T1B

looking at some of the classes schools signed yesterday it makes you wonder if they are all playing with the same scholarship limit. Isnt the limit on scholarships just 85? Here are a few of the schools already rostered numbers plus their signing class

Alabama. This season Alabama had 107 players, 22 over the scholarship limit, 11 were to run out of eligibility this season (96) and you have a couple who may be leaving early, at least one in A.Smith. How does that give them room to accept 27 LOI's on signing day, 120 players is 35 over the scholarship limit.

North Carolina brought in a huge class of 29 players, the Tar Hells had just 83 players on the roster though and 11 who had ran their eligibility out but that 29 still puts them 16 over the limit

Ohio State had 108, 26 who had ran their eligibility out, they then signed 25 more so now theyre just 22 over the limit.

Then you have schools like Nebraska that already had 142 players on their roster, they signed 21 more but 25 had their eligibility run out, theyre still 53 over their limit.

I understand that schools have walk ons but 30 walks ons.... 50 walk ons? If a walk on is getting any financial aid shouldnt that count a little towards the schools scholarship limit?

What is the scholarship limit, are schools bypassing the limits through giving grants to players on the football team that dont count against the 85?
USC had 78 players last year, 17 ran out of eligibility or left, they signed 19, they're still 5 players below the limit, is there some sort of cheat around the limit that other schools are using to add depth that the trojans need to look in to?

SoCalTrjn wrote:If a walk on is getting any financial aid

They're not. That's why they're called "walk-ons" you fucking idiot.

Screw_Michigan wrote:

SoCalTrjn wrote:If a walk on is getting any financial aid

They're not. That's why they're called "walk-ons" you fucking idiot.

In fairness, I'm pretty sure he's referring to other forms of financial aid -- Pell Grants, grants-in-aid through a state or an individual university's program, etc.

That having been said, counting such grants-in-aid as football scholarships is simply absurd. In all likelihood, the walk-ons would be receiving those even if they weren't walk-ons.

For example, as I've said before, I went through ND on a NROTC scholarship. Not what I really wanted to do, but there was no other way I could've afforded to go to ND. Anyway, there were two guys in my class at NROTC -- on scholarship for NROTC, mind you -- who were walk-ons on the football team. No way should they have been counted against ND's football scholarship limit, particularly since I don't recall either one ever seeing the playing field in an actual game. For them, they were happy just to dress for the game.

Or is Schmick proposing that the NCAA forbid any university to provide financial aid to any non-athlete?

That, of course, would be equally absurd.

I don't know all the specifics, but a scholarship isn't guaranteed for all 4/5 years you are there. Scholarships are on a year by year basis. Sometimes, they get pulled so the school can keep the 85 count.

Terry in Crapchester wrote:

Screw_Michigan wrote:

SoCalTrjn wrote:If a walk on is getting any financial aid

They're not. That's why they're called "walk-ons" you fucking idiot.

In fairness, I'm pretty sure he's referring to other forms of financial aid

Ease up on Schmick. As a USC fan, he's used to alternative methods of compensating players.

IndyFrisco wrote:I don't know all the specifics, but a scholarship isn't guaranteed for all 4/5 years you are there. Scholarships are on a year by year basis. Sometimes, they get pulled so the school can keep the 85 count.

Another factor: let's say a player suffers a career-ending injury and can't play anymore. I believe the NCAA now allows the university to honor his scholarship without it counting against the 85 limit.

That doesn't answer Schmick's question, of course, since those players would be dropped from the rosters. It does explain how a school can legitimately have more than 85 players on scholarship, though.

I was using my example of how they have say 85 on scholarship. They sign 10, but they can pull 10 scholarships to be back down to 85. The players who got theirs pulled can remain on the team and go to school, but they have to pay tuition at that point.

I'm not saying that any grant or aid should count towards the 85 limit but every schools use of those grants should be looked in to by the conferences and the NCAA. I have heard that schools have grants that they give to "walk ons" that dont count against their scholarship limit, I dont know if that is true but there should be some sort of limit on roster size to prevent schools from circumventing the scholarship limit rules.

