Microclimates... The San Francisco Bay area.

.m2 · Post by **.m2** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:34 am

I remember growing up here and taking a bus from...

... Sausalito to San Francisco

And it being 93 degrees in "Sausalito" and when I crossed the Golden Gate Bridge just over a mile or so away in San Francisco... it was 54 degrees.

Is there another region with such diversity anywhere in the world ?

Mr T · Post by **Mr T** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:46 am

.m2 wrote:

FTFY

.m2 · Post by **.m2** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:07 am

Mr T wrote:

Ahhh... Mt. Tam looking a few thousand feet below to Mill Valley and San Francisco.

Wolfman · Post by **Wolfman** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 11:14 am

"The coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco"-- Mark Twain
I remember driving up to Fisherman's Pier one July morning on our Tour America & Canada 1994 trip and noting everyone had on long pants and jackets. Some sort of cold ocean current flowing from the north does the trick ?

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 1:29 pm

Yes, pretty much the entire west coast. That cold as hell pacific ocean running along a coastline that a few miles inland, is desert will give you such results. Over here on the right coast, the current flows the other way which means the water temps during the summer are higher so we don't get the same wild temp swings, although a 20 degree difference within 20 miles is common enough, particularly north of boston where the water temps drop off considerably.

Are you sure ""Sausalito"" why the quotes, btw, was 40 degrees cooler? It is also on a peninsula surrounded by cold water. Maybe winds from the north could give you those conditions.

Mac22 · Post by **Mac22** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:31 pm

lake superior has the same effect... 80+ degrees over the hillside in duluth, but crest the hill and start heading close to the lake, and there will be a 20 degree swing in the summer. i did my co-op teaching in a middle school outside of town, but coached in town. would wear a light polo to school, but needed long sleeves or a hoodie for practice after school.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:43 pm

I lived in the Las Vegas area in the mid to late 90s. In the summer it could get to 120+ in the valley. A 45 minute drive would get you to the parking lot at the Mt. Charleson ski area where it would be a comfortable 80 or so at about 7,000'. A lot of nice hiking trails within easy reach of there, and you could get to about 10,000' or higher in an hour or so.

socal · Post by **socal** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:11 pm

Go from the central coast from points like Morro Bay, Cambria, or San Simeon to places just inland like Atascadero and Paso Robles and you'll find 30-50 degree differences aren't uncommon.

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:20 pm

That is a beautiful area. Now I can see why m2ool brought his trailer home cross country to live there.

Van · Post by **Van** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:39 pm

The Italian Lake District sees some of the most extreme microclimates anywhere. Lake Lugano, bordering Switzerland and Italy, along with Lake Como and Lake Maggiore in northern Italy, are nearly tropical, yet they're situated at the foot of the Tyrolean Alps, where it gets mighty cold.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:58 pm

Fallbrook, where I live, is located about 12 miles inland from Oceanside at an elevation of between around 600 and 1000 feet. We're also about 10 miles as the crow files from Temecula.

On a typical early summer day it can be overcast and in the low to mid 60s at the beach, sunny and a comfortable 75 at my house and 85 - 90 in Temecula.

Van · Post by **Van** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 4:01 pm

The Monterey Peninsula...

Carmel, or Pebble Beach. Foggy, sixty two degrees. Ride inland five to ten minutes, to hit the killer breakfast spot, on the way to Laguna, and it's over ninety degrees.

King Crimson · Post by **King Crimson** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 4:02 pm

the elevation change in the 17 miles between Boulder and Nederland, Colorado is about 3000 ft. i lived in Nederland for a couple years and there were some serious temp changes going up or down the canyon. 70 and sunny in Boulder, 30 and snowing in Ned. that sort of thing.

socal · Post by **socal** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 4:18 pm

I'm pretty sure IndyFrisco's back 40 has several microclimates.

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:01 pm

socal wrote:I'm pretty sure IndyFrisco's back 40 has several microclimates.

nahhh, a spread the size of his in cali would have pretty much all the climates, but, in the lovely midwest, home of year round shit weather, it's pretty much the dreaded triple H most every day with occasional breaks of respectable weather.

