T1B

To his credit, he did try and phrase his argument in a manner they may understand.

unlike Mitsubishi, General Motors didn’t bomb Pearl Harbor.

http://www.amconmag.com/blog/2008/12/16 ... publicans/

“GOP to Detroit: Drop Dead!”

So may have read the headline Friday, had not President Bush stepped in to save GM, Ford and Chrysler, which Senate Republicans had just voted to send to the knacker’s yard.

What are Republicans thinking of, pulling the plug, at Christmas, on GM, risking swift death for the greatest manufacturing company in American history, a strategic asset and pillar of the U.S. economy?

The $14 billion loan to the Big Three that Republican senators filibustered to death is just 2 percent of the $700 billion the Senate voted to bail out Wall Street. Having gone along with bailouts of Bear Stearns, AIG, Fannie, Freddie and CitiGroup, why refuse a reprieve to an industry upon which millions of the best blue-collar jobs in America depend?

In a good year, Americans buy 17 million cars. A more populous EU probably buys as many. Three billion people in India, Southeast Asia and China, four times as many people as there are in the EU and United States, are moving toward the middle class. They, too, will be wanting cars. And millions of them love American cars.

Is the Republican Party so fanatic in its ideology that, rather than sin against a commandment of Milton Friedman, it is willing to see America written forever out of this fantastic market, let millions of jobs vanish and write off the industrial Midwest Uh, yeah Pat. Haven't you tuned your radio dial to am at all in the last 20 years? Maybe you could've seen this is where the intelect of your party was headed had you not been sucking up to them over their fervor about "God Guns and Gays." ?

So it would seem. “Companies fail every day, and others take their place,” said Sen. Richard Shelby on “Face the Nation.”

Presumably, the companies that will “take their place,” when GM, Ford and Chrysler die, are German, Japanese or Korean, like the ones lured into Shelby’s state of Alabama, with the bait of subsidies free-market Republicans are supposed to abhor.

In 1993, Alabama put together a $258 million package to bring a Mercedes plant in. In 1999, Honda was offered $158 million to build a plant there. In 2002, Alabama won a Hyundai plant by offering a $252 million subsidy.

“We have a number of profitable automakers in America, and they should not be disadvantaged for making wise business decisions while failure is rewarded,” says Sen. Jim DeMint of South Carolina.

DeMint is referring to “profitable automakers” like BMW, which sited a plant in Spartanburg, after South Carolina offered the Germans a $150 million subsidy and $80 million to expand.

Be it BMW, Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Mazda, Mitsubishi or Hyundai, the South has become a sanctuary for foreign assembly plants, for which Southern states have been paying subsidies.

Fine.

But why this “Let-them-eat-cake!” coldness toward U.S. auto companies? General Motors employs more workers than all these foreign plants combined. And, unlike Mitsubishi, General Motors didn’t bomb Pearl Harbor.

Do these Southern senators understand why the foreign automakers suddenly up and decided to build plants in the United States?

It was the economic nationalism of Ronald Reagan. Pat, all they know about Reagan is that he defeated communism while serving as Jesus Pro Tem

When an icon of American industry, Harley-Davidson, was being run out of business by cutthroat Japanese dumping of big bikes to kill the “Harley Hog,” Reagan slapped 50 percent tariffs on their motorcycles and imposed quotas on imported Japanese cars. Message to Tokyo. If you folks want to keep selling cars here, start building them here.

Fear of Reaganism brought those foreign automakers, lickety-split, to America’s shores, not any love of Southern cooking.Well, in both Asia and the South, they eat some pretty jacked-up shit. So maybe.

Do the Republicans not yet understand how they lost the New Majority coalition that gave them three landslides and five victories in six presidential races from 1968 to 1988? Do they not know why the Reagan Democrats in Pennsylvania, Ohio and Michigan are going home?

The Republican Party gave their jobs away! <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Q2fGl9587X8&hl ... ram><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Q2fGl9587X8&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube]

How? By telling U.S. manufacturers they could shut plants here, get rid of their U.S. workers, build factories in Mexico, Asia or China, and ship their products back, free of charge.

Republican globalists gave U.S. manufacturers every incentive to go abroad and take their jobs with them, the jobs of Middle America.

And, for 30 years, that is what U.S. manufacturers have done, have been forced to do, as their competitors closed down and moved their plants abroad in search of low-wage Third World labor.

It’s Herbert Hoover time in here, Vice President Cheney is said to have told the Senate Republicans — as they prepared to march out onto the floor and turn thumbs down on any reprieve for General Motors.

In today’s world, America faces nationalistic trade rivals who manipulate currencies, employ nontariff barriers, subsidize their manufacturers, rebate value-added taxes on exports to us and impose value-added taxes on imports from us, all to capture our markets and kill our great companies. And we have a Republican Party blissfully ignorant that we live in a world of us or them. It doesn’t even know who “us” is.

