T1B

Texas managed pretty well, though they lost Jarvis Jones and Dre Kirkpatrick, who were the only two guys who were really still in play for UT. They pretty much locked all their other guys up early.

Besides Texas though, woooo, where was the rest of the Big XII? Coming off this past season of notoriety I sure expcted to see more Big Names going to Big XII schools.

Nope.

OU had a really down class, for OU. Nebraska didn't even register a pulse. Mizzou got one guy, their in state guy.

Where were Taco Tech and Okie St?

Even A&M's top recruit is a chick.

All day long, it seemed like it was nothing but SEC teams landing everybody of note, along with USC, Ohio St and a few ACC teams.

Not a whole lot of noise out of the Big 10 either. Hardly a peep out of Penn St. Michigan managed decently.

ND made a big splash. They exceeded expectations.

In the Pac 10 USC was USC. UCLA and Stanford stepped it up big time. Stanford somehow managed to crush Cal. ASU got one monster. Nada though, from the rest of the conference.

Pretty much it was all SEC plus some USC, with hardly anything from those Big XII teams whose helmets lack cows with antennas.

I know none of this will really matter until we see how it all pans out a few years down the road but still when there's this much smoke there has to be a few fires. What the fuck just happened, that the SEC just killed everyone and the Big XII basically vanished??

If nothing else, hey, props to The Meatgrinder. If even half of the people selected across the country today pan out then the 'Grinder dominated today.

You didn't drop Mizzou's name...

I shall ignore this, even though I trust we did alright.

War Wagon wrote:You didn't drop Mizzou's name...

Huh?

Mizzou got one guy, their in state guy.

WW, why would you "trust you did alright?" On what do you base such blind faith? What, are you a religious zealot too?

This is Missouri we're talking about here. Missouri Fans' birthright is a Big XII cleat mark permanently scoring their oddly oversized forehead.

Your main rival is Kansas...in football. The Missouri/Kansas rivalry is like the debate between Mississippi and Arkansas over who's dumber, with the only difference being that in the case of Missouri vs Kansas the rivals are quite a bit fatter and considerably less interesting.

You had one season of fresh air and it was based entirely on smoke and mirrors. Now it's gone. No more Cheetos and Slim Fast empties in the locker room and back you go to perennial doormat status.

I would think that lacking any solid evidence to the contrary the natural inclination of a rational Missouri fan (I know, but work with me here) following LOI day would be to assume that the sky is falling.

Tech and Poke State are usually in the 25-35 range. Nebraska had a decent class coming off the last two years and coaching change. ATM had a very solid class for following up a losing season. not that big a deal, if you ask me.

OU slipping out of the top 10 is not optimal, but hey. sites other than Rivals have Jamarcus McFarland, Ronnell Lewis, and Gabe Lynn as 5 star guys....rivals has them as 4.

a pretty good class is getting Bradford, Gresham, Gerald McCoy, and Trent Williams back and a healthy DeMarco Murray.... :?

KC, LSU had a bad year or two recently too, plus a coaching change.

Nebraska has no excuse. Minus an Urban Meyer infusion Nebraska is done as a national power, or even a regional one.

Okie St and Taco Tech might normally have these types of classes but they aren't normally coming off these types of seasons. If ever they were going to kill it in the recruiting wars this should've been the year.

Instead they were both irrelevant today.

Doesn't bode well. Right when I was expecting a greater evening of the playing field it instead sure felt like a large seismic tilt towards the southeast occured today...

Van wrote:KC, LSU had a bad year or two recently too, plus a coaching change.

I'm not sure that's the best comparison. LSU loses a coach who won an NC at LSU to the NFL and hired Les Miles (who could win the next 8 glass footballs and i'll still think he's a baboon)...but it was a high-caliber hire. Nebraska, on the other hand, goes from Frankie Solich and decades of tradition to a botched hiring process, an NFL re-tread and Grade AAA asshole in Callahan who snake-oils huskerfan for 4 years and then a retro-fit in Pelini.

but, i agree NU has some real obstacles to overcome if they are going to climb back to the top 5, top 10 type program rarefied air.

NU's bad years were ones (more than one) in which the whole identity of the program was at stake, LSU's bad years (this year, i guess) were a function of being young.

LOI Day? How fucking bored are we?

Congrats Bama on winning this mythical paperchampionship two years running.

I'm sure you'll still destined to becoming Floriduh's actual bitch two years running.

And Cal's, of course.

Les Miles (who could win the next 8 glass footballs and i'll still think he's a baboon)...

Bwaaa!!!

(I totally agree, btw.)

Though it didn't pan out like they'd hoped the Bill Callahan hire was at the time every bit as much of a "high caliber hire" as the LSU hiring of Les Miles.

