T1B

Let's see how this plays out at season's end.

Let's not and confirm we didn't.

Bitter and angry? More like I don't get the obsession with comparing stats between two guys who haven't played each other, and whose teams haven't played the same group of competition. They're meaningless stats for the sake of comparative analysis.

Oh, and Cousins will be fine.

Don't worry, Sam. You have the better QB, just ask around the board. Clausen isn't as good as Aaron Corp (Schmick) and 10x less of a QB than Drew Tate (JON).

Oh, and ND has a running game as well. And I bet we see a lot more of it these next two games.

Sam really needs to stop gushing over his team, since they've only played two door stops plus a third team with an historically inept offense.

Stats at this point are meaningless. Judgments on how dominating the offense or defense have been so far are meaningless.

Play some road games against real teams, then judge.

-M.A.

Or he could be excited that his team has a QB that can help his team win, instead of winning in spite of. God knows we shouldn't have any fun and be happy if any of our teams players are putting up good numbers and making something that was an unknown, look like a strength.

Or he could sit back and realize that playing North Texas and Troy at home tell him nothing, because you or Sam could look good running and throwing against those teams.

Van wrote:Or he could sit back and realize that playing North Texas and Troy at home tell him nothing, because you or Sam could look good running and throwing aginst those teams.

From the thread you started, about the USC vs. SJSU game:

Van wrote:Barkley just looked fantastic. No fumbles, no picks, no stupid decisions. He even threw the ball away when it was called for, rather than trying to force it in. Just steady and solid, which is more than one could usually hope to see from a true freshman in his first start.

15-18, for 233 yards, with no turnovers, and at least 1 TD. Then it's back on the bench, giving way to Aaron Corp for the 4th quarter.

Barkley's the real deal. He's going to be a star.

I'm confused.

Killian, the reason you're confused is you selectively C&P'd the self-serving portion of that thread. You intentionally didn't C&P the part where I said to Lax that what I was referring to regarding the "He's the real deal" comment were those things he did which will translate against any opponent: polished footwork, correct fundamentals, a Pro-style delivery, etc.

I was commenting on how Barkley looks like the real deal, compared to so many horrible QBs I'd seen that same day. The comment wasn't based on his numbers, which weren't anything that spectaular, it was based on the visual affirmation of everything the scouts had been saying about his polished skills.

The kid looked every bit the NFL QB, in terms of his command of the basics of the position. He doesn't still need to learn how to play QB, the way so many other "athlete" type QBs do.

Bama's previous QB, Parker, the guy Sam loved to hate? He would've looked every bit as confident, poised and accurate against North Texas as McElroy did, is the point. You would've looked just about as good against them as McElroy did. Of course the kid was accurate. He's a D1 QB who isn't just some "dual threat" runner disguised as a QB. Anybody who can throw at all will be able to throw accurate passes when they have all day to throw to wide open recievers, which is the case for McElroy when playing behind Bama's O-line, at home, against Troy International .

(We played Fla Internat'l, not Troy, by the way).

Not sure if that helps your point any. Anyway, one of your SEC juggarnauts just played Troy, at home. I think it was Florida.

Whatever.

I'm not basing how I feel about McElroy's performance so much on the numbers he's put up against the two weaklings as I am on how he looks out there. He has total command of the team.

How difficult is that to do in a glorified scrimmage? It's not like he ever had to rally them through adversity. There probably weren't many moments in the huddle when he had to grab some senior's face mask and scream, "Focus! Hey, there's John Candy!"

He knows what he's doing and looks comfortable.

Of course he did. It was a scrimmage. Most QB's look comfortable going through rote drills.

His teammates have confidence in him.

As well they should, for unless he were m2 they knew he would easily 'lead' them to victory in that day's scrimmage.

He has great touch on the ball and is accurate as hell.

So was VY, in college. It's not difficult to be accurate or have great touch when you can literally sit back and answer fan mail before deciding which of three wide open receivers to throw to lob the ball in the general vicinity of...