I'm not saying that any grant or aid should count towards the 85 limit but every schools use of those grants should be looked in to by the conferences and the NCAA. I have heard that schools have grants that they give to "walk ons" that dont count against their scholarship limit, I dont know if that is true but there should be some sort of limit on roster size to prevent schools from circumventing the scholarship limit rules.

Wait, you want the NCAA to look into this kind of stuff? Are you crazy? You want the NCAA to make people follow the rules. If that's what you want then let's see what they find when looking into Chetey petey and these dance classes, free houses, cars etc......

SoCalTrjn wrote:I'm not saying that any grant or aid should count towards the 85 limit but every schools use of those grants should be looked in to by the conferences and the NCAA.

Maybe because the conference and NCAA is too busy sweeping things like family living arrangements under the rug to focus on the $500/semester pell grant some walk-on is getting.

SoCalTrjn wrote:looking at some of the classes schools signed yesterday it makes you wonder if they are all playing with the same scholarship limit. Isnt the limit on scholarships just 85? Here are a few of the schools already rostered numbers plus their signing class

Alabama. This season Alabama had 107 players, 22 over the scholarship limit, 11 were to run out of eligibility this season (96) and you have a couple who may be leaving early, at least one in A.Smith. How does that give them room to accept 27 LOI's on signing day, 120 players is 35 over the scholarship limit.

North Carolina brought in a huge class of 29 players, the Tar Hells had just 83 players on the roster though and 11 who had ran their eligibility out but that 29 still puts them 16 over the limit

Ohio State had 108, 26 who had ran their eligibility out, they then signed 25 more so now theyre just 22 over the limit.

Then you have schools like Nebraska that already had 142 players on their roster, they signed 21 more but 25 had their eligibility run out, theyre still 53 over their limit.

I understand that schools have walk ons but 30 walks ons.... 50 walk ons? If a walk on is getting any financial aid shouldnt that count a little towards the schools scholarship limit?

What is the scholarship limit, are schools bypassing the limits through giving grants to players on the football team that dont count against the 85?
USC had 78 players last year, 17 ran out of eligibility or left, they signed 19, they're still 5 players below the limit, is there some sort of cheat around the limit that other schools are using to add depth that the trojans need to look in to?

I have to agree on the Bama thing, I know they have this scholarship program called the Bryant scholarship, they give that to football players that are legacies of the Bear Bryant teams. Any kid whose father played for Bear is eligible for the Bryant scholarship. That kids is then considered a walk on and no on the 85 man roster until he plays in a game.

you could technically stick two players on one scholarship and make each responsible for half his tuition.

Laxplayer wrote:

I'm not saying that any grant or aid should count towards the 85 limit but every schools use of those grants should be looked in to by the conferences and the NCAA. I have heard that schools have grants that they give to "walk ons" that dont count against their scholarship limit, I dont know if that is true but there should be some sort of limit on roster size to prevent schools from circumventing the scholarship limit rules.

Wait, you want the NCAA to look into this kind of stuff? Are you crazy? You want the NCAA to make people follow the rules. If that's what you want then let's see what they find when looking into Chetey petey and these dance classes, free houses, cars etc......

::yawn::
Your asshole still hurt from your last confession with your priest?

IndyFrisco wrote:I don't know all the specifics, but a scholarship isn't guaranteed for all 4/5 years you are there. Scholarships are on a year by year basis. Sometimes, they get pulled so the school can keep the 85 count.

Athletic scholarships are nothing more than one year agreements with schools. Nothing is guaranteed after one season. Get injured, and you can be up sh!t creek. Some schools like RICE have another agreement that states the school will continue to fund the students tuition, fees, and books for the up to four years after their initial scholarship season if they are injured and unable to continue their football career. These agreements also have rules saying the athlete will be a good citizen, maintain grades, etc.