Les Miles was a relative unknown, with his brief tenure at Okie St being the only thing approaching a "high profile" HC gig on his resume. Callahan was an NFL head coach, and when a head coach fails for the Raiders it's usually (and usually correctly) not assumed to be the coach's fault.

It's only in hindsight that the Miles hiring seems to be a higher caliber hire than the Callahan hire.

Urban Meyer wasn't necessarily thought at the time to be the most earth shattering hire for Florida. He wasn't an unknown but he wasn't a Huge Name yet either. His main notoriety was simply due to ND's failed pursuit of him, following his one killer year at nearly invisible Utah. Nonetheless he managed to do a lot more to turn that thing around than Bo Pelini has with Nebraska.

Doesn't look like Pelini's going to get it turned around either, whereas Meyer or Pete Carroll, facing somewhat similar circumstances at USC as the ones Pelini faces at Nebraska, got it turned around almost instantly.

Nebraska landed zero five stars today, and only a scant few four stars. The talent gap between Nebraska and the UT/OU stranglehold is growing larger. It's getting worse, not better. At the rate things are going there Nebraska might as well be Colorado or Kansas St now. They're certainly closer to those programs than they are to UT or OU, with no end in sight.

Callahan was at best Nebraska's 4th choice. Miles won 24 games in his last 3 years at OSU and went to 3 bowls (and, of course, beat OU twice) out of a Big XII South that had two top 10 teams year in, year out with OU and UT and ATM was still a borderline top 25 team then...that's pretty good for the Pokes. The baboon also has a pretty impressive pedigree--played and was an assistant with Schembechler, was on Bill McCartney's staff at Colorado, a stint with the Dallas Cowboys.

As a college coach, Miles was going to get a good shot somewhere better than O State (like LSU). Callahan had already done what he'll be famous for....losing the Super Bowl and making his players quit on him.

i don't know if NU will ever make bradhuskers proud again, but it's too early to punch Pelini's card.

Nah, Callahan is now far more famous for the utter devastation he wreaked on Nebraska's defense than he is for anything that happened with the Raiders.

The Raiders are a continual litany of disasters. Nebraska isn't supposed to be a complete embarrassment, especially the Blackshirts.

Callahan's already back in the NFL with a cushy coordinator gig, IIRC. The NFL had no problem forgiving him his trespasses with the Raiders.

After what he did to Nebraska I seriously doubt CF will be so forgiving.

NSD will always be low drama for the Big 12, Texas has pretty much sold the in-state kids on early commitments so most of the top talent is taken off the market during their junior year. All the Big 12 schools will be getting lots of commitments over the next 2 months leaving few ships to offer after next December. The class Texas signed this year has pretty much been in place since last August, we added one late commitment and that was a DE that had a phenomenal senior year. Texas offered 4 out of state guys and got one of them.

The real drama will happen in the next two weeks when Texas has two junior days, we will get commitments from about 12 kids and another 6-8 more over the next 3 or 4 months.

Vito, I know, Texas did fine. I already said that.

It's the rest of the conference I'm talking about. Unlike Texas the rest of the conference didn't lock up Top 5 classes early and none of 'em (including Texas) did much at all today.

Just seems to me like the SEC really set themselves up for a nice continuation of their recent success, at the severe expense of nearly everybody else.

Maybe with USC, Ohio St, Texas, OU and a few SEC teams we're really seeing the results of the Haves vs the Have Nots. Unlike seemingly every other sport out there these days where parity rules and there's a different group of winning teams every year CF seems to moving in the opposite direction.

CF seems to be moving towards...dynasties. It's getting to be like the '70s all over again, which is pretty amazing considering there are now limits on the number of scholarship players teams can carry. If anything one would think CF ought ot be moving more towards parity, what with there being scholarship limits and so much high school talent spread out all over the country.

Sure seems though like the rich keep getting richer and the divide keeps growing.

I guess I shouldn't complain since I hate planned parity/mediocrity. I prefer dynasties in sports.

Gotta say though, somehow this all just feels a little...off. It doesn't quite feel right. Something doesn't feel entirely kosher.

Meh. It's probably just that pesto pizza I ate...

Actually, if you look at Neb's per-recruit average they had a pretty solid recruiting-year, better than several teams in the rivals top25 of recruiting. This was a LOUSY year for local talent in Nebraska. We started this class coming-off a 5-7 season. Plus it was Bo's first year of recruiting, there was going to be a growing-pain or two. I wasn't thrilled with our meh finish, thought we really could've done better at wr and d-line. But we got the #1 qb on our board and got some other guys ranked very high according our staff evals. Plus we recruited several walk-ons with real potential. I'm not giddy about the class but overall I'm fairly satisfied.