I'm not saying McElroy isn't a great passer, with magical touch and uncanny accuracy. I'm saying you can't tell whether he is or not, not from scrimmages where there aren't live rounds being fired, and that's what you're doing. You're going hog-wild over his accuracy and leadership during meaningless scrimmages.

Call me crazy, but I have a suspicion his accuracy, decision making and ability to inspire confidence in his teammates will appear rather different when he's having to squeeze passes into tiny spaces whle running for his life, which will be the case when he's playing, oh, Florida.

He'll probably still look solid, but it'll be remarkable how much different he and the entire offense will look, compared to how they looked against Charleston Of Troy.

Sam,

ND has thrown more this year because the first three teams they have played have all had sub par pass defenses. Add to that a new OL and RB coach, and I think Weis didn't have a whole lot of confidence in the running game. Now that Allen has had two straight 100+ yard games and is running very hard, I think you will see him and the other backs more against Purdue and Washington while Clausen gets healthy. Losing Floyd will also slow down the passing game, although there is enough recruited talent available for someone to step up and seize a huge roll in this offense. My guess is it will be someone like Sr. Robby Paris to start, but by the middle to end of the year, you will be seeing a lot of Shaq Evans.

Van wrote:Killian, the reason you're confused is you selectively C&P'd the self-serving portion of that thread. You intentionally didn't C&P the part where I said to Lax that what I was referring to regarding the "He's the real deal" comment were those things he did which will translate against any opponent: polished footwork, correct fundamentals, a Pro-style delivery, etc.

There were two parts to that thread/post. One in which you extolled the virture of Barkley and his ability to look like a QB when he threw the ball (delivery, footwork, etc.) and another where you specifically talked about how he looked in that game. Things like:

Van wrote:Barkley just looked fantastic. No fumbles, no picks, no stupid decisions

It was SJSU, how can you come to that conclusion. You know who else looked just like that in his first college start? Ron Powlus, against Northwestern.

Don't talk out of both sides of your mouth, and don't hammer a guy who follows his program and knows much better than you or I, that the current QB is making plays and reads that the former QB couldn't.

Van wrote:I was commenting on how Barkley looks like the real deal, compared to so many horrible QBs I'd seen that same day. The comment wasn't based on his numbers, which weren't anything that spectaular, it was based on the visual affirmation of everything the scouts had been saying about his polished skills.

The kid looked every bit the NFL QB, in terms of his command of the basics of the position. He doesn't still need to learn how to play QB, the way so many other "athlete" type QBs do.

That's what Sam was talking about as well. This:

Sudden Sam wrote: I'm not basing how I feel about McElroy's performance so much on the numbers he's put up against the two weaklings as I am on how he looks out there. He has total command of the team. He knows what he's doing and looks comfortable. His teammates have confidence in him. He has great touch on the ball and is accurate as hell. He started real rough against VaTech, but got shit figured out in the second half.

Sounds an awful lot alike this:

Van wrote:Lax, no doubt about the competition, but my point had to do with the things you could see which are not related to the opponent.

-Barkley's mechanics, and his decision making.

Those mechanics are solid, and they'll be solid regardless of the opponent. The guy is a very polished passer. His footwork is excellent, his hip turn and arm angle are both spot on, and his accuracy is unerring.

You had no idea if his mechanics would be solid against a team with a real pass rush and a real defense. Same with his footwork and arm angle. I think Sam is more apt to know if McElroy is better suited than Wilson, and if McElroy has that "it" that some QB's have and some don't.

Van wrote:Bama's previous QB, Parker, the guy Sam loved to hate? He would've looked every bit as confident, poised and accurate against North Texas as McElroy did, is the point. You would've looked just about as good against them as McElroy did. Of course the kid was accurate. He's a D1 QB who isn't just some "dual threat" runner disguised as a QB. Anybody who can throw at all will be able to throw accurate passes when they have all day to throw to wide open recievers, which is the case for McElroy when playing behind Bama's O-line, at home, against Troy International .

