Mumbai Attacks

[Dr_Phibes]

Just been reading the news on this and all the perpetrators are described as 'Islamic Militants' on an anti-western rampage.
While the brand 'Islamic militant' may be factually true (they are Islamic and certainly militant), it seems to imply a motivation that doesn't exist.

Every news story I've read repeats the tale of an Italian who was released simply because he wasn't American or British. So it stands to reason that the motivation for the attack isn't anti-western or an assault on non-muslims, the correct news headline for these stories should be 'Anti-Imperialists' go on rampage.

allah akbar

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Pure CIA "black ops" intended not for the Indians, but for the Pakistanis.

Tomorrow, when this nebulous, never-before-heard-of terrorist group gets linked to some village in Western Pakistan, you'll understand.

Uncle Sam is getting a little tired of Pakistan's protestations of "Hey! Stop dropping bombs on us!".

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

May the Prophet part his buttocks and pass a great wind to foul the evil machinations of the "Great Satan".

[War Wagon]

Supposedly, they've killed and/or captured some of the attackers and found credit cards, among other forms of ID. Now that's just awesome.

AK-47's and hand grenades are cash only. For everything else, there's Visa.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Never before heard of by you maybe.

Yeah, the name "Deccan Mujahideen" was pasted on a sticky on your fridge for years, right?

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Forces assault besieged Jewish center in Mumbai

"Security forces assaulted a Jewish center in Mumbai where Muslim militants were believed holed up with possible hostages Friday, with black-clad commandos dropping from a Indian helicopter as sharpshooters opened fire on the five-story building."

Niggah, if there were any kikes within 100 miles of that Jewish center, Israeli special forces units would have been all over that
place yesterday.

Pure Yiddish theater for moronic goy masses.

[Mister Bushice]

These fucking extremist morons keep attacking places that end up having too much collateral damage on the local population.

When the body counts continue to include innocent local women and children and also have a negative economic impact, the locals will rise up against them. It happened in Iraq.

How many bombings of this type have you heard about in western countries lately?

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

How many bombings of this type have you heard about in western countries lately?

How many western countries are occupied by Muslim troops?

[Mister Bushice]

How many in-country Muslim troops attacked mumbai?

[Dr_Phibes]

What's interesting, is the way in which the situation is being covered in various countries - in newspools.

North American and British articles are overloaded with details that have nothing to do with the actual situation, for example - a brief description of the events in Mumbai, then four or five paragraphs on the history of 'Al Queda' and the situation on the Pakistani/Afghan border. :?

The coverage of the jew building seems disproportionate aswell, I think it was empty except for one or two people.

The Asian and Middle Eastern press are less interested in colour it seems, you can actually read an article without getting a very leading history on people and events that have nothing to do with the situation.

[Cuda]

weren't people on this board telling me not too long ago that a nuclear war between Inda & Pakistan would be a bad thing?

dumbfucks.

[Dr_Phibes]

If they can't police their own country, somebody else is going to do it for them in ways they aren't going to like very much.

Well you'd never know it from reading off the wire.. whatever happened to subtlety? The state department is infamous for flooding the wires with absolute garbage but have they got to be so ham-fisted about it?

It's probably a case of a public relations department following memos issued in 2005, the day American troops enter pakistan with an official blessing to operate on the afghani border on anything resembling a large scale would be high comedy.

[Mister Bushice]

Oh come on now, Pheebles.

170 plus unarmed innocent people died at the hands of muslims with weapons referring to themselves as part of a Mujahideen.

Brave warriors they are, killing unarmed civilians. Quite the struggle.

No matter which way you turn, it's pretty damn hard to spin those facts.

[Mikey]

Muslims aren't the only terrorists operating in India, and certainly not the most prolific.

It's just that the others don't get reported as widely in the west.

A cloud over India's Muslims
The terrorist attacks in Mumbai may be indelibly linked to the country's Muslims, despite the likelihood of outside influence.
By Martha Nussbaum

November 30, 2008

If, as now seems likely, last week's terrible events in Mumbai were the work of Islamic terrorists, that's more bad news for India's minority Muslim population. Never mind that the perpetrators were probably funded from outside India, in connection with the ongoing conflict over Kashmir. The attacks will feed a powerful stereotype of the violent and untrustworthy Muslim, bent on religious conquest, who can never be a good democratic citizen. Such stereotypes already shadow the lives of Indian Muslims, who make up 13.5% of the population.

But it's important to consider Indian terrorism in a broader context.

Terrorism in India is by no means peculiar to Muslims. A string of recent incidents has been linked to Islamic groups, most of these with foreign ties and pertaining to Kashmir. However, the most bloody recent example of terrorism in India was the slaughter of as many as 2,000 Muslim civilians by Hindu right-wing mobs in the state of Gujarat over several months in 2002.