Here on the right coast we get the same but not quite as bad as we got that giant wet thing to stabilze stuff somewhat. Ofcourse, this summer is kind of freakish in that we have been stuck in a late april/early may kinda dealio. I am certain that AGW is to blame just like it was to blame for the recent hot dry summers.

Well, atleast I haven't had to run the well non stop to keep the pool filled.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:38 pm

Well, let's see...

It was a bad picture as it was much brighter outside, but it was about a 90 degree day. Of course, the water is a cool 82. Fuck bathwater pools.

You could prop yourself under the umbrella in the shade and it will put you around 80 degrees.

The shade of the pergola, which does let SOME sun through would probably be around 85 on the warm flagstone.

Additional shade in the screened in porch, coupled with the ceiling fans in here could get you down to 72. Hop into the spa which is set to 104 degrees if you want to go warmer.

But, should you be grillin out

doing a beer butt chicken

or some atomic buffalo turds

you may be kickin it around 115.

So, yeah, I guess there can be a 40 degree swing at any given time in the backyard.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:50 pm

Shade and fans don't lower the air temperature.

Shade reduces the radiant heat gain by any body, so it feels cooler, but the air isn't really any different temperature unless it's near a hot mass and there's no air movement.

A fan will make you feel cooler by moving the air and increasing the amount of heat removed from your skin, mostly by evaporation. Again, not actually reducing the air temperature.

BTW...how do you keep your pool at 82? It doesn't appear to be shaded at all. We were in the low 90s over the weekend and my pool heated up to about 88 in mid-afternoon, without running any solar heating. It's not exacely shallow, either. 4 ft at one end and 10 ft at the other.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:04 pm

Mikey,

We have had the coolest summer we've ever had. Our water in the pool has gotten down to 79 at one point less than a month ago.

So much for global warming...

As for covering the pool, this picture you can see the pool cover under the diving board. At least you can see the aluminum lead bar. My cover is built into the pool wall on a track system. I also put a couple inches of water in each week to replenish what gets evaporated. This helps cool it down a bit.

And as for all that moving air/temperature talk, it was mostly tongue in cheek on my part playing along. Granted, the concrete does get hella hot so sitting in a chair over the concrete is much hotter than being in the shaded area in the porch. Also, do you have a concrete pool or a vinyl lined pool? My sister-in-law here has a concrete pool. She can't keep the temperature below 94. The concrete pool obviously keeps the water warmer than the lined pool.

Van · Post by **Van** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:28 pm

Only if his wife is there, serving as hostess, wearing outfits of our choosing.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:31 pm

^^^ Reason #1 none of you dickbags will never get close to my crib. ^^^

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:31 pm

IndyFrisco wrote:
And as for all that moving air/temperature talk, it was mostly tongue in cheek on my part playing along.

I knew that. I was just trying to show off my extensive and superior knowledge of all things techincal and esoteric.

Granted, the concrete does get hella hot so sitting in a chair over the concrete is much hotter than being in the shaded area in the porch. Also, do you have a concrete pool or a vinyl lined pool? My sister-in-law here has a concrete pool. She can't keep the temperature below 94. The concrete pool obviously keeps the water warmer than the lined pool.

I'm surprised that there's that much difference between vinyl and concrete. My pool is concrete, but it's finished with white plaster so there shouldn't be that much heat gain by the sides and bottom.

I was always under the impression that the "average" temperature of a pool is pretty much determined by the temperature of the ground that it sits in. Daily fluctuations are due to solar heat gain and evaporation, which both occur at the surface of the water. Shouldn't be much difference between vinyl and concrete unless they one is darker. Oh well, who knows?

socal · Post by **socal** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:36 pm

Mikey wrote:Oh well, who knows?

