T1B

Case Keenum - 2008
5,020 yds
44 TDs
11 ints
67.4 Completion %

Sam Bradford - 2008
4720 yds
50 TDs
8 ints
67.9 Completion %


Comparable stats with last year's Hiesman winner, but its obvious Keenum wasn't invited to New York for the following reasons:

UH's record was 8-4
They play in a mid-major
Gimmicky(sp?) offense

Houston plays Texas Tech and Ok State OOC this season. If they split those two games and come away with only one loss in C-USA and finish 10-2 for the season, does Keenum get invited to New York if he duplicates last year's performance?

I think it's worthy of an invite. Just my .02.

Under no circumstances is any QB from Houston going to New York for the Heisman ceremony, not unless he pays his own way.

Barring injury, Tebow, McCoy and Bradford are locks. Maybe Jahvid Best gets a sniff. Maybe even Zach Robinson or Dez Bryant.

That's about it. They aren't inviting more than five. Four is probably about it, and with three of 'em being locks as QBs, no other QB has a chance, with the possible exceptions of Robinson and Terrell Pryor, should he just suddenly explode this season.

Oh, and of course, ND's QB. That guy will always have a shot, if he kills it, no matter who he is.

Had Mark Sanchez stuck around, that'd be it: Tebow, McCoy, Bradford and Sanchez, with Jahvid Best being the only other possible party crasher.

A popgun offense guy, from a team who plays nobody, who's seen by nobody?

Houston's QB could throw for 6K yards, with 50 TDs and 2 picks, and he still ain't going, because nobody cares.

A popgun offense guy, from a team who plays nobody, who's seen by nobody?

Houston's QB could throw for 6K yards, with 50 TDs and 2 picks, and he still ain't going, because nobody cares.

That line of logic didn't stop Colt Brennan from becoming a finalist, though I agree Keenum's got no shot due to the depth at the qb position this year in BTPCFB. Pryor won't even have to have a massive year to "out qualify" Keenum.

That's exactly it. Too many other locks at the same position.

That, and Hawaii was a BCS bowl team that year, which Houston will never be.

That sandlot, 7 on 7 passing league, flag football offense that OU runs isn't gimicky?

When you take a gimick offense and put it in at one of the big Big 12 schools suddenly it's no longer "gimicky" I guess. The Big 12, top to bottom, played some of the worst pass defense in D1 football last year, they had some amazing QBs in gimicky- summer passing league- offenses but when those schools played in their Bowl games they didn't put up the same huge numbers they did vs Big 12 defenses.

note that the Bix XII with it's gimmicks and pass D ranked #1 by conference in rushing yards. interesting, for a pop-gun, summer 7 on 7 league.

Pac 10 6th. behind the MAC, C-USA.

http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/2009/Internet/ ... _off_1.pdf

also, note that Baylor out-rushed USC's pro-style/run/pass juggernaut.

http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/natlRank.jsp?y ... =IA&dest=O

it's so comfortable to live in a land of spoon-fed ESPNisms. if you want to rip the Big XII, schmick, at least bring some numbers to the table. and, yes, the SEC has better numbers than the Pac 10 and that's considered a pretty salty D league. as does the allegedly gravy-footed Big 10, better O numbers than the Pac (with Jahvid Best). almost defies imagination.

Froz, I gotta know, you been drinking? Rack the multi-post rant, but it smelled like booze a litle.

Bwa!

RACK! Froz.

War Wagon wrote:Bwa!

RACK! Froz.

x2

Wow... froze may have encouraged me to log in on eht weekends more often in the future if he keeps this up... sorry I missed that. Rack Froze!

Andre Ware you at?

Good points made by many about the deep QB talent this year. Maybe Keenum would have a better shot in '10.

Another name that I just remembered who could be invited to New York is Jevon Snead.

Until they get under center and can progress through their reads while dropping back and throwing in a rhythm, they're gimick qbs. Joe Montana has recently said as much when asked about saint tebow, Im no Montana fan but he knows more about playing QB than I or anyone else on here does

SoCalTrjn wrote:Until they get under center and can progress through their reads while dropping back and throwing in a rhythm, they're gimick qbs. Joe Montana has recently said as much when asked about saint tebow, Im no Montana fan but he knows more about playing QB than I or anyone else on here does

until Michael Jordan masters the two-handed bounce pass he'll always be a gimmick player. the game changes.

Michael Jordan did master the two hand bounce pass, and no, the game doesn't really change. Not the NFL, anyway, and not the NBA.

If you want to win an NBA title you have to have dominant, "untouchable" go-to stars on offense, for the fourth quarter, and you have to play defense, all night.