This horrendous pogrom was portrayed at the time as retaliation for an alleged Muslim torching of a train car carrying mostly Hindu passengers. Two independent inquiries have since concluded that the fire was, instead, a tragic accident caused by passengers' kerosene stoves.

But even if that was not known at the time, most of those killed -- or raped or beaten -- lived long distances from the original incident and could have had no connection to it. Moreover, there was copious evidence of pre-planning: Hindu right-wing groups had kept lists of Muslim dwellings and businesses.

Evidence that Gujarat's state government egged-on the perpetrators was also overwhelming and led to the U.S. State Department in 2005 denying a visa to Narendra Modi, Gujarat's chief minister. Recently, the Indian investigative journal Tehelka uncovered even more proof of government complicity in the murderous, anti-Muslim attacks. A Tehelka reporter using a hidden camera interviewed participants in the Gujarat violence, who described how bombs were manufactured in factories owned by members of the Hindu right; how arms were smuggled from other states; how the police were instructed to look the other way.

One leader of the Bajrang Dal (a paramilitary Hindu right-wing group) described his own role with pride: "There was this pregnant woman, I slit her open. ...They shouldn't even be allowed to breed. I say that even today. Whoever they are, women, children, whoever, nothing to be done with them but cut them down. Thrash them, slash them, burn the bastards. ... The idea is, don't keep them alive at all; after that, everything is ours."

The revelation that members of the Hindu right have embraced ethno-religious cleansing should amaze nobody. Since the 1930s, their movement has insisted that India is for Hindus, and that both Muslims and Christians are foreigners who should have second-class status in the nation.

This year, in the eastern state of Orissa, members of the Bajrang Dal have murdered scores of Christians who refused to reconvert to Hinduism. (Most Indian Christians are descendants of converts, often from the lowest Hindu castes.) Peaceful villages have been reduced to ashes; a church-run orphanage was torched; dozens of churches have been destroyed; missionaries and priests have been murdered in cold blood. Thousands have been forced to flee their homes, and at least 30,000 are homeless. The rallying cry: "Kill Christians and destroy their institutions."

In August, the Catholic bishops of India closed Catholic schools across the country "as a protest against the atrocities on the Christian community and other innocent people." Such actions, aimed at transforming India's pluralistic democracy into an ethnocentric regime, pose a grave threat to India's future.

All of this is terrorism, but most of it doesn't reach the world's front pages. When it does make it into newspapers outside India, the word "terrorism" is rarely used. The result is a perception, in India and abroad, that Muslims are the bad guys in every incident of terrorist violence.

Such stereotypes are so prevalent that many state bar associations in India refuse to defend Muslims accused of complicity in terrorism -- despite the fact that India's constitution guarantees all accused a cost-free defense.

Meanwhile, Muslim youths are often rounded up on suspicion of terrorism with little or no evidence, an analogue to the current ugly phenomenon of racial profiling in the United States.

Some Muslims are criminals. However, this does not justify demonizing Muslims, any more than the violent acts of the Hindu right justify stereotyping all Hindus as rapists and murderers. Let's go after criminals with determination, good evidence and fair trials, and let's stop targeting people based on their religious affiliation.

Martha Nussbaum is a professor of law and ethics at the University of Chicago. Her books include "The Clash Within: Democracy, Religious Violence, and India's Future" (2007) and "Liberty of Conscience: In Defense of America's Tradition of Religious Equality" (2008).

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la- ... 8593.story

[Mister Bushice]

Not so Fast, Mikey

MUMBAI, India – The only gunman captured by police after a string of attacks on Mumbai told authorities he belonged to a Pakistani militant group with links to the disputed region of Kashmir, a senior police officer said Sunday.

India has blamed "elements" from Pakistan for the 60-hour siege during which suspected Muslim militants hit 10 sites across India's financial capital, leaving at least 174 dead.

Joint Police Commissioner Rakesh Maria said the assailant now in custody — the only one of 10 to survive — told police the group had intended to hit even more targets.

"Lashkar-e-Taiba is behind the terrorist acts in the city," Maria told reporters. "The terrorists were from a hardcore group in the L-e-T."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081130/ap_ ... a_shooting

[smackaholic]

I'm guessing that 1 muzzie terrorist dude is wishing the fukk he could go hang out at club gitmo for a few years. I doubt his hindu captors are being terribly nice to him.

[Dr_Phibes]

Oh come on now, Pheebles.

170 plus unarmed innocent people died at the hands of muslims with weapons referring to themselves as part of a Mujahideen.

