T1B

Dick Butkus
Don Hutson
Joe Montana
Walter Payton
Jerry Rice





Discuss

In order....


1. Sammy Baugh
2. Jerry Rice
3. Walter Payton
4. John Elway
5. Dick Butkis

1. Sammy Baugh
2. Jim Brown
3. Walter Payton
4. Joe Greene
5. John Hannah

Jim Brown
Lawrence Taylor
Walter Payton
Jerry Rice
Peyton Manning

1. Sammy Baugh
2. John Elway
3. Walter Payton
4. Dick Butkis
5. Jerry Rice

Honorable Mention:
Jim Brown
Barry Sanders
Peyton Manning
Joe Greene
Reggie White


Simply put, Sammy Baugh revolutionized the game with his ability to pass the ball downfield. Not only that, but dude was a helluva a punter and DB. He was way ahead of his time.

Other than that, it's really difficult to make a top five.

Is it Elway's 2-3 record in the Big One that has you people slobbering him, or his ability to choke away any big game at any given moment?

I suppose you've fallen for his smoke and mirrors act, where he consistantly pointed fingers at his teammates for his own inability to deliver the ball in big moments.

In all those years, Elway NEVER won a head-to-head matchup with the greatest player of all time -- Joe Montana.

Montana
Jim Brown
Jerry Rice
Ronnie Lott
Bo Jackson (might be #1, but gets docked for the limited resume')


Daryl Green didn't exactly suck, either, and LT was no slouch.

poptart wrote:
Dick Butkus Bronko Nagurski
Don Hutson
Joe Montana Slingin' Sammy Baugh
Walter Payton Harold "Red" Grange
Jerry Rice Jim Thorpe

Fixed. Leather helmets only for you...

Dinsdale wrote:Is it Elway's 2-3 record in the Big One that has you people slobbering him

If I'm slobbering over anything on his resume, it's the fact that he carried three mediocre teams to Super Bowls early on. That to me is more impressive than his back-to-back titles which were actually talented squads.

Not only did dude have nothing to throw to, but he had NOBODY in the backfield. I mean, the Steve Sewell sweep fooled me in Tecmo Super Bowl, but in real life Elway had garbage on offense, and a very average defense helping out. Marino fans bitch about his lack of running game, but at least he had receivers. And put Elway on those Bills teams from 1988-1994, which were stacked on both sides of the ball, and he's cashing in a couple titles. No way he chokes away all of those opportunities with that much talent like Kelly did. You can't dispute that. I will RACK Montana though for leading a shit Chiefs team to a title game when he was about 38 years old.

DamnTheCowboys wrote: Not only did dude have nothing to throw to, but he had NOBODY in the backfield.

Sammy Winder was a two time Probowler, and ran for 1,200 yards in '84.

Vance Johnson and Mark Jackson were "nothing" enough to each last in the league eight seasons. Clarence Kay and Orson Mobley were decent TEs.

No sale.

Degenerate wrote:Vance Johnson and Mark Jackson were "nothing" enough to each last in the league eight seasons.

No sale.

Agreed... you usually don't get nicknames like the "Three Amigos" because you suck.

Dinsdale wrote:Is it Elway's 2-3 record in the Big One that has you people slobbering him, or his ability to choke away any big game at any given moment?

Defense and no receivers might have something to do with it.

A 55-10 drubbing from the Niners was in no way Elway's fault. Yeah, he could've scored more points, but the Dungver defense was simply overmatched.

Doug Williams going off for 35 in the second quarter is not Elway's fault either.

Degenerate wrote:

DamnTheCowboys wrote: Not only did dude have nothing to throw to, but he had NOBODY in the backfield.

Sammy Winder was a two time Probowler, and ran for 1,200 yards in '84.

Vance Johnson and Mark Jackson were "nothing" enough to each last in the league eight seasons. Clarence Kay and Orson Mobley were decent TEs.

No sale.

Winder had a sparkling 3.6 yards per rush average for his career, and outside of that 1,153 yard season in '84, he never gained even 800 yards in a season. Nice turd-polishing attempt, though. Kind of like the "three Amigos" gloss that the Denver media or whoever came up with that dropped on that mediocre bunch. In those three Super Bowl seasons, Jackson's reception totals were 38, 26, and 28. Vance Johnson's totals were 31, 42, and 76. He was over 1,000 yards just one season in his career. He averaged 570 yards receiving per year.

Nattiel had one 70 yard touchdown in the Super Bowl his rookie season and then sucked ass from there. Kay was average at best, with a career high of 36 catches and spent most of his time beating women as opposed to being a security blanket for Horse Face.

The "Three Amigos" were barely anything to fear. At least the "Marks Brothers" and "The Posse" earned nicknames, ucant. Next Degenerate will tell me that Melvin Bratton was a dynamic, game-changer year in and year out.

Jim Brown
Walter Payton (L.T. flying up the charts)
Jerry Rice
Dick Butkus (Deacon Jones, Joe Greene HM)
Otto Graham

Jim Brown
Joe Montana
Jerry Rice
Walter Payton
John Unitas

Daryle Lamonica
Ken Stabler
Jack Tatum
Fred Biletnikoff
Jim Otto
Ted Hendricks
Ray Guy

Ok, that's seven but I couldn't narrow it down. I could add a few more, though.

Screw_Michigan wrote:Brian Dawkins
Randall Cunningham

No Steve Tasker?

Doug Flutie?

