T1B

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27806336/from/RSS/

Maybe it should be the "Civic" War.
It's definetly the "Union" battle - but this time the neck states aligned with the Asia instead of France.

Detroit is finally reaching it's pre-determined darwinistic fate.
And just like the banks want the taxpayer to bail them out.

It's gonna hurt, but it's time to let them die - and the Union model with it.

Go figure... Dems want to bail them out, Reps don't.

Who'd you vote for again?

Rack that razor thin margin that still remains in the Senate.

Hell Dave, I thought you'd be all for bailing out the "made in America" boyz.

So long as he can buy a Toyota Nova in the future he'll be OK with it.

KC Scott wrote:Hell Dave, I thought you'd be all for bailing out the "made in America" boyz.

I was at first. Knee jerk reaction.

Now I realize the UAW needs to make some major concessions from that sweet contract they inked just last year. They average like $70 an hour in wages and benefits? Fuck that noise.

What needs to happen is a Chapter 11 bankruptcy. Re-organize the debt and punt these assembly line fucks from their lifetime sweet deal of installing batteries.

What should re-emerge after the bankrupcy is American car makers who can compete.

War Wagon wrote:Go figure... Dems want to bail them out, Reps don't.

Who'd you vote for again?

Rack that razor thin margin that still remains in the Senate.

Go figure...Republicans are all about bailing out their banking buddies with minimal oversight and "we need it NOW" approach to the situation, while Democrats are looking out for the welfare of six figures of hard-working Americans who will be dealt a death knell if the Big 3 goes under.

And it's YOUR president who's pole you've been smoking for the last eight years who spent us into this recession and current calamity we're in. What a monumentally stupid fuck you are.

War Wagon wrote:lifetime sweet deal of installing batteries.

Shut the fuck up, idiot. You have no fucking clue what you are talking about. "Sweet deal of installing batteries?" Most of the Big 3 laborers do work that takes a little more skill than driving a fucking forklift like yourself.

Whitey reproducing. I fear for the fucking world.

Screw_Michigan wrote:Most of the Big 3 laborers do work that takes a little more skill than driving a fucking forklift like yourself.

About the same amount of skill and knowledge it takes for you mash "submit".

Rack your industrious nature.

War Wagon wrote: Now I realize the UAW needs to make some major concessions from that sweet contract they inked just last year. They average like $70 an hour in wages and benefits? Fuck that noise.

Bwa! when I first told you that you did cartwheels swearing it couldn't be true.

Props on educating yourself Dave -

What should re-emerge after the bankrupcy is American car makers who can compete.

Ding, Ding, Ding -- We have a winner folks

My work here is done

War Wagon wrote: What should re-emerge after the bankrupcy is American car makers who can compete.

you mean like getting rid of all the V-8 hemi's and super ginormous SUV's that can pass anything on the highway except a gas station? You mean build a car that will actally last for a few years longer than the warranty?

heresy

/s/
GM, Ford, Chrysler

I like the fact that they come to the Congress with their hand out but no solid plan for how they intend to reinvent themselves and become competitive in the market....

fuck those overpaid douchebags and the private corporate jets they flew in on....

U.S. Big Business to U.S. Government:

"Stay out of my business. Now give me some money."

Mikey, it's not one-sided like that.

Either way, bailing these folks out is a bad idea. They roll into Washington on their private jets like Somali pirates saying "Give us the money, we have 3 Million Families Hostage".

They don't get it, the unions don't get it. I think it's time to CONTRACT CONTRACT.


Stocking up on beans, rice, and ammo.

Of course with the beans, I probably don't need any ammo.

Bankruptcy will allow the companies to "restructure" and "reorganize" all the way completely out of the country.

One might think, the way those execs presented themselves yesterday was almost a strategic half hearted attempt at just that. "Hey, we tried, we told you, now we're going to have to declare bankruptcy and oh hey ... BTW ... it's more cost effective if we move ALL our operations to Mexico and Brazil.

Car company execs:

"Until, well last week, Americans wanted big cars and trucks. We can't make money selling smaller fuel efficient cars.
I wonder why the Japs, and now the Koreans, have been kicking our ass for the past 20 years....just don't get it. :?
Can you give us some money now? We got bonuses to pay."

Felix wrote:

War Wagon wrote: What should re-emerge after the bankrupcy is American car makers who can compete.

you mean like getting rid of all the V-8 hemi's and super ginormous SUV's that can pass anything on the highway except a gas station?

I mean being able to reduce the obscenely exhorbitant overhead by telling the UAW to take their union contract and go fuck themselves.

