T1B

R-Jack wrote:

H4ever wrote:you consider what Japanese execs accomplish and their diminutive, by comparison, salaries they receive.

So what exactly do Japanese execs accomplish that American ones fail at? I mean other than making dead hookers disappear without a trace.

Not rying to be a contrarian, but your points seem to be deeply rooted in perception.

War Wagon wrote:So, we bailed out a company to the tune of $170 billion who are contractually obligated to pay these bonuses, regardless of performance.

That's just fucking terrific.

I wonder if our shrewd government knew about these bonuses before deciding to bail these shysters out?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090315/ap_ ... ig_bonuses

R-Jack wrote:

R-Jack wrote: your points seem to be deeply rooted in perception.

H4ever wrote:much better performance (in japan)

:doh:

Try thinking things through before you go YippieKaiYa and hit submit. Please.

"We cannot attract and retain the best and brightest talent to lead and staff the AIG businesses, which are now being operated principally on behalf of the American taxpayers — if employees believe their compensation is subject to continued and arbitrary adjustment by the U.S. Treasury," Liddy said.

R-Jack wrote:

H4ever wrote: Yea....GM and Ford are kicking ass aren't they? My bad.

Do the math on compensation vs. performance of GM, Ford, Toyota, Honda over say...the last 15 years and get back to me.

OK, so your entire borad brush for the performance of all Japanese executives is a couple of car companies and their performance in America?

once again.

R-Jack wrote: your points seem to be deeply rooted in perception.

R-Jack wrote:

War Wagon wrote:I've got some compensation for you shitdicks. You're fired. No severance, no bonus, pack your shit and get the fuck out of my face.

Great. Love it. I'll even RACK it.

If it was that simple and the ensuing lawsuits would not cost TAXPAYERS a shitload of money, I be all for it in the case of AIG.

R-Jack wrote: If it was that simple and the ensuing lawsuits would not cost TAXPAYERS a shitload of money, I be all for it in the case of AIG.

Stan Fukkken Pickle wrote:Why aren't people going to jail over this shite?

Barney "Banking Queen" Franks?
Christopher Dodds?
Maxine Waters?
The black dude from Fannie Mae?
Half the Senate?
Half the Congress?
Half of Wall Street?


Somebody tell me, WTF is going on here? With all the corruption, scandal and outcry from the general public why isn't anybody going to jail?

Everyday I'm praying that tens of thousands of American citizens armed with pitch forks and torches storm the Bastille and drag scoundrels to the public square where they will face swift justice square at the hands of a sharply bladed guillotine.



If the French can do it....WHY CAN'T WE! :brad:

H4ever wrote: Simple. Dismiss with prejudice any and all lawsuits by execs regarding lost compensation if they worked for a company that they systematically raped and then later received a government bailout.

That could be arranged through congress. Fuck em. If it's okay to roll back pensions , give away the store under their watch, and otherwise plunder shareholders, then fuck them and their contracts.

Rack Fu wrote:It seems that every week we're told of some company (that had received bailout money) that has these grand plans of paying out millions in bonuses or for corporate retreats/parties, etc. They're still wallowing in the fat cat mentality that they're entitled to lavish bonuses and perks regardless of their corporation's dismal performance. They can't seem to come to terms with their new reality and it's apparent they just don't get it.

I was against bailouts in the first place and felt that financial and economic Darwinism should work its course. I understand there are serious repercussions from the likes of AIG, GM and Chrysler going kaput. There are also serious repercussions from letting them piss through a few hundred billion. It's very apparent to me that the bailouts just aren't working for those companies as they come seeking another handout a couple of months after burning through the tens of billions that was supposed to have already steered them back on course. How much longer will we continue to handout money to these companies that seem to not be viable in anyway, shape or form? It just isn't working. Cut our losses and move on.

Have you ever wondered what happened to the 56 men who signed the Declaration of Independence?

Five signers were captured by the British as
traitors, and tortured before they died.

Twelve had their homes ransacked and burned.

Two lost their sons serving in the Revolutionary
Army; another had two sons captured.

Nine of the 56 fought and died from wounds or
hardships of the Revolutionary War.

They signed and they pledged their lives, their
fortunes, and their sacred honor.

What kind of men were they?


Twenty-four were lawyers and jurists.

Eleven were merchants, nine were farmers and large plantation owners; men of means, well educated.

But they signed the Declaration of Independence knowing full well that the penalty would be death if they were captured.

Carter Braxton of Virginia, a wealthy planter and
trader, saw his ships swept from the seas by the
British Navy. He sold his home and properties to pay his debts, and died in rags.