Van wrote:Unlike Texas the rest of the conference didn't lock up Top 5 classes early and none of 'em (including Texas) did much at all today.

You do realize how incredibly stupid that sounds, right?

In any case, not all schools care to play the drama card like the poodle. t.u. had their class already wrapped up. A&M had theirs. OU did well as usual and everyone else fell into their normal slots. Acting surprised that the SEC dominated the "recruiting war" is like acting surprised the sun rises every day ('sup BtH?). Outside of t.u., OU and A&M, the rest of the XII has not really shown up in the top 25 on a regular basis for the last 10 years or so. And like I said earlier, A&M has had top 25 and srpinkle in a couple top 10 or 15 classes the past 6 years and haven't done shit with them. These rankings are just a dog and pony show. I put zero stock in them.

The other thing to remember is that there is all this drama is created by the recruiting services so that people will tune in to their 15 minutes of fame. Do you think anyone gives a shit what Jeremy Crabtree and Tom Lubinbill think 363 days a year? I think Mack said it best yesterday when he was asked about the "Hat Drama" that all these kids do on TV.....

"I'd prefer to have someone commit to us and not do that hat thing...I don't get it.....wouldn't you rather have a kid that wants to be here? I would rather offer kids that want to be here and not one that has to make a decision over 5 schools on NSD. That means they wanted to be with us all along."

Mack is a big proponent of early signing. It makes sense. Let some kids sign in November or December. As Mack put it, "You have a ton of kids that love the drama and just want to take a free trip somewhere that they have no interest in playing football. It would save the schools a ton of travel money and we can concentrate on the kids that want to be here."

Basically, they are saying on ESPN that all the work that was done early does not matter as long as you get some idiot on TV pulling a hat to go to a school. I would take my class in by August than have to deal with all this other shit.

I think Utah shoots a big hole in the whole recruiting thing, I would take a strong senior lead team of 2-star and 3-star kids over a team of 4-star and 5-star sophs and juniors every time. Honestly, there is so little difference between a 3-star and a 5-star. Michael Huff and Aaron Ross were both 3-star guys in high school, Chris Simms was 5-star and Colt McCoy a 3-star after thought.

I've given up worrying about rankings, if the Texas coaches want a kid, then I figure he must be good.

BTW I think Nebraska had a damn good class especially since they got 3-star Andrew Green from SA Madison. He is the older brother of future 5-star stud Aaron Green, now that is a must have kid. His youtube video reminds me of that RB out of Florida that ended up at WVU. The big difference is this kid has no baggage.

Colorado's class was definitely a disappoinent. Pulling Kasa away from Florida was nice, but losing out on both Byron Moore and especially Diante Jackson stung. Ultimately, CU just needs to do better on the field if they want to see their recruiting improve.

I'm not going to pull out the "recruiting doesn't matter" card, because it obviously does. It might not win NCs, but it'll put you in the mix every year. Just look at SC for proof of that.

on the Colorado tip, i thought they'd sneak into the 30-35 range....so, that wasn't optimal. However, as an objective observer, they got some needs and weren't going to get star happy at QB or RB with Cody just a JR, the mercurial Hanson, and Ballenger doing whatever he does...2 other FR. at RB you've got Scott, Sumler (who came on), Stewart and Polk coming out of RS. logjams there, for better or worse, as per playing time.

on the upside for CU fan, Hawk is still getting positive spin in the Denver/Boulder media. the Camera is a cheerleader for the Mike Bohn AD....Hawk and bzdelik can do no wrong. any criticism is unfair at this point, is the Camera party line. After years and years of damning CU and Barney with faint praise and puffing Sonny Lubick and Fisher Deberry into the greatest coaches of all time and symbolic of absolute virtue (and thereby backhanding CU by implication).....now I think Sandy Clough wants to get sexed by Hawk in very real way. Too much manlove there.

Van,

Coupla points here.

On Taco Tech & Okie State, there are a few points here. The most significant, imho, is that each is little brother. Taco is little brother to Texas, and, to a lesser extent, aTm (although Taco has managed to close that gap somewhat in recent years). Okie State is little brother to Oklahoma. And neither of those is likely to change in the foreseeable future.

A second issue is location. Taco is located in a small city in the Texas panhandle, hundreds of miles from any of the major metro areas of Texas (as Schmick noted, Taco is only about 100 miles closer to the Cotton Bowl than Ole Miss). Stillwater, OK is also a middle-of-nowhere type location.

Both schools, particularly Taco, certainly are capable of putting together the occasional season that will make you sit up and take notice. But it's unlikely that either will ever step up to the national power level, or even anything remotely close thereto. For the most part, the norm for these teams will be mediocrity (Tech) or something slightly less (Okie State).