If you want to win a Super Bowl, you ain't doing it with a gimick offense, or a gimick QB. Michael Vick or VY will never take a team to a win in a Super Bowl, not while there are highly skilled and efficient conventional QBs like Brady, Manning, Warner, Roethlisberger, etc, in their way.

The "Greatest Show On Turf" Rams would be the closest thing to an exception, and still that team was led by a very steady, heady decision maker at QB. He never ran with the ball, and their offense wasn't the least bit about QB improvisation. It was all quick timing reads and check downs.

Tebow's game bears no relation to successful QB play in the NFL.

this thread is about some cat getting an invite to NYC for the Heisman, what does the NFL have to do with it?

KC, you were responding to Socaltrjn's comment about Tebow, wherein he referenced Joe Montana's comment about Tebow, which obviously had nothing to do with Tebow's chances of being successful in college, but rather in the NFL.

Obviously Tebow is wildly successful playing QB in college, and short of having an aneurysm on the sideline he'll be an invitee to New York for the Heisman ceremony. That's a given. Socaltrjn's point is that his game at Florida doesn't translate at all to success at the NFL level, per Joe Montana.

Remember, we were talking about gimick offenses, and gimick QBs.

socaltro's quote doesn't specify that Montana is talking about NFL qb's or NFL success. just that if a qb doesn't take snaps under center that he's a "gimmick"...which sounds like a sort of curmudgeonly "back in the day real men played football" comment from an aging former star with Barry Manilow hair. if it were up to me, OU would still run the wishbone and have 5 pass attempts per game but i don't accept the premise that if a guy makes reads out of the gun he can't be anything other than a "gimmick" qb.

that's a silly absolute that is somewhat anachronistic like a two-handed chest bounce-pass or the set-shot as critical fundamentals to basketball greatness. Peyton Manning is a pretty gimmicky guy and he's got a ring.

You could also make the argument that Weis ran a gimmicky offense with Brady at times. On several occasions I saw 5 wideouts and Brady in the shotgun for entire drives. Hell, their first drive of the season against the Colts on Thursday night football was 5 wide all the way to the goaline. The game has certainly changed.

Drew Brees played in Joe Tiller's gimmick at Purdue and was the Offensive Player of the Year in the NFL in 2008.

Nice BtFrankHizzo rant.

Back to the topic at hand, let's take it a step further. It's definitely a stretch, but let's say Houston manages to upset both Taco Tech & Okie St. and runs the table in C-USA. Assuming he puts up similar numbers to last year, would he get a sniff at the Heisman as the QB of a 13-0 BCS-bound mid-major?

BTW, welcome aboard, Coogs. Can't wait to read the epic flame war with Lefty the week before the Rice/UH game...

No, not unless Tebow, Bradford and McCoy all die in a house fire first.

Van wrote:No, not unless Tebow, Bradford and McCoy all die in a house fire first.

I don't think you would need to eliminate all three of them for Keenum to get a look. If even one of those guys (or their respective teams) has a shitty season, it would open up the door for a dark horse. Now if the question is "Can Keenum actually win the Heisman?" then yeah, your house fire scenario would probably have to happen. But I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that he could at least get a token invite to the ceremony if McCoy, Bradford or the Messiah falters...

He'd still have to get through the Jahvid Bests of the world, and all the other "darkhorse" candidates like Eric Berry, plus the surprise guys from big BCS conference teams who are sure to pop up, as they do every season.

He's not even on the radar. Hell, he hasn't even fueled the plane, much less left the hangar.

I'm no Tebow fan...largely due to ESPN's bullshit but, speaking of gimmick qb's- Isn't Leinert about to be the 3rd qb on his NFL team? Looks to be a hanger-on in the NFL and will be out of the league within two years. I think USC having 5 stars 2 deep at every position is what made Leinert a "gimmick". Ol' Matty aint doing so well on a level playing field.

Ol' Matty is stuck behind a future HOF-er who also makes more $$. That future HOF-er just had another near-MVP season. There aren't ten QBs in the entire NFL who wouldn't ride the pine behind Kurt Warner.

If you're the Cardinals, who would you play, the experienced guy with the bigger paycheck and only a little bit of time left, Kurt Warner...or some kid, who makes less, and who can benefit from learning under Warner?

Yeah, Leinart won a Heisman, but they got him with the #10 pick, not the #1 pick, so they don't have all that much $$ invested in him. Do you really expect them to sit Kurt Warner, with his bigger paycheck and shorter shelf life?

Nobody in their right mind is sitting Kurt Warner, under those circumstances.