The NCAA does look at academic awards by schools to varsity athletes. There are many restrictions on those, and athletes are generally not able to accept those unless the same proportion of the general student body does. Most of these awards are done blindly by non athletic faculity, ie, supposedly those involved do not know that the person is a varsity athlete.

Further scholarships can be split as many times as the school and athletes will accept. The reason this isn't done much in football is because many families don't have the means to pay the remaining balances. It happens quite a bit in hockey, baseball, golf, swimming, etc, but these athletes tend to come from families with the ability to fund their kids college educations. Playing those sports takes money to begin with and lots of it to become a D-1 recruit.

Further, some schools have guys on the roster who have their tuition paid for by a professional team in another sport. Quan Cosby the Texas WR comes to mind. He just completed his 4 seasons at Texas and made contributions back in the Title season as a frosh. Dude wasn't a scholarship athlete though since he played pro baseball after HS. By rule he can not recieve scholarships.

Another thing is many athletes have parents who can afford a few grand per season and pay their athletes way thru college so that the school has more scholarships available. This is much more common at State schools where tuition and fees are more reasonable than at private schools. Again there were two examples this past season at Texas and Texas A&M of prominent players who you would be surprised are not by rule scholarship athletes.

Hope that clears a few things up, although I am afraid it is over the head of many of you.

::yawn::
Your asshole still hurt from your last confession with your priest?

Dude, why are you so into this molestation thing. Almost every post you make towards me has this connotation in it. Go get some therapy. I'm really worried about you. Besides we need you around to defend your board bitch title. Unlike $C you may actually win two in a row, and there's no playoff needed for this. It's unanimous.

Here's an idea...

SoCalTrjn goes all of 2009 without once bringing up Catholic priest sex when discussing ND.

Conversely, Lax goes all of 2009 without once dive bombing a single thread with a non sequitur diatribe oozing with envy and loathing of USC football.

SoCalTrjn sticks strictly to football takes and Lax sticks strictly to football takes. Bare minimum, they each only discuss their favorite topics when it's a natural part of a real discussion.

In so doing both parties drop their one trick pony character troll acts.

SoCalTrjn talks about recruiting and games that just took place and other CF related topics. Lax talks about, well, something other than USC...and his hatred of USC...and the latest USC related, unsubstantiated but oh so damning news (non)story.

Anybody think either guy could could manage it? How 'bout just for fifty posts, if not for the entire 2009 year?

Van wrote:Here's an idea...
SoCalTrjn sticks strictly to football takes

....and zebras will begin wearing spots tomorrow.

The Seer wrote:

Van wrote:Here's an idea...
SoCalTrjn sticks strictly to football takes

....and zebras will begin wearing spots tomorrow.

I'll at least give this to SoCalTrjn: His posts are more varied than Lax's.

At any given moment SoCalTrjn is likely to post about, oh, lessee here...

-Trojan football games
-Trojan football game failings
-Trojan football history
-Trojan football recruiting
-Trojan football player scandals, including "inside info" on what "really happened."
-His loathing of most other sports besides football
-The Pac 10's national championships, team by team
-The SEC's national championships, team by team
-The atrocity that is NCAA scheduling in general
-The SEC's horrible scheduling, specifically
-The SEC's bewilderment over those big silver birds in the sky
-Gay sex between Catholic priests and altar boys
-Gay sex with 'Spray, and vice versa
-Occasional snipes at "UcLabia" and "Kal"
-Constant snipes at ND, even of the nonsexual variety
-Fat jokes about Charlie Weis
-The superiority of living in Newport Beach
-His glorious life as George S. Patton, pushing his nine year old kids in a headlong frenzy to be the first to Berlin

All in all, I'd say that's a pretty busy day of posting.

Lax? Lax posts about only three things...

-Unprovoked sniping attacks at USC, where he suddenly and inexplicably drops into threads wherever the letters "USC" appear; his sole intent being to say something nasty about USC.

