Putting a second back on the clock

[JayDuck]

I'm not just saying this because I wanted Nebraska to win. I've seen it multiple times, the last couple years in meaningfull, and meaningless games. And its one of the things that I really don't think should be allowed.

The fact is, there is a human element to keeping time. Its not something that's ever been exactly precise, and while perhaps you can look at the tape to see 1 second still on the clock when the ball hits, putting the time back seems like one of those things that, while "technically" correct goes against the spirit of the rules, IMO.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but where in the rules does it say that time stops on the ball hitting the ground out of bounds. Correct me if I'm wrong here, refs, but isn't the rule that the ball hits the ground, refs blow the whistle, then time stops?

But, the biggest problem that I have with doing this is that you still aren't getting an accurate assesement of how much "true time" is left on the clock. Unless you do this for every play of the game, the time is not precise. So, who's to say that one second at the end of the game would, or should still be there, if time wasn't stopped exactly at the right point on some random 2nd down in the 3rd quarter? Or the previous play? or the play before that?

We probably lose a minute or 2, of precision, during the course of a game based on the human element of keeping time. Deciding to change it only at the very end is a "game-breaker", in my opinion. If one team gets a second back at the end, why can't my team get a second back that it missed in the 2nd quarter?

[Killian]

You see this all the time. Refs will get on their mic and say "Please reset the game clock to x:xx."

[Harvdog]

The fact is, there is a human element to keeping time. Its not something that's ever been exactly precise, and while perhaps you can look at the tape to see 1 second still on the clock when the ball hits, putting the time back seems like one of those things that, while "technically" correct goes against the spirit of the rules, IMO.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but where in the rules does it say that time stops on the ball hitting the ground out of bounds. Correct me if I'm wrong here, refs, but isn't the rule that the ball hits the ground, refs blow the whistle, then time stops?

But, the biggest problem that I have with doing this is that you still aren't getting an accurate assesement of how much "true time" is left on the clock. Unless you do this for every play of the game, the time is not precise. So, who's to say that one second at the end of the game would, or should still be there, if time wasn't stopped exactly at the right point on some random 2nd down in the 3rd quarter? Or the previous play? or the play before that?

We probably lose a minute or 2, of precision, during the course of a game based on the human element of keeping time. Deciding to change it only at the very end is a "game-breaker", in my opinion. If one team gets a second back at the end, why can't my team get a second back that it missed in the 2nd quarter?

WIth that theory, the Pilots from Northwest should get their jobs back. I have always felt that there is a human element to flying in a plane. If the pilots are watching porn on their laptops and miss their window to land by 200 miles because they overshot their window and cause all kinds of logistical problems, so be it.

It was the right call. If you are going to bitch about this then all replay needs to go away.

[JayDuck]

But Mace, as Killian pointed out, when they do detect a variance, the officials often have the clock operator adjust the time remaining.

Yes, the refs have the right to correct clock mistakes, and they do. But, you are missing the point, because that's not what happens in these cases.

This is not a clock mistake, its the normal way a play is stopped after a dead ball. Ref singals dead-play, clock operator stops clock. That's the normal progression. The ref that signaled incomplete pass was fine with the way the clock stopped, on the field at that time. He would have let the game end right there.

In these situations, the call is coming from elsewhere, either whining from a coach or players, or somebody in a booth somewhere that decides the game shouldn't be over.

That's bullshit. Unless you are going to do that every time there's a dead ball, the refs on the field decide when the play ends and singal it to the clock operator. It happens all game long the same way it happens on that play. The refs only reset the clock if there's a mistake, like the clock running while a team is lined up after an incomplete pass, or if a play was blown dead but nobody heard the whistle, etc.

[JayDuck]

I'm also going to go ahead and say you're full of shit about "losing two minutes of precision" during a game.

Well, then you are a fucktard. If you claim that its the right call that the second be put on in a case like this, then you are admitting to there being a good 2 minutes of precision lost because THAT'S HOW THE CLOCK IS STOPPED ON EVERY FUCKING INCOMPLETE PASS, OR RUN OUT OF BOUNDS, IN THE GAME. So, unless they are putting a second back on the clock after every one of these plays, you do the fucking math dipshit.

[JayDuck]

I'm also going to go ahead and say you're full of shit about "losing two minutes of precision" during a game.

