T1B

Why a savior?

As is recorded, man left God, became spiritually captured by satan, and went into a cursed life.
Man became a being of heartbreak.
Despite best efforts or intentions, trouble inevitably comes to man.
Anxiety, strife, conflict, physical problems, disasters ...

These things come crashing in.
Everyone from Adam is caught up here, with no way out at all.

God knew this and immediately, after man became captured, promised the seed of the woman who would crush the head of satan and liberate man.

Jesus is this Christ, the seed of the woman.

The way, truth and life.


Merry Christmas!

RACK it pops.

Here's another thought...

Sounds very much like what the Jews said before they sought to have Jesus Christ killed.

Their expectations of what the Savior would be were not seen in Jesus.

And yet Jesus perfectly fulfilled all Old Testament Scripture.


Without a doubt, Jesus is the Christ.

Apparently you didn't read the fine print.

He was sent to earth to save mankind.

He didn't say WHEN he would do that.

The anticipation has been great for bible sales and holy wars, though.

If you're interested you can give Matthew 9 and 12 a read.


http://kingjamesbible.com/B40C009.htm

http://kingjamesbible.com/B40C012.htm


In Matthew 9, the teachers of the law were demanding a "sign" from Jesus, saying "Show us your authority."
He then healed a man right in front of them.

In Chapter 12, He healed a man with a shriveled hand right in front of them.
The he cast out demon right in front of the Pharisees.

And then, the Pharisees demanded a sign from Him. lol

He had already shown them MANY signs.

They were in denial.

Read His reply in Matthew 12:39,40.


You want a "sign" from Jesus Christ, when it is ABUNDANTLY clear that He uniquely and FULLY fulfilled all of the Old Testament.

He has shown himself to be the Christ.

Except for the "saving mankind" part.

And the Gospel of Matthew was targeted for a Jewish audience, was written 50-60 years after Jesus died, and Matthew the actual Disciple did not even write it.

Odd how tales grow in the telling...

Bushice wrote:Except for the "saving mankind" part.

If one is oriented physically they may not see any salvation.
This is why the Jews missed Christ, who so very clearly fulfilled all of the Old Testament -- they were thinking in physical terms.

And if you look (Genesis 3:7) at what happened IMMEDIATELY after man became deceived into leaving God, you see that his eyes became opened and he noticed that he was naked.
Prior to that he didn't even take note that he was naked.
Man became physically oriented.
And that is our nature today.

I'll say the following, because nothing is more important ...

Man was created in God's image.
God is spirit (John 4:24).
Man was set apart from ALL other creation in that he is a spiritual and eternal being, like God.

But by the incident in Genesis 3, man became spiritually captured by satan -- and man became physically oriented, thinking and looking in physical terms rather than spiritual terms.
Man became a being of failure.
It's inevitable.
If failure hasn't gripped you yet, it will, undoubtedly.
It is your fate.

This is why Jesus told the Pharisees that a man must be ... born again.
And they fumbled around with the concept, thinking again, in PHYSICAL terms, saying it is not possible for a human to have TWO births.

But of course Jesus was speaking of the SPIRITUAL birth that one must have by receiving HIM, at which time God's spirit, the spirit of LIFE, comes into a person, and their fate changes forever.

Prior to that, a person is dead man walking.


This is the truth.

How Perfect.

Promise them something you NEVER have to prove exists, make them believe that they believe in it, then let them resume destroying each other for centuries without end like the animals they are. Awesome sales job, that was. Is.

But outside of that, all of the words you wrote were from stories written by men who believed in a supernatural creator being, for men who want to believe in something greater than them.

In every human culture I have ever heard spoken of there is a deity of some kind that is worshipped as a creator, punisher, rewarder etc.

God happens to be yours.

poptart wrote:http://kingjamesbible.com

Funny, funny shit.


Yeah, it's fairly easy for Jesus to "fufill the Old Testament" -- when said "Old Testament" was written 1600 years after the fact.


Give me a shot at writing a "history" book centuries after the fact, and I'll put fucking Nostradamus to shame.