As for Nebraska, a different scenario. Imho, at least to some extent, Nebraska is a victim of its past success. Nebraska's fanbase still believes it can win with the Osborne-style offense. Of course, the game has changed so much that no team, and no coach, under any circumstances, can win consistently against the big boys with that type of offense anymore.

I do remember Callahan being about the fourth choice for Nebraska's head coach, but then again, Carroll was about that for USC as well. So that alone shouldn't have been a predictor of his success, or lack thereof. And I do recall bradhuskers (admittedly not the best representative of Nebraska's fanbase) being positively giddy at the thought of Callahan installing the West Coast Offense.

The trick is to find a coach who can modernize the Nebraska offense, yet still show the proper respect for the rest of Nebraska's traditions. Callahan just wasn't the guy to handle that particular job. Time will tell if Pelini is. If he isn't, allow me to submit a suitable candidate: Turner Gill.

Make no mistake about it, Gill can flat-out coach. He took a program that was among the dregs of Division 1-A when he arrived, and in three short years, he turned them into a legitimate conference title contender. He won't compete for national titles with Carroll or Meyer, of course, but on a level (or even more level) playing field, who knows? And I suspect Nebraska would be Gill's dream job.

I'm not nominating Gill on the basis of any selfish reasons. Matter of fact, for purely selfish reasons, I would prefer that Gill either stay put (which undoubtedly would benefit college football in my portion of the U&R), or alternatively, that ND give him a good hard look as a successor to Weis (although I know many members of ND's fanbase would have significant trepidations about him, and even I would be reluctant to hire a guy who I know would leave if a particular different opportunity would present itself). I just happen to think he might be the perfect guy for Nebraska's head coaching job. That having been said, Pelini just completed one year on the job, so a little patience is in order.

Another possible problem for Nebraska is the increasing regionalization of college football. I remember the Nebraska-Oklahoma game being nationally televised just about every year when I was a kid. College football is a much more regional game today than it was back then, and has even become notably more regional today than it was during Nebraska's last huge run (mid-late 90's). Of course, Nebraska is a small state, so Nebraska needs to be able to recruit effectively on a regional, if not national, basis in order to remain competitive. I'm not 100% sure they can do that in this day and age, but they do have a lot of tradition in their favor.

Terry in Crapchester wrote:And I do recall bradhuskers (admittedly not the best representative of Nebraska's fanbase) being positively giddy at the thought of Callahan installing the West Coast Offense.

Dude, :brad: was a troll. I hate the use of this phrase, but tell me you knew...

King Crimson wrote:

Van wrote:KC, LSU had a bad year or two recently too, plus a coaching change.

I'm not sure that's the best comparison. LSU loses a coach who won an NC at LSU to the NFL and hired Les Miles (who could win the next 8 glass footballs and i'll still think he's a baboon)

Did you Les Miles interview where he said that players went to LSU for the "great academics" and "internationally recognized degree" that a student would get from LSU. US News ranks LSU 130th behind such outstanding educational institutions as UC Riverside, Pacific University in Stockton, Arizona State, Washington State, Arkansas.... LSU managed a score of 32 out of a possible 100.
Its amazing that troglodyte can keep a straight face when he says the stupid shit he says, either a great actor or he really is that stupid.

IndyFrisco wrote:

Terry in Crapchester wrote:And I do recall bradhuskers (admittedly not the best representative of Nebraska's fanbase) being positively giddy at the thought of Callahan installing the West Coast Offense.

Dude, :brad: was a troll. I hate the use of this phrase, but tell me you knew...

Oh, I knew (hence my parenthetical comment above). But I also know it's nearly impossible to troll 100% of the time.

I couldn't do it, that's for sure.

A troll in that someone else, from a different school, had the keys to :brad: . It is not indicative of ANY of Nebraska's fanbase. Dude was just making fun of the 'sker fanbase.

Then again, SECBSH here sure seems to represent their fanbase so you have a point.

Carry on.

Terry's post is mostly right-on. i won't quote it all here....though Taco is not really in the Texas panhandle. Still remote, and windy, but not Dalhart or Dumas....by any means. Lubbock is civilization, still, mostly. heh.

they have a really good golf course.

I think Nebraska can still be a top team, but they need to get in Texas or Ohio or somewhere (Dr. Tom had a pipeline out of New Jersey). the roided up farm kids working out for 5 years isn't going to do it anymore.