Thomas McKeam was so hounded by the British that he was forced to move his family almost constantly. He served in the Congress without pay, and his family was kept in hiding. His possessions were taken from him, and poverty was his reward.

Vandals or soldiers looted the properties of
Dillery, Hall, Clymer, Walton, Gwinnett, Heyward,
Ruttledge, and Middleton.

At the battle of Yorktown, Thomas Nelson JR, noted that the British General Cornwallis had taken over the Nelson home for his headquarters. He quietly urged General George Washington to open fire. The home was destroyed, and Nelson died bankrupt. Francis Lewis had his home and properties destroyed. The enemy jailed his wife, and she died within a few months.

John Hart was driven from his wife’s bedside as she was dying. Their 13 children fled for their lives. His fields and his gristmill were laid to waste. For more than a year he lived in forests and caves, returning home to find his wife dead and his children vanished. A few weeks later he died from exhaustion and a broken heart.

Norris and Livingston suffered similar fates.

Such were the stories and sacrifices of the American Revolution.

These were not wild-eyed, rabble-rousing
ruffians.

They were soft-spoken men of means and
education. They had security, but they valued
liberty more. Standing tall, straight, and
unwavering, they pledged: “For the support of this declaration, with firm reliance on the protection of the divine providence, we mutually pledge to each other, our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor.” They gave you and me a free and independent America.

The history books never told you a lot about what
happened in the Revolutionary War.

We didn’t fight just the British.

We were British subjects at that time and we fought our own government!

Some of us take these liberties so much for granted, but we shouldn’t. So, take a few minutes while enjoying your 4th of July holiday and silently thank these patriots. It’s not much to ask for the price they paid.

Remember: freedom is never free!

Tom In VA wrote:The whole thing or just the 5 being tortured and killed ?

The author was a bit free with summing events.

http://www.snopes.com/history/american/pricepaid.asp


However, the overall price paid is not false, agree ?

H4ever wrote:
They now regard taxpayer bailout money as a form of income

mvscal wrote:
NOBODY* is "too big to fail."

mvscal wrote: NOBODY is "too big to fail." There is already a legal remedy for failure in the private sector. It's called bankruptcy. Failure is a vital and necessary component of freedom. It applies to markets as well as individuals.

Derron wrote: the bullshit argument that if AIG failed it would take down the system was complete bullshit.

simply imfuckingpossible..for one company to take down the entire system...

War Wagon wrote:
Bullshit or not, at this point, I'm thinking that taking down the "system" would be a good thing.

simply imfuckingpossible..for one company to take down the entire system...

It wasn't just one company.

AIG was the biggest and last in a long line of dominoes who were all inter-connected.

Bear Stearns
Lehman Brothers
Wachovia
Wells Fargo
Citi-group
Bank of America

The list goes on. What fucked AIG more than any other reason is that they provided PMI on the numerous sub-prime mortgages, invested in heavily by the above mentioned companies, that went south when adjustable interest rate loans reset.

mvscal wrote:McWho? What does he have to do with any of this? In any event, he wasn't the one running around filling the heads of morons with "Hope and Change."

How's that workin out for ya, by the way? Diggin the "new" way of taking care of business in Washington?

Felix wrote:oh, that's right you're solution is to simply let them fail...the only problem with that is not only do they fail, but they take a shit load of other companies/finanical entities with them and put thousands, no tens of thousands out of work

mvscal wrote: You are assuming facts not in evidence. In case you haven't noticed, they're failing even with the bailout and it hasn't exactly been Armeggedon here. The only thing the bailout has done is throw good money after bad.

Bad business MUST be permitted to fail. That is the way the market corrects itself. That is how business practices evolve and improve. I understand that's some pretty tough, fucking medicine for a lot of people, but that's just the way it goes.

Again the topic of discussion here is not what the Republicans might have done, but what the Democrats actually did.

War Wagon wrote:

Felix wrote:oh, that's right you're solution is to simply let them fail...the only problem with that is not only do they fail, but they take a shit load of other companies/finanical entities with them and put thousands, no tens of thousands out of work

And that's different than what we have now in what way?

Just had another round of layoffs at my company. The last 60 survivors have now been culled to 32. It's getting close to turn off the lights, the party is over. If you're not directly engaged with producing revenue, which means shippable products, you are expendable. Thankfully, I still rememeber how to run those metal fabricating machines i used to operate 15 years ago, or I'd be SOL too.

mvscal wrote:
That's a personal problem.

Felix wrote:

mvscal wrote:
That's a personal problem.

no, that's your and my problem, whether you want to acknowledge it or not....

and actually no, I'm not in favor of bailing out the fucking crooks that ran the company into the ground...my concerns lie more with economic impact and the ancillary fallout from a conglomerate of that size failing