T1B

Sam:

I think in the Big 10's case the depth of the league really helped the league out come tourney time...Michigan's BODY of work included a win over Duke and UCLA, plus a very close loss at UCONN (not that close losses count, but hey sticks in the minds). Plus they have 20+ wins I believe and again with 2 of them coming over perenial top 5-10 teams adds some legitamacy to them. Wisconsin beat Va Tech, beat OSU, and played tough against most of their competition. Their seeding 12th looks like they were one of the last in??? But a pretty good team if Landry shows up...

Pac 10 I think they have some depth as well...and Washington is a pretty tough squad. Then you throw in UCLA, Cal, ASU, Zona, etc and you have some pretty good depth...I think what hurt the SEC...Kentucky fell off a cliff and Florida was inconsistent...

Just some thoughts...

Sudden Sam wrote:I'll go out on a limb and pick Miss. State to knock off the Huskies in the first round.

Good luck with that. I bet Washington beats them by at least 10...


Speaking of the Pac 10. How in the fuck did Arizona get in? Olson retires so they give his former team a gift as a show of respect?

I got tired of hearing Hubert Davis and Digger sucking off Arizona...


Sam...I just think the fact that Kentucky and Florida being down was part of the catalyst...then LSU went in the dumps toward the end of the season...other than that I think the Big 10 and Pac 10 would handle pretty much most of the SEC in basketball from top to bottom THIS YEAR...well except Indiana...

edit...btw You think Kentucky fan would like to have Tubby back?

Sudden Sam wrote:I watched enough SEC ball this year to see some really ugly basketball. Yes, the league was definitely down. But I also saw a good many Big Ten games and quite a few Pac 10 games. The Big Ten, in particular, didn't impress me at all. So what's with Wisconsin and Michigan getting in the tournament? I'm not bashing...just asking those of you who saw more ball than me to explain why the Big Ten was held in high regard this year. I didn't see any really impressive team.

I think based on merit, Wisconsin's entry was a bit sketchy. They played some good teams out of conference, but lost to most of them. They lost 6 games in a row in conference. To top it off, they lost to both of the conference's top teams (MSU, Purdue). Beating one or both of them would've saved some grace. Didn't happen...so I can understand the gripes in regards to Wisconsin.

Wisky is normally pretty tough despite overall record, but this year, I think they're a pretender. Their style of ball remains the same, the only problem is they have no real scoring threats. In years past they'd wear you down and go deep into the shot clock, but always have a trusty scorer to put the ball in the hoop. This year they really have no such luxury. It's painful watching them try to run their offense, and they'll try to flop their way to a victory. I think FSU will beat them and beat them soundly.

Michigan is a different story. Scoring threats, they have, and have plenty of them. I firmly believe that when Sims/Harris are playing at the top of their game, and the 3s are falling, Michigan is....wait for it.......

one of the best teams in the country. That being said, the problem is, this happens so rarely. Inconsistency will be their downfall. They're either really REALLY good or really REALLY beatable. That's exactly why they've beaten teams like Duke, UCLA, and Purdue, but lost to Iowa and Penn St. It's really impossible to tell what team will show up on any given day, but I think they'll at least beat Clemson.

As for the rest of the conference, calling the Big Ten "unimpressive" because they don't put a bazillion points on the scoreboard has become pretty routine. What's pretty isn't always effective in March. I like a team's chances, like Purdue for example, that is versatile enough to grind it out in the halfcourt game, as well as get into an 80 point shootout if the flow calls for it.

Depth and coaching is what makes it a strong conference. Just like the SEC in football. Tom Izzo, Tubby Smith, Bo Ryan, Bruce Weber, Thad Matta, Crean, Belein, and then you've got up and comers like Painter, Lickliter, Dechellis, and Bill Carmody who just put together possibly the best season Northwestern has ever had. The worst team in the conference, Indiana, is one of the most storied and successful programs in the history of basketball, and has an amazing recruiting class coming in. The worst team was the Indiana Hoosiers. Think about that.

Maybe I'm a tad biased, but that is a LOADED collection of coaches in one conference and if you don't think there's a single "impressive" team in that bunch you're just being stubborn...or ignorant.

Depth and coaching. That's why the conference has sent a larger collection of teams to the Final Four over the last decade than any other conference.

Sudden Sam wrote:Just hadn't seen any team that jumped out at me like Louisville

You mean that team who lost to Minnesota?

No, the Big Ten doesn't have the cream of the crop this year. I won't compare the upper tier of the Big Ten to the ACC or Big East. I do think the conference has the most depth though, and definitely has teams capable of making deep runs.

Sudden Sam wrote: My question is: was the SEC that much worse this year than either the Big Ten or the Pac 10?