Brave warriors they are, killing unarmed civilians. Quite the struggle.

No matter which way you turn, it's pretty damn hard to spin those facts.

ooo - the great analysis - see, you've fallen into the trap - you've made a series of connections that are factually true, but completely unsophisticated. It's exactly that sort of shit that's passing itself off as news on the AP (associated press ) that's so obnoxious. A meta-group boogyman without nuanced political objectives who are swept aside and ignored in favour of simple minded generalisations. At the end of the day, they're just irregulars without the benefit of an official soundtrack and matching uniforms.

[smackaholic]

Oh come on now, Pheebles.

170 plus unarmed innocent people died at the hands of muslims with weapons referring to themselves as part of a Mujahideen.

Brave warriors they are, killing unarmed civilians. Quite the struggle.

No matter which way you turn, it's pretty damn hard to spin those facts.

ooo - the great analysis - see, you've fallen into the trap - you've made a series of connections that are factually true, but completely unsophisticated. It's exactly that sort of shit that's passing itself off as news on the AP (associated press ) that's so obnoxious. A meta-group boogyman without nuanced political objectives who are swept aside and ignored in favour of simple minded generalisations. At the end of the day, they're just irregulars without the benefit of an official soundtrack and matching uniforms.

So, it's OK then to murder unarmed civilians, just so long as you aren't uniformed?

[Mister Bushice]

Pakistan is sitting on the anvil right about now. They've got muslim militants raising hell on both sides. If they pull out of the war on terror to the west, the US will just fill that gap with attacks and troops, which they won't like at all. If they don't do something about the little terror groups operating out of paki and going into India, they'll have a shit storm coming at them from that direction as well.


100,000 troops engaged against Al Qaida? Either the terror problem is far larger and worse than we have been told, or that is one fairly incompetent army, to have 100,000 troops failing to capture or suppress Al Qaida to any great extent.

[Tom In VA]

Bushice,

From a 2002 article on getting food aid to the Hindu Kush. Which is where the bulk of the Talliban and Al Queda have been cornered into.

http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/rwb.nsf/db9 ... enDocument

LOGISTIC NIGHTMARE

Getting such massive amounts of food aid into the Nahrin province is a logistical nightmare: roads have been destroyed, villages are isolated and the terrain is heavily mined.

WFP is using three helicopters, currently based in Mazar-I-Sharif, to transport urgently-needed CSB into the area as well as staff and supplies from other aid agencies such as Unicef, UN OCHA and WHO.

ACTED, which continues to operate despite having its offices destroyed in the quake, has sent 2,000 tents and 1,000 blankets to help victims. Four weeks prior to the quake, the same NGO had distributed 150 kilos of wheat to 10,000 families in and around Nahrin.

Some 54,000 people live in Nahrin, an area which was already suffering from three years of consecutive drought and the aftermath of the recent conflict between the Taliban and the Northern Alliance.

Just one small key detail into the logistical problem of "following them into the mountains". Add those logisitcal issues and couple them with - an invading force being met with people trying to stop them i.e. kill them - and you have a serious "easier said than done" situation.

The 100,000 is probably there to assist in containment rather than active pursuit. Other issues are, "they all look the same" isn't true. The people in the Hindu Kush, largely sympathetic to "the old ways" sponsored by the Talliban have lived there for centuries. They can spot a stranger in an instant.

Any Army, attempting to go into the hills, will be faced with a "quagmire" of epic proportions. We've already seen issues with containment due to Pakistani Army loyalty issues and simply math ... somebody with something ... can get through. Hence, the attack on Mumbai attempting to relieve some of the containment in the west so more can get through.

Here's another article on the implications of mounting a full scale operation in the Hindu Kush.

https://www.ikat.org/2001/09/21/in-the- ... ght-a-war/

“In my opinion, a snatch operation by Delta commandos would be very difficult, almost impossible, and costly in terms of lives and public relations,” Mortenson wrote. “The terrain is rocky, precipitous, sparsely covered with sage, occasional fig trees and juniper.

“This is the terrain from which the Mujahadeen (freedom fighters) harassed and killed thousands of young Soviet soldiers. Unlike young, ill-trained Taliban troops, bin Laden’s close circle of Arab guards are well trained, loyal to death and well armed.”

The ethnic group of the region, Pattan tribesmen, have successfully resisted the Turks, Mongols, British and Russians over more than a millennium. “Their single most characteristic traits,” said Mortenson, “are to accord ultimate hospitality to their guests and protect them with their lives. Osama is no exception.”