Rather than dwelling on the King James, you should crack a dictionary -- you'll be suprised to hear that Webster has removed the word "gullible" from it.

Dinsdale wrote:

poptart wrote:http://kingjamesbible.com

Funny, funny shit.


Yeah, it's fairly easy for Jesus to "fufill the Old Testament" -- when said "Old Testament" was written 1600 years after the fact.


Give me a shot at writing a "history" book centuries after the fact, and I'll put fucking Nostradamus to shame.


Rather than dwelling on the King James, you should crack a dictionary -- you'll be suprised to hear that Webster has removed the word "gullible" from it.

Very good point.

The king gave the translators instructions designed to guarantee that the new version would conform to the ecclesiology and reflect the episcopal structure of the Church of England and its beliefs about an ordained clergy. The translation was by 47 scholars, all of whom were members of the Church of England.

I'd really like to see Pop spin his way around this concept. NO WAY that the original "bible" survived that mess of narrowmindedness.

mvscal wrote:So when does he start work?

I figure he'll hit the ground running on January 20.

Dinsdale wrote:Yeah, it's fairly easy for Jesus to "fufill the Old Testament" -- when said "Old Testament" was written 1600 years after the fact.

The Old Testament was entirely written well before the birth of Jesus Christ.

Again, You are forgetting the translation issue. BIG problem.

Isaiah 7:14. Matthew[sic] uses this prophecy as the cornerstone of his Gospel, quoting Isaiah as saying, “Behold, the virgin shall be with child.” However, the word Matthew translated as "virgin" would be more accurately translated “young woman.”

The Jews had a very specific word for virgin (bethulah), but it was not the word Isaiah chose (ha-almah).

If it can be shown that even one prophecy is incorrect, it is not that big a stretch to see how centuries of time, a change in culture, language, and customs, and interpretations by fervent believers who want people of the newer age to more clearly understand what THEY see can warp fact to fit fiction.

Works EVERY time.

When there is no possible explanation and the facts are clear, silence reigns.

I don't agree with what you are saying about Isaiah 7:14, Bushice.

I just wasn't inclined to get into a long discussion about that here.

I'M not saying it. There are dozens of unaffiliated individuals with PHDs in ancient languages and the bible, and THEY have come to this conclusion, not me.

Many noted biblical scholars and archeologists have agreed that the loose translations of the modern day bible, reinterpreted over the centuries, do not accurately reflect life and language during the time of Jesus.

Another example is the final supper. It wasn't in a fancy upper room of a building, it was on a rooftop house on mats, which was very common among the people jesus lived with at that time.

So much of what you believe has been engineered by those who wanted to make Christianity a dominant existent force and it has been fed to you from birth. It was fed to me as well, I just learned to see past the inaccuracies and deception of it all and face the reality. It is a book on how to live well, not eternally. That crap was added by people who wanted it to be so, along with all of the mysteries and miracles.

Church leaders and ghost writers created the modern day version of Jesus and the bible. What you believe in is an extremely watered down and perverted version of the original, lost in time.

But you go on living in that fantasy world if it gets you through the day. You look for proof of the bible in the bible, I looked for proof outside of that, to educated people who were interested in pursing fact not faith, and I found more accurate and believable answers.

The entire Old Testament (from Genesis 3:15 to the end) is about the Christ who will come.

Are you saying that there will be some Christ other than Jesus, or are you saying that there will be no Christ at all?

That part of the book has been reinterpreted, translated and modified as well.

It reflects what you want to hear, though, which is good for you I suppose.

There was a Christ. He was a healer, and according to mvscal, a raging homo. He died almost 2k years back.

I'll stick with just the healer part.

He won't be back.

Sorry you had to find out this way.

Link?

You can't just dump a turd like that without backing it up with some proof of some type.

Mister Bushice wrote:... backing it up with some proof ...

Uhhh...this is the Theology Forum.

Oh, the irony.

Don't be a smart ass. You know what I mean. he's basing it on something written somewhere, or else he is full of shit about it and trolling.