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:38 pm

Mikey,

I won't claim to be a know it all on pools just yet. I moved here in August and this is my first pool and hot tub so I am still learning a lot. I do all the maintenance on it though. Just have the people at the pool shack I get my chemicals from edumacate me as I go along. I'm fairly certain I have bought plenty of shit I didn't need, but these people seem to care you do it right so I trust them. Plus, small town folk are generally more trustworthy I have found.

Anyhow, they are the ones who do all the work and such on my sis-in-law's pool. They told her that the hot water they experience is due to it being a concrete pool. Although your explanation makes some sense too. As you may remember in my Ditch PET, we live right over the water table. When they damned up my ditch and pumped all the water out, water kept rising to the surface. We have constant flow in the ditch year round. It may very well be that since we are sitting on top of water, our ground is cooler than theirs thus making the pool cooler.

Funny side note, I went to sis-in-law's house and in the pool, she had about 20 2 liter coke bottles that she had filled with water and put in the deep freeze to make ice. She chucked them in the pool hoping to cool it down. Not sure if it helped or not, but it was laugh out loud redneck funny.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:44 pm

IndyFrisco wrote:
Funny side note, I went to sis-in-law's house and in the pool, she had about 20 2 liter coke bottles that she had filled with water and put in the deep freeze to make ice. She chucked them in the pool hoping to cool it down. Not sure if it helped or not, but it was laugh out loud redneck funny.

LOL. That's funny.

I saw Brian Regan perform the other night. His solution to global warming - have everybody turn on their A/C and open their doors and windows.

Don't think that much ice wil have much effect on the pool temp, though (depends on how much water is in it, I guess).

Ever been to Phoenix, or Vegas, and noticed how many pools, especially at the resorts, have fountains and other water features? They're not just there for decoration. Evaporation can pull a lot of heat out of the water. It works best in hot, dry climates, though.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:07 pm

Not sure if it helps or not, but I run my pump 24x7 until winter when I shut it down.

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:57 pm

A thick concrete wall absorbs a lot of heat through the day and dumps a good bit of it into the water. A vinyl liner doesn't. It just doesn't have enough mass. Also, as you mentioned, your pool is sitting in a swamp. A nicely drained, pretty swamp, but, a swamp none the less. Heat transfer through wet soil is a fair bit better than it is through bone dry sand/dirt, which happens to be what mikey's pool is floating in.

Anyway, fukk both of you guys and your fancy smancy inground pools. I should throw up a pic of my white trash above ground job.

As for it's temp, it's pretty much all over the place, depending on the air temps/sunshine, since it's not surrounded by dirt like you uppity rich folks'.

And rack indy's comments about pisswarm pools. When I lived in Nashville, I would come home from work and go jump in the apartment complex's cement pond after work. Water temps had to be pushing the hell out of 100 degrees.

Not in.

The only time it was nice was if you somehow got a cool evening. That 99 degree pool felt like a fukking hot tub and looked cool with all the steam coming off it.

Rack Fu · Post by **Rack Fu** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:10 pm

IndyFrisco wrote:Fuck bathwater pools.

Speaking of which... it has been so damn hot in Houston that my pool reached 96 degrees last week. No solar blanket or heater. The pool has hardly been what I would call refreshing so far this summer as the pool temp is 92-95 degrees everyday.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:40 pm

A couple shots of my backyard resort...

This is what it looked like during the fires a couple of years ago...

Here's the old vinyl pool. It was great for swimming laps, but the neighbor just over the fence didn't appreciate all the splashing at 6:00 am when I got up to do it.

socal · Post by **socal** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:51 pm

Mikey wrote:but the neighbor just over the fence didn't appreciate all the splashing at 6:00 am when I got up to do it.

You might wanna stop peeing in your own pool.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:11 pm

socal wrote:
Mikey wrote:but the neighbor just over the fence didn't appreciate all the splashing at 6:00 am when I got up to do it.
You might wanna stop peeing in your own pool.

Rather wake up the neighbor than the OL...

socal · Post by **socal** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:22 pm

Mikey wrote:Rather wake up the neighbor than the OL...

I know whatcha mean.