-Golf outings, including beer outings

-Unprovoked sniping attacks at USC, where he suddenly and inexplicably drops into threads wherever the letters "USC" appear; his sole intent being to say something nasty about USC.

Seriously. If USC didn't exist Lax would have little reason to even be registered here. Rarely does Lax post about his own team, ND. Rarely does Lax post about anything else to do with CF. If it's not about a golf outing or another completely out of left field swipe at USC he simply doesn't post.

So, yeah, I think we stand a better chance at seeing SoCalTrjn drop the Catholic priest sex shtick than we do of seeing Lax drop his ceaseless attacks on USC. SoCalTrjn at least has a dozen other topics with which he can regale us. He simply has to choose to leave aside the Catholic priest sex angle for a bit.

I'm not saying he will but he could, since he at least does have other toys with which he can play.

Van wrote: -Trojan football games
-Trojan football game failings
-Trojan football history
-Trojan football recruiting
-Trojan football player scandals, including "inside info" on what "really happened."
-His loathing of most other sports besides football
-The Pac 10's national championships, team by team
-The SEC's national championships, team by team
-The atrocity that is NCAA scheduling in general
-The SEC's horrible scheduling, specifically
-The SEC's bewilderment over those big silver birds in the sky
-Gay sex between Catholic priests and altar boys
-Gay sex with 'Spray, and vice versa
-Occasional snipes at "UcLabia" and "Kal"
-Constant snipes at ND, even of the nonsexual variety
-Fat jokes about Charlie Weis
-The superiority of living in Newport Beach
-His glorious life as George S. Patton, pushing his nine year old kids in a headlong frenzy to be the first to Berlin

Pretty accurate, except for two blatant omissions:

-Bitching about Pac 10 refs, whether USC wins or loses
-Jumping off the SC bandwagon because SC didn't play with "heart" en route to a loss. Then somehow summoning from deep, deep down the passion once again to bleed SC cardinal and gold after beating some shit Pac slappy 113-0 the very next week.

Wow Van, a little upset this morning. Didn't get your coffee? BVD's in a bunch?
I think I'm going to go call my priest and see if he's got some time for me today.

There ya' go, Lax! No mention of golf OR USC.

Awesome. Keep it rollin'.

Mgo, yep, I missed those. Those are definites. I'm sure there are others too, if we really try to noodle it through.

Van wrote:

The Seer wrote:

Van wrote:Here's an idea...
SoCalTrjn sticks strictly to football takes

....and zebras will begin wearing spots tomorrow.

I'll at least give this to SoCalTrjn: His posts are more varied than Lax's.

At any given moment SoCalTrjn is likely to post about, oh, lessee here...

-Trojan football games
-Trojan football game failings
-Trojan football history
-Trojan football recruiting
-Trojan football player scandals, including "inside info" on what "really happened."
-His loathing of most other sports besides football
-The Pac 10's national championships, team by team
-The SEC's national championships, team by team
-The atrocity that is NCAA scheduling in general
-The SEC's horrible scheduling, specifically
-The SEC's bewilderment over those big silver birds in the sky
-Gay sex between Catholic priests and altar boys
-Gay sex with 'Spray, and vice versa
-Occasional snipes at "UcLabia" and "Kal"
-Constant snipes at ND, even of the nonsexual variety
-Fat jokes about Charlie Weis
-The superiority of living in Newport Beach
-His glorious life as George S. Patton, pushing his nine year old kids in a headlong frenzy to be the first to Berlin

All in all, I'd say that's a pretty busy day of posting.

Lax? Lax posts about only three things...

-Unprovoked sniping attacks at USC, where he suddenly and inexplicably drops into threads wherever the letters "USC" appear; his sole intent being to say something nasty about USC.

-Golf outings, including beer outings

-Unprovoked sniping attacks at USC, where he suddenly and inexplicably drops into threads wherever the letters "USC" appear; his sole intent being to say something nasty about USC.