Well, then you are a fucktard.

I'm not the one talking out my ass here, jerkoff. It's your claim. Back it up or shut your cock polisher.

"Back it up"? Are you seriously this dumb, or do you honestly not watch any football? You really need me to give you a link to some youtube highlights of any fucking college game ever played, to see that the clock doesn't stop at the precise moment a ball is dropped, or a player runs out of bounds?

seriously?

I typed "college football highlights" into youtube and the first game that pops up is Washington Notre Dame. The first play shown, after the kick off is a washington fumble. Ref singals play over at 14:11. Clock is stopped at 14:09

2nd play shown is Locker on a QB dive into the endzone. Locker crosses the plane at 10:11. Clock is stopped at 10:10.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sxKLrmt6fQ



now go fuck yourself.

[JayDuck]

"Back it up"?

Yes, back it up. The fumble was overturned. Was the clock adjusted? On the touchdown, where was signal given. And, btw, what the fuck does any of this have to do with the clock still running when the ball is clearly laying on the ground after an incomplete pass.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3SSFRwT5fo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuXvxdHk2pM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wZoB5gjFvY

I challenge you to even find a highlight of an incomplete pass that the clock is stopped precisely on the ball hitting the ground.

[JayDuck]

Was the correct call made.

Yes or no?

The 2 ways I would answer that are as follows.

1.
The refs and play-clock operator made the correct call on the field in the first place, treating the play as they treated every other incomplete pass. Changing it was the wrong call.

or 2.

No.
They only put 1 second back on the clock.
2 minutes should have been put back on the clock to correct the way they'd called the game up until that point.

Consistency in applying the rules is more important than what those rules are.

[JayDuck]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3SSFRwT5fo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuXvxdHk2pM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wZoB5gjFvY

[indyfrisco]

Everything at the end of the game is scrutinized more than the rest of the game. Everything that can change the outcome of the game if right or wrong gets scrutinized. On a 1st and 10 in the 1st qtr with the score tied 0-0, the RB runs into the line for a 3 yard gain. Official spots the ball about half a yard long of where the ball was when his knee actually hits the ground. This is not reviewed or overturned and they line up for 2nd down.

Now, fast forward to the 4th quarter at the end of the game. Let's say a RB by the name of Wendale Light runs for it on 4th and 1 and gets a favorable 1st down spot. The booth reviews it and determines the official spotted the ball a half yard long. They respot the ball, measure again and get the call right. Game over.

Are you telling us that you think that Wendale Light should have been given the last half yard because at some point earlier in the game he was given the yard on a 1st and 10 when the score was 0-0 in the 1st quarter? If yes, then you are advocating getting rid of replay altogether which is a completely different discussion.

Cut with the disclaimer that your wanting t.u. to lose had nothing to do with your opinion on the matter. I believe the rule in the book states that the clock is to be stopped when the football hits any object out of bounds whether it is a person, the ground or a bench. The review was warranted. The correct call was made. And I was screaming "HOOK MOTHERFUCKER HOOK!" to the ball after it was kicked. I wanted t.u. to lose too, but not by getting jobbed by the clock operator.

[JayDuck]

Cut with the disclaimer that your wanting t.u. to lose had nothing to do with your opinion on the matter. I believe the rule in the book states that the clock is to be stopped when the football hits any object out of bounds whether it is a person, the ground or a bench. The review was warranted. The correct call was made. And I was screaming "HOOK MOTHERFUCKER HOOK!" to the ball after it was kicked. I wanted t.u. to lose too, but not by getting jobbed by the clock operator.

Honestly, it doesn't. This is something that I have talked about on numerous occassions with people. Though, I should point out that I'm somebody that is opposed to replay in the first place. And for similar reasons. It slows the game down way too much. Replay fucks things up nearly as often as the refs do anyway. Since officiating is never going to be perfect, lets just live with the fact that human error is a part of the game.

You mentioned in your post that a meaningless spot in the 1st quarter shouldn't matter as much as one in the final seconds, and while that's true to some extent, then why the fuck do I have to see a game delayed for 5 minutes, every fucking week with some meaningless review of a touchdown in the 1st quarter in a game? I mean how many times do you see somebody break a long TD run, or pass that may, or may not, go out of bounds at the half-foot line? And they spend 5 minutes reviewing to see if its a TD, or a 1st and goal from the half-foot line thats going to be a TD on the next play anyway? Who fucking cares?