I mean being able to produce a quality product at a reasonable cost and still make a profit for the shareholders. I don't care if it's 8 cylinder SUV behemoths or little tin can hybrids, whatever the market will bear.

Wasn't it Albert Einstein that said.

"The first Civil War was fought with muskets and bayonettes, Civil War 2 will be fought by faggots whining on message boards"

War Wagon wrote:They average like $70 an hour in wages and benefits? Fuck that noise.

Actually, I believe it's $81 per hour and the Union was "gracious" enough to agree to taking a pay cut down to a mere $77 per hour….

The best part of this whole debacle thus far::::

Gary Ackerman wrote:"It's almost like seeing a guy show up at the soup kitchen in a high hat and tuxedo."

"Couldn't you have downgraded to first class or something, or jet-pooled or something to get here?"

Fucking RACK that shit.

Expect the Dems to melt on this proposal ASAP...

http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/market ... ers-money/

Has it occurred to anyone that the 77 dollars an hour the current UAW deal calls for would be greatly reduced were the cost of health care reduced? Even something as simple as putting all Americans into a single health care pool for purposes of pricing would shave billions off the Big 3's operating costs.

So far everything I've been reading coincides with that BSmack - it's not the wages. I don't know if "Universal Health Care" is the solution. But the point you're raising; that it's not the wages that are crippling the auto industry it's the benefits. Benefits that the UAW is - purportedly - prepared to negotiate on to keep the automakers up and running.

Not just current workers' bennies, Tom. They have huge obligations to their retired workers relating to a) pensions and b)health care. The best thing that could happen to the Big 3 would be a sudden huge die-off of former auto workers.

But the sky might fall mvscal.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/11/20/news/ec ... /index.htm

mvscal wrote:
Chapter 11 would be the best thing that could happen to them.

the GM execs wouldn't mind fucking the UAW (and neither do I), but by going Chapter 11 they would fuck themselves out of their year-end bonuses and further erode the value of their stock options. A Bailout allows them to keep their place on the gravy train.

besides, the bailout is going to happen- just a little later than they were hoping. The DemocRats aren't about to fuck over their Union financiers- errrr, allies

Cuda wrote: besides, the bailout is going to happen- just a little later than they were hoping.

GM and Chysler may go belly-up before the next Congress can save their ass. And what they're talking about doing with this bailout is just a short term fix and does nothing to address the fundamental problems facing American auto manufacturers.

They need to be turned upside down and inside out before they can have an effective, viable business plan.

..........Time to drop the obligatory.........



Michael Keaton wrote:"Is a frog's ass water-tight?"


After much discussion….


Spazuzatska et al wrote:"Yes, we think it is."

mvscal wrote:

Tom In VA wrote:Bankruptcy will allow the companies to "restructure" and "reorganize" all the way completely out of the country.

One might think, the way those execs presented themselves yesterday was almost a strategic half hearted attempt at just that. "Hey, we tried, we told you, now we're going to have to declare bankruptcy and oh hey ... BTW ... it's more cost effective if we move ALL our operations to Mexico and Brazil.

Call their bluff.

This is especially pathetic coming from the biggest Rove Monkey to ever blather and slurp into total ignominy--gabbling in tongues like Max Cady in Cape Fear as you're sucked under with the other garbage you've been fronting.

Of course America wants, needs, and deserves a federal bailout of its auto industry. For better or worse it's the backbone of our economy. The felching fakes who spout otherwise are beneath contempt, and of course ignorant of the situation.

For better or worse it's the backbone of our economy.

I haven't crunched all the numbers, but I'm pretty sure p0rn has overtaken 'em.

RACK the frontbone of our 21st Century economy!

Wow! A wannabe felcher!

After you clean up, try actually crunching the numbers.

The car makers would be required to use any turnaround profits to first restore the Advanced Vehicle Manufacturing Incentive Program, and to then reduce the public debt.

Initially there was a proposal that the automakers also promise to not cum in our mouths, but, it was stricken down by barney frank.

mvscal wrote: Republicans were the only ones who fought against that bailout, you brainless choad gargling dipshit.

Not that I care what letter any dickweed has next to their name, but for the sake of accuracy, this is completely untrue.

Tonight, the U.S. Senate voted to approve the $700 billion bailout of Wall Street. Senator Ron Wyden was one of just 10 Democrats to vote no. Senator Gordon Smith voted yes.

Senator Whining actually introduced legislation blocking the Great Scam, and tried to ramrod it through to no avail.

How come nobody ever talks about the fact that Fannie and Freddie have mostly dumb nogs working for them?