We need a new team on the field and a new coach who believes with Vince Lombardi that “winning isn’t everything. It’s the only thing.” Right, Pat. But it seems until then you would have to agree <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ocV5bGHdYag&hl ... ram><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ocV5bGHdYag&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube]

Buchanan is as much a republican as David Duke is a democrat

The Seer wrote:Buchanan is as much a republican as David Duke is a democrat

For the vast majority of the GOP's history, Pat Buchanan's views on trade were accepted party orthodoxy. That is, until the GOP realized there was a lot more money to be made selling jobs than there was selling durable goods.

The Seer wrote:Buchanan is as much a republican as David Duke is a democrat

If I'm not mistaken, Seer, the only thing you dislike as much as you love you some UCLA, is illegal brown people immigration. No? And on that point you really don't have a better friend than Pat. So you should go find yourself a 1992 vintage "Go Pat Go!" sign and thank him.

Why does President Bush not act? What is paralyzing the White House? Answer: Political correctness, political cowardice, political opportunism, a sense of guilt for America's sins, and twin ideologies that have a grip on our elites not unlike a religious cult. The proud old boast, "Here, sir, the people rule!" no longer applies.
-- State of Emergency

Tip: Styles can be applied quickly to selected text.

Q, West Coast Style wrote: Lotsa fucking words that add up to nothing

cut to the chase, Q. Do you love Buchanan now, or do you still hate him?

Q, West Coast Style wrote:

The Seer wrote:Buchanan is as much a republican as David Duke is a democrat

If I'm not mistaken, Seer, the only thing you dislike as much as you love you some UCLA, is illegal brown people immigration. No? And on that point you really don't have a better friend than Pat. So you should go find yourself a 1992 vintage "Go Pat Go!" sign and thank him.

Anyone that doesn't have a problem with 20 million people in this country illegally has some issues of their own....

Buchanan is always rackable. He is what McCain should have been - principled, uncompromising, driven.

Even the posting tools are kicking Jerknic's ass - bwahahaha!

In a good year, Americans buy 17 million cars. A more populous EU probably buys as many. Three billion people in India, Southeast Asia and China, four times as many people as there are in the EU and United States, are moving toward the middle class. They, too, will be wanting cars. And millions of them love American cars.

Used to.

Back in the day, seeing a proper American car parked up on a street would bring every kid on the estate out, just staring at it in awe, as if the Fonz had rolled up. Nowadays, Yank cars seem to be the same as the Euro ones, but unnecessarily bigger.

Three things GM need to do right now;

1) Get more proper-looking cars on the telly. In the 70s, you couldn't think of a US TV show without automatically thinking of the car the main character drove.

2) Move away from scared-of-people carriers.

3) Make them look shit-hot again.

Nishlord wrote:

In a good year, Americans buy 17 million cars. A more populous EU probably buys as many. Three billion people in India, Southeast Asia and China, four times as many people as there are in the EU and United States, are moving toward the middle class. They, too, will be wanting cars. And millions of them love American cars.

Used to.

Back in the day, seeing a proper American car parked up on a street would bring every kid on the estate out, just staring at it in awe, as if the Fonz had rolled up. Nowadays, Yank cars seem to be the same as the Euro ones, but unnecessarily bigger.

Three things GM need to do right now;

1) Get more proper-looking cars on the telly. In the 70s, you couldn't think of a US TV show without automatically thinking of the car the main character drove.

Problem there is that most of those cars are gas guzzlers (as opposed to Cuddles, who's a cock guzzler). While gas prices have come down, I think the American public is still wary of gas prices going back to gouge levels (especially in this economy.

3) Make them look shit-hot again.

If they do this with a vehicle that works with alternative fuels that has decent range, and they won't be able to keep them in stock.

American cars are quite good these days. Cars in general are light years ahead of that gran torino from starsky and hutch that nish seems to pine for.

The trouble is, the domestic makers have been taking it up the arse from the UAW for so long, that they can not compete any longer.

Let them go through the cleansing process of bankruptcy. They will emerge much better off.

smackaholic wrote: The trouble is, the domestic makers have been taking it up the arse from the UAW for so long, that they can not compete any longer.

Nice inane right wing talking point. Care to back up that statement?

Sure.

Assembly line workers, most of whom would be classified as semi skilled labor, at best, demanding 30 bucks an hour. And this in an area with a fairly low cost of living.

Where I work, a new inexperienced machine operator is making somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 bucks an hour. Someone that has been there a number of years might be making 15. And this is in a place where the cost of living is considerably higher.

Besides this, I have real life experience to go by. This summer I was in the market for a new ride. GM was doing their "employee pricing" thing and still, they wanted better than 21K for a new malibu. Ford was close to that on fusions. I could have got into an accord for similar money and a camry a little cheaper. The accord is a better car, imo. The camry, about comparable. I ended up with a new sonata for 5 grand less. It is the equal of the domestics, imo. More than equal when it comes to standard equipment and warantee.

So, 'splain to me why chevy, in the dire straits they find themselves in, let's cars sit unsold, rather than discount them to the competition's prices?

They don't because they can't. They can't because their labor costs are out of control.

smackaholic wrote:Sure.