How's the Fallbrook microwildfireclimate shaping up?

KC Scott · Post by **KC Scott** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:36 pm

Indy - what is the concrete covering around the outside of your pool ?

We're were going to have kolorstone epoxy put down on our concrete after this season - now that we are done with all the remo work:

Just wondering if that's what yours is and what your experience has been

OCmike · Post by **OCmike** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:18 pm

Sf during the daytime in July is quite nice, as long as you're motionless and standing in direct sunlight with zero wind. In other words, about 83 seconda per day.

Love the South Bay though. Seventy-four degrees w/ negligible humidity in July? Yes, please.

Unwar being in a tux in 108-degree heat at my sister's outdoorwedding on August 1st though(90 miles N of SF).

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:34 pm

OCmike wrote:Sf during the daytime in July is quite nice, as long as you're motionless and standing in direct sunlight with zero wind. In other words, about 83 seconda per day.

Went and hung out with friends in Davis in July, and naturally it was Africa-hot (as it was in Portland when I left), as was the rest of the drive into The City... until we hit the bridge. My shirt, shoes, and everything but the shorts I was wearing were stowed in back... just about died of hypothermia when we hit the Bay... around a 45 degree drop in a few minutes.

NoCal is fucked up.

OCmike · Post by **OCmike** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:47 pm

You forgot to mention the 95% humidity in Davis. Ever had a beer at Sudwerk? They have a kickass hefeweizen. *ducks*

BTW, the wedding will be about five miles from there. I guess the surface of the sun was already booked. :roll:

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 11:04 pm

Ahhh, beautiful Davis -- where the heat goes to escape the heat.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 11:22 pm

My first couple of years in college I had a summer internship at one of the major large companies that had their HQ at 50 Beale St. downtown in SF, just south of Market. One summer I was on about the 36th floor of the Union Bank Building (probably not the same name by now) with a view of the Bay etc. Didn't know how good I had it then.

I used to ride the SP train up the Peninsula to the station at 4th and Townsend, which was about a 10 or 15 block walk from work. Usually that walk was pretty pleasant but one summer there was a freakin' heat wave the likes I had never seen in the City. Must have been 90 degrees for about 2 weeks straight, and I had to wear a coat and tie every day. I think I broke down and took a taxi at least a few times.

Good times. Every payday I'd hop the California Street cable car and get off at some random corner to find a new place for lunch. My favorite lunch spot was the Tadich Grill, an awesome old school downtown seafood joint near the foot of California, which I see is still there. Gonna have to check that place out again one of these years.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:58 am

KC Scott wrote:Indy - what is the concrete covering around the outside of your pool ?

It is called stamped concrete. They pour the concrete and have these molds that they press onto the concrete giving it a texture. Once it dries, they put some kind of finish on it that makes it a bit more slick and less course. Not real ideal around a pool, but no one has gotten hurt yet. I've slipped a few times and about tore my sack while barely avoiding a hernia. Anyhow, after they put the finish on it, they stained it. As you can see, the section directly around the pool is a greyish color and beyond is a reddish color. Looks pretty nice, but if a section ever had to be replaced, it would be the suck. All in all, I like it.

Van · Post by **Van** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:08 am

You guys talking about Davis are on crack. Davis is not 95% humidity. It's no different than Sacramento. It's nothing like midwest or southeast humidity.

It's just hot during parts of summer, same as all of the central California valley is hot during parts of summer. Then it's cold and dreary during winter, due to the Tule fog, just like most everywhere else in the central valley.

Davis isn't nearly as hot as, say, Red Bluff, or Redding, much less places in Riverside county, or any of the eastern deserts in SoCal.

Davis is just Sacramento, which means it's mostly a dry heat. It isn't the least bit humid, not by the standards of people who've really felt oppressive humidity.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:11 am

socal wrote:
Mikey wrote:Rather wake up the neighbor than the OL...
I know whatcha mean.

How's the Fallbrook microwildfireclimate shaping up?

Not even a scare so far this year.

That could change at any time...