OSU does well in Texas with "B" recruits and steal a couple number 1's. for all the guff OU gets for Texans on it's roster, look at OSU. I did this research once, OU usually averages about 35-40% Texans on a yearly roster, OSU was well above 50% the last two years. i think despite all the Texan complaining, the key stat in a region is recruits within/outside 500 miles of campus.....and probably media markets.

i've seen the 500 mile research done by someone with way too much time, that 80% of recruits stay withing 500 miles of their home, with state-lines almost a non-factor.

Terry in Crapchester wrote:As for Nebraska, a different scenario. Imho, at least to some extent, Nebraska is a victim of its past success. Nebraska's fanbase still believes it can win with the Osborne-style offense. Of course, the game has changed so much that no team, and no coach, under any circumstances, can win consistently against the big boys with that type of offense anymore.

I hope you know the read option is so very close to what Osborne's option game used to be. When the right personnel (i.e. Tommy Frazier) and the execution is spot on, (NU-Florida 1996), that offense would still kick ass today.
As for the fanbase longing for the old "41 Pitch". I don't believe NU fan feels like they long for that offense. I find it funny the national perception believes Nebraska fans want the old option back. Just not true.

The trick is to find a coach who can modernize the Nebraska offense, yet still show the proper respect for the rest of Nebraska's traditions. Callahan just wasn't the guy to handle that particular job. Time will tell if Pelini is. If he isn't, allow me to submit a suitable candidate: Turner Gill.

Shawn Watson has the offense. Pelini isn't even remotely involved with that side of the ball. Yes he's ultimately responsible for the end result, but he's not scheming or game planning.

Turner is just too much of a reach at this time for a big name school. He's done well, just not long enough. Let's see how he does with a new QB, Willy did alot for that team. Crap he fired his D-coordinator Jimmy Williams, another NU grad.

Make no mistake about it, Gill can flat-out coach.

I'm thinking more along the lines as motivator. I say the verdict is still out as an outstanding coach.

Another possible problem for Nebraska is the increasing regionalization of college football. I remember the Nebraska-Oklahoma game being nationally televised just about every year when I was a kid. College football is a much more regional game today than it was back then, and has even become notably more regional today than it was during Nebraska's last huge run (mid-late 90's). Of course, Nebraska is a small state, so Nebraska needs to be able to recruit effectively on a regional, if not national, basis in order to remain competitive. I'm not 100% sure they can do that in this day and age, but they do have a lot of tradition in their favor.

Agree, I believe the success of teams such as Rutgers, Cincinnati, S. Florida, hold kids in the regions that once had a surplus of recruitable kids for old powerhouse schools.
However be sure to note Nebraska is a small state by population only, spend a day driving I-80 from Iowa to Colorado and you'll never think of Nebraska as a small state! Factor in boring as well.

IndyFrisco wrote:A troll in that someone else, from a different school, had the keys to :brad: . It is not indicative of ANY of Nebraska's fanbase. Dude was just making fun of the 'sker fanbase.

Coupla points here.

First, I don't claim to be an expert on trolling by any stretch of the imagination, which is why I don't try to do it.

Second, I have little exposure to the Husker fanbase myself. From what I have seen on this board, most of the legitimate Husker fans on this board seem to be stand-up guys. And from other fans who should know (i.e., Sooner fans), I have heard nothing but good things about Husker fans.

That having been said, parody to me implies at least a kernel of truth (see SECBSH). With the possible exception of the cornfed stud schtick, I never saw that in Brad's act, although it's possible, for the reasons above, that I simply missed it.

IndyFrisco wrote:

Van wrote:Unlike Texas the rest of the conference didn't lock up Top 5 classes early and none of 'em (including Texas) did much at all today.

You do realize how incredibly stupid that sounds, right?

In any case, not all schools care to play the drama card like the poodle. t.u. had their class already wrapped up. A&M had theirs. OU did well as usual and everyone else fell into their normal slots. Acting surprised that the SEC dominated the "recruiting war" is like acting surprised the sun rises every day ('sup BtH?). Outside of t.u., OU and A&M, the rest of the XII has not really shown up in the top 25 on a regular basis for the last 10 years or so. And like I said earlier, A&M has had top 25 and srpinkle in a couple top 10 or 15 classes the past 6 years and haven't done shit with them. These rankings are just a dog and pony show. I put zero stock in them.

Put zero stock in them all you want...



The fact remains that the best teams over the past decade or so (USC, Texas, OU, Florida, LSU, Ohio St) are the teams that have consistently dominated the recruiting wars. This includes both early signings and LOI day.

Sure, when all the stars align just right a team which doesn't have the benefit of a slew of top recruiting classes can still burp up the occasional great season. Well, except for Cal, obviously.

If a team is to achieve sustained excellence though, ie, a Top 10 team every year, then they have to have consistently dominating recruiting classes.