The answer to your question is YES. Guys who have no bias on the topic chose to only include 3 SEC teams and they were forced to do so with 1 of them. The champ of the regular season got a freaking 8 seed!!! The SEC is usually a damn good conference but this year they were the suck. Should be just a 1 year blip though.

Sudden Sam wrote:So what's with Wisconsin and Michigan getting in the tournament? I'm not bashing...just asking those of you who saw more ball than me to explain why the Big Ten was held in high regard this year. I didn't see any really impressive team.

michigan's a legitimate tournament team, and considering they were only the seventh-best team in the conference, that's why the big ten is held in high regard. as far as my claim they deserve the be in the dance, my initial defense would be to ask who that was left out should have been given an invite instead of umich. then i'd go dig up some links i found on a blog where they compared a team's profile to similar ones from years past and found michigan's would have gotten them an invite over 90% of the time.

Michigan is a different story. Scoring threats, they have, and have plenty of them. I firmly believe that when Sims/Harris are playing at the top of their game, and the 3s are falling, Michigan is....wait for it.......

one of the best teams in the country. That being said, the problem is, this happens so rarely. Inconsistency will be their downfall. They're either really REALLY good or really REALLY beatable. That's exactly why they've beaten teams like Duke, UCLA, and Purdue, but lost to Iowa and Penn St. It's really impossible to tell what team will show up on any given day, but I think they'll at least beat Clemson.

michigan's definitely inconsistent, for a million reasons. aside from being pretty young, they rely so heavily on the three and don't have much of a plan b when shots aren't falling, which is stupid considering they have sims. but i guess the approach here is to have him step outside when novak, douglass, etc. aren't hitting and let him miss a few as well. their performance in the btt was a perfect illustration of this: sims scores michigan's first 14 points against iowa within 10 feet of the rim and then starts the illinois game by jacking up shots from 20.

another reason for their inconsistency is simply matchups. novak gets stuck guarding the 4 when we're in man-to-man, which explains why wisconsin sucks but we can't beat them. the entire illi game last week was that davis dude posting novak up and afterward making a mockery of the broadcast team ["omg, what an amazing shot...he's on m'fucking fire!!!"] by telling the interview lady, "uh, i scored a lot of points because i'm 6'10" and was posting up a guard."

beilein must be an absolute monster of a coach, though. sims and harris are definitely very good players [though harris is a bit overrated, methinks], and novak, douglas, and llp are adequate, but outside of them there isn't a whole lot to work with. every time i see david merritt running his poor little heart out i can't help but think of nick sheridan daydreaming about winning a game against ohio state. i think i may see an actual big ten title before i die.

Sudden Sam wrote:I don't think I saw Michigan this year. Don't know how I missed them. Saw Illinois, Wisconsin, Purdue, MSU...most of them. Wisconsin I've thought was damn good in years past, but not this time. Saw Purdue when Hummel was out. Again, looked like a mid-pack team.

As I said, Mgo, I wasn't bashing the Big Ten. I needed a response that gave me some detail. I appreciate the input. That's what I was asking for.

Just hadn't seen any team that jumped out at me like Louisville, UNC (when healthy), Connecticut, etc.

Because they are on the Big Ten Network which ESPN hates and sees as a competitor. If you hadn't notice, the idiots at ESPN take every dig they can to show how bad the Big Ten is even though their RPI is #2, even better than the Big East. To them only offense sells, not defense.

Arch Angel wrote:Because they are on the Big Ten Network which ESPN hates and sees as a competitor. If you hadn't notice, the idiots at ESPN take every dig they can to show how bad the Big Ten is even though their RPI is #2, even better than the Big East. To them only offense sells, not defense.

Offense sells. Gotcha. Are you really stupid enough to imply that the Big East is some sort of no D high scoring league? The teams in this league are better known for beating the fuck out of each other in the paint than they are for playing like Golden State or Phoenix. I am not sure if you saw the Big East tournament, but the offensive ugliness seen in most of its games pretty much epitomized league play.

Good luck to the host of slightly above average Big11 teams that litter the brackets. I just went back and adjusted my picks so that only MSU makes it out of the 1st Rd. RACK ME, I am out....

ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2 wrote:

Arch Angel wrote:Because they are on the Big Ten Network which ESPN hates and sees as a competitor. If you hadn't notice, the idiots at ESPN take every dig they can to show how bad the Big Ten is even though their RPI is #2, even better than the Big East. To them only offense sells, not defense.

Offense sells. Gotcha. Are you really stupid enough to imply that the Big East is some sort of no D high scoring league? The teams in this league are better known for beating the fuck out of each other in the paint than they are for playing like Golden State or Phoenix. I am not sure if you saw the Big East tournament, but the offensive ugliness seen in most of its games pretty much epitomized league play.