Assembly line workers ... costs are out of control.

Thanks for the piss poor excuse for an explanation. Again, do you care to back up your statement and I'm not talking about telling me that fords cost more than hondas and a worker in your area makes 10 bucks per. Pull your stupid head out of your ass and give me at least a little detail you vapid piece of crap.

smackaholic wrote:American cars are quite good these days. Cars in general are light years ahead of that gran torino from starsky and hutch that nish seems to pine for.

The trouble is, the domestic makers have been taking it up the arse from the UAW for so long, that they can not compete any longer.

Let them go through the cleansing process of bankruptcy. They will emerge much better off.

All you're doing when you call out the union workers is show the world the party honk that you are. Last I checked, it was wasn't the union who designed the crapola produced in the eighties.

And if you want to adopt the Japanese model for labor, be my guest. Just remember that model includes government-provided health care system.

smackaholic wrote: Assembly line workers, most of whom would be classified as semi skilled labor, at best, demanding 30 bucks an hour.

New hires at GM are now starting out around $14 an hour under the latest UAW contract.

That's good, wags. 14 bucks is a good salary for a young single person without any particular skills or edumacashun. It shows that they are on the right track. Now, they need to get some of those that have been around awhile and are making one shitload more than 14/hr to bend a little.

Diego in Seattle wrote:And if you want to adopt the Japanese model for labor, be my guest. Just remember that model includes government-provided health care system.

You wanna link me up with a site that explains how the thousands of toyota, honda, nissan, mercedes. bmw, hyundai, etc.... workers in america are covered by gubmint health care?

TIA, dumbfukk.

smackaholic wrote:Now, they need to get some of those that have been around awhile and are making one shitload more than 14/hr to bend a little.

Yeah, right. And if you had worked for GM for 20 years, you'd be the first in line to sign up for a 30% pay cut, right? I'm sure your creditors would understand and slash all you're debts to match.

Nevermind that the average Toyota worker is also making around $30 an hour.

Dude, it's not the hourly wage that's killing the car companies. It's the legacy costs of supporting all those retired workers until they die. Costs that the foreign companies don't have. Not to mention that back in the day Joe assembly line wrench monkey retired at 65 and conveniently died at 66. Today, he lives until he's 85.

So basically you've got about 1 active worker trying to support 3 retired workers and it just doesn't work.

War Wagon wrote:

smackaholic wrote:Now, they need to get some of those that have been around awhile and are making one shitload more than 14/hr to bend a little.

Yeah, right. And if you had worked for GM for 20 years, you'd be the first in line to sign up for a 30% pay cut, right? I'm sure your creditors would understand and slash all you're debts to match.

Nevermind that the average Toyota worker is also making around $30 an hour.

Dude, it's not the hourly wage that's killing the car companies. It's the legacy costs of supporting all those retired workers until they die. Costs that the foreign companies don't have. Not to mention that back in the day Joe assembly line wrench monkey retired at 65 and conveniently died at 66. Today, he lives until he's 85.

So basically you've got about 1 active worker trying to support 3 retired workers and it just doesn't work.

wags, what other choice does he have? he's had a nice ride making a pretty good percentage more than other manufacturing yobs around him. and yes, a BIG part of the problem is a pension system that was designed for a population that would collect it for a few years, if at all, before cashing it in. those folks are going to have to accept the fact that the fukking pension system they have is broken and it ain't the yob of the federal gubmint to fix it. if this means they might have to sell their house on the lake and keep their fleetwood a few extra years before trading it in on a new one, then so be it. i ain't bailing them out. i couldn't if i wanted to. nor can our kids.

Mace wrote:You can't ignore the fact that the UAW is part of the problem...

How is it a fact? Care to show us?

Health care is already a part of the $80+/hour cost for salaries/bennies, so the Japanese model with government provided health care is irrelevant.

You are one stupid fuck. Lots of Japanese cars are made in souther U.S. states where they have no government provided health care.

Kierlands' T1B strategy seems to be to do a search of all recent posts by Mace, then breathlessly look for some nitpicking little tidbit he can use trying to get over, relevance to or actual context of the topic be damned.

It's not working.

Damn Mace, how's it feel knowing you've got an angry ankle biter stalking your every move?

Probably about the same way I felt about Kaley.

Mace wrote:I kind of enjoy the ankle biters if I have the time to post....and, at present, I've got nothing but time. I'd prefer to have someone slightly more intelligent that Kierland/TVO latched to my ankle, simply because it makes it a bit more interesting but...geez...Kierland makes KN look like a rocket scientist. Kierland seems to have forgotten that nipping at someone's ankle leaves him vulnerable to a kick in the mouth. Hope he's wearing a mouthpiece.

Well Mace, at this point in the game, it appears as though the 'gutless little fella' has scurried back into hiding. Guess that's what happens when a 'tardlette like him gets a mouthful of bloodied teefuses. The upside is, the Kierlands of the various smackboards typically come back for more abuse.

The clock is ticking.