I hate replay in general. I don't give a fuck about Nebraska and while I halfheartedly was rooting for the upset, that's hardly why I don't like that type of overturn.

And for your last line, if the game ended on that play, Texas wouldn't have lost because they got screwed. They would have lost from the worst clock management that I've ever seen. Their own fucking stupidity and would have nothing else to blame it on. And yes, watching it in slow motion, you can see still 1 second on the clock when the ball hits the ground (though the clock had been on the "1" for awhile, so it was probably more like 0.5 seconds left). It was a bang-bang play, not a jobbing by the operator. It was the operator doing their job the same way they always do.

If you let the clock wind down and then run that play, you've no right to bitch about maybe a half-second that might be left. McCoy gets a little more air under the ball and there's no question. They clearly weren't thinking about the clock while running that play.

[Van]

Forgive me, and I have nothing against JayDuck, but mvscal doing his usual nic smack by changing JayDuck into GayFuck made me laugh out loud, the first time I realized what I was seeing.

[H4ever]

As a Nebraska fan....I want to say the call was bullshit and the game should have been over. But, were the shoe on the other foot, I would have wanted that second back, too.

The replay gave Texas the game, though Nebraska benefitted from it on a crucial 4th and 1 play that was spotted incorrectly and fixed after "further review"

Bottom line is the Tejas kicker made a clutch kick with everything on the line. An opportunity he should have never gotten had the NU kicker kept it in bounds and the horsecollar never happed. Texas got 30 yards on the drive thanks to dipshit plays. Mental mistakes cost us the V-tech game in the waning moments, too.

I just wish McCoy hadn't been so shell-shocked. Dude was dumping the ball way too early from about halfway through the 1st qtr after he realized his boys upfront were getting whooped. Had he held it a split second...game over....no review.

[Left Seater]

Having run the clock myself many times at the college level I can share how we are instructed to stop the clock.

On a play near the sideline I would watch the covering official, ie the official responsible for forward progress, when he waives his arms over his head I stop the clock.

On a running play near the sideline and clearly beyond the line to gain for a first down, I would stop the clock at the covering officials first movement of his arm. Note: The covering official on a first down run/catch in which the ball carrier is down inbounds will first give the wind the clock signal and then the stop the clock signal. This is to indicate to all officials the ball became dead in the field of play. The clock operator though is stopping the clock on the wind the clock signal.

On a Touchdown play I would stop the clock when the first TD signal was given.

On an pass play I would follow the flight of the ball. If the ball was clearly caught I then treat it as a running play as above. If it was clearly incomplete I stop the clock when the ball hits the ground. On a play that I can't tell, I wait for a signal from the covering official. Either the incomplete signal has me stop the clock or he waives his hands over his head (stop) or he marks forward progress and clock keeps running.

So to answer Jay's original question the proper decision was made. The clock operator doesn't wait for an incomplete signal nor a whistle. Also for what it is worth the whistle really means nothing. It is an attention getter. Plays don't end always end because of a whistle. Plays end when the ball becomes dead, ie contact with the ground, incomplete pass, crossing the sideline or endline or when an official blows his whistle. Just because a whistle doesn't sound, doesn't mean you can hit someone out of bounds. Also, the clock is stopped the same way the whole time during the game. There is no way in the course of a game 2 mins go away.


As for other discussions in this thread there is one that really bothers me and it will be interesting to see if this crew is calling a bowl game this season or if this bites them in the ass.

The Nebraska 4th and 1 overturn has been mentioned. What hasn't been mentioned was that in the field level replay that we only see once the Line Judge comes running in marking the spot with his hand raised over his head prior to the second effort lunge forward. This means that he has blown his whistle and by rule the play is dead.

Hold that thought while I bring up another play. The Nebraska kickoff where the Texas return man slips at the 1 but clearly doesn't have control of the ball. On this play the whistle blows and the official stopped the clock despite the ball being loose. The Referee then announces that that play isn't rewiewable becasue the whistle sounded. Ok, if that is the case, then why is the 4th down play reviewable? Either they both are or neither are, but not one over the other.

I have discussed this with many different crews and it is going around on officials message boards. Thoughts are this will cost this crew their bowl shot.