Van wrote:and his accuracy is unerring

So why did you bring up Barkley's accuracy against SJSU?

Van wrote:

He has great touch on the ball and is accurate as hell.

So was VY, in college. It's not difficult to be accurate or have great touch when you can literally sit back and answer fan mail before deciding which of three wide open receivers to throw to lob the ball in the general vicinity of...

I'm not saying McElroy isn't a great passer, with magical touch and uncanny accuracy. I'm saying you can't tell whether he is or not, not from scrimmages where there aren't live rounds being fired, and that's what you're doing. You're going hog-wild over his accuracy and leadership during meaningless scrimmages.

After USC's win over SJSU:

Van wrote:and his accuracy is unerring

Again, I'm confused.

Van wrote:Call me crazy, but I have a suspicion his accuracy, decision making and ability to inspire confidence in his teammates will appear rather different when he's having to squeeze passes into tiny spaces whle running for his life, which will be the case when he's playing, oh, Florida.

He'll probably still look solid, but it'll be remarkable how much different he and the entire offense will look, compared to how they looked against Charleston Of Troy.

Kinda like Barkley against OSU, no? Or say, oh, Cal?

No, probably not at all, since Barkley also displayed all those same attributes in The Shoe, under heavy fire.

Barkley is going to look like a poised and polished QB nearly every time, because he is a poised and polished QB. Short of injury, he's going to be a 1st round pick in the NFL. That isn't just me saying that, that's every scout in the NFL who's commented on the guy. That's everyone connected with USC who's seen a decent number of NFL caliber QBs roll through there.

Taking all those things into consideration, yeah, one could see against SJ St that the guy really is the real deal. Sure, he will make mistakes, and he'll need to get better at everything, but the basic building blocks were clearly already in place, and those things aren't going away just because the opponents change.

So the basic building blocks aren't there for McElroy?

To the degree that they are with Barkley? By all accounts, no, they aren't; at least not to the same degree...and a scrimmage against North Texas wouldn't help us to learn much about him anyway.

What Sam was referring to was leadership, and confidence from his teammates, and being accurate. Those things cannot be divined in a game against North Texas, or Florida A&M Of Sparta.

I pretty much confined my comments about Barkley to those things which will translate regardless of the opponent: his polished mechanics, and his ability to quickly absorb what the coaches tell him. The only exception would be accuracy, and that's a reflection of the overwhelming consensus about the guy saying he's a phenomenally sound passer, which makes him unusually accurate.

Even those who always want to mention the picks he threw in HS don't attribute it to a lack of throwing accuracy.

The bottom line is the kid is supposed to be well ahead of some major league QBs who preceded him there at USC, and that's according to the people who really know. Against SJ State, and then against OSU, those things were clearly on display.

Since when was throwing against Va Tech's defense considered a "scrimmage?" That's real deal college football.

Van wrote:The bottom line is the kid is supposed to be well ahead of some major league QBs who preceded him there at USC, and that's according to the people who really know. Against SJ State, and then against OSU, those things were clearly on display.

He was 15/31 against OSU with 0 TD's and a pick. Yes, he had an excellent final drive. In that drive he completed a 20+ yard pass to McKnight where McKnight did most of the work, a 20+ yard pass to a guy who's name I forget where the receiver had to slow down, preventing more yardage, and a 8 yard pass on 3rd and 9 to Damien Williams. The rushing attack did as much on that drive as Barkley.

Barkley may be the second coming of Christ, but he hasn't done anything during game time to prove it.

Most important stat:

McElroy - 0 losses
Clausen - 1 loss

Yes, it wasn't his fault but it's still a loss.

Sudden Sam wrote:http://espn.go.com/college-football/sta ... 9/group/80

Max Hall has 10 INTs?

"He throws a lot, so he gets picked off a lot."

-Patrick Ewing