No two ways around it.

Though no one knows how all these kids will turn out there is very obviously a strong correlation between presumed recruiting success and on the field success.

Look at this year's class rankings. The Big XII has precisely one team in the Top 10. This does NOT bode well for the Big XII, especially following a year where they were the media darlings. The Big XII was supposed to be the best conference this year and they obviously weren't able to capitalize on this success at all.

Meanwhile the 'Grinder just stomped everyone. LSU killed it again. So did Florida. Bama is coming like a motherfucker. Sure, some of those kids will amount to nothing but the SEC pounded everybody so badly that just through sheer numbers they're going to end up coming out ahead again on the field.

The Big XII is going to fall behind, especially when conference stalwarts like Nebraska see their fans feeling perfectly okay about hovering somewhere near the Top 25 classes.

Bama wasn't going to be okay with Nick coming in and merely hovering around the Top 25. Neither was Florida, with Meyer. Neither was USC. Michigan sure isn't going to accept that from DickRod. These programs want and duly expect immediate results.

The Big XII? They're okay with A&M's excuses and Nebraska's lowered expectations.

OU hasn't shown the ability to pull their own weight in big games. Only Texas has, of late, in the Big XII. So, with the way things are going and with the way things panned out this year look to see an increase in the growing divide between the Haves (USC, the top SEC teams, Texas, OU and Ohio St) and the Have Nots (everyfuckingbody else.)

OU had damn well better win something here very soon or else Texas will well and truly overtake them, reducing the field of Haves by one.

nice edit from "SEC teams" to "top SEC teams".

Van,

I put zero stock in them because I am an Aggie fan. My team has consistently been in the Top 25 and like I said, some top 10 and 15 classes with nothing but sitting on the couch watching other teams bowl to show for it. It's not what you have. It's what you do with it, and we ain't done jack shit. You could have 4 dicks, but unless you got something slippery, wet and pink to put them in, you just have to jack off 4 times as much.

Comprende?

Terry, whether Turner Gill can "flat out coach" or not is mostly irrelevant, especially if the object is to overhaul a huge program like Nebraska's.

Guys who can coach well are a dime a dozen. Sure, it's an important prerequisite to success but even there it can be overcome simply due to the fact that so much of hands on coaching these days is delegated.

What, you think JoePa and Bobby Bowden can still flat out coach? At this point they're mostly just figure heads. They obviously have some damn good assistant coaches though, especially JoePa.

No, the far more important thing is whether or not a coaching candidate can flat out recruit. Turner Gill hasn't yet demonstrated that skill. Being stuck at Buffalo, he hasn't had the opportunity.

Recruiting, that's Job 1. Putting superior talent on the field, year in and year out, that's far more important than Xs and Os.

If Urban Meyer or Pete Carroll were coaching Baylor they'd initially get their asses kicked by Les Miles and LSU. They'd also turn Baylor into a good team, very quickly.

Recruiting on its own obviously isn't enough, as fans of ND, Michigan and Florida St have discovered. You still have to have coaches who can motivate. You still have to have superior schemes. Superior players need to know the right things to do, and they have to be drilled into doing those things automatically.

Minus the recruiting edge though you'll never see consistent success. A Utah or a Boise St season might turn up for you every now and again, especially if you play in a shitty conference, but if you're at Nebraska or you're in the SEC you're going to have to find a way to consistently overcome the recruiting prowess of Nick Saban, Urban Meyer, Les Miles and Mack Brown.

That's why Tennessee brought in Lane Kiffin, who immediately brought in Ed Orgeron. These are two of the very best recruiters in the country.

It's all about the ability to recruit. It's all about Bama, before and after Nick Saban. In just two seasons that guy has already completely locked down his state. Auburn is now irrelevant in the landscape of CF. They will no longer be able to compete, not with the talent divide Saban has quickly created in that state. It's only going to get worse now for Auburn, with each Saban recruiting class.

No matter how good Gene Chizik might be as a coach, it doesn't matter. They can no longer hope to recruit against Bama. Auburn is dead in the water.

You watch. One of three things will happen with Auburn now...

-They will honorably descend into permanent mediocrity. Not likely. 'Spray won't stand for that.

-They will quickly shitcan Chizik and then they'll back up the Brinks truck to the door of the latest hot shot coach whom they hope will be their own Nick Saban.

-They will stick with Chizik and they'll suddenly get good again, followed shortly thereafter by NCAA sanctions. They'll have to blatantly cheat to try to keep up with Saban, in state.

Terry, I don't know how well TG will turn out as a coach. I do know however that there are very good reasons why I wouldn't hire him to resurrect a dormant Nebraska program. Rightly or wrongly, Nebraska wants to see themselves as still being on the level of Texas and OU.