[Cuda]

factually true, but completely unsophisticated. It's exactly that sort of shit that's passing itself off as news on the AP (associated press ) .

you should know better than to use "factually true" and ANY iteration of AP in the same breath

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

factually true, but completely unsophisticated. It's exactly that sort of shit that's passing itself off as news on the AP (associated press ) .

you should know better than to use "factually true" and ANY iteration of AP in the same breath

This wouldn't have anything to do with Zbigniew Brzezinski's "Jizz-Stained Mirror Containment Policy", would it?
The theory that luring your enemy into "wearing the panties" of occupation, so to speak and then claiming to have a "27 year old hottie", which is understood in geo-political circles as representing a regional consensus on the use of force.


If I saw a Pashtun warlord discussing terms of a negotiated settlement, I would say that's fucked up and leave it at that.

[Cuda]

[PSUFAN]

Very nicely played, marty.

[Dr_Phibes]

A meta-group boogyman without nuanced political objectives who are swept aside and ignored in favour of simple minded generalisations.

It seems to me the objective of this attack was military.

Yes comrade Mv, but war is an extension of politics.

I've got my tin-foil hat on and this whole thing seems identical to the way that (harrari? Herrari?- sic-) person got blown up in Lebanon. The accusation, counter-accusations between governments seem the same with Pakistan playing the part of Syria in the press and the smoke hasn't even cleared yet.

It'll be interesting to see which way things go, as Pakistan has been static since bhutto got stir-fried.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

It seems to me the objective of this attack was military.

Yes comrade Mv, but war is an extension of politics.

It was a provocation, you goofballs.

You know, like, drop $20 at Home Depot for box cutters, ram an airliner into a building and then having the world's only super-power spend every last one of it's dollars chasing guys in sandals around the planet...indefinitely.

RACK the Paks.

[Dr_Phibes]

queue heartstrings:

The cries of little Moshe Holtzberg wounded hearts Monday at a tearful memorial for his parents in India. "Mommy, mommy, mommy!" he wailed, clutching a toy basketball while squirming in the arms of mourners at the Mumbai synagogue.

Then the toddler and the caretaker who rescued him from the terrorist attack boarded a jet along with the bodies of his parents and four other Jews slain at the Chabad House to fly to Israel — a place the curly-haired 2-year-old had never seen.

all together now.. awwwwwwwwwwwww :(

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081201/ap_ ... ndia_moshe

[War Wagon]

It was a provocation, you goofballs.

You know, like, drop $20 at Home Depot for box cutters, ram an airliner into a building and then having the world's only super-power spend every last one of it's dollars chasing guys in sandals around the planet...indefinitely.

RACK the Paks.

So let me get this straight... you actually admire mass murderers of innocent civilians?

[Mister Bushice]

No whitey, he admires the technique.

[War Wagon]

He admires the technique of mass murderers? What's the difference?

Don't bother answering, Bitchshice. I wasn't talking to you in the first place. Let Martyred speak for himself.

[Tom In VA]

Expect an answer along the lines of ....

If he liked mass murderers of innocents he'd like America. You see Wags, Marty is Huron. He's seen the evils of European devils first hand. Living in a country that was under the boot of the Queen for so long, knowing full well the resources and treasures from HIS NATIVE HOMELAND were used to build the British Empire and keep it alive and all the atrocities that went along with it, makes him sick.

Even though militarily the British Empire is somewhat impotent, it's still alive and kicking monetarily and kept alive AND protected by the U.S.

Europe, England, France, and then the U.S. (Europe II) .... big time mass murderers of innocents. Especially innocent Muslims. Think if the Pennsylvania National Guard was brought to bear against the Amish in PA.

That's his view. Of course, when pressed hard enough, the Amish would respond with suicide horse carriages. And collateral damage and out and out targetting of civilians would ensue. Marty would cream his jeans.

When you think Marty .... think ....

MAGUA


And he will put the grey hairs seed under the knife and after the grey hair sees his seed destroyed he will eat the grey hair's heart.

[War Wagon]

Wasn't that guy in Apocalypto as well?

Marty doesn't fit the part.

[Mister Bushice]

He admires the technique of mass murderers? What's the difference?

I'm sorry you're stupid, whitey. You've always been burdened with the albatross of your warped religious beliefs that cloud your view of fact.

Marty isn't condoning murder, he is pointing out that Al Qaida used 9-11 for revenge but (and I don't think it was an intentional strategy but it worked out that way) it ended up baiting BushAmerica into spending billions on hunting them down, and the Paki terrorists have seen how effective that strategy is given how deep in shit (economically speaking) we have become, so they are employing it in India to take the pressure off the western border so that we can continue spending billions chasing them down and never actually catching them. It's a perfect circle.