Good luck to the host of slightly above average Big11 teams that litter the brackets. I just went back and adjusted my picks so that only MSU makes it out of the 1st Rd. RACK ME, I am out....

When the dude from Seton Hall clubbed that white guy from Syracuse, that was my favorite moment of hte tournament.

Your answer, once again SS, is yes. The SEC is that much worse than every other major conference in basketball this season.

Take your team for example... your team which almost finished .500 in SEC play... Bama played 4 teams from major conferences outside of conference: Oregon, Texas A&M, Georgia Tech, and Clemson. The first three were all at home and Bama pulled out just a single win, against Georgia Tech and barely at that. Georgia Tech finished dead as a dog last in the ACC. Oregon who, once again, finished dead last in the Pac 10 routed Bama by 20+ points in Tuscaloosa! You can cap that off with a home loss to an 11-9, 17-15, out of the Atlantic Sun conference, Mercer. Mercer was a team that lost by 15+ points this season ten times and Bama lost to them at home.

Allbarn, the supposed hot team once conference play got into full tilt late lost every major OOC game they played with, once again as like Bama, the exception of Georgia Tech. Allbarn did something else in common with Bama as well... Lost to Mercer at home!!! That team that just got bounced in the first round by Purdue, Northern Iowa, Played Allbarn on a neutral court and beat the living piss out of them on national television. The fact that some people were touting this team as a "bubble team" going into the conference tournament is a travesty to the sport, an embarrassment to March Madness, and a true testament to just how utterly pathetic SEC conference play was this past season!

Florida played a who's who list of small conference bottom feeders until SEC play began before promptly being exposed as just another pathetic middle of the pack SEC squad and gracefully exiting its position in the top 15 of the country.

South Carolina... See Florida recap and substitute its name for Florida. TIA.

I don't even want to discuss Georgia because that would be like kicking a three legged dog while it's sick. All I'm going to say is Texas A&M and unlike its conference brethren in Alabama and Allbarn who also lost to an agricultural and mechanical college in Texas, this was of the Corpus Christi variety rather than the College Station.

Kentucky was an enigma to me for much of the season. They seemed to play directly to the level of competition, good and bad, of whomever they played on a particular night.

Arkansas couldn't keep a line up or they might have been dangerous in this poor a conference this season. Leave it to the bumbling idiots in Fayettville to find a way to fuck things up...

Ole Miss's defense was a kin to a monstrosity work in progress. This team gave up more points this season than Deuce McALlister has fathered illegitimate children.

Miss Stake won your conference tournament and gets to play today. WTF!!! The bulldogs got beat like red headed step children by everyone except my daughter this season... Until SEC conference play started and just about every other squad in the conference was equally inept. Teams like Charlotte and San Diego walked into Starksville and walked out with Ws.

Tennessee is a legitimate team and has shown flashes of brilliance, they might have been a top 10 team this season if they hadn't equaled those flashes with dumbassery! Arkiesaw 2 years ago is the only team I can compare as having so much natural athletic ability on the court but at the same time having the most unintelligent players playing the game.

LSU makes me want to laugh and cry at the same time. I know they just took down Butler in a mild upset but come on Butler is a mid major eight seed playing a major conference nine seed. You're suppossed to win those games! LSU's OOC schedule made Florida and South Carolina's schedules look world class. Three OOC games not involving a directional school or worse, you played in the SEC this season, and ended up with 6 losses... To hear JSC tell it though Trent Johnson should be up for national coach of the year while I'm trying to figure out how the hell did they lose six games with this travesty of a schedule?

Sudden Sam wrote:

buckeye_in_sc wrote:Although, even though excuses were provided in another thread, I would think the fact the the SEC's last place team, Arkansas, beating both Texas and Oklahoma shoulda impressed somebody!

Arkansas had three players in that game that all saw less than 1/3 of the SEC conference schedule. The Arkansas team that played Oklahoma and Texas would have likely finished in the top 3 or 4 of the SEC this season had it stayed intact.

Nice post, but facts are like kyryptonite to SECBSH.

Sudden Sam wrote:Uh...in mentioning Arkansas, I note that you conveniently failed to mention that the SEC's last place team took down both Texas and your Sooners. I know, I know...there are all kindsa excuses, but the Razorbacks beat them.

I did mention it, check the quote... the same Arkansas team that played OU and Texas in December lost three players, that had extensive time, for 2/3 on the conference schedule or more during conference play. That Arkansas team finishes no worse than 2nd in the west.