Turner Gill will not get them there, not right now. Nebraska needs a Nick Saban, an Urban Meyer, a Pete Carroll. They need someone who will come in and instantly transform the entire culture of the program, and it must begin with flat out domination in the recruiting wars.

King Crimson wrote:nice edit from "SEC teams" to "top SEC teams".

An important distinction, no?

Besides, even lower echelon SEC teams still kicked major butt in this year's recruiting wars. The point though is Nebraska aspires to be an upper echelon Big XII team again.

Well, fine. Look at the top teams in the SEC. Look at USC. Look at Texas, OU and Ohio St.

The thing all these teams have in common isn't head coaching prowess. Pete Carroll couldn't be more different as a person or as a coach than Jim Tressell, who couldn't be more different than Les Miles.

It isn't school stature or tradition either. Nebraska has every bit as much tradition and prominence as any other program. They have quite a bit more than Florida or LSU, in fact.

No, it all boils down to one thing: recruiting. The teams who are at the top every year are the teams who dominate recruiting every year. These programs cannot accept Danimal's meek acquiescence to Nebraska's crappy recuiting classes. These programs demanded what Meyer and Saban promised, and those guys immediately delivered on the promise with instant Top 5 recruiting classes. They've never gotten off the gas and look where those programs are now.

Does anybody have any doubt that Texas, Florida and LSU will continue to stay where they've been of late, as long as they keep burping up these recruiting classes? More importantly, does anybody doubt that after such a long dormant spell Bama is now back, and they're back for good, just as long as Saban sticks around to keep piling up these recruiting classes? Or USC, for that matter?

These teams aren't going anywhere. Pencil them in every damn year because they just keep reloading.

If your team cannot recruit with these guys then your team will not be able to consistently play with these guys.

IndyFrisco wrote:Van,

I put zero stock in them because I am an Aggie fan. My team has consistently been in the Top 25 and like I said, some top 10 and 15 classes with nothing but sitting on the couch watching other teams bowl to show for it. It's not what you have. It's what you do with it, and we ain't done jack shit. You could have 4 dicks, but unless you got something slippery, wet and pink to put them in, you just have to jack off 4 times as much.

Comprende?

Read what you just wrote. Try to spot the logic in it.

Like you say, A&M consistently burps up a class that's in the Top 25. Occasionally they produce a Top 15 class.

Well, guess what? Those numbers fairly correspond with A&M's annual on the field performance. A&M does in fact usually hover around the tail end of the Top 25, with the occasional peek at the Top 15.

A&M never cracks the Top 5 and they rarely fall to 75th or some shit either. They're a middle of the road recruiting school so they're a middle of the road program. They get about what they deserve, based on what they recruit.

We can argue the specifics of their recruiting classes vs their performances. From year to year I'm sure there are the occasional discrepancies.

Nothing too out of whack though. They're definitely not an ND, FSU or a Michigan; ie, teams who regularly underperform despite the benefit of annual Top 10 recruiting classes.

Anyway, if it's not a matter of constantly benefitting from highly ranked recruiting classes then how else can you explain the consistent recent success of USC, Texas, OU, Ohio St and the top SEC teams?

Van wrote:If your team cannot recruit with these guys then your team will not be able to consistently play with these guys.

And if you can't coach the fine recruits, you can't consistently win. Use the A&M examples I've given. Use Florida with Zook/Meyer. Meyer wins with the same Zook talent while Zook got fired because he couldn't do anything with it. John Blake was a good recruiter for OU, but they sucked under his tenure. Stoops took Blake's talent and won a championship.

You say recruiting wins games. I say winning games brings in recruits. It's a chicken and egg comparison. Either way, you need both good coaching and good recruiting.

It's not a chicken/egg thing.

Superior talent with marginal coaching will consistently beat inferior talent with better coaching.

Coaching can be delegated. Talent can't.

JoePa was one play away from playing for a national championship and he can barely avoid crapping himself on the sidelines..when he even bothers to be on the sidelines. He doesn't coach Penn St's talent, his assistants do.

Ron Zook's Florida classes weren't as consistently dominant as Meyer's have been. LSU never won squat until Saban came along. Miles' classes have been just as strong. Bama had been DOA until Saban came along.

USC used to have good recruiting classes before Pete Carroll arrived. Good, but not Pete Carroll good. Since he arrived they've consistently had the best classes in the country and they've been the consistently best team in the country.

Agan, I won't say that coaching has nothing to do with on field success. Of course it does. It just doesn't have nearly as much to do with success as having superior talent.

Ask any coach and they'll say the same thing: superior talent makes for mighty smart coaches.