H4ever wrote:I'm no Tebow fan...largely due to ESPN's bullshit but, speaking of gimmick qb's- Isn't Leinert about to be the 3rd qb on his NFL team? Looks to be a hanger-on in the NFL and will be out of the league within two years. I think USC having 5 stars 2 deep at every position is what made Leinert a "gimmick". Ol' Matty aint doing so well on a level playing field.

What gas station is Eric Crouch working at? the same one as Jason White?

socal wrote:Nice BtFrankHizzo rant.

Of course, BtH's posts weren't so badly misspelled that you couldn't figure out what he was trying to say. The same can't be said about Rizzo, though.

Warner's got a bigger contract because he's better than Leinart. Warner was brought in because Leinart wasn't cutting it. No need to defend Leinart. He was a good college QB. Just not cut out for the NFL. Many others have had the same story.

Van wrote:Ol' Matty is stuck behind a future HOF-er who also makes more $$. That future HOF-er just had another near-MVP season. There aren't ten QBs in the entire NFL who wouldn't ride the pine behind Kurt Warner.

If you're the Cardinals, who would you play, the experienced guy with the bigger paycheck and only a little bit of time left, Kurt Warner...or some kid, who makes less, and who can benefit from learning under Warner?

Yeah, Leinart won a Heisman, but they got him with the #10 pick, not the #1 pick, so they don't have all that much $$ invested in him. Do you really expect them to sit Kurt Warner, with his bigger paycheck and shorter shelf life?

Nobody in their right mind is sitting Kurt Warner, under those circumstances.

I don't think that was his point.

His point was that Leinart's 2nd spot on the depth chart is even in jeopardy. There was an article released recently that suggests Leinart will battle Brian St. Pierre for second in line. St. Pierre - a guy who's done even less in the league than Leinart.

The criticisms against Leinart, at least the ones I've read, haven't really doubted his physical ability or that he was a "gimmick" qb. It all seems to be between the ears with him; that he isn't mentally tough.

Leinart wants to collect his money, keep his face in tact and become this douchebag.

The only way someone from Cougar High is getting an invite to NYC is if they go undefeated and are rolling up 80 point wins again.

In the meantime Cougar High might want to work on making their games attractive to their student body. Nothing like walking up to that HS stadium and getting decent seats between the 30s 5 mins before kickoff.


Anyway, good to see some Cougar High rep here. You should pretty well mop the field with us this season, but the back and forth should be fun. Not that the rest of this board will give a rats ass.

Left Seater wrote:The only way someone from Cougar High is getting an invite to NYC is if they go undefeated and are rolling up 80 point wins again.

In the meantime Cougar High might want to work on making their games attractive to their student body. Nothing like walking up to that HS stadium and getting decent seats between the 30s 5 mins before kickoff.


Anyway, good to see some Cougar High rep here. You should pretty well mop the field with us this season, but the back and forth should be fun. Not that the rest of this board will give a rats ass.

i'd like to see some Cougar High in the hoops board. the continuing career of Tom Penders is not without it's intrigue.

That guy is crazy. One of the loudest Cogar High fans here in Htown is the afternoon guy on the sport radio station. He can't stand the guy and would fire him today if he could.

Penders bad mouths Texas at every turn, calls ATM and OU scared little kids all the time, and the rest of college basketball cowards for not scheduling his school. Pretty funny when the OU coach was in town and gave a little soundbite to the media that went something along the line of "hey it isn't Cougar High, it is the idiot running the program."

EPCOT!

Left Seater wrote:That guy is crazy. One of the loudest Cogar High fans here in Htown is the afternoon guy on the sport radio station. He can't stand the guy and would fire him today if he could.

Penders bad mouths Texas at every turn, calls ATM and OU scared little kids all the time, and the rest of college basketball cowards for not scheduling his school. Pretty funny when the OU coach was in town and gave a little soundbite to the media that went something along the line of "hey it isn't Cougar High, it is the idiot running the program."

EPCOT!

at best, Penders was a poor man's Billy Tubbs....press a little, run and junk. difference was Billy actually knew what he was doing. and OU *owned* UT when Penders was there. some sad shit from that guy and his bass player for Night Ranger Reunion Tour '95 hair.

ah, memories of the great Luke Axtell. i wonder what he's doing these days.....

Penders is from the east coast or some shit, i don't even see how he was even let back into the GSOT. way you guys are.

Not sure why anyone would let him come anywhere near them. Don't know all the details surrounding Luke, but I do know Tommy released the kids grades to the media which is a huge no no. Then he had the balls to blame it on his assistant coach. Both were then let go, but when the details came out Texas hired the assistant back to do the radio of Texas basketball.


Sad thing is I bet Texas fan would have had Penders and his act for ever as long as he just kept his head down and made it to the tourney 9 out of every 10 years.