You don't have to condone the violence of a perfect crime to appreciate the execution. We watch that type of shit every Sunday on the NFL network.

Right, Marty?

[Tom In VA]

I'm sorry you're stupid, whitey. You've always been burdened with the albatross of your warped religious beliefs that cloud your view of fact.

Marty isn't condoning murder, he is pointing out that Al Qaida used 9-11 for revenge but (and I don't think it was an intentional strategy but it worked out that way) it ended up baiting BushAmerica into spending billions on hunting them down, and the Paki terrorists have seen how effective that strategy is given how deep in shit (economically speaking) we have become, so they are employing it in India to take the pressure off the western border so that we can continue spending billions chasing them down and never actually catching them. It's a perfect circle.

You don't have to condone the violence of a perfect crime to appreciate the execution. We watch that type of shit every Sunday on the NFL network.

Right, Marty?

LMAO. So if "whitey" has an albatross of religion that clouds facts, what's your albatross ? Some facts you didn't get.

1. Marty enjoys seing Americans, Brits, and Jews die.
2. Baiting the U.S. into a war that would either sink us economically OR show the rest of the world that we were pussies that couldn't handle a fight WAS IN FACT their intent.
3. Even a broke clock is right twice a day but Marty didn't point that out. Mvscal provided an article that broke that down.

[Mister Bushice]

I'm sorry you're stupid, whitey. You've always been burdened with the albatross of your warped religious beliefs that cloud your view of fact.

Marty isn't condoning murder, he is pointing out that Al Qaida used 9-11 for revenge but (and I don't think it was an intentional strategy but it worked out that way) it ended up baiting BushAmerica into spending billions on hunting them down, and the Paki terrorists have seen how effective that strategy is given how deep in shit (economically speaking) we have become, so they are employing it in India to take the pressure off the western border so that we can continue spending billions chasing them down and never actually catching them. It's a perfect circle.

You don't have to condone the violence of a perfect crime to appreciate the execution. We watch that type of shit every Sunday on the NFL network.

Right, Marty?

LMAO. So if "whitey" has an albatross of religion that clouds facts, what's your albatross ? Some facts you didn't get.

1. Marty enjoys seing Americans, Brits, and Jews die.
2. Baiting the U.S. into a war that would either sink us economically OR show the rest of the world that we were pussies that couldn't handle a fight WAS IN FACT their intent.
3. Even a broke clock is right twice a day but Marty didn't point that out. Mvscal provided an article that broke that down.

#1. No, I seriously doubt he does. He does enjoying baiting us on that fact, though. Endlessly. Tediously.
#2. So - how's that going so far?
#3. You mean this article?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/de ... a-conflict

Since when does ANY government totally control terrorists actions? Certainly those groups have been used or sanctioned by the Paki Government in the past, but we're probably talking highest bidder here in this situation. It doesn't seem that the Paks have much control over them,whether or not they believe in their ideology.

Al qaida has a LOT of money to toss around, and ANY terror group would be happy to make themselves richer while furthering their own base freak religious beliefs by bandwagoning at a 10:1 ratio of kills to deaths.

One thing - India got its ass handed to it in Mumbai, just like we did on 9-11. Deny if you like.

Respect the enemy, and they won't beat you.
The devil you know is far less dangerous than the one you don't.

We have to learn a lot more to fight this enemy effectively, because they keep changing the rules.

mvscal seems convinced we are winning, but arabs keep fucking and birthing and creating new generations of young people they can co opt into terrorism through indoctrination.

Plus, he sucks at predictions.

[Tom In VA]

I"m going to have to research what impact the war on terror is having on the housing market before I see our current economic situation as a victory for Al Queder.

[Mister Bushice]

Yes, while you're at it contemplate the drop in the value of the dollar vis-a-vis the # of dollars printed and spent on the iraq war over the last 6 years, and how much good those dollars could have done here in the US now.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Bushice is close.

Tom...well...not so much.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

...OR show the rest of the world that we were pussies that couldn't handle a fight...

No. Al Queda knows you can handle a fight. Their bet is that you handle it too much and overreact (as you did).

The goal of terrorism = the action is in the reaction. Pure Lenin.

[Tom In VA]

Marty,

Much of my response was tongue in cheek to further the "mystique" of your anti-western imperialism anarchist persona. It's Christmas damnit, I was in a giving mood.

Obama's "paper tiger" comments in an interview suggests otherwise. The U.S. , in my lifetime, has done nothing but cut and run. Until now. The view that the U.S. would not help it's friends, but cut and run, was pervasive since Vietnam. A lot of good South Vietnamese people who were friendly to the U.S. and helpful to the U.S. were left behind.