Van wrote: Like you say, A&M consistently burps up a class that's in the Top 25. Occasionally they produce a Top 15 class.

Well, guess what? Those numbers fairly correspond with A&M's annual on the field performance. A&M does in fact usually hover around the tail end of the Top 25, with the occasional peek at the Top 15.

Did you hit "Submit" on this post ten years ago?

Texas A&M hasn't finished in the final AP Top 25 since 1999.

Okay, fine...

Shoot me A&M's final AP rankings over the past twenty seasons, along with some sort of compilation of their class rankings over the same period.

Let's see how far off they are from each other. Maybe A&M fan does have an ND/FSU/Michigtan sized gripe.

However, if the results show an average 22nd class ranking and an average 27th AP ranking then it's much ado about nothing.

The main thing here is Indy still hasn't answered the basic question: If not for their consistenly dominant recruiting classes then how else can he explain the consistent recent success of USC, Texas, OU, Ohio St, Florida and LSU?

What else is it? Mack Brown certainly didn't dominate in his previous college gigs, the way he does at Texas. Neither did Les Miles, before LSU. Saban didn't kill everyone at Michigan St.

Urban Meyer, yeah, he's dominated as a HC pretty much everywhere he's been, relatively speaking.

The only thing these guys all have in common since coming to their current gigs is the undeniable success of their recruiting classes, year in and year out.

That's also the single reason they all would give if asked to explain their current success. They would of course use euphemistic buzz phrases like "quality kids" but the end result is they'd all tell you their success has been predicated on having talented kids in the program, every year.

The most talented kids...

Is it just me or did the Big XII get crushed today?

Hell I don't know, ask me this question in mid January of 2014. That will be after this class has used their 5 years to play 4 seasons. I will be happy to answer your question then.

Van wrote: No, it all boils down to one thing: recruiting. The teams who are at the top every year are the teams who dominate recruiting every year. These programs cannot accept Danimal's meek acquiescence to Nebraska's crappy recuiting classes. These programs demanded what Meyer and Saban promised, and those guys immediately delivered on the promise with instant Top 5 recruiting classes. They've never gotten off the gas and look where those programs are now.

Does anybody have any doubt that Texas, Florida and LSU will continue to stay where they've been of late, as long as they keep burping up these recruiting classes? More importantly, does anybody doubt that after such a long dormant spell Bama is now back, and they're back for good, just as long as Saban sticks around to keep piling up these recruiting classes? Or USC, for that matter?

i think danimal is right. The bugeaters had a good class. where was USC in the Hackett years? Texas under Mackovic? OU with Blake**? things happen. nebraska does not have the luxury that florida or usc does in terms of backyard talent. so, the generalizations sound nice but ignore structural realities. i don't want to get too far into the Nebraska fan myth of farm kids and such (because a lot of it is bullshit) but the huskers haven't really EVER done it with blue chip recruits across the board.

**btw, John Blake's classes at OU that are so often hailed as so "great" in the national media and your local homer board and Stoops winning with Boo's players....which is horseshit.... were all in the 20-30 range. wasn't like ol' Boo was pulling top 5 classes.

I didn't follow recruiting in the '80s or '90s, so I don't really know where Nebraska's classes used to be ranked, but I don't think it's the coaching changes that have hurt them as much as the fact that everyone else has caught up with them in terms of facilities. Back in the '80s/'90s, Nebraska was pretty much the standard bearer in terms of weight rooms, training facilities and whatnot. As much as people lionize Osborne, I would say that, outside of in-the-know Husker fans, Boyd Epley isn't given nearly enough credit for Nebraska's sustained success throughout those two decades. Now that numerous major schools have caught up to NU in the strength & conditioning department, NU doesn't have that trump card to fall back on anymore. Spending 4-5 years in Lincoln might've been tolerable if you knew that you would be working with the best S&C facilities in the nation, but now you can find that in Los Angeles or Austin or Gainesville or any number of other better places to live than Lincoln fucking Nebraska. I think that's probably the biggest hurdle Nebraska has to overcome. Now they're just another school in a shitty, cold small town. While it might not seem that long ago to us, to the kids that are coming out of high school right now, the '90s are ancient history. I just don't see Nebraska ever getting back to where they were - consistently winning 9-10 games year in and year out. I'm not sure if that's what Husker fans truly expect, but realistically, it's just not going to happen, even if you had Carrol as a DC, Meyer as an OC, and Dr. Tom himself walking the sidelines. Not too many kids want to spend 5 years of their life in Nebraska.

MiketheangrydrunkenCUfan wrote:Not too many kids want to spend 5 years of their life in Nebraska.

We're mostly gratified you decided not to. :P