Sudden Sam wrote:

SunCoastSooner wrote:

Sudden Sam wrote:Uh...in mentioning Arkansas, I note that you conveniently failed to mention that the SEC's last place team took down both Texas and your Sooners. I know, I know...there are all kindsa excuses, but the Razorbacks beat them.

I did mention it, check the quote... the same Arkansas team that played OU and Texas in December lost three players, that had extensive time, for 2/3 on the conference schedule or more during conference play. That Arkansas team finishes no worse than 2nd in the west.

Got ya'. The lineup probs.

So which of the Big Ten's powers are so overwhelmingly good?

Pac10?

A warning to the rest of the country: Florida will be back next year. Tennessee. Arkansas. If Kentucky and Gillespie can work out their differences, the Wildcats should be strong again. A couple good recruits and Coach Izzo :D and Alabama will be a tourney team.

Florida might be back in the top 25 next season but it will on the fringes. Tennessee doesn't lose much but some of their players just plainly have low basketball IQs. Kentucky is in free fall. If Bama makes the touney they will be one of the last 4 taken and a bubble team.

Sudden Sam wrote:So which of the Big Ten's powers are so overwhelmingly good?

MSU and Purdue are very good basketball teams. I sincerely doubt you've seen enough from either to have an accurate opinion. Ohio St is well rounded and can be very good at times. Minny was mediocre at best. They were exposed, as I thought they would be. Michigan can be either awesome or horrible. Wisky sucks balls. Illinois is young and overachieved this year. They can be very tough but when your starting senior PG who was one of the best defenders in the Big Ten is hurt, well, that doesn't bode well for you.

The league has been extremely deep and competitive. That's been the argument for the B10, not how "overwhelmingly good" everybody is. Obviously the cream of the crop in the Big Ten isn't on par with the Big East or ACC.

Basically, the Big Ten was loaded with very good young talent this year, especially sophomores. I think most if not all of the Big Ten first-teamers were sophomores. That is obviously a sign of good things to come for the league.

But I think you should let the games play out. Michigan, MSU, Purdue, Wisky, and OSU still have games to play.

RACK OK ST for taking down another pathetic SEC program in UT.

Sudden Sam wrote:

SunCoastSooner wrote:

Sudden Sam wrote:Uh...in mentioning Arkansas, I note that you conveniently failed to mention that the SEC's last place team took down both Texas and your Sooners. I know, I know...there are all kindsa excuses, but the Razorbacks beat them.

I did mention it, check the quote... the same Arkansas team that played OU and Texas in December lost three players, that had extensive time, for 2/3 on the conference schedule or more during conference play. That Arkansas team finishes no worse than 2nd in the west.

Got ya'. The lineup probs.

So which of the Big Ten's powers are so overwhelmingly good?

Pac10?

A warning to the rest of the country: Florida will be back next year. Tennessee. Arkansas. If Kentucky and Gillespie can work out their differences, the Wildcats should be strong again. A couple good recruits and Coach Izzo :D and Alabama will be a tourney team.

By SEC standards this season? Wisconsin on up in the standings in the Big 10 I believe would have likely won the SEC. None of them would have finished worse than second overall.

Sudden Sam wrote:

Screw_Michigan wrote:RACK OK ST for taking down another pathetic SEC program in UT.

I picked that one. Damn. Wish I'd been wrong.

Bad, bad year down here.

The SEC really dropped off the map since last season. This is going to be a serious rebuild job for the entire conference unless it becomes a more marketable Conference USA with either Tennessee or LSU taking claim to the conference. I'm not as familiar with LSU's line up as I am with Tennessee's but the Vols are young.

ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2 wrote:Are you really stupid enough to imply that the Big East is some sort of no D high scoring league?

This is Illannoy fan we're talking about here, so I think the answer to your question is yes.

It's pretty simple really, the Big 10 has as much depth as both the Big East and ACC this year, but the top level teams are just a cut below in the B10 right now. If the NBA doesn't reap the benefit the Big 10 could start to change that soon. As Mgo pointed out there is a lot of sophmore talent in the conference this year.

Overall I anticipate the Big 10 to be back in the elite conversation within a few years due to the coaching talent influx at spots like Michigan, Minnesota, Purdue and Indiana.

I never make shines lists

SIn,

Thad Matta

Don't think that was a slight toward Matta. He's been around for a little while and Shine was addressing some of the newer coaches to makes some waves in the Big Ten.

I know...Shine wanted Matta at IU had they not hired Davis they have him...

plus Matta did make some blunders in the game against Sienna...

Like Mgo said, I was talking about more recent hires. Matta is "old school" Big 10 now, as crazy as that seems. He did make some suspect moves in the Siena game but his career winning percentage speaks for itself. If he can keep the kids he has on campus the Bucknuts could make some noise next year.

Class dismissed... someone lock the thread.