Seriously. If USC didn't exist Lax would have little reason to even be registered here. Rarely does Lax post about his own team, ND. Rarely does Lax post about anything else to do with CF. If it's not about a golf outing or another completely out of left field swipe at USC he simply doesn't post.

So, yeah, I think we stand a better chance at seeing SoCalTrjn drop the Catholic priest sex shtick than we do of seeing Lax drop his ceaseless attacks on USC. SoCalTrjn at least has a dozen other topics with which he can regale us. He simply has to choose to leave aside the Catholic priest sex angle for a bit.

I'm not saying he will but he could, since he at least does have other toys with which he can play.

Translation: Lax contributes much more worthwhile reading to this forum than Schmick.

Hey seer.....I sent you TPC dates. Can you make any of them?

thank you van....maybe I'll post about ND's or UCLA's recruiting class and just like most people who have never seen these kids play I'll come up with an evaluation of them.

Lax, actually, I can't recall a single person here who attempted to evaluate any of the current high school recruits. All anyone here does is pass along the current scouting reports and nearly without exception everyone here adds the caveat that we'll need to wait a few years before we'll truly know how well these kids panned out.

I know that, I'm just trying to spice things up by not mentioning you know what.......you know, give them more substance.

Look on the bright side, Lax. It's not like you've been banned from ever mentioning USC. Nobody's suggesting such a thing. USC football will often be in the headlines. You'll always have more than enough legitimate reasons and opportunities to mention them.

It's the non sequitur USC comments, the hit and run crap, the broken record hateful act...the one trick pony trolling. Those things would do well to vanish from your posting. That is, unless you want to be joined at the hip with SoCalTrjn.

Somehow I have a feeling you see yourself as being above that.

Oh dude, my pony has more than one trick........

Laxplayer wrote:Hey seer.....I sent you TPC dates. Can you make any of them?

At least one. Maybe more. See how work goes.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:

Van wrote: -Trojan football games
-Trojan football game failings
-Trojan football history
-Trojan football recruiting
-Trojan football player scandals, including "inside info" on what "really happened."
-His loathing of most other sports besides football
-The Pac 10's national championships, team by team
-The SEC's national championships, team by team
-The atrocity that is NCAA scheduling in general
-The SEC's horrible scheduling, specifically
-The SEC's bewilderment over those big silver birds in the sky
-Gay sex between Catholic priests and altar boys
-Gay sex with 'Spray, and vice versa
-Occasional snipes at "UcLabia" and "Kal"
-Constant snipes at ND, even of the nonsexual variety
-Fat jokes about Charlie Weis
-The superiority of living in Newport Beach
-His glorious life as George S. Patton, pushing his nine year old kids in a headlong frenzy to be the first to Berlin

Pretty accurate, except for two blatant omissions:

-Bitching about Pac 10 refs, whether USC wins or loses
-Jumping off the SC bandwagon because SC didn't play with "heart" en route to a loss. Then somehow summoning from deep, deep down the passion once again to bleed SC cardinal and gold after beating some shit Pac slappy 113-0 the very next week.

I'd add the following . . .

-His constant carping that all NCAA members boycott ND unless/until ND joins a conference.
-Repeatedly hoping that USC drops basketball in favor of ice hockey. Interestingly, he doesn't also suggest that USC drop baseball in favor of lacrosse. That would be equally ridiculous, but at least his argument would be consistent.
-Suggesting that walk-ons be stripped of all financial aid whatsoever (topic of this thread).

See! S'wat I'm sayin'!

Never let it be said that SoCalTrjn isn't a true Renaissance Man. He's a veritable cornucopia of thoughtful topics.

Papa Willie wrote:Petey is tossing more money at players than anybody. He'll get caught. Just a matter of time.

Besides the fact that that's just completely absurd to whom or to what are you addressing that comment anyway?

