T1B

If Pete Rose isn't permitted into Cooperstown based on something less damaging to the game and which his playing career had nothing to do with...

Why should players that we all know now did cheat and whose playing records are forever blemished be permitted in.

McGuire
Sosa
Bonds

To name the top 3..

Nobody is moving that Gaylord Perry's plaque be taken down. I say they're in.

BSmack wrote:Nobody is moving that Gaylord Perry's plaque be taken down. I say they're in.

Maybe so but, did Gaylord throw a spitter with every pitch?
How many of Bonds, Mac and Sosa's home runs were aided by them being on the juice..

And even then, if memory serves me right here, the vote for Gaylord's acceptance into the hall was extremely close and it took him more than one shot to get in there.

Whereas Bonds and Mac have a legit shot at Cooperstown on the first ballot.

Otis wrote:

BSmack wrote:Nobody is moving that Gaylord Perry's plaque be taken down. I say they're in.

Maybe so but, did Gaylord throw a spitter with every pitch?
How many of Bonds, Mac and Sosa's home runs were aided by them being on the juice..

And even then, if memory serves me right here, the vote for Gaylord's acceptance into the hall was extremely close and it took him more than one shot to get in there.

Whereas Bonds and Mac have a legit shot at Cooperstown on the first ballot.

The point is that Perry is in. His use of the spitter undouibtedly gave him wins he would not have otherwise gotten. Let's say Perry got 30 extra wins from the spitter. That means he's Bert Blyleven, and not Hall of Famer Gaylord Perry.

Cheaters or not, Bonds, Sosa and McGwire were three of the most dominant figures of modern baseball. They will get in.

BSmack wrote:Cheaters or not, Bonds, Sosa and McGwire were three of the most dominant figures of modern baseball. They will get in.

Rose was arguably more dominant than any one of them.. but he's not in.

Otis wrote:

BSmack wrote:Cheaters or not, Bonds, Sosa and McGwire were three of the most dominant figures of modern baseball. They will get in.

Rose was argueable more dominant than any one of them.. but he's not in.

Gambling is in a different category. Shoeless Joe was more dominant than Rose, and he's not in either. Apples and Oranges eh?

But his admission into Cooperstown would have been based on his accomplishments as a player.
His banishment from baseball came after he had retired as a player.

Otis wrote:But his admission into Cooperstown would have been based on his accomplishments as a player.
His banishment from baseball came after he had retired as a player.

He's on the banished list. That's why he's not in. I have zero sympathy for Rose. In fact, I couold really give a flying rat fuck if anybody is elected to the Hall. it doesn't really impact my life. I'm just saying that Bonds, Sosa and McGwire is still going to get in. Nothing they have done will get them banished from baseball, so they'll get in.

B, nice seeing you here. Im shocked that you have a different opinion on the subject than I do. This must be a first. :roll:

Seeing that you will be using your normal spin tactics, lets address the real matter at hand, and what you brought to the table in defense.

Gaylord.

"Cheating," in baseball, has always, and will always be permitted. As long as, you do NOT get caught. Its part of the game. However, that term, "Cheating," has a certain definition that goes with it. Its oddly enough, a certain honor amongst thieves. Now while in a perfect world, that does not make it right..... it is indeed a part of the game. YOU are doing what you can to help the team win, but its just a little thing here or there, and more importantly, it must be so subtle as not to be detected. ITS ONLY CHEATING, IF YOU GET CAUGHT!

I really dont know what else I can say other than what is listed above, that is OK, with cheating in the game.

Pete, Shoeless Joe.

But the following IS NOT:

Gambling. Its posted in every clubhouse. Do not do it, or you will pay. I'd debate this further, but it has nothing to do with roids.

Speaking of roids.... regardless of what MLB's policy was, they are, and have been illegal with in the eyes of the law. Cheating in baseball, is NOT "Cheating in baseball," ..... if .... you are breaking the law. "Cheating in baseball," makes you a team player. Cheating the law, makes you a criminal.

Id like to think you would comprehend the difference between the two, but I will not be surprised when you spin things your way. Some people, will just never get it.

kcdave wrote:B, nice seeing you here. Im shocked that you have a different opinion on the subject than I do. This must be a first. :roll:

Seeing that you will be using your normal spin tactics, lets address the real matter at hand, and what you brought to the table in defense.

Gaylord.

"Cheating," in baseball, has always, and will always be permitted. As long as, you do NOT get caught. Its part of the game. However, that term, "Cheating," has a certain definition that goes with it. Its oddly enough, a certain honor amongst thieves. Now while in a perfect world, that does not make it right..... it is indeed a part of the game. YOU are doing what you can to help the team win, but its just a little thing here or there, and more importantly, it must be so subtle as not to be detected. ITS ONLY CHEATING, IF YOU GET CAUGHT!

I really dont know what else I can say other than what is listed above, that is OK, with cheating in the game.

Pete, Shoeless Joe.

But the following IS NOT:

Gambling. Its posted in every clubhouse. Do not do it, or you will pay. I'd debate this further, but it has nothing to do with roids.

Speaking of roids.... regardless of what MLB's policy was, they are, and have been illegal with in the eyes of the law. Cheating in baseball, is NOT "Cheating in baseball," ..... if .... you are breaking the law. "Cheating in baseball," makes you a team player. Cheating the law, makes you a criminal.

Id like to think you would comprehend the difference between the two, but I will not be surprised when you spin things your way. Some people, will just never get it.