Montana
Rice
Brown
Taylor
Payton

Some thoughts:

Jim Brown's name always gets put on this kind of short list and I don't have a problem with it, but in my mind, Payton is more deserving.
Brown was an ultimate stud, no doubt, but he did QUIT when he had at least 3 or 4 more good years in the tank.
He played just 110 games to Payton's 190.
Payton is the finest all around RB ever, imo.
Durable, tough, strong, fast enough, quick, punishing, terrific receiver, GREAT blocker, great teammate.
He was the complete package.

Elway doesn't belong on the list.
Hell, Peyton Manning is better than Elway, as was Fran Tarkenton, and they don't belong on the list.
Elway = great player, but not top 5 all time worthy.

If you want to put an old-timer in the top 5, S. Baugh is a worthy choice.
I prefer D. Hutson, from the same era, because he DOMINATED his position like none other - and some of his significant records are still in place today, 60-some years after his retirement.
And he also, like Baugh, played other positions on the field.

Dick Butkus is the most fearsome defensive player ever.
A literal football animal.
Joe Greene?
No.
Great player, but was a boy compared to D. Butkus.

I have Randall Cunningham #6 all-time, at the top of my honorable mention list, which would be far too lengthy to get into.

poptart wrote:I have Randall Cunningham #6 all-time

Has anyone ever seen Cunningham and Donovan McNabb in the same place?

Same guy -- neither one ever saw a big game they couldn't flush down the toilet.

Randall was always really fun to watch, much like Barry Sanders. And much like Sanders, that doesn't convert to "all time great."

poptart wrote:Dick Butkus is the most fearsome defensive player ever.
A literal football animal.
Joe Greene?
No.
Great player, but was a boy compared to D. Butkus.

How many titles did the Bears win with Butkus? Shit, how many times did they even make the playoffs? Christ, the Bears only had one winning SEASON with Butkus on board. Yea sure, he had some great highlights. But using that logic, Dominique Wilkins was better than MJ.

Meanwhile, Joe Greene was the cornerstone of the greatest franchise revival in the history of football, 10 time Pro Bowl, 5 time first team All Pro and 4 time Super Bowl Champion. The Steelers were nothing before he arrived. Since he came to town, they have been one of the class franchises in the league.

BSmack wrote:

poptart wrote:Dick Butkus is the most fearsome defensive player ever.
A literal football animal.
Joe Greene?
No.
Great player, but was a boy compared to D. Butkus.

How many titles did the Bears win with Butkus? Shit, how many times did they even make the playoffs? Christ, the Bears only had one winning SEASON with Butkus on board. Yea sure, he had some great highlights. But using that logic, Dominique Wilkins was better than MJ.

Meanwhile, Joe Greene was the cornerstone of the greatest franchise revival in the history of football, 10 time Pro Bowl, 5 time first team All Pro and 4 time Super Bowl Champion. The Steelers were nothing before he arrived. Since he came to town, they have been one of the MOST ROIDED franchises in the league.

FTFY

BSmack wrote:Meanwhile, Joe Greene was the cornerstone of the greatest franchise revival in the history of football, 10 time Pro Bowl, 5 time first team All Pro and 4 time Super Bowl Champion. The Steelers were nothing before he arrived. Since he came to town, they have been one of the class franchises in the league.

I think Jack Lambert was every bit the player that Greene was... 9 straight Pro Bowls. 6 time All Pro. Led the team in tackles from 1974-1983. Furthermore, they didn't start winning Super Bowls until the year Lambert arrived (5 years after Greene, right?) You dig?

Or. Perhaps it was just a great defense... great team.

poptart wrote:Some thoughts:
Jim Brown's name always gets put on this kind of short list and I don't have a problem with it, but in my mind, Payton is more deserving.
Brown was an ultimate stud, no doubt, but he did QUIT when he had at least 3 or 4 more good years in the tank.

There's a not so subtle difference between the Top 5 players of all time and Top 5 careers of all time. Brown's numbers, and the years that elapsed before anyone could approach what he had done, speak for themselves.

To assign the word quit to Brown, who never missed a game, who played the entire 1963 season with a severely sprained wrist, who never even wore freaking hip pads... well, i'm not sure what point you're trying to make. The guy got bored with football and left.

For that same reason, although I wouldn't put Bo Jackson on the list as Dins did, I wouldn't argue with it either.

I give you props for including Hutson but the most that people really know about him is his statistical dominance and not his visual dominance. Film on the guy is apparently very hard to come by as most of it is in poor condition. Although i have read the opinions of those who have been fortunate enough to check it out and say that he indeed looked like he was a playing a different game than everyone else.

Degenerate wrote:Film on the guy is apparently very hard to come by as most of it is in poor condition. Although i have read the opinions of those who have been fortunate enough to check it out and say that he indeed looked like he was a playing a different game than everyone else.

'tart was there... I trust his takes. he doesn't leave the rice hut sans his leather helmet.

How many titles did the Browns win with Otto Graham? Did ya say 10 out of 10? Bingo

Degenerate wrote:There's a not so subtle difference between the Top 5 players of all time and Top 5 careers of all time.

This is true and it's an interesting point.

Bo Jackson averaged 5.4 yds per carry.
He didn't have the career, but one could make a case for him being one of the top players of all-time

Gale Sayers - 5.0 per carry.

Randy Moss?
Won't have the career that Jerry Rice had, but has been a more spectacular player.

Then again, Moss doesn't block and he often dogs it when his number isn't being called.

Scratch that POS.

haha

poptart wrote:Randy Moss?
Won't have the career that Jerry Rice had, but has been a more spectacular player.

Then again, Moss doesn't block and he often dogs it when his number isn't being called.

I don't know about the blocking thing (and I know you're half-joking anways), but I can tell you it doesn't seem he works all that hard to "get open." Brady has missed him numerous times this year when he's been open deep, but he sorta disappears on short and medium range routes.