On second thought, we need to add to the list the following:

-The injustice that is perpetrated when the NCAA allows its member schools to recruit out-of-state. (Of course, he'll fail to mention that, of the three recruits ND and USC went head-to-head for on Signing Day, two were outside the State of California.)

And btw . . .

Van wrote:-The SEC's bewilderment over those big silver birds in the sky

Given his attitude about ND, you just KNOW he wants to lump ND in with that group as well. But even he knows he can't do that with even a shred of credibility.

Terry in Crapchester wrote:

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:

Van wrote: -Trojan football games
-Trojan football game failings
-Trojan football history
-Trojan football recruiting
-Trojan football player scandals, including "inside info" on what "really happened."
-His loathing of most other sports besides football
-The Pac 10's national championships, team by team
-The SEC's national championships, team by team
-The atrocity that is NCAA scheduling in general
-The SEC's horrible scheduling, specifically
-The SEC's bewilderment over those big silver birds in the sky
-Gay sex between Catholic priests and altar boys
-Gay sex with 'Spray, and vice versa
-Occasional snipes at "UcLabia" and "Kal"
-Constant snipes at ND, even of the nonsexual variety
-Fat jokes about Charlie Weis
-The superiority of living in Newport Beach
-His glorious life as George S. Patton, pushing his nine year old kids in a headlong frenzy to be the first to Berlin

Pretty accurate, except for two blatant omissions:

-Bitching about Pac 10 refs, whether USC wins or loses
-Jumping off the SC bandwagon because SC didn't play with "heart" en route to a loss. Then somehow summoning from deep, deep down the passion once again to bleed SC cardinal and gold after beating some shit Pac slappy 113-0 the very next week.

I'd add the following . . .

-His constant carping that all NCAA members boycott ND unless/until ND joins a conference.
-Repeatedly hoping that USC drops basketball in favor of ice hockey. Interestingly, he doesn't also suggest that USC drop baseball in favor of lacrosse. That would be equally ridiculous, but at least his argument would be consistent.
-Suggesting that walk-ons be stripped of all financial aid whatsoever (topic of this thread).

Let's not forget the his delusions of grandeur coaching Little Leaguers that would make Marv Marinovich cringe.

Socal wrote:Let's not forget the his delusions of grandeur coaching Little Leaguers that would make Marv Marinovich cringe.

That was one I didn't forget...

Van wrote:-His glorious life as George S. Patton, pushing his nine year old kids in a headlong frenzy to be the first to Berlin

Both the baseball team and the football team were made up of 11-12 year olds and neither lost a game all year.... or even had an enemy team keep it close, good thing cause I would have ran their asses off at the next practice if they had.
Dont forget that I also talk about more than half of the National Titles in baseball history have come from just 3 western states, California, Oregon and Arizona.

SoCalTrjn wrote:Both the baseball team and the football team were made up of 11-12 year olds and neither lost a game all year.... or even had an enemy team keep it close, good thing cause I would have ran their asses off at the next practice if they had.

So what? Marshal Zhukov still beat you and your men to Berlin.

But my kids would have kicked those commie bastards all the way back to Moscow and then ran the score up because its not worth winning if you dont win big. My teams do not fear failure. they only fear the "slowing up" of the engine inside of them which is pounding, saying, "Keep going, someone must be on top, why not you?"

SoCalTrjn wrote: they only fear the "slowing up" of the engine inside of them which is pounding, saying, "Keep going, someone must be on top, why not you?"

jesus, you should write poetry.

Wow...and we wonder what the fuck is wrong with kids today. I guess it proves that any idiot can be a parent.

my sons football team this year made their own lyrics to an old House of Pain song, I think the DB/LB coach helped them with it, just called the wife trying to remember how it went, all we could remember was something like
"Run it up, run it in
We're here to win
We love to battle
And score again and again
We're never gonna back off
Total effort, no one slacks off
Going to smash your will, stomp your heart and rip your head off"
they had the whole song, when the kids get home from school tonight Ill get the rest of it from them.