Dave,

I'm not sure if you noticed, but that was precisely what I said.

kcdave wrote:Speaking of roids.... regardless of what MLB's policy was, they are, and have been illegal with in the eyes of the law.

Wrong.
Wrong.
Wrong.

You and the rest of the sheep better get this through your fucking heads. Roids were LEGAL up until 1990:

Sale of anabolic steroids for non-medical purposes became illegal under a new Food and Drug Act provision, the 'Anti-Drug Abuse Act of 1988'. Which means it was still legal to have them... you just could not sell them. Stupid law. It was corrected in 1990 with the passage of the Anabolic Steroids Control Act. This stated is was illegal to sell or possess roids without a prescription in the U.S.

Unwar -- Ruth, Mays, Aaron not taking advantage of LEGAL JUICE when they had the chance.

Otis wrote:If Pete Rose isn't permitted into Cooperstown based on something less damaging to the game and which his playing career had nothing to do with...

Why should players that we all know now did cheat and whose playing records are forever blemished be permitted in.

McGuireSosa
Bonds

To name the top 3..

Is hasnt been proven that Mcgwire took roids. Plus, him and Bonds were dominating the game before they even got bigger and stronger. Lets say, both of them did it, they still wuld have made the Hall b/c they were already that good. We arent talking about guys w/ marginal talent that used steroids and ended up having HOF numbers. Now if Bret Boone and Brady Anderson were being considered that would be another story.

Rose is a dirt bag, white trash POS who deserves what he has been dealt.

BTW: Those down on the players for the illegal aspect of roids had better be prepared to reconsider damn near every HoFer that played during the 20s as well as a fair number of players from 68 and on who did illegal drugs.

Otis wrote:If Pete Rose isn't permitted into Cooperstown based on something less damaging to the game

While this is all opinion-based.....in my opinion, this is a stupid opinion. Dudes take roids to jack the ball out to the street, theoretically helping their team managers bet on their own team to tank games.

Shoeless jo hit .400?? in series, never took money, and is banished!


rose broke every gambling rulke there is, and could of possibly changed the outcomes of games by putting in a struggling pitcher to face top of order in a close game, that errrrr they lost cause said pitcher continues to strugle.
maybe not!


but Rose is a dirtball.


Shoeless Joe got screwd!

Adelpiero wrote:Shoeless jo hit .400?? in series, never took money, and is banished!

rose broke every gambling rulke there is, and could of possibly changed the outcomes of games by putting in a struggling pitcher to face top of order in a close game, that errrrr they lost cause said pitcher continues to strugle.
maybe not!

but Rose is a dirtball.

Shoeless Joe got screwd!

Joe knew the fix was in and said nothing. He got what he deserved.

BSmack wrote:

Adelpiero wrote:Shoeless jo hit .400?? in series, never took money, and is banished!

rose broke every gambling rulke there is, and could of possibly changed the outcomes of games by putting in a struggling pitcher to face top of order in a close game, that errrrr they lost cause said pitcher continues to strugle.
maybe not!

but Rose is a dirtball.

Shoeless Joe got screwd!

Joe knew the fix was in and said nothing. He got what he deserved.

He did say something, went out and played MVP ball in series.


those words speak alot louder.

Adelpiero wrote:

BSmack wrote:Joe knew the fix was in and said nothing. He got what he deserved.

He did say something, went out and played MVP ball in series.

those words speak alot louder.

That's why it took a year for the fix to be uncovered. Because Jackson spoke out. :roll:

BSmack wrote:

Adelpiero wrote:

BSmack wrote:Joe knew the fix was in and said nothing. He got what he deserved.

He did say something, went out and played MVP ball in series.

those words speak alot louder.

That's why it took a year for the fix to be uncovered. Because Jackson spoke out. :roll:

God you can be stoopid at times.

Clinton knew what sex is/was...

The good guy gets banned, the bad guy sells books.

Liberalism in action.

Did I mention how stupid you can be at times?

Anyhoo, Otis, Dins already addressed your query. This does not rise to the level of Rose. Is it bad and damaging? Yes. On the same plain as what Rose did? No.

rozy wrote:

BSmack wrote:

Adelpiero wrote: He did say something, went out and played MVP ball in series.

those words speak alot louder.

That's why it took a year for the fix to be uncovered. Because Jackson spoke out. :roll:

God you can be stoopid at times. Clinton knew what sex is/was... The good guy gets banned, the bad guy sells books. Liberalism in action.

Did I mention how stupid you can be at times?

You bring Bill Clinton into a thread about baseball and I'M the stupid one? How bout you grab a cup of STFU and buy a clue on Ebay.

Adelpiero wrote:

BSmack wrote:

Adelpiero wrote:Shoeless jo hit .400?? in series, never took money, and is banished!

rose broke every gambling rulke there is, and could of possibly changed the outcomes of games by putting in a struggling pitcher to face top of order in a close game, that errrrr they lost cause said pitcher continues to strugle.
maybe not!

but Rose is a dirtball.

Shoeless Joe got screwd!

Joe knew the fix was in and said nothing. He got what he deserved.

He did say something, went out and played MVP ball in series.


those words speak alot louder.

It is kind of strange, Joe had great numbers but there were some suspect plays. He never got charged with an error, but there are several instances where he doesn't get to a ball that most people thought he should have. There are plays where he double pumps before a throw which is something he never did. I love Joe Jackson, but he got deserved the ban. Of course, it is a life time ban so why not lift it since he is dead.