religious folk...

wherein have I been less than honest or compassionate toward religious people?

What I've said is that I despise the attitude of thumpers that take it upon themselves to tell me that my life is less than it should be because I don't adhere to their particular beliefs....if you want to believe in an invisible friend, then by all means that's what you should do...that's what makes this country great, a freedom to believe whatever you want to believe in, so long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others

but when thumpers start trying to foist their beliefs off on my children, through legislation and other actions that violate the seperation of church and state, I'm going to step on it...

if you can't understand the why of that, well then there's simply no hope for you

Q, West Coast Style wrote:I even think mvscal is with me on this one. If you subscibe to an organized religious belief you are either lying to yourself or you are a complete idiot. It's 2008 people. No need for talking snakes or boats that hold all the world's biodiversity. Organized religion had its place in the development of civilizations but it's reached the point of diminishing returns. It's time to move on. As a people.

How's your worship of self going? Egocentricity doing it for you? Or do you prefer to call it 'enlightenment'? Either way, you've made your choice. Are you prepared to live with and, if need be, answer for such choice, should the need arise in the future? If not, perhaps you should revisit your decision. If so, then be happy in your worship of self.

btw, Q, would you care to prove to us that the Bible is false and that there is no God? If I hear a compelling enough argument, it would go a long way in accepting your premise. Thanks in advance.

mvscal wrote:

battery chucka' one wrote:btw, Q, would you care to prove to us that the Bible is false and that there is no God?

Doesn't work that way, fucktard. It's your fantasy. YOU prove it.

I didn't drop the accusation. The onus is on him (or you). Now get to proving.

battery chucka' one wrote: The honus is on him (or you).

get that honus off me.....

btw, thanks for the sig

Felix wrote:

battery chucka' one wrote: The honus is on him (or you).

get that honus off me.....

btw, thanks for the sig

Funny man. Thanks for the heads up. You're quite welcome for the sig.

mvscal wrote: It's up to you prove that your fantasy really exists not him to prove that it does not.

I understand that logical thought is an anathema to illiterate Bible thumping fucktards such as yourself, though.

Most of my evidence is empirical. You wouldn't get it if you tried.

The accusation was his. You continued it. Therefore, you can either prove it or admit that you have no rationale for why you believe what you do. Your choice. C'mon blind man. Open your eyes already!!!

battery chucka' one wrote: you have no rationale for why you believe what you do. Your choice. C'mon blind man. Open your eyes already!!!

this shit is classic

"I have rationale because my particular version of 2,000 year old desert scribblings proves it"

funny stuff....

Felix wrote:

battery chucka' one wrote: you have no rationale for why you believe what you do. Your choice. C'mon blind man. Open your eyes already!!!

this shit is classic

"I have rationale because my particular version of 2,000 year old desert scribblings proves it"

funny stuff....

So, let's have the reason for why you believe what you do. Or do you choose it with no reasoning behind it? Do you desire to walk blindly with brother MVScal? I think you should watch this video:

http://www.southparkzone.com/episodes/1 ... d-Go!.html

and this one...

http://www.southparkzone.com/episodes/1 ... o-XII.html

ALL HAIL SCIENCE!!!

Or didn't you know that Trey and Matt were laughing AT you the whole time? Probably not, eh?

battery chucka' one wrote:
So, let's have the reason for why you believe what you do.

did you read what I posted?

6) I will not be dogmatic or unwilling to change my mind if new evidence contradicts my basic understanding.

7) I will not fill in gaps of knowledge with guesswork, speculation, or blind belief. I will not be afraid to say “I don’t know”.

I believe in scientific evidence....you on the other hand seem content to adhere to the belief that all of this was poofed into existence by a magical being.....that's your choice, but there is certainly no evidence that such a magical being exists....

Or do you choose it with no reasoning behind it? Do you desire to walk blindly with brother MVScal?

again, I believe what the evidence shows me to be the truth as we can best understand it.....I know that many people struggle with the idea that there is nothing more than what we have in this life and that there is no "great mystery" to be solved, but there's nothing that supports the assertion that there is some great mystical entity that zapped everything into existence

ALL HAIL SCIENCE!!!

you say that sarcastically, but I can assure you that you owe the vast majority of the quality of life you currently enjoy to scientific research and discovery

Or didn't you know that Trey and Matt were laughing AT you the whole time? Probably not, eh?

just a heads up-this sort of "argument from authority" carries no weight with me....you can list off all of the "heavyweight" believers in history and it's not going to change my beliefs one iota....again, I couldn't care less what anybody chooses to believe or not believe so long as it doesn't infringe on my right to live and enjoy my life the way I want.....

if you limit your proselytizing to yourself, your friends and your place of worship and keep it out of the public schools and away from my children and you'll have no problems with me

Q started the thread, and might have offered more than, "religion is bad" and "the Bible says false things" ... but he didn't.

He just trolled.
And that's fine.
Part of the fun of message boarding.

'Prove' God?

The Bible records that God is spirit - John 4:24.
It also records that people all recognize the truth of God - Romans 1:21

Some people speak denial of God, but they know in their heart that He is.

poptart wrote:Some people speak denial of God, but they know in their heart that He is.....

Eric Clapton.

poptart wrote:
He just trolled.

of course he was trolling...but Q is kind of epic like that

'Prove' God?

The Bible records that God is spirit - John 4:24.
It also records that people all recognize the truth of God - Romans 1:21

the thing that always brings a smile to my face is when people use passages from the bible to prove the bible is real....they simply can't (or won't) recognize the circular reasoning of that whole exercise....

it's pretty much akin to

Dear IRS agent,
In an effort to save you the time and money needed for a costly audit of my tax return I've gone ahead and performed the audit myself. Good news, other than a couple of small typographic errors (that did not adversely affect either my net income nor the taxes I owe) my tax return was error free. You will find enclosed my completed return as well as a comprehensive analysis of the findings of my self-audit. Please forward my refund of $143,987 as soon as possible.

Thanks
Felix

Felix,

You speak of scientific evidence. Apparently you know nothing of courtroom procedure. Evidence doesn't prove anything. It just points you in a direction and can be found to be false. You have no proof in what you believe. You take your side based upon your own faith. The sad thing is that you really think that it's been proven. It's merely pieces of evidence.

Felix wrote:the thing that always brings a smile to my face is when people use passages from the bible to prove the bible is real....they simply can't (or won't) recognize the circular reasoning of that whole exercise....

Don't misunderstand, I'm not here to 'prove' God or the Bible to you.

I'm just telling you what the Bible says.

You can believe it or not.